The Trump foreign policy thread

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Carpet_pissr
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Holman wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:37 pm
Kraken wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:08 pm Putin's not going to like that.
Oh, I think he likes it.

Deng has been romantically linked to Tony Blair as well.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LordMortis »

Trying to source that for more information and the only picture I can find of the two of them is a fake and sourcing seems to come from Occupy Democrats as best I can tell. That scores 0 on the credibility scale. If you find better corroboration, I'm all ears that's absolutely damning.

I almost went out and circulated disgust based on that story as well. Shame on me.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Which, the Jared or the Putin article?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

LordMortis wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:53 pm Trying to source that for more information and the only picture I can find of the two of them is a fake and sourcing seems to come from Occupy Democrats as best I can tell. That scores 0 on the credibility scale. If you find better corroboration, I'm all ears that's absolutely damning.

I almost went out and circulated disgust based on that story as well. Shame on me.
Oops, yeah. My bad. Just noticed that's from "Us Weekly". :/

/me shakes fist at Holman
Last edited by Carpet_pissr on Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by GreenGoo »

I'll just point out that Rupert Murdoch is 86 years old and Kushner is 37 years old this year.

I'm aware that age becomes less important the more you age, but what in the hell do an 86 year old and 37 year old have in common? What's the basis for this friendship? Again, I'm not starting a conspiracy or anything, I just find it very odd. Would Drumpf make a more reasonable friendship match to Murdoch? Too many swinging dicks in the room, maybe?

I find it weird, that's all.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LordMortis »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:55 pm Which, the Jared or the Putin article?
Putin and Deng dating.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LordMortis »

GreenGoo wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:55 pm I'll just point out that Rupert Murdoch is 86 years old and Kushner is 37 years old this year.

I'm aware that age becomes less important the more you age, but what in the hell do an 86 year old and 37 year old have in common? What's the basis for this friendship? Again, I'm not starting a conspiracy or anything, I just find it very odd. Would Drumpf make a more reasonable friendship match to Murdoch? Too many swinging dicks in the room, maybe?

I find it weird, that's all.
According to the Internet Deng introduced Kushner to Trump. So they have Deng in common.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

Sorry--I didn't intend to present the Putin and Deng story as world-shakingly serious.

All the coverage I've seen is just internet rumor presented as amusing, not as signs of espionage. But you can find mention of the rumor in Vanity Fair, at least.

Apparently her dating Tony Blair was a real thing, though.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

LordMortis wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:57 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:55 pm I'll just point out that Rupert Murdoch is 86 years old and Kushner is 37 years old this year.

I'm aware that age becomes less important the more you age, but what in the hell do an 86 year old and 37 year old have in common? What's the basis for this friendship? Again, I'm not starting a conspiracy or anything, I just find it very odd. Would Drumpf make a more reasonable friendship match to Murdoch? Too many swinging dicks in the room, maybe?

I find it weird, that's all.
According to the Internet Deng introduced Kushner to Trump. So they have Deng in common.
To... Ivanka Trump?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by GreenGoo »

Holman wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:06 pm To... Ivanka Trump?
Presumably.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo »

Trump administration withholds funding for UN Palestinian refugee agency.

This is one of those issues where there are definitely valid criticisms of UNRWA, and I wouldn't automatically be opposed to some kind of move along these lines, but where I really don't trust the Trump administration to carefully balance the issues involved.

Also apparently Haley wanted to hold back all of the funding, not just some (half) of it.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LordMortis »

GreenGoo wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:18 pm
Holman wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:06 pm To... Ivanka Trump?
Presumably.
Yes... My searches on the dating Putin thing, for example

https://www.snopes.com/ivanka-trump-wit ... i-murdoch/

https://www.snopes.com/2016/08/15/ivank ... endi-deng/
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Zarathud »

GreenGoo wrote:I'm aware that age becomes less important the more you age, but what in the hell do an 86 year old and 37 year old have in common? What's the basis for this friendship?
Desire for money and power. Fertile ground for gold diggers and spies alike.
GreenGoo wrote:I find it weird, that's all.
Not weird at all. Ask Hefner about it.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by GreenGoo »

Zarathud wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:15 pm
GreenGoo wrote:I'm aware that age becomes less important the more you age, but what in the hell do an 86 year old and 37 year old have in common? What's the basis for this friendship?
Desire for money and power. Fertile ground for gold diggers and spies alike.
GreenGoo wrote:I find it weird, that's all.
Not weird at all. Ask Hefner about it.
Wait, are Murdoch and Kushner gay? What would Hefner know about friendships with men more than 1/2 a century younger than him?

Maybe you missed the first line I wrote, which made it clear I was talking about Kushner and Murdoch? Or maybe I'm missing your point.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Zarathud »

In both situations, the old guy gets his ego fluffed by the younger one. Wasn't it clear to you that Kushner was the wanker?

