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Thread for 'Alt-Facts'

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Thread for 'Alt-Facts'

Post by Carpet_pissr » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:12 pm

Now that we are in the age of Trump, where obvious lies are apparently going to be the norm, I thought I would keep a running list, to keep the fires of hate burning. :P

If you haven't seen the disgraceful exchange where KellyAnn Conway references "alternative facts" regarding the number of people that showed up at the inauguration, I suggest you do so. Chuck Todd, a Republican talking head who was absolutely GIDDY election night as he realized Trump was going to win, gave it to her, and for that I salute him at least.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... facts.html

The scary thing is, she threatens him with "access" if he "continues to disparage the press secretary in that way. To anyone that voted for this clown, I say "kiss my ass".

So:

1. Trump's inauguration drew the largest inauguration crowd in history
2. Most American's don't care about Trump's tax returns
3. There has been a dramatic expansion of the federal workforce in recent years
4. Trump lost the popular vote because millions of unauthorized immigrants illegally voted for Clinton
5. Won the electoral college votes by a "massive landslide victory"
Last edited by Carpet_pissr on Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:58 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Skinypupy » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:22 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:Chuck Todd, a Republican talking head who was absolutely GIDDY election night as he realized Trump was going to win, gave it to her, and for that I salute him at least.
Wait...what?
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Grifman » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:25 pm

Chris Wallace of FOX also went after Priebus on this:

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/w ... wd-n710466
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by pr0ner » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:40 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:Chuck Todd, a Republican talking head who was absolutely GIDDY election night as he realized Trump was going to win, gave it to her, and for that I salute him at least.
Wait...what?
I guess Carpet_pissr had to start a threat about alternative facts with an alternative fact!
Hodor.

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:44 pm

Yeah - that one's a head scratcher. Maybe Carpet_pissr is just trying to keep us on our toes; alternative facts could be anywhere!

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Isgrimnur » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Todd was excited.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by tgb » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:19 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:Chuck Todd, [insert alternative fact here], gave it to her, and for that I salute him at least.
He could have been stronger. He should have called them lies instead of "falsehoods", which is way too polite in dealing with Blondie Goebbels
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by geezer » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:19 pm

2: Trump now admits that's he won't release tax returns. Conway says it's because "people don't care." (74% of people in WAPO /ABC poll DO care.)

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by tgb » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:20 pm

I hope you guys realize that Rip is going to pwn this thread.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Max Peck » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:46 pm

geezer wrote:2: Trump now admits that's he won't release tax returns. Conway says it's because "people don't care." (74% of people in WAPO /ABC poll DO care.)
Doubleplus altfact: Failing fake news pushers WaPo/ABC publish phony polls. Realmericans know better.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Rip » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:04 pm

Stocks soared higher Friday on enthusiasm over Trump inauguration.

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Defiant » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:11 pm


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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by hepcat » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:21 pm

Rip wrote:Stocks soared higher Friday on enthusiasm over Trump inauguration.
But when it falls, will you bring that up too?
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by RunningMn9 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:27 pm

+0.48% is soaring? :)
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Rip » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:34 pm

hepcat wrote:
Rip wrote:Stocks soared higher Friday on enthusiasm over Trump inauguration.
But when it falls, will you bring that up too?
Sure, but when it does it will be because of something the Democrats did.

:dance:

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Rip » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:37 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:+0.48% is soaring? :)
Yep, through the stratosphere.

https://vimeo.com/103908325

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Holman » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:41 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:+0.48% is soaring? :)
Alternative soaring.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Chaz » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:03 pm

Well, I'm not surprised that the stock market is up, since Trump is mostly going to be working for investors.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Carpet_pissr » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:13 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:Chuck Todd, a Republican talking head who was absolutely GIDDY election night as he realized Trump was going to win, gave it to her, and for that I salute him at least.
Wait...what?
I have watched Chuck Todd for years (not much in the past several though), and always thought he was pretty unbiased about his leanings, but after the election results were mostly over (after the video that Izzy posted), he did a behind the desk deal with a few other people and he was definitely showing his colors. And it wasn't excitement about a crazy election night because he's a numbers geek (which he is).

