The Trump foreign policy thread

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:47 pm

Trump's Twitter: While I greatly appreciate the efforts of President Xi & China to help with North Korea, it has not worked out. At least I know China tried!

Translation: "NK is still NK, but Ivanka and I got the Chinese patents we wanted."

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:09 pm

Yup, China is getting good milage for letting Trump have his trademarks.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:13 pm

It's pronounced 'Gyyna'.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:57 pm

That tweet reads to me like, "well, they tried. Time to blow some stuff up!"

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:48 pm

Present at the Destruction: How Rex Tillerson Is Wrecking the State Department

This is how diplomacy dies. Not with a bang, but with a whimper. With empty offices on a midweek afternoon.

When Rex Tillerson was announced as secretary of state, there was a general feeling of excitement and relief in the department. After eight years of high-profile, jet-setting secretaries, the building was genuinely looking forward to having someone experienced in corporate management. Like all large, sprawling organizations, the State Department’s structure is in perpetual need of an organizational rethink. That was what was hoped for, but that is not what is happening. Tillerson is not reorganizing, he’s downsizing.

While the lack of senior political appointees has gotten a lot of attention, less attention has been paid to the hollowing out of the career workforce, who actually run the department day to day. Tillerson has canceled the incoming class of foreign service officers. This as if the Navy told all of its incoming Naval Academy officers they weren’t needed. Senior officers have been unceremoniously pushed out. Many saw the writing on the wall and just retired, and many others are now awaiting buyout offers. He has dismissed State’s equivalent of an officer reserve—retired FSOs, who are often called upon to fill State’s many short-term staffing gaps, have been sent home despite no one to replace them. Office managers are now told three people must depart before they can make one hire. And now Bloomberg reports that Tillerson is blocking all lateral transfers within the department, preventing staffers from moving to another office even if it has an opening. Managers can’t fill openings; employees feel trapped.

This is after 5 months. One wonders what will remain after 4 years.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:53 pm

Tillerson, though, is blaming the WH in general and Jared Kushner in particular for the fact that he has no clout in his own department.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:25 pm

gilraen wrote:Tillerson, though, is blaming the WH in general and Jared Kushner in particular for the fact that he has no clout in his own department.

As I understand it, it isn't so much that he lacks clout in his own department but that the White House is simply bypassing State. However the rapid rate at which the State Department appears to be shedding institutional knowledge seems to be on Tillerson himself.

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:43 am

gilraen wrote:Tillerson, though, is blaming the WH in general and Jared Kushner in particular for the fact that he has no clout in his own department.

I didn't finish the story, but it seems to put a spin on Trump castrating the state department on the employee. I've heard several times in the last 48 hours that Tillerson has repeatedly made moves only to have them countermanded by OG-KUSH, backed by Trump.

I don't like Tillerson. But that article seems to suggest that it's the Assistant managervs fault that the store is broken when the executive refuses to hire more than one employee, while his non-.experienced son micromanages

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Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:18 pm

More of that n-dimensional chess...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7900718081

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 2081512449

North Korea has just launched another missile. Does this guy have anything better to do with his life? Hard to believe that South Korea...
...and Japan will put up with this much longer. Perhaps China will put a heavy move on North Korea and end this nonsense once and for all!

President Trump, making empty blathering and buck-passing great again!

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:48 pm

In Trump's defense -- words that I write with trepidation -- NK really is China's client state, and any realistic action depends on China. Whether twitter-shaming is real diplomacy is another matter.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:26 pm

Kraken wrote:In Trump's defense -- words that I write with trepidation -- NK really is China's client state, and any realistic action depends on China. Whether twitter-shaming is real diplomacy is another matter.

The problem is that he has repeatedly demonstrated that he's all hat and no cattle. After all the tough talk, the only thing he's actually done is passive-agressively hope that China (or Russia) will do something.

The real diplomacy will be when he makes a deal with China to cede the South China Sea in return for them taking the lead on the Nork problem. Then they'll still do nothing substantial until he backs off on support for South Korea. China's been playing him from day one, and all it's really cost them so far is a few Trump trademark concessions.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:20 pm

Apparently that NK missile was an ICBM with the capability of hitting all of Alaska.

