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The Trump budget thread

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Alefroth » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:10 pm

Scraper wrote:I might be ok with all of this.
Seriously? I don't know what to say other than holy fucking shit.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by TheMix » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:18 pm

hepcat wrote:<I am seriously beating the whole "Trump is Chance from Being There" joke to death>
If it makes you feel any better, Keith has your back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1NMPlX7YOg (Jump to the ~2 min mark.) :)
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Holman » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:30 pm

Did they really just claim that Meals on Wheels is being cut because "it doesn't show any results"?

Other than my grandmother NOT STARVING, I guess they mean?
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Grifman » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:40 pm

Enough wrote:Killing federal support for Meals on Wheels is a stone cold killer move, straight up gangster style. This will be great for the disabled senior citizens and vets! I really need to call our local Meals on Wheels program and see how I can help.
To be fair, the Federal contribution to MOW is only 3% of their budget. It's not the end of the world in this case.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:46 pm

Grifman wrote:
Enough wrote:Killing federal support for Meals on Wheels is a stone cold killer move, straight up gangster style. This will be great for the disabled senior citizens and vets! I really need to call our local Meals on Wheels program and see how I can help.
To be fair, the Federal contribution to MOW is only 3% of their budget. It's not the end of the world in this case.
So who will serve on the hunger panels to decide which 3% don't get to eat?
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Grifman » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:47 pm

Paingod wrote:
Vorret wrote:I can't beleive 550 billion isn't enough to fund your military.
That's a fucking shitload of money, most countries total budget aren't even close to that.
Our military spending is something like triple the next "biggest" country. In 2014, our spending was roughly the same as China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, France, UK, India, and Germany combined.
To be fair, as has been pointed out, the US carries the load on a lot of stuff other countries aren't doing. We're leading the fight in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. We conduct counter terrorism actions around the world that ultimately defend Europe and other nations. We carry the load in NATO, are having to move forces in Europe to due Russian aggression, help defend South Korea and Japan.

To be honest, the military is hurting due to the sequester. This is just one serious example:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/ ... -grounded/
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Grifman » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:51 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Grifman wrote:
Enough wrote:Killing federal support for Meals on Wheels is a stone cold killer move, straight up gangster style. This will be great for the disabled senior citizens and vets! I really need to call our local Meals on Wheels program and see how I can help.
To be fair, the Federal contribution to MOW is only 3% of their budget. It's not the end of the world in this case.
So who will serve on the hunger panels to decide which 3% don't get to eat?
I suspect Meals on Wheels can't meet every need today, so that same hunger panels already in operation would have to do the job :) You're assuming they couldn't get the funding from elsewhere. My point still stands. Compared to Trump's cuts in the EPA, State Department, etc, this isn't catastrophic.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Enough » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:53 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Grifman wrote:
Enough wrote:Killing federal support for Meals on Wheels is a stone cold killer move, straight up gangster style. This will be great for the disabled senior citizens and vets! I really need to call our local Meals on Wheels program and see how I can help.
To be fair, the Federal contribution to MOW is only 3% of their budget. It's not the end of the world in this case.
So who will serve on the hunger panels to decide which 3% don't get to eat?
That it's such a small amount of money makes the cut more offensive considering the amount of good it creates for so little. We are spending more on protecting FLOTUS.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:01 pm

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Skinypupy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:12 pm

Holman wrote:Did they really just claim that Meals on Wheels is being cut because "it doesn't show any results"?

Other than my grandmother NOT STARVING, I guess they mean?
School lunches too. I mean, food obviously isn't helping them perform better, so why should we bother. Right? A direct quote from Mulvaney:
"Let's talk about after school programs generally... they're supposed to help kids who don't get fed at home get fed so they do better in school. Guess what? There's no demonstrable evidence they're actually doing that... no demonstrable evidence that they are actually helping results, helping kids do better in school."
Maybe - just maybe - there are lots of factors that are preventing a kid who depends on school lunch because they don't get fed at home from "doing better in school".
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Smoove_B » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:59 pm

Skinypupy wrote:Maybe - just maybe - there are lots of factors that are preventing a kid who depends on school lunch because they don't get fed at home from "doing better in school".
Even if what he's saying is true, could we maybe collectively agree as a society that when a child comes to school hungry there's a program in place that provides them breakfast and lunch? Or is that too much to expect in the year 2017? Again, if these children were 3 week old lumps of cells and clinging to a uterine wall, people would march up and down the street to try and shame someone undergoing an abortion. But a hungry 2nd grader? Not my problem.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:04 pm