I was watching the whole thing live, and I stand by my word "giddy" about the Trump win. As always, I am completely open to alternative facts about his position, however. :P As long as you can back up your position with feelings or emotion, that is. Actual facts are right out.

I don't really care what his political leanings are, but it was nice to see someone (even some at Fox News!) at least raise some eyebrows at the BS that the head douche is trying to throw out now that he is officially (gulp) President. Oh God that hurt to write.

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Carpet_pissr » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:15 pm

geezer wrote:2: Trump now admits that's he won't release tax returns. Conway says it's because "people don't care." (74% of people in WAPO /ABC poll DO care.)
Oooh, nice one! I'm adding that to the list!

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Sudy » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:24 pm

I'm ardently anti-Trump and entrenched in the left on the majority of topics, but I'm concerned the left is blowing this out of proportion in a way that lends itself to needless divisiveness.

"Alternative facts" is a marvelously Orwellian soundbite when taken to mean "different truths". But without going back and watching the interview again, I feel that it was meant more as a synonym for "counterpoints". The majority of which, yes, have been determined to be false in this case. But that doesn't change the way in which the vocabulary was most likely intended.

It's scummy enough to defend ignoring relevant questions and spreading falsehoods, certainly. (I'm sure there's a contingent that does believe in the concept of alternative facts in the Orwellian sense. And, it was a tremendous flub for Conway to use a term that could be construed that way.) But I feel this has become an illegitimate liberal call to arms that will only serve to further polarize sensible people.

This administration deserves to be skewered. But it's extremely important to be on solid footing when doing so.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by tgb » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:28 pm

It occurs to me (and I hate myself for posting this) but the Cheeto Bandito may be smarter than we give him credit for. After all, what's the biggest story in the media right now?
Spoiler:
It ain't the demonstrations yesterday.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Sudy » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:31 pm

tgb wrote:It occurs to me (and I hate myself for posting this) but the Cheeto Bandito may be smarter than we give him credit for. After all, what's the biggest story in the media right now?
Spoiler:
It ain't the demonstrations yesterday.
I like Nerdwriter's breakdown on that one. Even if Trump isn't conscious of it, someone in his cadre is, and exploits it for all it's worth. Something directly out of the propagandist's handbook, to be sure.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Blackhawk » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:32 pm

You're going to need a bigger thread.
[This space left intentionally blank.]

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Carpet_pissr » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:36 pm

Sudy Nym wrote:I'm ardently anti-Trump and entrenched in the left on the majority of topics, but I'm concerned the left is blowing this out of proportion in a way that lends itself to needless divisiveness.

"Alternative facts" is a marvelously Orwellian soundbite when taken to mean "different truths". But without going back and watching the interview again, I feel that it was meant more as a synonym for "counterpoints". The majority of which, yes, have been determined to be false in this case. But that doesn't change the way in which the vocabulary was most likely intended.

It's scummy enough to defend ignoring relevant questions and spreading falsehoods, certainly. (I'm sure there's a contingent that does believe in the concept of alternative facts in the Orwellian sense. And, it was a tremendous flub for Conway to use a term that could be construed that way.) But I feel this has become an illegitimate liberal call to arms that will only serve to further polarize sensible people.

This administration deserves to be skewered. But it's extremely important to be on solid footing when doing so.
I watched the whole interview, and again stand by my assertion that it's terrible, was meant the way it came across and most importantly, needs to be called out and mocked mercilessly, whether it does any actual good or no. Especially considering the history and demeanor of previous tweets, communiques, speeches, etc by Trump and his minions. If the comment was made in a vacuum, fine, a gaffe, but you have to use context, and we have plenty to back up that she meant exactly what she said.