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:26 pm

pr0ner wrote:Apparently that NK missile was an ICBM with the capability of hitting all of Alaska.

Trump: I hope China does something. And in this case "hope" has zero imperative intention.

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Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:12 am

Max Peck wrote: China's been playing him from day one, and all it's really cost them so far is a few Trump trademark concessions.

Trump's diplomacy has been top-notch. Those trademarks are serious money.

We're the ones being played.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:38 am

pr0ner wrote:Apparently that NK missile was an ICBM with the capability of hitting all of Alaska.

Unpossible!

On a serious note, big time fuck up. No surprise.
Missile test underscores the failure of Trump’s naive approach to North Korea

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:11 am

Trump truly doesn't understand nuclear deterrence.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:15 am

Holman wrote:
Max Peck wrote: China's been playing him from day one, and all it's really cost them so far is a few Trump trademark concessions.
Trump's diplomacy self-enrichment has been top-notch. Those trademarks are serious money.

We're the ones being played.

FTFY

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:21 am

pr0ner wrote:Apparently that NK missile was an ICBM with the capability of hitting all of Alaska.

I misread this last night. I thought you meant it ironically as "hitting merely Alaska" but today I'm seeing the phrase used everywhere as meaning "hitting the totality of Alaska."

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:32 am

Trump is in Poland as guest of a government that has taken a despicable authoritarian turn: attacking critics, seizing media outlets, stoking conspiracy theories, and stirring up ethnic nationalism. Reliable crowds were bused in to clap for him, Potemkin-style, since actual Warsaw crowds would have booed him. (Trump's approval in Poland is something like 23%.)

At a formal press conference on foreign soil, the POTUS sidestepped criticism of Russian election meddling (here and in Europe) but continued to complain about NATO allies, denigrate his own domestic opponents, and attack U.S. media as "Fake News."

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:47 am

Rachel Maddow on her show yesterday did a very interesting story about the current (right-wing) ruling party in Poland, and how it all ties into the Republican presidential primary and possibly more Russian interference in Poland 2 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr2T5ra3LAY (this is the whole episode, the story is the first 16 minutes or so)

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:32 am

That's a fascinating listen. I'm only about 20 minutes into it, but she's outlined the rapid and staggering process of Poland slipping into an authoritarian government. The floundering party blamed Russia, and if Russia was behind what happened, it's impressive and frightening.

Step 1: Bug restaurants politicians visit.
Step 2: Create a Scandal!
Step 3: Steal government document covering efforts on scandal.
Step 4: Release document to public, EXPLOSIVE SCANDAL!
Step 5: Vast swath of ruling democratic party resign or get fired over contents of recordings.
Step 6: Nationalist party in place.
Step 7: Nationalist party replaces other sections of government with its own people, or shuts down opposing branches.
Step 8: Profit!

It seems steps 1 through 5 may vary, but disrupting "soft" political atmospheres seems too easy for Russia.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:41 am

How the hell did Poland get subverted by Russia and no one noticed?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:46 am

Paingod wrote:It seems steps 1 through 5 may vary, but disrupting "soft" political atmospheres seems too easy for Russia.

People want sausage but don't want to know what is in it. I think a reasonable definition of a good politician is a person who is in many ways a slimy broker who delivers what the big players want offset against the things that keep ordinary people from becoming too angry.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:48 am

Zarathud wrote:How the hell did Poland get subverted by Russia and no one noticed?

I guess we forgot Poland.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:30 pm

Defiant wrote:
Zarathud wrote:How the hell did Poland get subverted by Russia and no one noticed?
I guess we forgot Poland.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:17 pm

Zarathud wrote:How the hell did Poland get subverted by Russia and no one noticed?

Because of there's one thing Russia is good at it's this kind of shit. While The West had mostly moved on from this particular brand of espionage/meddling, the Russians are perfecting it. Hell, it's happened in the States and no one can prove anything.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:41 pm

It's old, but it's also new. The open information economy makes democracies vulnerable to propaganda and misinformation like never before.