Image
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by GreenGoo »

No. It's still not clear to me. You're telling me that Murdoch is friends with a dude 50 years younger than him because the dude says nice things to him?

I mean, anything is possible I guess.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Rip »

Perhaps he just liked the cut of his jib.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by GreenGoo »

Jib cuts were all the rage back during the depression when Murdoch was born. His parents must have learnt him that.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Moliere »

Image
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by GreenGoo »

Makes you wonder what made jib cuts so popular, especially during the depression.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:41 pm Makes you wonder what made jib cuts so popular, especially during the depression.
Well, most people couldn't afford a full jib at that time, so they had to cut them up and divide them between several people.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by wonderpug »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:41 pm Makes you wonder what made jib cuts so popular, especially during the depression.
Penises were triangle shaped back then, so "I like the cut of your jib" was a way to compliment someone on a really well done circumcision.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Sepiche »

This Vox writeup on Turkey's invasion of Syria is a great example of why the Drumpf administration's shoot from the hip foreign policy is dangerous and counterproductive. Had any of this been run through career diplomats with the State Department it might have been pulled off, instead we angered Turkey and they acted.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/1/23/169 ... rds-russia
Ankara believes the Syrian Kurds are deeply tied to a Turkish Kurdish group that has waged a bloody fight for autonomy from Turkey since the late 1970s. Turkey and the United States label that group, known as the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK, as a terrorist group.

But the Syrian Kurds have been an effective force in the fight against ISIS, garnering great support in Washington. The Obama administration considered arming the militia in 2016. And in May 2017, President Donald Trump announced that the US would arm the Syrian Kurds over Turkey’s objections.

Shortly after the announcement, Turkish officials told the Trump administration behind closed doors that it would attack the Kurds. However, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoǧan didn’t order a strike at that time — though he warned for months that one might be imminent.

The US made matters worse with its two recent announcements: the training of the Kurdish border force and the decision to keep US troops in Syria with no withdrawal date. As Jeffrey told me, the Trump administration failed to coordinate both moves with Ankara. That blindsided, and therefore further angered, Turkish officials.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson tried to assuage Turkey’s fears about the border force, claiming, “We are not creating a border security force at all” during an interview with reporters.

Erdoǧan doesn’t buy that, and has threatened further action. “Turkey will suffocate this terror army before it’s born,” Erdogan said on January 14. “Our preparations have been completed. The operation is due to start any moment. After that, other regions will follow.” And on January 18, just one day after Tillerson’s speech — Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said the Turkish military would continue its preparations for an attack.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LordMortis »

Wait just a damned minute. I swear to pancake that I just saw that Trump solved Syria, whatever that means.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Raw Story
Daniel Seidemann, an Israeli attorney who founded the Jerusalem-based NGO Terrestrial Jerusalem, is slamming Vice President Mike Pence for treating his city like an “end-of-days Biblical theme park.”

Writing on Twitter, Seidemann points out that Pence did not visit with any members of Jerusalem’s Christian community during his trip to the Middle East this week — and it’s primarily because those leaders are Palestinians. This is especially ironic, Seidemann writes, because Pence is widely known for being a devout Christian.

“The most uber-Christian national leader the US has ever known can’t get meetings with Holy Land Christians of ANY denomination,” he says. “He did not visit…
one Christian site [or] one Muslim site. He saw nothing of Palestinian Jerusalem.”
...
“The Jerusalem that Pence visited does not exist, but rather an ‘end-of-days’ Biblical theme park version of the city,” he explains. “The pageant Jerusalem and the world witnessed during the Pence visit was a meeting between a prominent leader of the ‘end-of-days’ evangelical cult and its Israeli sister settler cult — cults that now dominate the governance of their respective countries. That’s not Jerusalem.”
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

I believe I read that leaders of all 18 Christian denominations in Bethlehem refused the meeting.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Pence
Vice-President Mike Pence is due to attend the Winter Olympics in South Korea next month, a visit that has a double goal: cheering on Team U.S.A. and preventing North Korea propaganda from “hijacking” the Winter Olympic Games in Pyeongchang, a White House official said Tuesday.

Pence appears to share experts’ concerns that North Korean leader Kim Jong Un’s decision to send a delegation to the sporting event is part of a ploy to legitimize his regime. “He has grave concerns that Kim will hijack the messaging around the Olympics,” the official said, speaking to reporters on conditions of anonymity from the Air Force One flight returning the vice-president to the U.S. from his Middle East trip, as quoted by Reuters.
...
Pence’s February trip will also include a stop in Alaska to review ballistic missile defense facilities and in Japan, where he is due to meet Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. Abe has announced he will also be attending the games’ opening ceremony and will be discussing “maximizing pressure on North Korea” with South Korean President Moon Jae-in, according to Japanese news agency Kyodo.

