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The Trump budget thread

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Kurth
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Kurth » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:53 am

LordMortis wrote:
Kurth wrote:Hold on a second. As the guy who makes breakfasts every morning and does all the grocery shopping, I am very curious as to what kind of breakfast you eat for $.30 a day. I'm also guessing that it may not be the kind of nutritious, filling breakfast a school kid needs to get him or her through the day. But let us know.
Food fluctuates, but retail a loaf of wheat bread, 20 slices for a buck, eggs on sale 59 cents a dozen, half of a dollar sized potato, breakfast meat at around $3 a pound or around $.37 a portion says I would make the same thing at home for $1.02 plus condiments, say another $.25. Add a juice single serving for a kid's breakfast at another $.30 and retail we're not too far off at $1.57 retail but retail is not how schools (should) operate.
Ok, so I think we're on the same page. If you can feed yourself for $1.57, it's probably not "excessive bloat" if the schools are providing breakfast to kids for $1.70.

[Also, just as an aside, your food prices do not correlate -- not by a long shot -- with what I see in my local (Portland, OR, metro area) Safeway by any means.]

Ok, the issue of food prices got me curious, so I checked out online grocery price comparisontool and found this:

- Bread = $2.98
- Eggs = $1.88
- Bacon = $3.50/lb
- OJ = $2.99/59 fl oz (.43 per 8 oz serving)

Most of those prices are Wal-mart, as they are everywhere and tend to be pretty cheap.
Last edited by Kurth on Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by pr0ner » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:05 pm

59 cents for a dozen eggs! Lol.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:08 pm

Oct '16
If you've bought a carton of eggs, especially your garden-variety commodity supermarket eggs (the irony being of course that no gardens are involved), you might have noticed something: eggs are insanely cheap right now.

In fact, as Quartz notes, eggs haven’t been as cheap as they are now for a full decade, after adjustment for inflation. The average price, according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, is down to $1.46 per dozen, and there are deals much lower than that; it isn’t unheard of for eggs to sell for a nutso $0.99 per dozen.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:16 pm

WaPo
There has been a lot of media criticism of Mulvaney for suggesting that the popular Meals and Wheels program does not work or is “just not showing results.”

But, because of tweets and snippets posted on the Web, it appears his comments have been misinterpreted. He was not talking about Meals on Wheels, but about a program in Housing and Urban Development Department known as CDBG, or community development block grants.

There are some scattered municipalities which use some of their CDBG funds to help fund nutrition programs for the elderly. But most of the funding for Meals on Wheels comes from a separate program run out of the Health and Human Services Department, said Jenny Bertolette, vice president of communications at Meals on Wheels.

“The FY 2016 budget level for the Older Americans Act Nutrition Program (through HHS) was $834,753,000,” she said. “The 2017 ask (proposed by House) is $848,557,000.”
...
The Trump administration has proposed a 17.9 percent cut in funding for HHS, but it has provided no detail on whether that would also impact the Administration for Community Living, which funds nutrition programs for the elderly. Bertolette said it was fair to assume there would be an impact.
...
But Alison Foreman, the director of Ypsilanti Meals on Wheels, said while government funding made up about 30 percent of its funds, almost all of that came from the HHS program. But “last year Washtenaw County Office of Community and Economic Development did issue pass thru [CDBG] dollars to YMOW for vehicle updates and staff support,” she said.
...
Here is the ... quote by Mulvaney at the press briefing.
As you know, or I think you know that Meals on Wheels is not a federal program. It’s part of that community — the CDBG — the block grants that we give to the states. And then many states make the decision to use that money on Meals on Wheels.

