The Trump foreign policy thread

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by hepcat »

She can't be held responsible for the actions of every underage worker in her sweatshops, can she?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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I don't know if anyone's ever accused the Trumpettes of originality.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Defiant wrote:
US investigators believe Russian hackers breached Qatar's state news agency and planted a fake news report that contributed to a crisis among the US' closest Gulf allies, according to US officials briefed on the investigation.
The Qatari government has said a May 23 news report on its Qatar News Agency attributed false remarks to the nation's ruler that appeared friendly to Iran and Israel and questioned whether President Donald Trump would last in office.
link
UAE orchestrated hacking of Qatari government sites, sparking regional upheaval, according to U.S. intelligence officials
The United Arab Emirates orchestrated the hacking of Qatari government news and social media sites in order to post incendiary false quotes attributed to Qatar’s emir, Sheikh Tamim Bin Hamad al-Thani, in late May that sparked the ongoing upheaval between Qatar and its neighbors, according to U.S. intelligence officials.

Officials became aware last week that newly analyzed information gathered by U.S. intelligence agencies confirmed that on May 23, senior members of the UAE government discussed the plan and its implementation. The officials said it remains unclear whether the UAE carried out the hacks itself or contracted to have them done. The false reports said that the emir, among other things, had called Iran an “Islamic power” and praised Hamas.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

hepcat wrote:She can't be held responsible for the actions of every underage worker in her sweatshops, can she?
Now the administration is doing "Made In America Week."

By Wednesday we'll be informed that Bangladesh is basically Ohio.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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War crimes? I'm sure they'll investigate themselves. We've got more important things to worry about. I'm sure Syria won't do anything else, and if they do, Putin will totally deal with it.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Iran
President Donald Trump has certified that Iran is complying with the nuclear deal reached under President Barack Obama, although he added in his message to Congress that Iran is also “unquestionably in default of the spirit” of the deal.

According to The New York Times, Trump actively resisted the advice of his foreign policy advisers urging him to certify Iranian compliance:
At an hourlong meeting last Wednesday, all of the president’s major security advisers recommended he preserve the Iran deal for now. Among those who spoke out were Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson; Defense Secretary Jim Mattis; Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, the national security adviser; and Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, according to an official who described internal discussions on the condition of anonymity. The official said Mr. Trump had spent 55 minutes of the meeting telling them he did not want to.
Despite ultimately ceding to the wishes of his experts on the Iranian nuclear deal, Trump is still planning on cracking down on the country.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Trump’s Incoherent Iran Policy Could End the Nuke Deal on the Worst Possible Terms
President Donald Trump’s decision on Monday to certify that Iran is still abiding by the terms of the nuclear deal, or Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action — a decision that prevents the reimposition of U.S. proliferation-related sanctions on Iran — would seem to be good news for supporters of the nuclear agreement. However, stories that Trump spent an hour arguing with his entire national security team about whether to certify and only reluctantly agreed to continue the nuclear agreement should be of grave concern. Indeed, Trump’s behavior and the administration’s insistence on coupling every certification with over the top, belligerent rhetoric may be setting the United States up to walk away from the nuclear agreement on the worst terms possible.

The first problem is that in the event Trump decides to leave the agreement, the blame game will be critical. If the United States is blamed for the collapse by its P5+1 partners (Britain, China, France, Germany, and Russia) and other key international actors, sanctions will be nearly impossible to reimplement. Many of America’s partners will continue to engage with Iran economically and call our bluff, daring the United States to sanction them. The end result will be an Iran that is no longer constrained by the nuclear obligations of the deal but is not under severe economic pressure.

At every turn, the administration has made absolutely clear that it does not like the nuclear agreement, believes it was a bad deal, and is signaling a desire to abandon it. This approach, combined with the overall negative perception of Trump across the globe, means that in almost any scenario he will be blamed for the collapse of the agreement. It is hard to imagine a scenario in which the Trump administration would be able to reimplement sanctions. Even if Iran were caught cheating red-handed, the intelligence would likely be disputed. And with the administration facing such a trust deficit globally, specifically on this issue, it is hard to see how the United States could come out of the situation in a strong position.