Seoul believes that dialogue with Pyongyang on the Olympic Games can open up opportunity for talks on the country's nuclear and missile development program. "Now is the best time, as the U.S. opens its door for talks," a South Korean diplomatic official told reporters, on condition of anonymity, according to the Yonhap news agency, adding: "The U.S. could close the door shut anytime. It is important for the North to stop provocations and come out for talks."
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by The Meal »

Hope no US athletes kneel at the anthem and Pence has to walk out.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Remus West »

The Meal wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:18 am Hope no US athletes kneel at the anthem and Pence has to walk out.
I would be so happy if every one of them knelt.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Max Peck »

Trump reveals his plan for peace in the Middle-East.
US President Donald Trump has threatened to halt aid to the Palestinians if they do not agree to take part in peace talks.

The state department confirmed he was talking about aid for economic and security assistance.

Mr Trump accused the Palestinians of "disrespecting" the US, and said: "Why should we do something for them when they do nothing for us?"

The Palestinians have rejected the US as a neutral broker in peace talks.

They are furious at Washington's controversial decision in December to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

Former Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said of the US president's latest comments: "Trump could buy many things with his money, but he won't be able to buy the dignity of our nation."

Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos in Switzerland, Mr Trump said the US gives the Palestinians "hundreds of millions of dollars in aid and support" a year.

He chastised the Palestinian leadership for "disrespecting... our great Vice-President" Mike Pence by refusing to meet with him in the region earlier in the week.

And he said he was the first US president to link the issue of aid funding to the peace process.

"That money is on the table and it's not going to them unless they sit down and negotiate peace," he said, sitting beside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

"I can tell you that Israel does want to make peace and they're [the Palestinians] going to have to want to make peace too or we're going to have nothing to do with it any longer."
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Respect is earned. Trump hasn't earned any.

Obeisance on the other hand...
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Trump pulled its planned ambassador nominee to South Korea, apparently because the nominee expressed opposition to a strike on North Korea.
But the administration’s rejection of Victor Cha is a different story. For months, Cha had been preparing to become America’s next ambassador to South Korea. A former director of Asia policy in the George W. Bush administration, Cha is widely respected in Seoul, and widely regarded as a “hawk” on foreign-policy questions in Washington. In December, the White House formally notified the South Korean government that Trump would ask the Senate to confirm Cha to the ambassadorship.

Less than two months later, Cha is no longer under consideration for the post. The White House has leaked word that the reversal was caused by a “red flag” in Cha’s background. But this explanation is difficult to reconcile with the timing of the move: When the administration informed Seoul that Cha was its man, the White House had already been vetting the ambassador for months.

Cha’s close associates tell a simpler — and scarier — story: The Korea expert told the administration that its plan to launch a limited, “bloody nose” strike against the Kim Jong-un regime was strategically incoherent, and likely to get tens of thousands of people killed — and the White House promptly lost interest in having him around. As the Washington Post reports:

Two people who know Cha suggested Trump aides had second thoughts on his nomination over policy disagreements with him concerning how to respond to North Korea’s nuclear and ballistic missile testing. Cha had forwarded articles to the NSC about the risks of a preemptive U.S. strike, and his colleagues at CSIS, including another former Bush administration official, Michael Green, had published their own analyses warning against such a strategy.

Cha appeared to tacitly confirm this account Tuesday night, when he took the unusual step of publishing a Washington Post op-ed imploring the administration to reconsider its approach to North Korea. In that column, Cha made quick work of the logical contortions the White House must perform to reach the conclusion that the way to stop nuclear proliferation on the Korean peninsula is to drop a couple missiles on Pyongyang:
We should probably be raising our estimates of the chances of a nuclear war with North Korea.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Remus West »

I can't. I already have mine set at "any day now".
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by pr0ner »

Remus West wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:25 pm I can't. I already have mine set at "any day now".
I can't imagine living life that way. And I live outside of DC!
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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El Guapo wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:30 pm Trump pulled its planned ambassador nominee to South Korea, apparently because the nominee expressed opposition to a strike on North Korea.
But the administration’s rejection of Victor Cha is a different story. For months, Cha had been preparing to become America’s next ambassador to South Korea. A former director of Asia policy in the George W. Bush administration, Cha is widely respected in Seoul, and widely regarded as a “hawk” on foreign-policy questions in Washington. In December, the White House formally notified the South Korean government that Trump would ask the Senate to confirm Cha to the ambassadorship.

Less than two months later, Cha is no longer under consideration for the post. The White House has leaked word that the reversal was caused by a “red flag” in Cha’s background. But this explanation is difficult to reconcile with the timing of the move: When the administration informed Seoul that Cha was its man, the White House had already been vetting the ambassador for months.

