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The Trump foreign policy thread

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Drazzil
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Drazzil »

I would vote for Hillary over Biden this time around. I hope that if something shocking happens to one of the frontrunners that she gets the chance to stand in. My attitude towards Hillary changed sometime around when I posted the "Hillary for prison" thread in that I re examined all my stances around HRC and asked myself What did she *really* do?. I couldn't come up with anything other then "eleteist" and "Paid for by corporations"... Which I suppose given her upsides and service to her country, I could overlook given what we face in a second term of Trump.

I posted this in another thread by mistake. It belongs here.
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Alefroth
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Alefroth »

Pretty sure it doesn't.

Drazzil
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Drazzil »

Alefroth wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:18 pm
Pretty sure it doesn't.
Yellowking brought up HRC, I continued the thought. Now I'm done.
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Drazzil
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Drazzil »

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:54 am
Holman wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:10 am
More generally, it is way past time for the U.S. to endorse the creation of a Kurdish state. This highlights how important it is - as long as we leave the Kurds at the mercy of the Turkish, Iranian, Iraqi, and Syrian governments stuff like this is going to continue to happen. I'd give a ton of credit to any Democratic candidate who came out and said this.
But of course the problem is that all the Middle-East real estate is long since spoken-for.

We should offer them Wyoming.
I'm fine with offering them Wyoming as well (and honestly it would be incredible to watch the fallout of a candidate offering Wyoming to the Kurds), but the state would be carved out of Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria.
This is a great idea. I'd love the US to stick it to Turkey, Iraq, Syria... But I'm not sure we should take bits of Iran. We've directed enough suffering at Iran for a bit.
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Holman
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »



I refuse to read the comments. I'm sure the MAGA position is that the troops should open fire.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Alefroth
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Alefroth »

Those Kurds are so fickle. See how easy they turn? They only care about what's best for them.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by hepcat »

Looks like Trump laid down the law with Lindsey.

Graham says he's 'increasingly optimistic' Trump's Syria strategy will succeed

McConnell is probably up next. Either Mitch tows the line, or his wife's dirty dealings might get a light shown on them, I'm guessing.
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Holman
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »



God, what a dick.

Marco Rubio might want to know that something like 12,000 Kurds have died in the fighting in Syria.

US deathtoll is something like twelve, and three of them were journalists.

BTW, senator, who ordered the retreat?
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Smoove_B »

This is the same Marco Rubio that was defending Trump's decision to hold G8 on a Trump property because it would also be good for Florida. F Marco Rubio. And F Mike Huckabee too. No particular reason, I just want the universe to know I still think he's a sack of shit too.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

It’s not the G8 until Russia gets invited back.

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Holman
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

malchior
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior »

Putin and Erdogan announce joint control of NE Syria

Trump got played. Again. It really is beginning to look like he is just a useful idiot. He is a complete, unmitigated disaster.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior »

"Safe zone" "Kurds are safe". What a piece of shit.


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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by hepcat »

Trump during WWII

Image
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

USA Today
President Donald Trump declared a "big success" in Syria on Wednesday and lifted sanctions on Turkey he imposed after Turkey's military assault on Syria's Kurdish forces, a key American ally.

Trump's move came even as the president's top envoy to Syria said the U.S. believed Turkey had committed war crimes in its attack on the Kurds. It also came as Russia gained a foothold in Syria and members of Congress expressed growing concerns about Trump's decision to withdraw U.S. forces stationed on the Syria-Turkey border.
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Zarathud
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Zarathud »

I like Presidents who don’t surrender to the Russians.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon

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Scraper
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Scraper »

Zarathud wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:36 pm
I like Presidents who don’t surrender to the Russians.
He didn't surrender, he withdrew. Can't you tell the difference? :roll: It was obviously genius on such a high level that only Donald Trump can understand the strategy.
FTE

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Let's check in with the Russians to see how they're characterizing "Mission Accomplished":


Kremlin spokesman on recent US actions in Syria: “The United States has been the closest ally of the Kurds in the past few years but the States abandoned the Kurds and, in fact, betrayed them.”

malchior
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior »

In further pure insanity Trump has ordered all Turkey sanctions lifted. Every day is worse than the last. There is no bottom.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNBC
President Donald Trump on Sunday said he’s interested in making a deal with ExxonMobil or another energy company to tap Syrian oil reserves.