Skinypupy wrote:School lunches too. I mean, food obviously isn't helping them perform better, so why should we bother. Right? A direct quote from Mulvaney:
"Let's talk about after school programs generally... they're supposed to help kids who don't get fed at home get fed so they do better in school. Guess what? There's no demonstrable evidence they're actually doing that... no demonstrable evidence that they are actually helping results, helping kids do better in school."
Maybe - just maybe - there are lots of factors that are preventing a kid who depends on school lunch because they don't get fed at home from "doing better in school".

Wuthe? I was against school breakfasts and lunch programs until I saw the stats on how much they were helping kids do better in school. I was (and am) kind of offended the cost and at schools taking on parenting roles but then results made me sit down and take note. I don't have the oomph to find the data from nearly a decade ago that showed the changes in performance based on feeding children at school.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Rip » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:59 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Grifman wrote:
Enough wrote:Killing federal support for Meals on Wheels is a stone cold killer move, straight up gangster style. This will be great for the disabled senior citizens and vets! I really need to call our local Meals on Wheels program and see how I can help.
To be fair, the Federal contribution to MOW is only 3% of their budget. It's not the end of the world in this case.
So who will serve on the hunger panels to decide which 3% don't get to eat?
What does it pay?

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:41 pm

It's a volunteer position. The warm fuzzies should be enough of a reward.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by milo » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:01 pm

Enough wrote:I know it's an inaccurate trope, but it's also a word in the English dictionary for what I was trying to say. I am happy to stop usage of the word, but my understanding is that it's still an acceptable way to describe those without culture or hostile to it?
I think the word you are looking for is nekulturny.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by milo » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:05 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Grifman wrote:
Enough wrote:Killing federal support for Meals on Wheels is a stone cold killer move, straight up gangster style. This will be great for the disabled senior citizens and vets! I really need to call our local Meals on Wheels program and see how I can help.
To be fair, the Federal contribution to MOW is only 3% of their budget.
So who will serve on the hunger panels to decide which 3% don't get to eat are eaten by the other 97%?
Do I have to do everything myself?
It's not the end of the world in this case.
It might be for those 3%.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Paingod » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:17 am

ImLawBoy wrote:
Vorret wrote:I can't beleive 550 billion isn't enough to fund your military.
That's a fucking shitload of money, most countries total budget aren't even close to that.
To be fair, the US is the police force of the world. Other nations would likely have to bulk up their budgets if we cut ours significantly. (Whether or not we should be the police force for the world is another matter - just noting that we are.)
Allowing the next two biggest military forces, China and Russia, to "police the world" would be a tragic mistake for humanity. The other choice is no police at all. I'm not sure what that would do, and how much we actually "make things more stable".
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Skinypupy » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:29 am

LordMortis wrote:I was against school breakfasts and lunch programs until I saw the stats on how much they were helping kids do better in school. I was (and am) kind of offended the cost and at schools taking on parenting roles but then results made me sit down and take note.
Wait, you were against school lunch programs until you saw that it made them better students?

Maybe it's just my bleeding heart, but I can't really wrap my brain around being against a kid receiving possibly the only meal he's going to get that day, simply because there's a chance it might not have upped his grades.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by gilraen » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:40 am

Skinypupy wrote:
LordMortis wrote:I was against school breakfasts and lunch programs until I saw the stats on how much they were helping kids do better in school. I was (and am) kind of offended the cost and at schools taking on parenting roles but then results made me sit down and take note.
Wait, you were against school lunch programs until you saw that it made them better students?

Maybe it's just my bleeding heart, but I can't really wrap my brain around being against a kid receiving possibly the only meal he's going to get that day, simply because there's a chance it might not have upped his grades.
Schools in (generally) poor areas are often reluctant to call snow days because they know how many of their students receive free breakfast and/or lunch in school. Numerous articles on this throughout the last few years, one just a couple of days ago in WaPo. Snow day on Mon or Fri, or a major storm lasting several days - would mean that a kid may go several days without enough food.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:43 am

Skinypupy wrote:
LordMortis wrote:I was against school breakfasts and lunch programs until I saw the stats on how much they were helping kids do better in school. I was (and am) kind of offended the cost and at schools taking on parenting roles but then results made me sit down and take note.
Wait, you were against school lunch programs until you saw that it made them better students?

