The Trump foreign policy thread

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Paingod
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Paingod »

Holman wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:15 pm The Hill: Putin declines Trump's spontaneous invitation to visit him in D.C.

Look, *somebody* has to prevent another Helsinki fiasco just before the election, right?
Clearly the relationship they have means more to Trump than it does to Putin. Putin got his, and Trump thinks it's his turn. Хит его и бросить, Comrade.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Kraken »

Paingod wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:18 pm
Holman wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:15 pm The Hill: Putin declines Trump's spontaneous invitation to visit him in D.C.

Look, *somebody* has to prevent another Helsinki fiasco just before the election, right?
Clearly the relationship they have means more to Trump than it does to Putin. Putin got his, and Trump thinks it's his turn. Хит его и бросить, Comrade.
Yep. We don't know what Trump gave away in Helsinki -- intelligence agencies are trying to piece it together from Russian and other international chatter as best they can...but it's pretty obvious that Putin got what he wanted and has no reason to jeopardize that.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo »

Kraken wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:23 pm
Paingod wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:18 pm
Holman wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:15 pm The Hill: Putin declines Trump's spontaneous invitation to visit him in D.C.

Look, *somebody* has to prevent another Helsinki fiasco just before the election, right?
Clearly the relationship they have means more to Trump than it does to Putin. Putin got his, and Trump thinks it's his turn. Хит его и бросить, Comrade.
Yep. We don't know what Trump gave away in Helsinki -- intelligence agencies are trying to piece it together from Russian and other international chatter as best they can...but it's pretty obvious that Putin got what he wanted and has no reason to jeopardize that.
It may also be that, unlike Trump, Putin is smart enough to realize that meeting in the fall is terrible politics for Trump, and threatens to jeopardize Putin's investment in the GOP.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Holman wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:15 pm The Hill: Putin declines Trump's spontaneous invitation to visit him in D.C.

Look, *somebody* has to prevent another Helsinki fiasco just before the election, right?
Per the Magnitsky Act, it is very likely illegal for him to go to the White House (or even set foot in the USA), as I expect he's on the list.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Holman wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:15 pm The Hill: Putin declines Trump's spontaneous invitation to visit him in D.C.

Look, *somebody* has to prevent another Helsinki fiasco just before the election, right?
He's going to be sulking around all week. "WHY DIDN'T VLADIMIR WANT COME TO MY SLUMBER PARTY???!!"
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by $iljanus »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Holman wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:15 pm The Hill: Putin declines Trump's spontaneous invitation to visit him in D.C.

Look, *somebody* has to prevent another Helsinki fiasco just before the election, right?
He's going to be sulking around all week. "WHY DIDN'T VLADIMIR WANT COME TO MY SLUMBER PARTY???!!"
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Image

Image

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by GungHo »

How embarrassing/desperately weak and pathetic.

Thanks again for all the winning trump
OR
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Jeff V »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:29 pm
Holman wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:15 pm The Hill: Putin declines Trump's spontaneous invitation to visit him in D.C.

Look, *somebody* has to prevent another Helsinki fiasco just before the election, right?
He's going to be sulking around all week. "WHY DIDN'T VLADIMIR WANT COME TO MY SLUMBER PARTY???!!"
It would have been the perfect opportunity to collude on rigging the mid-terms. Maybe Putin is anticipating dangerous riots and is taking the prudent measure of staying home.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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If you were gchatting with Trump, he would fail the Turing Test, right?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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El Guapo wrote: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:48 am If you were gchatting with Trump, he would fail the Turing Test, right?
I think most people would assume an AI would not be that inarticulate. So he'd pass for being too dumb.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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I can totally see that being part of a Turing test. Look for things indicating too unintelligent for a bot....
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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This will sort things out.

US to cut $200m aid to Gaza and West Bank
US President Donald Trump has ordered more than $200m (£155m) in economic aid which was to be allocated to Gaza and the West Bank be redirected elsewhere.

A State Department official said the decision was made after a review "to ensure these funds are spent in accordance with US national interests".

It has already withheld $65m from the UN relief agency for the Palestinians.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Smoove_B »

I don't follow politics too closely in Canada, but did they recently take a stance on anything happening in Russia or the Ukraine? Ladies and gentleman, the President of the United States of America:


I love Canada, but they’ve taken advantage of our Country for many years!
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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It's so unfair says the 800 lb gorilla on our border.