But even as the United States signals to the world that it may walk away from the deal, the message to Iran is that the United States will talk tough but not really take meaningful steps to counter the Islamic Republic in the region. That is because the tough talk has run into the reality that the Middle East is incredibly complicated and that there is little support in the United States for new, major military adventures. In Islamic State-controlled eastern Syria, the administration has hotly debated whether to compete militarily not just with the Islamic State, but also with Iran. And it appears that the more cautious Pentagon approach may be prevailing over the more aggressive strategy being pushed by the National Security Council.

Meanwhile, Jordan, Russia, and the United States earlier this month agreed to a ceasefire in southwest Syria. Trump has touted this breakthrough as a major success. But in recent days, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has come out against the agreement, arguing that it is too friendly to Iran and could allow Iran and its allies in Syria to establish a base on Israel’s border. The text of the agreement has not been shared publicly, so it is hard to know where the precise problem lies. But it seems most likely that this is a case in which the United States is willing to accept more risk to cut an agreement that it believes is in its interests and Israel’s, while the Israelis take a more absolutist position about their security. Indeed, this dynamic is quite similar to the years-long disagreements over the nuclear deal — though Israel’s supporters in Washington do not seem to be going after Trump for this approach with nearly the same vigor that they did when President Barack Obama and Netanyahu had similar disputes.

These policy decisions in Syria may be the right ones. But if they are, why does the administration persist in its over-the-top rhetoric and threats toward Iran? All the administration is doing is demonstrating to Iran and to U.S. regional partners that the United States is all talk no action, which will weaken its hand on Iran policy overall, and especially in a scenario in which the nuclear deal collapses and Iran considers restarting its program.

It is hard to explain why the administration is pursuing these incoherent and contradictory steps. What appears to be driving it is a similar dynamic to what we see with healthcare. The American public has moved on from both the healthcare debate and the Iran debate. It is ready to focus on new issues. But Trump has no clear agenda or policies of his own, and in their absence he is simply trying to tear down Obama’s key domestic and foreign policy achievements, with little understanding or care for what might replace them. On Tuesday, he failed quite spectacularly on both fronts. But he is going to keep trying — and unfortunately, on Iran, as opposed to healthcare, he does not need Congress’s help to bring down the policy.
One wonders to what extent the terms of the Syrian ceasefire were crafted in Moscow rather than Washington.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Max Peck wrote:Trump’s Incoherent Iran Policy Could End the Nuke Deal on the Worst Possible Terms
It is hard to explain why the administration is pursuing these incoherent and contradictory steps. What appears to be driving it is a similar dynamic to what we see with healthcare. The American public has moved on from both the healthcare debate and the Iran debate. It is ready to focus on new issues. But Trump has no clear agenda or policies of his own, and in their absence he is simply trying to tear down Obama’s key domestic and foreign policy achievements, with little understanding or care for what might replace them. On Tuesday, he failed quite spectacularly on both fronts. But he is going to keep trying — and unfortunately, on Iran, as opposed to healthcare, he does not need Congress’s help to bring down the policy.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Even parody dictators bow down to Amerika's Dear Leader: https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/887423845019394048
@DPRK_News wrote:Supreme Leader Kim Jong-Un can no longer take Donald Trump seriously.

Supreme Leader Kim Jong-Un cannot even.
@AP wrote:BREAKING: Official: Trump administration certifies Iran is complying with nuclear deal but says it's 'in default of the spirit'
@AP wrote:BREAKING: Trump administration to extend Iran's nuclear sanctions relief, but will target more Iranians with non-nuclear sanctions.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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More American foreign policy, fresh from the Kremlin!

Trump ends covert CIA program to arm anti-Assad rebels in Syria, a move sought by Moscow
President Trump has decided to end the CIA’s covert program to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels battling the government of Bashar al-Assad, a move long sought by Russia, according to U.S. officials.

The program was a central plank of a policy begun by the Obama administration in 2013 to put pressure on Assad to step aside, but even its backers have questioned its efficacy since Russia deployed forces in Syria two years later.

Officials said the phasing out of the secret program reflects Trump’s interest in finding ways to work with Russia, which saw the anti-Assad program as an assault on its interests. The shuttering of the program is also an acknowledgment of Washington’s limited leverage and desire to remove Assad from power.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Max Peck wrote:More American foreign policy, fresh from the Kremlin!