Hell, there are at least 3 or 4 quotes where Il Douche himself or someone high in his circle has stated outright or strongly implied that facts are irrelevant. Please don't make me find them, but I will if you insist.

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Sudy » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:45 pm

No, it's OK. I just don't find this specific instance to be the soundest footing on which to base a revolution. Cumulatively, sure. I guess if it continues to energize opposition and dissent it's not a bad thing. But at this point it's people on the other side who are in the direst need of convincing, and this kind of pile-on has the tendency to just drive them further away.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Defiant » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:24 pm

This thread:

Image

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by LordMortis » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:43 pm

Sudy Nym wrote:I'm ardently anti-Trump and entrenched in the left on the majority of topics, but I'm concerned the left is blowing this out of proportion in a way that lends itself to needless divisiveness.

"Alternative facts" is a marvelously Orwellian soundbite when taken to mean "different truths". But without going back and watching the interview again, I feel that it was meant more as a synonym for "counterpoints". The majority of which, yes, have been determined to be false in this case. But that doesn't change the way in which the vocabulary was most likely intended.

It's scummy enough to defend ignoring relevant questions and spreading falsehoods, certainly. (I'm sure there's a contingent that does believe in the concept of alternative facts in the Orwellian sense. And, it was a tremendous flub for Conway to use a term that could be construed that way.) But I feel this has become an illegitimate liberal call to arms that will only serve to further polarize sensible people.

This administration deserves to be skewered. But it's extremely important to be on solid footing when doing so.
I'm from the other perspective. I want things to be positive. I want to find excuses to give the administration the benefit of the doubt, but "alternative facts" seemed like a way to justify a flat out lie, a way to push cognitive dissonance that the administration may do no wrong by virtue of being the administration.
I just don't find this specific instance to be the soundest footing on which to base a revolution. Cumulatively, sure. I guess if it continues to energize opposition and dissent it's not a bad thing. But at this point it's people on the other side who are in the direst need of convincing, and this kind of pile-on has the tendency to just drive them further away.
Form me it's another reason be vigilant not the cause for revolution.

I concur with the weighing what to be OUTRAGED about. It's not OUTRAGE worthy but it is something to make you say "back up the bus".

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Combustible Lemur » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:45 pm

Sudy Nym wrote:No, it's OK. I just don't find this specific instance to be the soundest footing on which to base a revolution. Cumulatively, sure. I guess if it continues to energize opposition and dissent it's not a bad thing. But at this point it's people on the other side who are in the direst need of convincing, and this kind of pile-on has the tendency to just drive them further away.
The problem is, a year ago you might have been correct, but it is an open and admitted coherent strategy now. It's been used since time immemorium.
In the past it was hidden: drugs, civil rights, tobacco, black lung disease, car pollution, toxic dumping, aids, Iraq.....

But now with the omnipresence of Internet search there's no hiding. So instead of those( In the know) banking on people not being able to spend massive resources researching, they are banking on the fact that people are just gullible. And with centrists, feeling open blatant lying is anathema to a normal person, we're left with journalists couching their incredulity with" well, that is an alleged falsehood" rather than "get the fuck off my screen until you can actually say something that isn't demonstrably false." Because we're stuck with the idea that the downlow lying for public good somehow applies in the modern tweet era. And those in power figured out a long time ago that they can rely on the decency of others to spread propoganda.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by hepcat » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:52 pm

Oh Good Lord, I hadn't come across this earlier, but apparently Trump is trying to say his very presence can control the weather.
Mr. Trump said that though he had been “hit by a couple of drops” of rain as he began his address on Inauguration Day, the sky soon cleared. “And the truth is, it stopped immediately, and then became sunny,” he said. “And I walked off, and it poured after I left. It poured.”
All of this is easily disproven by watching the video of the event.

:lol:

:?