Smoove, it's about trade. He's explaining to his base why he must take a hardline with Canada. And that's because we outsmarted you at every turn and only Drumpf recognizes it and is going to fix it.

You know that country that is the brunt of all those jokes? It's actually secretly undermining the US. Trey and co. were right to blame us.

How embarrassing for you all.

So naive, America. You thought we were friends but Canada has secretly been banging America's wife, laughing at America the whole time.
Last edited by GreenGoo on Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Yeah, I just came back to post what's on MSNBC:


JUST IN: In tweet, President Trump says "there is no political necessity to keep Canada in he new NAFTA deal," and if no deal is reached, "Canada will be out," and warns US Congress not to interfere with the negotiations or, he asserts, he will "simply terminate NAFTA entirely."
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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He's high.

He's also frustrated that his first ultimatums were ignored while the American and Canadian grown-ups went about their business.

The key to making empty threats is to make sure they know you *really* mean it the second time you make them.

Pathetic.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Skinypupy »

So I’ll ventured over to Fox News to see how this latest derp is being spun.

Interestingly, there’s not a single mention of it in the front page. I had to dig pretty deep into their politics section to even find a mention of it.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Fox decided not to address the President's comments on how the US's second largest trade partner is "not needed"?

I'm shocked. Of course there is no political necessity you numskull, it's economics we're talking about.

Threatening congress to not do their jobs otherwise he will vaporize huge amounts of wealth on both sides of the border? Oh yeah, he's a keeper.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Maria Butina case
A federal judge on Monday blasted U.S. prosecutors and defense attorneys during a hearing in which the defense sought to have a Russian woman set free on bail pending trial on charges she was a foreign agent attempting to infiltrate the National Rifle Association and other American conservative groups .

In ordering continued detention for Maria Butina, 29, U.S. District Judge Tanya S. Chutkan said Butina remained a serious flight risk.

Chutkan also imposed a gag order after slamming prosecutors for their mistaken claim in court filings that Butina traded sex for access, and her defense for repeated public statements that the judge said could bias potential jurors.
...
Chutkan admonished both sides not to try the case in the media.

In a measured tone before a packed but silent courtroom, Chutkan excoriated prosecutors with the U.S. attorney’s office of the District and the Justice Department’s national security division for opening the case with a “salacious” and “notorious” claim that Butina at least once offered sex in exchange “for a position with a special interest organization,” which the government admitted in a late night filing Friday was based on a misreading of three-year-old text messages.

“It took me five minutes to review the evidence and tell they were joking. It was apparent on their face,” in the texts between Butina and another person, Chutkan said, saying she was “dismayed” that “someone at the U.S. attorney’s office or at the Department of Justice could look at those exchanges and conclude they were serious.”

While crediting the government with taking back the allegation, she warned assistant U.S. attorneys Erik M. Kenerson and Thomas N. Saunders, “It could make it difficult to have a fair trail when these mistakes are made.”

Chutkan then blasted Butina’s attorney for giving interviews opining on his client’s innocence and publicly characterizing evidence. The exchanges, the judge noted, violated court rules that bar attorneys from making public statements that could prejudice potential jurors.

“You’re going all over the networks giving explanations for the evidence in this case,” Chutkan said icily to Butina attorney Robert N. Driscoll. “I don’t think you’re going to be a witness in this case.”
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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So Drumpf cancels his trip to Ireland and tells them. So far so good, ignoring the reasons for the cancellation.

Ireland, not being dipshits, communicates this fact with Irish media.

This results in American media asking the WH for details.

The WH responds variously. The trip has not been cancelled, it might be cancelled but no decision yet, what trip to Ireland?

I know it has been said before but the WH is trying to gaslight the media and the American people.

How simple is it to confirm that yes, the trip has been cancelled? How could you possibly fuck that up? Why the denials, why the confusion, why stammering?

The Irish government doesn't expect you and have stopped making preparations for your arrival. You're clearly not going. Just be honest for once on this simple, inconsequential, meaningless thing...