It would suck if the internet turned out to be the tool that destroyed liberal democracy.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Holman wrote:Trump is in Poland as guest of a government that has taken a despicable authoritarian turn: attacking critics, seizing media outlets, stoking conspiracy theories, and stirring up ethnic nationalism. Reliable crowds were bused in to clap for him, Potemkin-style, since actual Warsaw crowds would have booed him. (Trump's approval in Poland is something like 23%.)

At a formal press conference on foreign soil, the POTUS sidestepped criticism of Russian election meddling (here and in Europe) but continued to complain about NATO allies, denigrate his own domestic opponents, and attack U.S. media as "Fake News."

Holy fuck, I'm just reading excepts now and his speech today seems like straight-up, unapologetic white nationalism. When will the the media start calling this what it is? This sounds to me like something out of a Nuremberg rally. It's frightening.

https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/883153766597488641

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:07 pm

I mean...

https://twitter.com/heerjeet/status/883154589259878400

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:00 pm

Trump is meeting with Putin now.

He's so paranoid about leaks that he insisted on the smallest possible group: Putin, Trump, Tillerson, Sergey Lavrov, and two interpreters. No National Security adviser and no Russia specialists, and both Trump and Tillerson are complete neophytes at diplomacy.

The meeting was scheduled for 30 minutes and has gone on for 90 minutes already. No one believes Trump is driving the agenda.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:20 pm

Really, 90 minutes is the minimum time required to repeal and replace Trump with his Russian double. This one has gone off the rails for them, so it needs "fixing". They're good, but they're not THAT good.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:48 pm

Can you imagine the meltdown that'd be happening if Clinton was meeting Putin only accompanied by a guy who got the highest civilian honor the Russians reward someone with? After the Russians allegedly helped her with the election. This is pure bizarro land nonsense right now.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:14 pm

malchior wrote:Can you imagine the meltdown that'd be happening if Clinton was meeting Putin only accompanied by a guy who got the highest civilian honor the Russians reward someone with? After the Russians allegedly helped her with the election. This is pure bizarro land nonsense right now.

The meeting went on for over 2 hours. I hope we still own Alaska when this is all said and done.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:21 pm

Alaska?

There will be a joint news conference announcing the newly formed "Soviet States of Amerussia" at 4pm today. We ceded everything, Trump gets to be Obergruppenführer for life (or whatever the Russian equivalent of that is). Parades in his honor on a monthly basis, and "nice" state TV will only praise his glory, not ask tough questions like the current, mean, fake news corps.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:33 pm

Um, if this is accurate....

https://twitter.com/NeilMacFarquhar/sta ... 6322062336

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:40 pm

Did you expect something else from the puppet/"not a puppet"?

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:40 pm

Captain Caveman wrote:Um, if this is accurate....
https://twitter.com/NeilMacFarquhar/sta ... 6322062336

Whew glad that's cleared up. Saves us a lot of investigative time. #MAGA!

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:42 pm

Lavrov is a Russian diplomat, so I hope to hell that's just Russian spin and the Trump administration refutes it. Too bad there were few people there and no objective way to know the truth of what transpired (which is what I'm sure both Trump and Putin wanted).

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:11 pm

Captain Caveman wrote:Lavrov is a Russian diplomat, so I hope to hell that's just Russian spin and the Trump administration refutes it. Too bad there were few people there and no objective way to know the truth of what transpired (which is what I'm sure both Trump and Putin wanted).

Yeah...the Putin administration might be the one group I trust less than the Trump administration.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:48 pm

The Washington Post wrote:Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, who attended the two-hour-and-fifteen-minute meeting, said it did not focus on the United States moving to punish Russia for the allegations that it hacked and leaked information that would help Trump win the election. Instead, Tillerson said the two leaders discussed “how do we move forward from what may be simply an intractable disagreement at this point” regarding the election-hacking issue.

So it's starting to look like Trump "brought up" the election attack and Putin denied it, and that's it. Tillerson said that maybe we would discuss it again, but now it's time to move on.

It's hard to imagine how to make this look like a bigger win for Putin.