“What I intend to do, perhaps, is make a deal with an ExxonMobil or one of our great companies to go in there and do it properly...and spread out the wealth,” he said.

President Trump has identified Syria’s oil as a U.S. national security priority and has committed to deploying troops to protect the country’s reserves even as he pulls troops from Syria’s northern regions. U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper said this week that the U.S. will send in troops to protect Syrian oil fields from Islamic State militants.
...
“The oil is so valuable, for many reasons,” Trump said on Sunday. “It fueled ISIS, number one. Number two, it helps the Kurds – because it’s basically been taken away from the Kurds... And, number three, it can help us, because we should be able to take some also.”

Freyland
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Freyland »

Okay, help a dumb guy out here... why are we entitled to another country's oil? Particularly a country we are not even friends with?
I don't remember where I read this, Cort, maybe it was in the last patch notes, but they said the UAZ really handles the best when... the wheels are actually touching the ground.
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Holman
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

Freyland wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:09 pm
Okay, help a dumb guy out here... why are we entitled to another country's oil? Particularly a country we are not even friends with?
We are not, and Trump is lying.

When Assad solidifies control, as it will now with Russian patronage, that oil will be his. The fields will be worked by Rosneft/Gazprom, and the Kurds will be fucked once again.

"Taking the oil" has been Trump's mantra for middle-east spoils ever since 2001. He's an idiot and a gangster and knows nothing.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Zarathud »

He is only holding the oil fields for a Russian puppet.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon

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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:16 pm
Freyland wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:09 pm
Okay, help a dumb guy out here... why are we entitled to another country's oil? Particularly a country we are not even friends with?
We are not, and Trump is lying.

When Assad solidifies control, as it will now with Russian patronage, that oil will be his. The fields will be worked by Rosneft/Gazprom, and the Kurds will be fucked once again.

"Taking the oil" has been Trump's mantra for middle-east spoils ever since 2001. He's an idiot and a gangster and knows nothing.
Also, there were articles last week indicating that the Pentagon sold Trump on keeping some troops in Syria by saying that they could use them to "secure the oil", knowing that Trump would buy that, when they really wanted them there for actual military / strategic reasons.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Jeff V »

Freyland wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:09 pm
Okay, help a dumb guy out here... why are we entitled to another country's oil? Particularly a country we are not even friends with?
How much free Kuwaiti gas have you been putting in your car lately?

The best way to be done with these endless Middle East wars is to fully develop an infrastructure that does not require oil. Republicans in particular are puppets to the oil industry and have been actively resisting this strategy. Once we do manage to permanently get off their teat, then our involvement there is pretty much to prop up Israel. if they actually need it.

Freyland
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Freyland »

Jeff V wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:32 pm
Freyland wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:09 pm
Okay, help a dumb guy out here... why are we entitled to another country's oil? Particularly a country we are not even friends with?
How much free Kuwaiti gas have you been putting in your car lately?

The best way to be done with these endless Middle East wars is to fully develop an infrastructure that does not require oil. Republicans in particular are puppets to the oil industry and have been actively resisting this strategy. Once we do manage to permanently get off their teat, then our involvement there is pretty much to prop up Israel. if they actually need it.
None, that at least my wallet tells me. Nor would I imagine such if "we got to have some too" of Syrian oil. I think you misunderstood my question. But it has been answered already.
I don't remember where I read this, Cort, maybe it was in the last patch notes, but they said the UAZ really handles the best when... the wheels are actually touching the ground.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Jeff V »

Freyland wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:57 pm
None, that at least my wallet tells me. Nor would I imagine such if "we got to have some too" of Syrian oil. I think you misunderstood my question. But it has been answered already.
The price of oil is the ostensible motivation for intervention there. But not only does it not equal free oil, but the cost of intervention is astronomical but somehow is not considered in the oil calculus.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Kraken »

Jeff V wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:12 pm
Freyland wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:57 pm
None, that at least my wallet tells me. Nor would I imagine such if "we got to have some too" of Syrian oil. I think you misunderstood my question. But it has been answered already.
The price of oil is the ostensible motivation for intervention there. But not only does it not equal free oil, but the cost of intervention is astronomical but somehow is not considered in the oil calculus.
It never is. If it included all of the indirect costs, such as military intervention and pollution cleanup and health impacts, a gallon of gas would sell for at least six bucks.