Here’s what I can tell you about CDBGs because that’s what we fund — right? — is that we spend $150 billion on those programs since the 1970s. The CDBGs have been identified as programs since I believe the first — actually, the second Bush administration as ones that were just not showing any results. We can’t do that anymore. We can’t spend money on programs just because they sound good. And Meals on Wheels sounds great — again, that’s a state decision to fund that particular portion to. But to take the federal money and give it to the states and say, look, we want to give you money for programs that don’t work — I can’t defend that anymore. We cannot defend that anymore. We’re $20 trillion in debt.
...
Later in the briefing, Mulvaney was asked about after-school programs that might be cut. “They’re supposed to help kids who don’t get fed at home get fed so they do better in school,” he said. “Guess what? There’s no demonstrable evidence they’re actually doing that. There’s no demonstrable evidence of actually helping results, helping kids do better in school.”
He is being unclear at best regarding MoW. And the meal programs were in context of after-school programs, not in-school breakfast/lunch.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:19 pm

pr0ner wrote:59 cents for a dozen eggs! Lol.
I just grabbed the Meijer sale price this week which usually correlates with the every day price ALDI and the price per peice @3 dozen at Costco.
Meijer Grade A Large Eggs
$0.59
1 dozen carton.
I do remember when the chickens were dying everywhere, eggs were up to nearly $2 a dozen. Like I said prices fluctuate. 80/20 burger is $1.99 a pound right now and bacon is $2.99 a pound. Reacting to gas prices not that long ago it was more like $3.99 and 4.99 a pound. Milk that was $3 a gallon a few years ago can now be had for $1.49 a gallon.

Edit:

You wouldn't know it from this thread but I'm not obsessed with eating/living on a budget. I was obsessed until I paid off my mortgage. Now it's just a habit of responsibility. I don't coupon shop any more and I don't shop at what amounts to 6 different grocers to get the best pricing at any given time. (I'm down to three. I get what's cheap but acceptable at ALDI, I sale shop at Costco, and I sale shop buy produce at Meijer) I do still tend to sale shop and buy enough of products that hold when they are on sale to get me to the next time they go on sale.
Last edited by LordMortis on Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by NickAragua » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:38 pm

Not to worry, it'll come back up soon enough.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Fireball » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:12 pm

Enough wrote:Looking over at what will be completely cut and seeing some interesting choices. Besides making Putin pleased as punch by gutting State, how about ending all federal funding for the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars located at the Ronald Reagan Building?
This is so bad. We rely on Wilson Center scholars a great deal — they are fair, nonpartisan, and know their shit. I've taken senior staff courses at the Wilson Center, and they were illuminating. Also, the Wilson Center is, technically, the memorial to Woodrow Wilson — instead of a monument, Congress established a policy center to continue his major life's work. This is literally like selling off the Jefferson Memorial to save on maintenance costs.
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Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Fireball » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:24 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:WaPo
There has been a lot of media criticism of Mulvaney for suggesting that the popular Meals and Wheels program does not work or is “just not showing results.”

But, because of tweets and snippets posted on the Web, it appears his comments have been misinterpreted. He was not talking about Meals on Wheels, but about a program in Housing and Urban Development Department known as CDBG, or community development block grants.

There are some scattered municipalities which use some of their CDBG funds to help fund nutrition programs for the elderly. But most of the funding for Meals on Wheels comes from a separate program run out of the Health and Human Services Department, said Jenny Bertolette, vice president of communications at Meals on Wheels.

“The FY 2016 budget level for the Older Americans Act Nutrition Program (through HHS) was $834,753,000,” she said. “The 2017 ask (proposed by House) is $848,557,000.”
...
The Trump administration has proposed a 17.9 percent cut in funding for HHS, but it has provided no detail on whether that would also impact the Administration for Community Living, which funds nutrition programs for the elderly. Bertolette said it was fair to assume there would be an impact.
...
But Alison Foreman, the director of Ypsilanti Meals on Wheels, said while government funding made up about 30 percent of its funds, almost all of that came from the HHS program. But “last year Washtenaw County Office of Community and Economic Development did issue pass thru [CDBG] dollars to YMOW for vehicle updates and staff support,” she said.
...
Here is the ... quote by Mulvaney at the press briefing.
As you know, or I think you know that Meals on Wheels is not a federal program. It’s part of that community — the CDBG — the block grants that we give to the states. And then many states make the decision to use that money on Meals on Wheels.