Are they incapable of honesty?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Paingod »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:32 amAre they incapable of honesty?
Pretty much incapable of anything. It starts at the top and infects all the way down. I imagine right now everyone's paralyzed by Trump's paranoia and afraid to appear to step out of line. If they can't see the line, they'd rather close their eyes than try.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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From what I've read, it's expected that if Trump visits Ireland there will be massive protests against him. If the administration admits it is cancelling the trip, that is tantamount to admitting that he is afraid of being humiliated. Again. Just about the only foreign countries where it would be safe (propaganda-wise) for him to visit these days are Russia, China and North Korea. Well, maybe not China.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Max Peck wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:15 am From what I've read, it's expected that if Trump visits Ireland there will be massive protests against him. If the administration admits it is cancelling the trip, that is tantamount to admitting that he is afraid of being humiliated. Again. Just about the only foreign countries where it would be safe (propaganda-wise) for him to visit these days are Russia, China and North Korea. Well, maybe not China.
Turkey. Don't forget Turkey.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by $iljanus »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Max Peck wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:15 am From what I've read, it's expected that if Trump visits Ireland there will be massive protests against him. If the administration admits it is cancelling the trip, that is tantamount to admitting that he is afraid of being humiliated. Again. Just about the only foreign countries where it would be safe (propaganda-wise) for him to visit these days are Russia, China and North Korea. Well, maybe not China.
Turkey. Don't forget Turkey.
And Saudi Arabia. Sword dances and ominous glowing orbs for the win!
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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King of the Hill burns Canadians.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Unagi »

I wonder how Trump is going to handle this Russian [edit: this Russian/Syrian plane downing]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ru ... spartanntp

"By using the Russian plane as cover, the Israeli air pilots made it vulnerable to Syrian air defense fire," said Konashenkov, according to TASS.
"As a result, the Ilyushin-20, its reflective surface being far greater than that of the F-16, was downed by a missile launched with the S-200 system."

He might have to pick a side at some point....
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by GreenGoo »

I'm watching Russia try to spin this in the news and even with them spinning as hard as they can all I hear is "Syrian forces shot down Russian plane. It's the jews' fault".

That might work on people already inclined to anti-semitism, but for the rest of us, your aim sucks. Stop sucking.

From Israel's standpoint, Russia is in Syria helping Israel's enemies. Israel gave notice of the incoming strike (which is more than Russia would ever do). Getting in the way while Israel defends itself, bad things are gonna happen.

I find it particularly hilarious that Russia spinning this in the news while they are in the middle of major military troop movements and fleet movements designed to intimidate the west and illustrate their military might.

I mean, it works. Drumpf has shown that denying reality and gaslighting everyone works. It just seems so beneath big bad Russia as they try to impress everyone with their military prowess.
Last edited by GreenGoo on Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Unagi wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:55 pm I wonder how Trump is going to handle this Russian

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ru ... spartanntp

"By using the Russian plane as cover, the Israeli air pilots made it vulnerable to Syrian air defense fire," said Konashenkov, according to TASS.
"As a result, the Ilyushin-20, its reflective surface being far greater than that of the F-16, was downed by a missile launched with the S-200 system."

He might have to pick a side at some point....
That's pretty clever, and funny - given that Syria will shoot at Israeli jets and is solidly in Russia's pocket.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by GreenGoo »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:02 pm
That's pretty clever, and funny - given that Syria will shoot at Israeli jets and is solidly in Russia's pocket.
Exactly. Israel has shown time and time again that they will do what it takes to protect themselves and are damn good at it. I feel for the men who died unnecessarily but then, they're in the middle of an armed conflict and were killed by friendly fire. Spinning it to be Israel's fault is about all Russia can do after the fact.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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GreenGoo wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:02 pm I mean, it works. Drumpf has shown that denying reality and gaslighting everyone works. It just seems so beneath big bad Russia as they try to impress everyone with their military prowess.
Anytime you find yourself thinking of "big, bad Russia", remember that their GDP is slightly larger than Mexico's, but smaller than Canada's. They are a 3rd world country that inherited a lot of institutions and weapons (that they can't really afford) from the USSR, but that does not make them a superpower.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Quibble: 3rd world is a Cold War term meaning not alligned with the two superpowers. We were first world, second world was the Soviets.

