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The Trump foreign policy thread

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The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:46 am

Smoove_B wrote:I feel like there needs to be a Trump foreign policy thread. Between the British news this morning and the implication that we're apparently willing to go to war with North Korea, it's apparently a great weekend to head back to Florida.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:03 am

Tillerson says diplomacy has failed:
The Trump administration made a clear break Thursday with diplomatic efforts to talk North Korea out of a nuclear confrontation, bringing the United States and its Asian allies closer to a military response than at any point in more than a decade.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said that 20 years of trying to persuade North Korea to abandon its nuclear program had failed and that he was visiting Asia “to exchange views on a new approach.”

...

Tillerson made a version of Trump’s argument that the United States will demand clear benefits for its diplomacy and foreign aid and will walk away when necessary. Tillerson scoffed at the U.S. expense for trying to entice North Korea to drop its nuclear program — $1.35 billion by his count.

“That encouragement has been met with further development of nuclear capabilities, more missile launches,” including this month and last, Tillerson said. “In the face of this ever-escalating threat, it is clear that a different approach is required.”
It's weird that a former CEO of a petroleum conglomerate is talking about all this on our behalf, right?
The failed diplomatic outreach had coincided with U.S. efforts to reassure North Korea that it did not plan an unprovoked attack — something the North has long claimed is a Washington plot.

In his opening remarks in Tokyo, Tillerson appeared to give a nod to those reassurances, however. “North Korea and its people need not fear the United States or their neighbors in the region who seek only to live in peace with North Korea,” he said.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:35 am

I would hate to be in Seoul if this all kicks off. With the South Korean political chaos I can't help but think this might be beyond our CEO government. Especially since we have accounts they don't use the existing institutional knowledge with wisdom.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by geezer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:44 am

I many cases, the "smart" foreign policy choice seems to me to be fairly obvious in general goals, if not execution (i.e. Iraq looked like a train wreck coming a mile away, and only nut jobs think that direct confrontation with Iran was the better play a few years ago), but with NK, it's really a bad situation IMO. I'm no expert obviously, but there don't really seem to be any positive moves to be made, except maintain the status quo, and NK is trying hard to not allow that.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:45 am

They will greet us as liberators!

In the meantime, isn't "possible sudden war with a nuclear-armed opponent" the kind of thing you ought to take press questions about?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:09 pm

Not sure how I missed this nugget:
Meanwhile, his shortened diplomatic consultations and public events in Seoul spawned a flurry of speculation given a leadership vacuum and political uncertainties.

The joint news conference aside, Tillerson spent almost two 1/2 hours with Kishida including a dinner and another one hour with Abe. But his meetings with Yun and Hwang were confined to about an hour 1/2, respectively, without any lunch or dinner gathering. Seoul officials said the US side opted not to have a meal together, citing the secretary’s “fatigue.”
Low energy. Sad. But Hillary needed help getting up and down stairs, so there's that.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Defiant » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:46 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:I feel like there needs to be a Trump foreign policy thread. Between the British news this morning and the implication that we're apparently willing to go to war with North Korea, it's apparently a great weekend to head back to Florida.
Just so long as he doesn't manage to somehow reignite the Cuban Missile Crisis. :pop:

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Defiant » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:47 pm

Two groups who have advocated against expanding rights and funding for women and the LGBTIQ community are attending a United Nations meeting on women’s rights, on behalf of the US.
link

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:21 pm

Looks like we might be able to add Germany to this thread soon.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:46 pm

Trump denies responsibility for his own accusation that the British spied on him, blames Fox News.
"We said nothing. All we did was quote a certain, very talented legal mind who was the one responsible for saying that on television," Trump responded. "I didn't make an opinion on it. That was a statement made by a very talented lawyer on Fox. And so you shouldn't be talking to me. You should be talking to Fox. Okay?"
Good Lord. He's mentally ill. He's clearly incapable of understanding that what he says is what he says.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Kraken » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:23 pm

malchior wrote:I would hate to be in Seoul if this all kicks off. With the South Korean political chaos I can't help but think this might be beyond our CEO government. Especially since we have accounts they don't use the existing institutional knowledge with wisdom.
Kinda puts Trump's proposed military buildup in context, doesn't it? From a nativist point of view it makes sense to strike before NK can mount warheads on long-range missiles, which they're openly working toward. Sorry, Japan and SK, but America first!

Now that our leader is as crazy as NK's, that threat has teeth.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:18 am

Holman wrote:Trump denies responsibility for his own accusation that the British spied on him, blames Fox News.
"We said nothing. All we did was quote a certain, very talented legal mind who was the one responsible for saying that on television," Trump responded. "I didn't make an opinion on it. That was a statement made by a very talented lawyer on Fox. And so you shouldn't be talking to me. You should be talking to Fox. Okay?"
Good Lord. He's mentally ill. He's clearly incapable of understanding that what he says is what he says.
And for those following along:

Early reports were that the administration had apologized to the British, but this later had to be revised because all we actually did was promise not to repeat the insult.