Here’s what I can tell you about CDBGs because that’s what we fund — right? — is that we spend $150 billion on those programs since the 1970s. The CDBGs have been identified as programs since I believe the first — actually, the second Bush administration as ones that were just not showing any results. We can’t do that anymore. We can’t spend money on programs just because they sound good. And Meals on Wheels sounds great — again, that’s a state decision to fund that particular portion to. But to take the federal money and give it to the states and say, look, we want to give you money for programs that don’t work — I can’t defend that anymore. We cannot defend that anymore. We’re $20 trillion in debt.
...
Later in the briefing, Mulvaney was asked about after-school programs that might be cut. “They’re supposed to help kids who don’t get fed at home get fed so they do better in school,” he said. “Guess what? There’s no demonstrable evidence they’re actually doing that. There’s no demonstrable evidence of actually helping results, helping kids do better in school.”
He is being unclear at best regarding MoW. And the meal programs were in context of after-school programs, not in-school breakfast/lunch.
Mulvaney says that there's no evidence that CDBG was working the night after the city commission I chair had a discussion with the local housing authority regarding how many low-income families will no longer be able to live in subsidized housing if CDBG was cut. Like his boss, Mulvaney is a lying asshole.
Last edited by Fireball on Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by The Meal » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:53 pm

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Max Peck » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:59 pm

Anyone not had their fill of schadenfreude yet?
President Donald Trump has proposed eliminating funding for economic development programs supporting laid-off coal miners and others in Appalachia, stirring fears in a region that supported him of another letdown on the heels of the coal industry’s collapse.

The 2018 budget proposal submitted to Congress by the White House on Thursday would cut funds to the Appalachian Regional Commission (ARC) and the U.S. Economic Development Administration. The Washington-based organizations are charged with diversifying the economies of states like West Virginia and Kentucky to help them recover from coal’s decline.

The proposed cuts would save the federal government $340 million and come as the Republican president seeks to slash a wide array of federal programs and regulations to make way for increased military spending.

But they are perceived by some in Appalachia as a betrayal of his promises to help coal miners.

"Folks that live in Appalachia believe that the ARC belongs to them," said federal ARC Co-Chair Earl Gohl, bemoaning the proposed cut. "It's really their organization."

Republican Congressman Hal Rogers, who represents eastern Kentucky's coal counties, said he would fight to restore the funding when Congress negotiates the budget later this year.

“It's true that the president won his election in rural country. I would really like to see him climb aboard the ARC vehicle as a way to help us help ourselves," Rogers said.

Four hundred of the 420 counties ARC operates in voted for Trump in November's election.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:02 pm

"Folks that live in Appalachia believe that the ARC belongs to them,"
I think they misunderstand then, because President Trump agrees with them. It belongs to them so much, he believes they should be paying for it 100%.
Each year ARC provides funding for several hundred investments in the Appalachian Region, in areas such as business development, education and job training, telecommunications, infrastructure, community development, housing, and transportation. These projects create thousands of new jobs; improve local water and sewer systems; increase school readiness; expand access to health care; assist local communities with strategic planning; and provide technical and managerial assistance to emerging businesses.
Start hoisting those local bootstraps Appalachians.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by coopasonic » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:06 pm

There won't be any need for diversification of the economy when coal makes its comeback with that new clean coal technology (I think they call it solar)!
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:07 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
"Folks that live in Appalachia believe that the ARC belongs to them,"
I think they misunderstand then, because President Trump agrees with them. It belongs to them so much, he believes they should be paying for it 100%.
Each year ARC provides funding for several hundred investments in the Appalachian Region, in areas such as business development, education and job training, telecommunications, infrastructure, community development, housing, and transportation. These projects create thousands of new jobs; improve local water and sewer systems; increase school readiness; expand access to health care; assist local communities with strategic planning; and provide technical and managerial assistance to emerging businesses.
Start hoisting those local bootstraps Appalachians.