Trump ends covert CIA program to arm anti-Assad rebels in Syria, a move sought by Moscow
President Trump has decided to end the CIA’s covert program to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels battling the government of Bashar al-Assad, a move long sought by Russia, according to U.S. officials.

The program was a central plank of a policy begun by the Obama administration in 2013 to put pressure on Assad to step aside, but even its backers have questioned its efficacy since Russia deployed forces in Syria two years later.

Officials said the phasing out of the secret program reflects Trump’s interest in finding ways to work with Russia, which saw the anti-Assad program as an assault on its interests. The shuttering of the program is also an acknowledgment of Washington’s limited leverage and desire to remove Assad from power.
I'm not too concerned about this (though I would hope we got some concessions). I've long felt that Syria was Russia's mess to clean up in the first place, as they've been a satellite state for so long.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Pyperkub wrote:(though I would hope we got some concessions).
It's like you don't even know Trump.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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El Guapo wrote:
Pyperkub wrote:(though I would hope we got some concessions).
It's like you don't even know Trump.
Hope springs eternal. As we used to say, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Well, maybe we'll get to adopt some Russian babies at least?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Max Peck wrote:Even parody dictators bow down to Amerika's Dear Leader: https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/887423845019394048
@DPRK_News wrote:Supreme Leader Kim Jong-Un can no longer take Donald Trump seriously.

Supreme Leader Kim Jong-Un cannot even.
@AP wrote:BREAKING: Official: Trump administration certifies Iran is complying with nuclear deal but says it's 'in default of the spirit'
@AP wrote:BREAKING: Trump administration to extend Iran's nuclear sanctions relief, but will target more Iranians with non-nuclear sanctions.
I've heard that the DPRK_News is the propaganda arm of something associated with attorney Ken White.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Max Peck wrote:More American foreign policy, fresh from the Kremlin!

Trump ends covert CIA program to arm anti-Assad rebels in Syria, a move sought by Moscow
Now Assad has a free hand.

Thank God we shut down the war crimes office before they had to deal with THAT case load!
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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You know things aren't going great when the wife of Japan's Prime Minister pretends not to speak English so she doesn't have to talk to Trump:

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Trump's not a terrific person, and I bet he doesn't speak a word of Japanese. Awkward.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Ralph-Wiggum wrote:You know things aren't going great when the wife of Japan's Prime Minister pretends not to speak English so she doesn't have to talk to Trump:

The consensus seems to be that while she does speak some English, she isn't fluent and isn't comfortable attempting a conversation in English in any kind of formal environment, and that it was not a snub.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Max Peck wrote: The consensus seems to be that while she does speak some English, she isn't fluent and isn't comfortable attempting a conversation in English in any kind of formal environment, and that it was not a snub.
The protocol team was 100% aware of everyone's linguistic abilities. A decent leader would have conversed through the interpreter, and we know there was one. Trump was just too much of a boor for this, and he really really wanted time with Putin instead.

Japan didn't snub Trump here. Trump snubbed Japan.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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She was probably confused by Donnie asking her about the weather constantly. She was probably thinking, what the hell does "100 percent chance of golden showers" mean anyway?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Holman wrote:
Max Peck wrote: The consensus seems to be that while she does speak some English, she isn't fluent and isn't comfortable attempting a conversation in English in any kind of formal environment, and that it was not a snub.
The protocol team was 100% aware of everyone's linguistic abilities. A decent leader would have conversed through the interpreter, and we know there was one. Trump was just too much of a boor for this, and he really really wanted time with Putin instead.

Japan didn't snub Trump here. Trump snubbed Japan.
I do not disagree with that assessment.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Max Peck wrote:
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:You know things aren't going great when the wife of Japan's Prime Minister pretends not to speak English so she doesn't have to talk to Trump:

The consensus seems to be that while she does speak some English, she isn't fluent and isn't comfortable attempting a conversation in English in any kind of formal environment, and that it was not a snub.
Keynote address to maybe 50-60 attendess at conference in NY a few years ago. She speaks (in English) for about 15 minutes. While the English is at times halting, it's a hell of a lot better than Trump's word salad bullshit.
https://youtu.be/Uhn4EFGiZhA?t=137
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Yeah - she clearly could have attempted a polite conversation with Trump. Perhaps it was simply beneath her dignity.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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It's possible he went for the classic and classy grab her by the pussy. Maybe she didn't like it?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Who knew that bombing the hell out of terrorists could be so complicated? Apparently, simply reporting that Mattis believes that someone the Russians claimed to kill might still be alive is enough to foil American attempts to... kill... the allegedly dead man? :think:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 8717934592
@realDonaldTrump (Who is Totally Sane) wrote:The Failing New York Times foiled U.S. attempt to kill the single most wanted terrorst, Al-Baghdadi. Their sick agenda over National Security
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Actually, this seems like a more likely explanation for the tweet.
While Mr. Trump did not provide more detail about the accusation, the tweet came about 20 minutes after a segment about leaks aired on Fox News' "Fox and Friends." At one point, the chyron read "NYT FOILS U.S. ATTEMPT TO TAKE OUT AL-BAGHDADI."
The report is about an incident from 2015.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Trump wrote:Their sick agenda over National Security
Says the guy gutting the State Department, our first line of defense. The guy who routinely drops intelligence at casual meetings. The guy whose only national security achievement is banning tourists.



The cognitive dissonance going on in this country is incredible. It's amazing to watch.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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No, see national defense only means guns, tanks, planes, ships (with steam, goddamit), and walls. That's the only way to keep everyone safe.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Chaz wrote:No, see national defense only means guns, tanks, planes, ships (with steam, goddamit), and walls. That's the only way to keep everyone safe.
Amd drones. I forsee the CIA investing in Dune's Hunter-Seekers at some point.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Newsweek
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is growing increasingly frustrated with the Trump administration and could quit before the year is through, according to reports.

Two sources familiar with Tillerson’s conversations with friends told CNN over the weekend that he has grown so frustrated with President Donald Trump and his administration that there may soon be a “Rexit.”

The change in Tillerson’s tone followed a stressful week for the secretary of state. He was found to have violated U.S. sanctions against Russia while working as CEO of Exxon Mobil.
...
The sources acknowledged that Tillerson could have been venting after a tough week, but his frustration is just the latest in a long list of times he has butted heads with the president and his administration.

Last month, President Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner was the one calling Tillerson “unprofessional.” The secretary of state reportedly blew up at top Trump administration staffers during a meeting in White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus’s office.
...
Both sources said that Tillerson’s frustrations with these situations, and many other tug-of-wars between the White House and Cabinet members, are increasing noticeably and that he has come to realize things won’t change anytime soon.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo »

So is Dennis Rodman going to be Trump's second or third Secretary of State?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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State Department spokesperson just announced that Tillerson is "taking a little time off."

1) From what??

2) He's out.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Taking time off. Hilarious. What a bunch of clowns.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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It's telling that Trump can't even work with the unqualified toadies he picked because the genuine talent wouldn't touch him.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by gilraen »

Holman wrote:State Department spokesperson just announced that Tillerson is "taking a little time off."
Same way Bill O'Reilly was taking a little time off?

Trump's too busy blocking Chrissy Teigen on Twitter to notice anyway.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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Holman wrote:It's telling that Trump can't even work with the unqualified toadies he picked because the genuine talent wouldn't touch him.
I don't know about unqualified, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't much of a toadie.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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If he wasn't, the next one sure as hell will be.

That's what worries me the most about what happens now that the first round of awful people start leaving or being shown the door: who comes after? I mean, if these guys were the best you could do initially, and you decided some of them weren't "loyal" enough, the next round is going to be even less qualified, and even more loyal. That sure sounds like a path toward an authoritarian Presidency where there's no checks on the President's desires.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

Pyperkub wrote:
Holman wrote:It's telling that Trump can't even work with the unqualified toadies he picked because the genuine talent wouldn't touch him.
I don't know about unqualified, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't much of a toadie.
That Tillerson has grown increasingly frustrated with Trump doesn't make up for his willingness to gut State and let Jared play at foreign policy.

Maybe his contact with actual diplomats has given him a swift education, but he came in intending to do things the Trump way. When he goes he's going to do it quietly and without fuss.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

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It’s impossible to endlessly tolerate this kind of insolence toward our country.
Yes, "insolence".
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