The Trump foreign policy thread

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:45 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:03 pm In my great and unmatched wisdom, I'm going to go make a ham sandwich for lunch.

If I was in the WH I'd imagine I'd look around and say who talks like this? Is it speak like an Egyptian pharaoh day?

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:51 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:31 pm Pardon my ignorance here, but why does a Senator from South Carolina have a vocal interest in what's going on in Syria? Is this a hot button issue in South Carolina and I just don't understand something as a NJ resident? To be clear, it's absolutely a BFD, but I'm confused at his sudden concern (for this). Does he serve on some committee I'm not connecting to this?

Various senators have various interests. Some are interested in intelligence, others banking, others the environment, etc. Graham, when not being a Trump toady, has always had an interest in foreign policy.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:53 pm

I'm not surprised at all that Graham is opposed to this and is speaking out about it. I'm surprised at the vehemence with which he's speaking out about it.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:09 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:45 pm
Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:03 pm In my great and unmatched wisdom, I'm going to go make a ham sandwich for lunch.
If I was in the WH I'd imagine I'd look around and say who talks like this? Is it speak like an Egyptian pharaoh day?

To me it came across as the wizard from The Wizard of Oz.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:15 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:I'm surprised at the vehemence with which he's speaking out about it.

Graham only has two modes: sniveling syncophant or unhinged psychopath.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:40 pm

McConnell is apparently saying that he's upset too, and that a supermajority in the Senate is opposed to the Syria plans.

Of course, this is one area (foreign policy) where the President's power is pretty robust, so I'm not sure what McConnell plans to do about it. Still possible that this just means a tsk tsk resolution.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:41 pm

pr0ner wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:11 pm "Great and unmatched wisdom"

I always thought America was strong enough not to be led by a megalomaniac. I didn't realize just how weak, stupid, and immoral our underbelly was.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:44 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:27 pm CNN:
Sen. Lindsey Graham, one of President Donald Trump's strongest Republican defenders in Congress, blasted Trump Monday over his decision to remove US troops from northern Syria as Turkey plans a military offensive in the region, saying it was "shortsighted and irresponsible."

"This impulsive decision by the President has undone all the gains we've made, thrown the region into further chaos. Iran is licking their chops. And if I'm an ISIS fighter I've got a second lease on life. So to those who think ISIS has been defeated you will soon see," Graham said during an interview on Fox News' "Fox and Friends."

"I hope I'm making myself clear how shortsighted and irresponsible this decision is in my view," the South Carolina Republican added.
Now Lindsey Graham grows a spine?

Long answer: Until he does something other than run his mouth, no.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:46 pm

Alefroth wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:44 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:27 pm CNN:
Sen. Lindsey Graham, one of President Donald Trump's strongest Republican defenders in Congress, blasted Trump Monday over his decision to remove US troops from northern Syria as Turkey plans a military offensive in the region, saying it was "shortsighted and irresponsible."

"This impulsive decision by the President has undone all the gains we've made, thrown the region into further chaos. Iran is licking their chops. And if I'm an ISIS fighter I've got a second lease on life. So to those who think ISIS has been defeated you will soon see," Graham said during an interview on Fox News' "Fox and Friends."

"I hope I'm making myself clear how shortsighted and irresponsible this decision is in my view," the South Carolina Republican added.
Now Lindsey Graham grows a spine?
Long answer: Until he does something other than run his mouth, no.

^ This

GungHo · Post by **GungHo** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:55 pm

Alefroth wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:41 pm
pr0ner wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:11 pm "Great and unmatched wisdom"

I always thought America was strong enough not to be led by a megalomaniac. I didn't realize just how weak, stupid, and immoral our underbelly was.

Yeah. I mean we've used up all the adjectives by now but that tweet is absolutely bonkers

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:06 pm

Also - when has he previously destroyed Turkey's economy?

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:10 pm

El Guapo wrote:Also - when has he previously destroyed Turkey's economy?

Maybe he was talking about a turkey sandwich he recently had?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:14 pm

Donald Trump spent his formative years trying very, very hard to be a New York tough guy. He idolized the mobsters he came across in his business and family dealings. He even went so far as to cultivate both a business and personal relationship with infamous lawyer to Joseph McCarthy and numerous crime families, Roy Cohn. Trump is a cheap mob wannabe who really does think he's the toughest guy in the room, but who in reality has been laughed at his whole life by friends and other family members because of his frantic need to cover up his own sense of low self esteem with huge piles of bullshit and bravado. After his death, he will become once again the joke he deserves to be. A footnote in the ridiculous history of this country that simply reads, "whoops".