Fuckin' Obama.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by stessier » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:08 pm

coopasonic wrote:There won't be any need for diversification of the economy when coal makes its comeback with that new clean coal technology
I heard Volkswagon was working on the concept with them and had some really promising lab data.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:11 pm

stessier wrote:
coopasonic wrote:There won't be any need for diversification of the economy when coal makes its comeback with that new clean coal technology
I heard Volkswagon was working on the concept with them and had some really promising lab data.
Yeah but do their emission reporting concur?

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by stessier » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:15 pm

That was the joke.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:18 pm

I was playing along at home.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Alefroth » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:19 pm

gilraen wrote:
Skinypupy wrote:
LordMortis wrote:I was against school breakfasts and lunch programs until I saw the stats on how much they were helping kids do better in school. I was (and am) kind of offended the cost and at schools taking on parenting roles but then results made me sit down and take note.
Wait, you were against school lunch programs until you saw that it made them better students?

Maybe it's just my bleeding heart, but I can't really wrap my brain around being against a kid receiving possibly the only meal he's going to get that day, simply because there's a chance it might not have upped his grades.
Schools in (generally) poor areas are often reluctant to call snow days because they know how many of their students receive free breakfast and/or lunch in school. Numerous articles on this throughout the last few years, one just a couple of days ago in WaPo. Snow day on Mon or Fri, or a major storm lasting several days - would mean that a kid may go several days without enough food.
We had a whole snow week here in the PNW and facilities opened up with the sole purpose of feeding those kids who rely on school for nutrition.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Holman » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:42 pm

Alefroth wrote: We had a whole snow week here in the PNW and facilities opened up with the sole purpose of feeding those kids who rely on school for nutrition.
See, that's the kind of waste this budget is intended to prevent.

Do you even realize how many hours at Mar-a-Lago that week could have funded??
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by stessier » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:51 pm

LordMortis wrote:I was playing along at home.
You're so good at the self deprivation thing, you've take to saving electrons!
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:52 pm

stessier wrote:
LordMortis wrote:I was playing along at home.
You're so good at the self deprivation thing, you've take to saving electrons!
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Defiant » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:39 pm


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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Grifman » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:08 am

ImLawBoy wrote:What makes me shake my head about this, with the Meals on Wheels thing being a good example, is how tone deaf everyone in this administration seems to be. The message about MoW should have been something along the lines of, "Federal funding only accounts for 3% of the MoW budget. While we hate to burden them additionally, current financial times call for sacrifices. The good news is that they will still be adequately funded to perform their vital mission, and we hope that they can make up for the gap with private contributions." Instead, they essentially message this as, "Old people. Fuck 'em."
In reading further, the cuts will probably be worse for MOW. The Community Block grants that are being eliminated only account for 3%. But HHS contributes somewhere between 20% and 30% to MOW and HHS is being cut 17%. If it is across the board, then MOW will face a 20% shortfall.

What's really bad is this will be followed by tax cuts that largely benefit the wealthy. So the savings from the repeal of Obamacare and the social services cuts will fund the military and tax cuts. They are literally taking from the poor to give tax cuts to the rich.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Grifman » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:09 am

Holman wrote:Meals on Wheels is saying that significantly more than 3% of their funding is at risk in the new budget.

I also just came across the note that 500,000 veterans are served by the program. Not that others are less deserving of assistance, but this would be an interesting point to see Republicans acknowledge.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by El Guapo » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:23 am


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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Skinypupy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:41 am

Great read, thanks.
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by pr0ner » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:56 am

I'm curious how many people here *really* think Trump's budget has a chance of getting out of the full Congress, because it seems to me it was DOA the moment it was announced, and buried when Graham and McCain said "no way".
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Carpet_pissr » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:05 am

RunningMn9 wrote:you are effectively blowing that funding on a weekly basis by traveling to Florida to play golf (every. goddamn. weekend)
To be fair, if Trump was not shoo'd down to Florida every weekend, how would President Bannon get the real America-fucking work done?