:cry:
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Rip » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:03 pm

hepcat wrote:Oh Good Lord, I hadn't come across this earlier, but apparently Trump is trying to say his very presence can control the weather.
Mr. Trump said that though he had been “hit by a couple of drops” of rain as he began his address on Inauguration Day, the sky soon cleared. “And the truth is, it stopped immediately, and then became sunny,” he said. “And I walked off, and it poured after I left. It poured.”
All of this is easily disproven by watching the video of the event.

:lol:

:?

:cry:
No he implied god controlled, he is only god's muse.

:ninja:

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by hepcat » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:28 pm

I think you mean representative. I doubt Trump's face inspires God to create.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Holman » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:58 pm

It's just like the miracle of the loaves and fishes, except he turns 250k into 1.5 million.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by hepcat » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:00 pm

:lol:
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Zarathud » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:01 pm

Rip wrote:No he implied god controlled, he is only god's muse.

:ninja:
Trump should stop pissing off God for those living in Georgia, Alabama and Florida. The coasts are about to get hit by major storms, too.

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Kraken » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:22 pm

Chaz wrote:Well, I'm not surprised that the stock market is up, since Trump is mostly going to be working for investors.
It's a safe bet that rich people are going to get fabulously richer -- but that's a pretty safe bet under any administration. Fidelity tells me that my IRA went up 9% last year. Thanks, Obama! Beat that, Trump!
Sudy Nym wrote: But I feel this has become an illegitimate liberal call to arms that will only serve to further polarize sensible people.

This administration deserves to be skewered. But it's extremely important to be on solid footing when doing so.
One journalist's opinion
Ari Fleischer, a former George W. Bush press secretary, saw Saturday’s bizarre session for what it was.

“This is called a statement you’re told to make by the President. And you know the President is watching,” Fleischer wrote. (MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski pegged it as “Sean Spicer’s first hostage video.”)

...

White House press briefings are “access journalism,” in which official statements — achieved by closeness to the source — are taken at face value and breathlessly reported as news. And that is over. Dead.

Spicer’s statement should be seen for what it is: Remarks made over the casket at the funeral of access journalism.
Trump has put the Washington press corps on notice that they will be given nothing of substance going forward. This WH will not merely try to put a favorable spin on news -- this is the WH making up its own alternative news.

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:02 pm

NYT has a small list.

Some more innaugeration gems:
Public transit ridership was higher
Grass covering had never been used before.
Metal detectors had never been used before.
Long lines from metal detectors kept people out.
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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Zarathud » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:12 pm

Enlarge Image
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Carpet_pissr » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:32 pm

Love it.

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Re: Thread for 'Alternative Facts'

Post by Paingod » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:30 am

Sudy Nym wrote:"Alternative facts" is a marvelously Orwellian soundbite when taken to mean "different truths". But without going back and watching the interview again, I feel that it was meant more as a synonym for "counterpoints". The majority of which, yes, have been determined to be false in this case. But that doesn't change the way in which the vocabulary was most likely intended.
The way it's intended and the way it's used are even Alternative Facts here. The White House press statement wasn't a different version of the same truth, it was flatly contradictory to the real truth. It's not a gray area you can fart around in. If the new lingo for "Nazi" is "Alt-Right", we should still call them Nazis. If the new lingo for "Lies" is "Alternative Facts" we should still call them lies.

As an example, the Octopus Overlords seems to be a forum populated by a group of vocal liberals and moderates with a few conservative voices mixed in. The alternate fact (as used by the White House) is that this is a forum run by a majority of outspoken hard-line conservatives that keep the liberals in check.

I fell asleep last night alternating between (literally) giggling at how insane this was, and being horrified that they're getting away with it. I hope the list in the first post continues to grow and never stops getting updated. You may want to include a date/time and maybe a story link with each. We've got (anywhere from 1 month to 8 years) of logging falsehoods to look forward to.

The press should boycott future White House press releases and just send interns with iPhones to record the event. I know they won't, but it would be delightful.
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