Maybe it's just my bleeding heart, but I can't really wrap my brain around being against a kid receiving possibly the only meal he's going to get that day, simply because there's a chance it might not have upped his grades.
I both do not like the bloated expense (and it is bloated) and the additional step taken toward turning school into the state surrogate parent. My reaction is more complex than starving a kid from possibly the only meal he's going to get that day. But in short you are completely correct. I was against (actually the breakfast programs) until I saw it made them better students.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by hepcat » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:50 am

gilraen wrote:
Skinypupy wrote:
LordMortis wrote:I was against school breakfasts and lunch programs until I saw the stats on how much they were helping kids do better in school. I was (and am) kind of offended the cost and at schools taking on parenting roles but then results made me sit down and take note.
Wait, you were against school lunch programs until you saw that it made them better students?

Maybe it's just my bleeding heart, but I can't really wrap my brain around being against a kid receiving possibly the only meal he's going to get that day, simply because there's a chance it might not have upped his grades.
Schools in (generally) poor areas are often reluctant to call snow days because they know how many of their students receive free breakfast and/or lunch in school. Numerous articles on this throughout the last few years, one just a couple of days ago in WaPo. Snow day on Mon or Fri, or a major storm lasting several days - would mean that a kid may go several days without enough food.
Good Lord, that's heartbreaking.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:50 am

gilraen wrote:Snow day on Mon or Fri, or a major storm lasting several days - would mean that a kid may go several days without enough food.
It's also why the Obama administration pushed for funding to continue the Summer Food Service - to address the fact that kids were likely going hungry during summer recess. But we need a wall, so f those kids too.

Between the healthcare related nonsense and the targeting of assistance programs, it's like people are trying to turn the clocks back to the early 1900s. It's blowing my mind.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:53 am

LordMortis wrote:I both do not like the bloated expense (and it is bloated) and the additional step taken toward turning school into the state surrogate parent.
School Nutrition stats
National School Lunch Program (NSLP)
5 billion lunches are served annually

NSLP Annual Cost: 13 billion in federal dollars
...
School Breakfast Program (SBP)
2.3 billion breakfasts are served annually

SBP Annual Cost:3.9 billion in federal reimbursements
You getting breakfast for $1.70 and lunch for $2.60 a day?

And the reason we need the state to surrogate parent is because we can't actually count on the actual parents doing their jobs. Who is going to pick up the slack? Private charities? There's a recipe for inefficiencies, duplication of effort, and people falling through the cracks.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:59 am

Smoove_B wrote:Between the healthcare related nonsense and the targeting of assistance programs, it's like people are trying to turn the clocks back to the early 1900s. It's blowing my mind.

They are. There is a modern evangelical WASP equivalent of the meglaloCalvinist mindset.

Thank the Lord that he is acting through Trump to provide $88 a month health care to provide for their son in his time of need. But your inner city heathen kid? Fuck him! You lazy shit.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Skinypupy » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:59 am

LordMortis wrote:I both do not like the bloated expense (and it is bloated) and the additional step taken toward turning school into the state surrogate parent.
I get being against bloat (although I'd disagree with you that it's excessive) and not wanting the school to be the surrogate.

However, when the alternative is a hungry kid, I'm fairly willing to overlook both of those things. Regardless of whether or not it makes them a better student.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by ImLawBoy » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:59 am

What makes me shake my head about this, with the Meals on Wheels thing being a good example, is how tone deaf everyone in this administration seems to be. The message about MoW should have been something along the lines of, "Federal funding only accounts for 3% of the MoW budget. While we hate to burden them additionally, current financial times call for sacrifices. The good news is that they will still be adequately funded to perform their vital mission, and we hope that they can make up for the gap with private contributions." Instead, they essentially message this as, "Old people. Fuck 'em."
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Scraper » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:07 am

Alefroth wrote:
Scraper wrote:I might be ok with all of this.
Seriously? I don't know what to say other than holy fucking shit.
I guess I should clarify this. I would be ok with it if our economy and government spending was so out of control that we were facing governmental collapse. Thus we literally had to cut back on everything. That's not the case here. He is proposing we cut everything that actually helps low and middle class Americans, while at the same time increasing spending on the Military.