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:22 pm

pr0ner wrote:"Great and unmatched wisdom"

He's sounding a lot like those ISIS propaganda videos. Next time he should do a video from the Oval Office with two ass kissing aides or cabinet members in balaclavas flanking him.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:32 pm

The amount of outrage from the GOP over pulling out of Syria and leaving the Kurds to get massacred is pretty hefty. This may end up being Trump's undoing after all.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:45 pm

That was quick.

#BREAKING: Initial reports of a Turkish airstrike on the Kurdish-controlled Semelka border crossing between Syria and Iraq

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:46 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:45 pm That was quick.

#BREAKING: Initial reports of a Turkish airstrike on the Kurdish-controlled Semelka border crossing between Syria and Iraq

Have U.S. forces in the area even left yet?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:49 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:32 pm The amount of outrage from the GOP over pulling out of Syria and leaving the Kurds to get massacred is pretty hefty. This may end up being Trump's undoing after all.

It even forced Mitch McConnell to make a statement.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell urged the President "to exercise American leadership" and reverse his decision to remove US troops from northern Syria

A real profile in courage. EABOD McConnell.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:50 pm

If anyone was wondering what form the distraction from the impeachment talks would take, whelp...here ya go.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:08 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:45 pm That was quick.

#BREAKING: Initial reports of a Turkish airstrike on the Kurdish-controlled Semelka border crossing between Syria and Iraq

Erdogan is well aware of Trump's fickleness.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:10 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:50 pm If anyone was wondering what form the distraction from the impeachment talks would take, whelp...here ya go.

I dunno...this is an abrupt change in U.S. foreign policy that's opposed by bipartisan majorities following a conversation between Trump and a hostile foreign leader...kind of seems like a bad way to distract people from an impeachment scandal focused around corrupt conversations between Trump and foreign leaders.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:10 pm

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:44 pm

El Guapo wrote:

Needs more orange and he'll be perfect!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:50 pm

He's more Blob than Red Skull.

Possessing the mindset of a bully, he mostly uses his powers for petty crime

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:08 pm

"I'm the blubbernaut, bitch!"

In other news, I find it highly likely that Trump was indeed just rolled by Erdogan/Etrigan (I get 'em mixed up).

Trump folds faster than laundry, I'm beginning to suspect.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:39 pm

I thought the "great and unmatched wisdom" bit was photoshopped...nope. OMFG.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:45 pm

gilraen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:39 pm I thought the "great and unmatched wisdom" bit was photoshopped...nope. OMFG.

I thought even the Shrump Twit Storm, wouldn't have said that. But, POtuS one ups the Onion again.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:07 pm

Someone wheel him out of the offal office before he has a full blown conniption.

Yes I spelled that right.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:38 pm

You guys see where the Kurds have about 11,000 - 80,000 with family ISIS and Al-Qaeda prisoners who say they will kill Americans if they can get out?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:45 pm

The speed at which this all unfolded has to be unprecedented, right? I wonder what Turkey knows about Joe Biden that let them pull this off?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:01 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:45 pm The speed at which this all unfolded has to be unprecedented, right? I wonder what Turkey knows about Joe Biden that let them pull this off?

Per Newsweek's source, Trump got "rolled" by Turkey and was "spineless" in a call on Sunday afternoon. All I can imagine is that he thought bringing the troops home would be welcomed by Americans (and would grab control of a news cycle) even though it means setting up the Kurds for a massacre.

Donald Trump got "rolled" by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a National Security Council source with direct knowledge of the discussions told Newsweek.

In a scheduled phone call on Sunday afternoon between President Trump and President Erdogan, Trump said he would withdraw U.S. forces from northern Syria. The phone call was scheduled after Turkey announced it was planning to invade Syria, and hours after Erdogan reinforced his army units at the Syrian-Turkish border and issued his strongest threat to launch a military incursion, according to the National Security Council official to whom Newsweek spoke on condition of anonymity.

The U.S. withdrawal plays into the hands of the Islamic State group, Damascus and Moscow, and the announcement left Trump's own Defense Department "completely stunned," said Pentagon officials. Turkey, like the United States, wants regime change in Syria. Russia and Iran support the Assad regime.

"President Trump was definitely out-negotiated and only endorsed the troop withdraw to make it look like we are getting something—but we are not getting something," the National Security Council source told Newsweek. "The U.S. national security has entered a state of increased danger for decades to come because the president has no spine and that's the bottom line."

Erdogan knew there would be pushback from the Pentagon and Congress, so he moved quickly.