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Zaxxon » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:54 am

pr0ner wrote:I'm curious how many people here *really* think Trump's budget has a chance of getting out of the full Congress, because it seems to me it was DOA the moment it was announced, and buried when Graham and McCain said "no way".
For me it's not about this specific budget being passed. Clearly there's zero chance of that. But it's an opening offer, so to speak, and the final result is likely to be a watered-down but still terrifying version of this opening salvo.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Holman » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:22 am

Right. And Trump will claim credit for bipartisan compromise when he scales back from "suicidal insanity" to "crippling idiocy."
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Kraken » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:26 pm

Holman wrote:Right. And Trump will claim credit for bipartisan compromise when he scales back from "suicidal insanity" to "crippling idiocy."
That's his usual MO. After reading El Guapo's link about sequestration last night, I'm more sanguine about Trump's posturing.
What seems much more likely is that Trump will find himself in a similar position to Obama, and that this Congress will find itself in a similar situation to past Congresses. Dramatic proposals will soon become piddling changes. Grand budget deals will instead become a series of muddling-through continuing resolutions. Disorder, sludge, idiocy, randomness, and inertia will win out.
Let's hope so.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Alefroth » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:48 pm

pr0ner wrote:I'm curious how many people here *really* think Trump's budget has a chance of getting out of the full Congress, because it seems to me it was DOA the moment it was announced, and buried when Graham and McCain said "no way".
I don't think anyone expects it to pass as is (has that ever happened?), but it is good insight into the administration's vision for America.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by LordMortis » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:10 am

Kurth wrote:Ok, the issue of food prices got me curious, so I checked out online grocery price comparisontool and found this:

- Bread = $2.98
L'oven Fresh $4.29 24 oz
The Hell? That is often the exact bread I buy from Aldi for $1.00 a loaf.

But more importantly the propaganda machine machine managed to really and seriously effectively make something stick in my craw. We all remember that in addition to all of the 3 Million a week it's estimated to cost so DJT can play golf at White House South, Melinia lives in WhiteHouse Central at an estimated cost of $183 Million, ostensibly so Baron doesn't have to transfer schools. This stat was just laid side by side with the fact that DJT wants to dismantle the NEA for a savings of $148 Million a year. Domestically, he really is being made out to be the contemporary Marie Antoinette at a time when the peasants anointed him their hero.

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Holman » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:02 am

Incidentally, I just saw that this budget for dismantling government assistance to the needy, science, and worthy causes while undermining our world leadership actually has a name.
Spoiler:
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Rip » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:43 am

To quote Colbert (in character) on Meals on Wheels.

"It is literally throwing money down the toilet"


:lol:

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:56 am

Everything old is new again in Trump budgetary policy:
The president has instructed advisers to propose cutting the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 15 percent, according to White House officials who said they were not authorized to speak publicly about the plan. The rate reduction — which independent budget experts say could cost the federal government $2.4 trillion over a decade — is larger than what House Republicans had proposed in their own plan.

...

“The tax plan will pay for itself with economic growth,” Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said Monday.
I feel like we've seen this before...
Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people?
Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but ... But it might work for us.

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Zarathud
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Zarathud » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:59 pm

I spoke with a financial forecaster this week who is projecting 10% national revenue growth assuming nothing changes in the next 2 years. We don't need an economic stimulus or tax cut.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:41 pm

Zarathud wrote:I spoke with a financial forecaster this week who is projecting 10% national revenue growth assuming nothing changes in the next 2 years. We don't need an economic stimulus or tax cut.
If he's willing to offer me a equity-indexed annuity with a 5% floor, I will send him my investments.
Silver - 1k

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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by El Guapo » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:49 pm

Zarathud wrote:I spoke with a financial forecaster this week who is projecting 10% national revenue growth assuming nothing changes in the next 2 years. We don't need an economic stimulus or tax cut.
Was his name John Miller?

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Smoove_B
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Re: The Trump budget thread

Post by Smoove_B » Tue May 23, 2017 6:10 pm

A list of the 66 programs cut from the Trump budget. Of note?
Health and Human Services — $4.834 billion

Education Department — $4.976 billion
But too many to list. Insanity - though it doesn't seem to be playing well.

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