Cha’s close associates tell a simpler — and scarier — story: The Korea expert told the administration that its plan to launch a limited, “bloody nose” strike against the Kim Jong-un regime was strategically incoherent, and likely to get tens of thousands of people killed — and the White House promptly lost interest in having him around. As the Washington Post reports:

Two people who know Cha suggested Trump aides had second thoughts on his nomination over policy disagreements with him concerning how to respond to North Korea’s nuclear and ballistic missile testing. Cha had forwarded articles to the NSC about the risks of a preemptive U.S. strike, and his colleagues at CSIS, including another former Bush administration official, Michael Green, had published their own analyses warning against such a strategy.

Cha appeared to tacitly confirm this account Tuesday night, when he took the unusual step of publishing a Washington Post op-ed imploring the administration to reconsider its approach to North Korea. In that column, Cha made quick work of the logical contortions the White House must perform to reach the conclusion that the way to stop nuclear proliferation on the Korean peninsula is to drop a couple missiles on Pyongyang:
We should probably be raising our estimates of the chances of a nuclear war with North Korea.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo »

Kraken wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:53 pm
El Guapo wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:30 pm Trump pulled its planned ambassador nominee to South Korea, apparently because the nominee expressed opposition to a strike on North Korea.
But the administration’s rejection of Victor Cha is a different story. For months, Cha had been preparing to become America’s next ambassador to South Korea. A former director of Asia policy in the George W. Bush administration, Cha is widely respected in Seoul, and widely regarded as a “hawk” on foreign-policy questions in Washington. In December, the White House formally notified the South Korean government that Trump would ask the Senate to confirm Cha to the ambassadorship.

Less than two months later, Cha is no longer under consideration for the post. The White House has leaked word that the reversal was caused by a “red flag” in Cha’s background. But this explanation is difficult to reconcile with the timing of the move: When the administration informed Seoul that Cha was its man, the White House had already been vetting the ambassador for months.

Cha’s close associates tell a simpler — and scarier — story: The Korea expert told the administration that its plan to launch a limited, “bloody nose” strike against the Kim Jong-un regime was strategically incoherent, and likely to get tens of thousands of people killed — and the White House promptly lost interest in having him around. As the Washington Post reports:

Two people who know Cha suggested Trump aides had second thoughts on his nomination over policy disagreements with him concerning how to respond to North Korea’s nuclear and ballistic missile testing. Cha had forwarded articles to the NSC about the risks of a preemptive U.S. strike, and his colleagues at CSIS, including another former Bush administration official, Michael Green, had published their own analyses warning against such a strategy.

Cha appeared to tacitly confirm this account Tuesday night, when he took the unusual step of publishing a Washington Post op-ed imploring the administration to reconsider its approach to North Korea. In that column, Cha made quick work of the logical contortions the White House must perform to reach the conclusion that the way to stop nuclear proliferation on the Korean peninsula is to drop a couple missiles on Pyongyang:
We should probably be raising our estimates of the chances of a nuclear war with North Korea.
Two minutes til midnight

The UCS believes that the peril is higher than it has been since 1953.
On the plus side, nuclear war with North Korea is unlikely to be world ending - "only" like a couple million-ish dead.

pr0ner's probably screwed, though.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Remus West »

pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:38 pm
Remus West wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:25 pm I can't. I already have mine set at "any day now".
I can't imagine living life that way. And I live outside of DC!
I'm depressed a lot lately. I try not to envision the world I'll be leaving to my daughter in large part thanks to the asshattery going on in DC.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Vorret »

I'd like to think someone smart would say "uhhh, no." if Trump decided to nuke NK.
I mean it's not like he can simply press a button on his desk and woopeedoo nukes are off.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by pr0ner »

Remus West wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:22 pm
pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:38 pm
Remus West wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:25 pm I can't. I already have mine set at "any day now".
I can't imagine living life that way. And I live outside of DC!
I'm depressed a lot lately. I try not to envision the world I'll be leaving to my daughter in large part thanks to the asshattery going on in DC.
Yeah, I understand that. There's a lot of people who are depressed by all the insanity going on. But I've decided that there's no reason to let myself get brought down by all the shenanigans - I'd miss out on too much good that's still around.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo »

Vorret wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:07 pm I'd like to think someone smart would say "uhhh, no." if Trump decided to nuke NK.
I mean it's not like he can simply press a button on his desk and woopeedoo nukes are off.
He (probably) wouldn't *nuke* North Korea. He might well decide to launch conventional strikes against North Korea, to which North Korea responds, and it all escalates from there.

But the President ordering military action and the military refusing to execute it is not really a great outcome, either.
Black Lives Matter.
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