It is only a coincidence that today is Vladimir Putin's birthday.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:07 pm

Only the good die young. Seems pretty true. Why do assholes live so long?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:36 pm

I'm sorry but this is insanity. That this letter even exists is a massive foreign policy disaster. The country is being burned to the ground by this maniac. What does he have to do before the obvious is known? Everything he does aides Russia and hurts us and our allies. HE IS A RUSSIAN ASSET. Even if only accidentally.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:39 pm

I was just about to come in and share that. None of this makes any sense unless you seriously consider he's getting something from or being blackmailed by Russia. This is total insanity.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:00 pm

I would love to hear the GOP defend and/or try to articulate the reason for pulling out of that treaty.

I’m guessing that Putin sees the end is likely coming for his useful idiot, so he’s calling in all his favors while he can.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:51 pm

Just kidding, everyone!

A senior administration official on an organized call with reporters appeared to contradict President Donald Trump about Syria policy late Monday, refuting interpretations of his statements from earlier in the day that prompted broad outrage from supporters and opponents alike.

The U.S. is not removing its forces from Syria in the face of a Turkish incursion, said the official, speaking on the condition of anonymity. Rather, the president ordered roughly 50 special operations troops in northern Syria to relocate to a different part of the country after he learned that Turkey has planned an offensive against U.S.-backed Kurdish forces in Syria. The official said that offensive had not yet begun.

Oh, and FAKE NEWS!

The senior administration official did not address whether his comments represented a shift in White House policy following the massive backlash.

He did, however, refute claims that Trump did not first consult top officials at the departments of State and Defense – despite multiple news reports and confirmation from senior lawmakers that Trump's decision blindsided Foggy Bottom and the Pentagon.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:26 pm

And that walking pile of human shit that is Rand Paul just got finished vigorously defending Trump pulling out. Ah well, at least he knows he did his best to help his master.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:26 am

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:00 pm I would love to hear the GOP defend and/or try to articulate the reason for pulling out of that treaty.

I’m guessing that Putin sees the end is likely coming for his useful idiot, so he’s calling in all his favors while he can.

That was how I read it. He's about to lose his plaything, so he's making his big 'wishlist' plays now. He doesn't have to worry about the damage it causes his asset anymore. And unlike a bad law, your successor can't just repeal the way back into a treaty.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:30 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:26 pm And that walking pile of human shit that is Rand Paul just got finished vigorously defending Trump pulling out. Ah well, at least he knows he did his best to help his master.

Rand Paul's a hardcore isolationist - he'd rather bring U.S. forces home globally, and let the rest of the world burn for all we care. So I don't think this is pure obsequiousness (though that's a perk), but rather reflects Paul's genuine beliefs.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:10 am

NBC News story about the Erdogan phone call. Bolded a few parts of emphasis because...wtf!?!

Sunday's phone call between Trump and Erdogan was held to try to ease the Turkish leader's fury that he didn't get a one-on-one meeting with Trump last month on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly, according to three current and former officials. Erdogan made it known to U.S. officials that he was not happy his only interaction with Trump during the gathering of world leaders in New York was at a large reception, according to the officials.

...

But Erdogan had wanted to meet with Trump to discuss a safe zone in northern Syria, for which the U.S. expressed support, and potentially purchasing a U.S. missile defense system, according to the officials.

The U.S. and Turkey have been at odds over Erdogan's purchase of a Russian missile defense system, though Trump has refused to adopt sanctions against Ankara in response despite pressure from his own aides and members of Congress to do so.

...

Turkey has long threatened to launch a military offensive in northeastern Syria, home to Kurdish forces who work closely with the U.S. but whom Erdogan views as terrorists. Turkey's planning for an operation into Syria ramped up significantly in the weeks since the U.N. summit, the current and former officials said.

"He was really slighted," one former U.S. official said of Erdogan's reaction to not meeting with Trump during the U.N. summit. "So Trump tried to smooth it over."

But Sunday's phone call didn't go as expected, officials said. Erdogan was adamant about Turkey going into Syria, officials said. Even Trump's offer of a White House visit wasn't enough to deter him.

Trump told Erdogan that a moderate incursion, such as clearing out a safe zone, would be acceptable, officials said. But he said a large invasion that leads to major combat operations would be unacceptable, officials said.

If Turkey did launch a large military operation, Trump warned Erdogan, the U.S. would completely withdraw from Syria, according to one senior U.S. official.

Immediately after the phone call, acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney called Defense Secretary Mark Esper to inform him of the president's decision, one former and one current U.S. official said.

So if you make a huge attack...we will get out of the way and give you a clear path...because that'll be bad somehow? He really is the worst negotiator ever. A petty thug like Erdogan somehow runs rings around this moron.

The whole thing is worth a read because you can get a clear glimpse into how unqualified he is top down after years on the job now. He unsurprisingly makes snap, impulsive decisions without consultation with experts that cause massive chaos. IMO that is impeachable conduct all its own. Article of impeachment: Incompetence as Commander-in-Chief.