It was a political term, not an economic one.
The concept of "Second World" was a construct of the Cold War and the term is still largely used to describe former communist countries that are between poverty and prosperity, many of which are now capitalist states. Subsequently the actual meaning of the terms "First World", "Second World" and "Third World" changed from being based on political ideology to an economic definition.[1] The three-world theory has been criticized as crude and relatively outdated for its nominal ordering (1; 2; 3) and sociologists have instead used the words "developed", "developing", and "underdeveloped" as replacement terms for global stratification (which in turn have been criticized as displaying a colonialist mindset) [2] —nevertheless, the three-world theory is still popular in contemporary literature and media. This might also cause semantic variation of the term between describing a region's political entities and its people.[3]
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Sepiche »

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:05 pm Quibble: 3rd world is a Cold War term meaning not alligned with the two superpowers. We were first world, second world was the Soviets.

It was a political term, not an economic one.
A quibble with your quibble: the definition has expanded in the intervening decades. :)

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/third-world?s=t
1. the underdeveloped nations of the world, especially those with widespread poverty.
2. the group of developing nations, especially of Asia and Africa, that do not align themselves with the policies of either the U.S. or the former Soviet Union.
3. the minority groups within a nation or predominant culture.
Now... feel free to quibble with my saying Russia is an underdeveloped nation, but my larger point is that it has in many ways fallen behind the rest of the world, and the term "third world" simply helps paint that picture.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Sepiche wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:00 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:02 pm I mean, it works. Drumpf has shown that denying reality and gaslighting everyone works. It just seems so beneath big bad Russia as they try to impress everyone with their military prowess.
Anytime you find yourself thinking of "big, bad Russia", remember that their GDP is slightly larger than Mexico's, but smaller than Canada's. They are a 3rd world country that inherited a lot of institutions and weapons (that they can't really afford) from the USSR, but that does not make them a superpower.
Their influence far outstrips their nominal GDP. Their off-the-books economy is easily among the top worldwide. Superpower in the traditional sense? Maybe not. But they are a top threat.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Sepiche »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:49 pm Their influence far outstrips their nominal GDP. Their off-the-books economy is easily among the top worldwide. Superpower in the traditional sense? Maybe not. But they are a top threat.
I would argue a lot of that influence is smoke and mirrors, but granted they are undoubtedly influencing the world far more than Canada and Mexico. More than anything though it was the inheriting of the KGB, it's institutional knowledge, and assets that have given Russia much of what influence it has today.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Sepiche wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:00 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:02 pm I mean, it works. Drumpf has shown that denying reality and gaslighting everyone works. It just seems so beneath big bad Russia as they try to impress everyone with their military prowess.
Anytime you find yourself thinking of "big, bad Russia", remember that their GDP is slightly larger than Mexico's, but smaller than Canada's. They are a 3rd world country that inherited a lot of institutions and weapons (that they can't really afford) from the USSR, but that does not make them a superpower.
Their nuclear arsenal makes them a superpower, not their economy.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by GreenGoo »

The idea that Russia is not influential or a cause for alarm is disquieting given the sheer amount of evidence that they've been (successfully) meddling in everyone's democracies, and the fact that their military seems to be doing plenty of concern worthy things, including playing chicken with the UK (admittedly this is not something new).

I'm not saying panic, I'm saying treat them as inconsequential at your peril.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Unagi »

Russia is only influential or a cause for alarm if you let them be.

Spoiler:
:wink:
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Sepiche »

Pyperkub wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:36 pm
Sepiche wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:00 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:02 pm I mean, it works. Drumpf has shown that denying reality and gaslighting everyone works. It just seems so beneath big bad Russia as they try to impress everyone with their military prowess.
Anytime you find yourself thinking of "big, bad Russia", remember that their GDP is slightly larger than Mexico's, but smaller than Canada's. They are a 3rd world country that inherited a lot of institutions and weapons (that they can't really afford) from the USSR, but that does not make them a superpower.
Their nuclear arsenal makes them a superpower, not their economy.
Nuclear weapons give you a guarantee no one will invade you, and some influence. Maintaining those weapons however is part of the reason they are weaker than they seem... it costs them a lot of money they increasingly don't have.
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