If we truly did have to cut every program including the military because of need then I would be ok with it.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by raydude » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:08 am

Paingod wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
Vorret wrote:I can't beleive 550 billion isn't enough to fund your military.
That's a fucking shitload of money, most countries total budget aren't even close to that.
To be fair, the US is the police force of the world. Other nations would likely have to bulk up their budgets if we cut ours significantly. (Whether or not we should be the police force for the world is another matter - just noting that we are.)
Allowing the next two biggest military forces, China and Russia, to "police the world" would be a tragic mistake for humanity. The other choice is no police at all. I'm not sure what that would do, and how much we actually "make things more stable".
To be fair, "policing the world" requires a lot of capital. Which arguably Russia does not have and which China may not have if they get into a trade war with the US. If they want to police the world I say let them spend the capital and see how far it gets their economy.

As far as no police, beyond the Freedom of Navigation exercises and the war against ISIS, I'm not sure we're doing much policing nowadays anyway. I would be fine with us being the "fire fighters" of the world and only responding to emergencies. Events on the order of the Kuwait invasion for example.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by RunningMn9 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:11 am

ImLawBoy wrote:The message about MoW should have been something along the lines of, "Federal funding only accounts for 3% of the MoW budget.
But they can't make that message, because it rings hollow when you are effectively blowing that funding on a weekly basis by traveling to Florida to play golf (every. goddamn. weekend) and the fact that we have to maintain security at a third White House because your wife hates you and doesn't want to live in the actual White House.

Clearly no one constructing the budget is worrying about sacrifices (except for sacrifices that won't ever affect them personally).
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:14 am

Isgrimnur wrote:You getting breakfast for $1.70 and lunch for $2.60 a day?
I eat breakfast for under $.30 a day and lunch for around $2 a day. I do also have a 20 oz of coffee that would apparently cost around $.065 (as costco pricing for Folgers which is my brand) if I had to pay for it every day plus water. That's for the cost of about 700 meals per year, as apposed to 7 billion.
And the reason we need the state to surrogate parent is because we can't actually count on the actual parents doing their jobs. Who is going to pick up the slack? Private charities? There's a recipe for inefficiencies, duplication of effort, and people falling through the cracks.
And that's what makes me sad and that's why we, in essence, need the state to pick up the slack. As a nation, we're proving that we need to have the school act a surrogate parent, because kids as a whole are going to school unfed and their energy is proven to be spent on distraction over being hungry vs the stated intent of having them learn.

I don't like it all, but that's the reality of where we are at.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:17 am

LordMortis wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:You getting breakfast for $1.70 and lunch for $2.60 a day?
I eat breakfast for under $.30 a day and lunch for around $2 a day. I do also have a 20 oz of coffee that would apparently cost around $.065 (as costco pricing for Folgers which is my brand) if I had to pay for it every day plus water. That's for the cost of about 700 meals per year, as apposed to 7 billion.
Now add in your hourly wage. Then scale it up to try and do it for 200 other people at the same time.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:17 am

RunningMn9 wrote:Clearly no one constructing the budget is worrying about sacrifices (except for sacrifices that won't ever affect them personally).
I'd say that is the message this republican government is sending but also "Praise Trump for $88 health insurance" (As you can tell, that is going to be stuck in my craw for a while)

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Holman » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:19 am

Meals on Wheels is saying that significantly more than 3% of their funding is at risk in the new budget.

I also just came across the note that 500,000 veterans are served by the program. Not that others are less deserving of assistance, but this would be an interesting point to see Republicans acknowledge.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:20 am

Holman wrote:Meals on Wheels is saying that significantly more than 3% of their funding is at risk in the new budget.

I also just came across the note that 500,000 veterans are served by the program. Not that others are less deserving of assistance, but this would be an interesting point to see Republicans acknowledge.

Military assets are all that are important. Veterans are just human resources. The resource has been used for all its worth. Fuck them.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by ImLawBoy » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:21 am

RunningMn9 wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:The message about MoW should have been something along the lines of, "Federal funding only accounts for 3% of the MoW budget.
But they can't make that message, because it rings hollow when you are effectively blowing that funding on a weekly basis by traveling to Florida to play golf (every. goddamn. weekend) and the fact that we have to maintain security at a third White House because your wife hates you and doesn't want to live in the actual White House.