In the above quote you can see Trump taking a further step back from apology by denying that he said what he said, then shifting blame to a minion.

We've given nukes to a petulant toddler.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Enough » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:31 pm

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 8339612673

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 6283723776
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:28 pm

Still beating the drum that not meeting their military spending agreement is somehow money owed to us, I see.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Blackhawk » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:40 pm

Um, Donny baby? We didn't hear it from the fake news. We saw the footage first hand. Sorry.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by tgb » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:59 pm

Blackhawk wrote:Um, Donny baby? We didn't hear it from the fake news. We saw the footage first hand. Sorry.
We saw footage of the faked moon landing, too. :ninja:
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Zarathud » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:32 pm

Did Trump ask Merkel for war reparations for World War II and the Cold War?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:33 pm

Reuters
German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen on Sunday rejected U.S. President Donald Trump's claim that Germany owes NATO and the United States "vast sums" of money for defense.

"There is no debt account at NATO," von der Leyen said in a statement, adding that it was wrong to link the alliance's target for members to spend 2 percent of their economic output on defense by 2024 solely to NATO.

"Defense spending also goes into UN peacekeeping missions, into our European missions and into our contribution to the fight against IS terrorism," von der Leyen said.

She said everyone wanted the burden to be shared fairly and for that to happen it was necessary to have a "modern security concept" that included a modern NATO but also a European defense union and investment in the United Nations.
...
German defense spending is set to rise by 1.4 billion euros to 38.5 billion euros in 2018 - a figure that is projected to represent 1.26 percent of economic output, Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble has said.

In 2016, Germany's defense spending ratio stood at 1.18 percent.

During her trip to Washington, Merkel reiterated Germany's commitment to the 2 percent military spending goal.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by gameoverman » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:36 pm

In terms of foreign policy, I think a large portion of the US population believes that at least from the end of WWII until this year, the US has tried the "can't we all get along?" approach. It hasn't worked, in so far as the big things that keep flaring up, keep flaring up. In the Middle East, no solutions found to this day. With North Korea? No solutions found. So the feeling is that wimp diplomacy has failed.

Then after decades of foreign policy same old, same old, a guy like Trump gets elected. What's he's done so far is completely consistent with what he presented during his campaign. For this reason, I would take what he says seriously, I don't think he's bluffing or trying some kind of reverse psychology. When he says a military response to something is on the table, a military response to something is on the table. Even if that table is in North Korea. All the people who voted for him wanted this, they wanted a President who would get tough with everyone, friend and foe alike.

So now we are all going to get to see first hand if the 'tough love' approach works or turns out to be a disaster.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by RunningMn9 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:24 pm

gameoverman wrote:It hasn't worked
This is why I'm convinced that the Average Joe in the US is a complete fucking idiot with no knowledge or awareness of history.

It has worked magnificently. It's why it's even known as the friggin Pax Americana. Islamic terrorism is only a big deal in the context of decades of relative peace. It's literally *nothing* compared to actual world wars.

Edit to add: I should be clear that I'm referring to the perspective of Americans. The victims of a variety of genocides that have happened since the end of WW2 would obviously disagree with that characterization.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:38 pm

If you live in the First World, you're living in the longest peacetime in the history of civilization, and you're probably enjoying the world's highest standard of living while doing it.

So, yeah, that definitely seems like something we'd want to blow to pieces because the POTUS is a thin-skinned narcissist, his spiritual adviser is a fascist ideologue, and the rest of the GOP values this year's tax cuts more than the future of the human race.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Max Peck » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:37 am

Donald Trump printed out made-up £300bn Nato invoice and handed it to Angela Merkel
Angela Merkel will reportedly ignore Donald Trump’s attempts to extricate £300bn from Germany for what he deems to be owed contributions to Nato.

The US President is said to have had an 'invoice' printed out outlining the sum estimated by his aides as covering Germany's unpaid contributions for defence.

Said to be presented during private talks in Washington, the move has been met with criticism from German and Nato officials.

While the figure presented to the Germans was not revealed by either side, Nato countries pledged in 2014 to spend two per cent of their GDP on defence, something only a handful of nations – including the UK, Greece, Poland and Estonia – currently do.

But the bill has been backdated even further to 2002, the year Mrs Merkel’s predecessor, Gerhard Schröder, pledged to spend more on defence.

Mr Trump reportedly instructed aides to calculate how much German spending fell below two per cent over the past 12 years, then added interest.