Clearly no one constructing the budget is worrying about sacrifices (except for sacrifices that won't ever affect them personally).
Logically, sure. But it would certainly still sound a lot better than what they actually said.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:29 am

The fact that they're not even trying to provide a statement that sounds better than what they are proposing speaks volumes. The message is screw health, screw assistance, screw culture, animals and open spaces. We need a wall and more military funding. And it's being gobbled up, because f PBS and hungry lazy people that simultaneously steal my jobs and also collect public assistance.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Kurth » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:45 am

LordMortis wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:You getting breakfast for $1.70 and lunch for $2.60 a day?
I eat breakfast for under $.30 a day and lunch for around $2 a day. I do also have a 20 oz of coffee that would apparently cost around $.065 (as costco pricing for Folgers which is my brand) if I had to pay for it every day plus water. That's for the cost of about 700 meals per year, as apposed to 7 billion.
Hold on a second. As the guy who makes breakfasts every morning and does all the grocery shopping, I am very curious as to what kind of breakfast you eat for $.30 a day. I'm also guessing that it may not be the kind of nutritious, filling breakfast a school kid needs to get him or her through the day. But let us know.
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stessier
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by stessier » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:59 am

Kurth wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:You getting breakfast for $1.70 and lunch for $2.60 a day?
I eat breakfast for under $.30 a day and lunch for around $2 a day. I do also have a 20 oz of coffee that would apparently cost around $.065 (as costco pricing for Folgers which is my brand) if I had to pay for it every day plus water. That's for the cost of about 700 meals per year, as apposed to 7 billion.
Hold on a second. As the guy who makes breakfasts every morning and does all the grocery shopping, I am very curious as to what kind of breakfast you eat for $.30 a day. I'm also guessing that it may not be the kind of nutritious, filling breakfast a school kid needs to get him or her through the day. But let us know.
Check out the Middle Class thread (not for the menu, but for a general overview)- his abilities around self deprivation are pretty impressive.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by pr0ner » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:04 am

stessier wrote:
Kurth wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:You getting breakfast for $1.70 and lunch for $2.60 a day?
I eat breakfast for under $.30 a day and lunch for around $2 a day. I do also have a 20 oz of coffee that would apparently cost around $.065 (as costco pricing for Folgers which is my brand) if I had to pay for it every day plus water. That's for the cost of about 700 meals per year, as apposed to 7 billion.
Hold on a second. As the guy who makes breakfasts every morning and does all the grocery shopping, I am very curious as to what kind of breakfast you eat for $.30 a day. I'm also guessing that it may not be the kind of nutritious, filling breakfast a school kid needs to get him or her through the day. But let us know.
Check out the Middle Class thread (not for the menu, but for a general overview)- his abilities around self deprivation are pretty impressive.
Or any LordMortis post in a food thread, really.
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LordMortis
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:10 am

Kurth wrote:Hold on a second. As the guy who makes breakfasts every morning and does all the grocery shopping, I am very curious as to what kind of breakfast you eat for $.30 a day. I'm also guessing that it may not be the kind of nutritious, filling breakfast a school kid needs to get him or her through the day. But let us know.
Quaker instant oatmeal. I get 52 packs for about $6. It'd be cheaper if I just used Quaker oats and added flavoring myself. It's only 160 calories and is not heavy on Vitamin D or C which are the two heavy hitters you need nutritionally. But that wasn't the question addressed at me. The question was how much it cost to feed me.

For a $1.99 plus tax and tip, I can go to a diner and get two eggs, two slices of toast with jelly, a huge plate of fried potatoes or two pancakes, and a hunk of meat (about 2 oz, I'd guess, in ham, sausage, or bacon format) or monkey dish of fruit (mainly melon). I honestly don't know how they do it, but several for profit diners by me are doing it every week day between 06:00 and 10:00 and they still don't have the volume and have more expenses than a school lunch room should much less a chain of lunch rooms across the US.

Food fluctuates, but retail a loaf of wheat bread, 20 slices for a buck, eggs on sale 59 cents a dozen, half of a dollar sized potato, breakfast meat at around $3 a pound or around $.37 a portion says I would make the same thing at home for $1.02 plus condiments, say another $.25. Add a juice single serving for a kid's breakfast at another $.30 and retail we're not too far off at $1.57 retail but retail is not how schools (should) operate.

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