Estimates suggest the total came to £300bn, with official figures citing the shortfall to be around £250bn, and with £50bn in interest added on.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:07 pm

He really is a petulant child that still thinks he's dealing from a position of personal strength with no accountability.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by $iljanus » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:15 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:He really is a petulant child that still thinks he's dealing from a position of personal strength with no accountability.
And he's solely concerned with domestic politics when he pulls stunts like this. In my opinion that's his only motivation for everything anyway. He's a showman but is that so surprising with his casinos, beauty pageants and TV show? With every leader there is something they have to throw to their citizens but this is just amateur hour with this asshat.
Last edited by $iljanus on Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Skinypupy » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:21 pm

Me as I read that headline, "That has to be hyperbole. There's no way he would have actually printed up an actual invoice and...

Oh, god dammit."
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Smoove_B » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:09 pm

Well the handshake video certainly makes even more sense now.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:10 pm

Based on an extremely quick Google image search, I can confidently say that, other than Theresa May and Clinton during the debates, Trump never shakes hands women.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by $iljanus » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:30 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:Based on an extremely quick Google image search, I can confidently say that, other than Theresa May and Clinton during the debates, Trump never shakes hands women.
It's pussy or bust for The Donald!
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by hepcat » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:39 pm

Merkel should show up at the White House with a giant novelty check for Umpteen Million Dollars, and written out to Tiny Hands McDickless.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by $iljanus » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:12 pm

hepcat wrote:Merkel should show up at the White House with a giant novelty check for Umpteen Million Dollars, and written out to Tiny Hands McDickless.
Or bags and bags of Monopoly money which are the perfect size for Tiny Hands. The President of Mexico can also use the same currency to pay for the wall.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:24 pm

Weird gaffe after weird gaffe masks the more basic problem that there is now no one our allies can talk to.

Trump is vapid and erratic, and Tillerson seems more and more like an empty suit presiding over the vacancy of his own department. Mattis is the only adult in the White House, but liberal democracies require that diplomacy and defense are separate channels.

If Trump were actively aiming to weaken our alliances and diminish U.S. leadership in the world, what would he do that he isn't already doing?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by hepcat » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:53 pm

Putin's definitely getting a lot of bang for his buck.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:09 pm

More soft-power costs of Trump's policies: I just saw that major U.S. universities are reporting something like a 40% drop in applications from foreign students.

Nativists will no doubt cheer that news, but our education system is a huge part of the infrastructure of U.S. influence around the globe. It matters a lot that the educated classes in other countries view the U.S. favorably, and Trump seems to be trashing that almost overnight.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Carpet_pissr » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:38 pm

Not to mention the returns we get as a country from the top minds that we attract, that stay here and work after they graduate.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Scoop20906 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:46 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Well the handshake video certainly makes even more sense now.
Just like any successful business genius would handle things.


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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Carpet_pissr » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:54 pm

Or a petulant, pouting pre-teen (ask me how I know).

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Paingod » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:45 am

$iljanus wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:He really is a petulant child that still thinks he's dealing from a position of personal strength with no accountability.
And he's solely concerned with domestic politics his image when he pulls stunts like this. In my opinion that's his only motivation for everything anyway. He's a showman but is that so surprising with his casinos, beauty pageants and TV show? With every leader there is something they have to throw to their citizens but this is just amateur hour with this asshat.
FTFY. In no way is he a politician with political motives.

The only thing that might save North Korea from him is that he lives in an imaginary fantasy world that no one else can see.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Pyperkub » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:59 am

Max Peck wrote:Donald Trump printed out made-up £300bn Nato invoice and handed it to Angela Merkel
Angela Merkel will reportedly ignore Donald Trump’s attempts to extricate £300bn from Germany for what he deems to be owed contributions to Nato.

The US President is said to have had an 'invoice' printed out outlining the sum estimated by his aides as covering Germany's unpaid contributions for defence.

Said to be presented during private talks in Washington, the move has been met with criticism from German and Nato officials.

While the figure presented to the Germans was not revealed by either side, Nato countries pledged in 2014 to spend two per cent of their GDP on defence, something only a handful of nations – including the UK, Greece, Poland and Estonia – currently do.

But the bill has been backdated even further to 2002, the year Mrs Merkel’s predecessor, Gerhard Schröder, pledged to spend more on defence.

Mr Trump reportedly instructed aides to calculate how much German spending fell below two per cent over the past 12 years, then added interest.

Estimates suggest the total came to £300bn, with official figures citing the shortfall to be around £250bn, and with £50bn in interest added on.
I think he wants Germany to pay for the wall now.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Paingod » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:10 am

What a complete dick move. While I'm sure there's political motivations behind whoever told him Germany owed us money, giving Trump an invoice to hand her was just not a polite way to say it.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by $iljanus » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:16 am

Paingod wrote:What a complete dick move. While I'm sure there's political motivations behind whoever told him Germany owed us money, giving Trump an invoice to hand her was just not a polite way to say it.
Red meat for the consumption of the American people in this new horror of a reality show in our government.

He's a straight shooter! America first! Telling 'em like it is!

Are we not entertained?
tl;dr

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