Within the next decade, it will become illegal (or, through legislation, prohibitively expensive) to drill new wells for oil meant to be burned. In the 2030s, we'll start phasing out existing wells as demand falls. By the 2040s, we'll hardly be burning the stuff at all; oil will be for commodities like plastics, asphalt, synthetic fertilizers, lubricants, etc. It will still be an important commodity, but not the lifeblood of civilization -- because if it still is, there won't be any more civilization. Drill-baby-drill policies persist because there's still a ton of money to be extracted from it today, and the people doing the extracting today won't be around by the time that future comes to be. What do Trump and his oligarch pals care about 2050? We all have a stubborn habit of living in today, and oil is still the king of today. So...yeah, even though the world is awash in oil and the US is a net exporter, let's take somebody else's! That'll show 'em.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior »

If you were wondering what alternate universe nonsense is being cooked up in the right-wing Trump loony land today then wonder no more. So the idea is that Trump was brilliant to cause chaos in Syria because that was what enabled us to bag al-Bagdahdi. Indeed. Back in the real world, major papers reported that the Pentagon had to rush the operation because of the chaos Trump caused and it was being planned for months. It succeeded despite Trump's blundering in other words.
The announcement of withdrawing troops from Syria was part of the strategy to set ’em all up! And it worked! Look at all the people that fell in line. Every predictable Never Trumper Republican, every RINO Republican and every Democrat and the entirety of the media fell for it hook, line, and sinker. The Never Trumpers especially, they just couldn’t contain themselves, writing about how Trump was turning over Syria to ISIS. By pulling the troops out, he was veritably handing Syria to ISIS. He was the epitome of incompetence. He was the epitome of a joke.

The Never Trumpers were out saying that this move by Trump proved everything they had ever been saying about his unfitness and lack of qualifications. And it was all a setup. Announcing the troop withdrawal — we’re talking 50 American troops, advisers. But that was part of the strategy. It was part of the setup. It was part of setting up Baghdadi and his group. And it worked like a champ.
:roll:

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Kurth »

malchior wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:02 am
If you were wondering what alternate universe nonsense is being cooked up in the right-wing Trump loony land today then wonder no more. So the idea is that Trump was brilliant to cause chaos in Syria because that was what enabled us to bag al-Bagdahdi. Indeed. Back in the real world, major papers reported that the Pentagon had to rush the operation because of the chaos Trump caused and it was being planned for months. It succeeded despite Trump's blundering in other words.
The announcement of withdrawing troops from Syria was part of the strategy to set ’em all up! And it worked! Look at all the people that fell in line. Every predictable Never Trumper Republican, every RINO Republican and every Democrat and the entirety of the media fell for it hook, line, and sinker. The Never Trumpers especially, they just couldn’t contain themselves, writing about how Trump was turning over Syria to ISIS. By pulling the troops out, he was veritably handing Syria to ISIS. He was the epitome of incompetence. He was the epitome of a joke.

The Never Trumpers were out saying that this move by Trump proved everything they had ever been saying about his unfitness and lack of qualifications. And it was all a setup. Announcing the troop withdrawal — we’re talking 50 American troops, advisers. But that was part of the strategy. It was part of the setup. It was part of setting up Baghdadi and his group. And it worked like a champ.
:roll:
It's sad, but I could tell that was Rush Limbaugh before I even hovered over the link (not about to give it an actual click). His schtick is so boring and his delivery so consistent and dull. OMG I hate that guy.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Jeff V »

Kraken wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:52 pm

Within the next decade, it will become illegal (or, through legislation, prohibitively expensive) to drill new wells for oil meant to be burned. In the 2030s, we'll start phasing out existing wells as demand falls. By the 2040s, we'll hardly be burning the stuff at all; oil will be for commodities like plastics, asphalt, synthetic fertilizers, lubricants, etc.
I think that timeline is going to require consecutive donkey administrations because the elephants are so owned by oil when they are in power they do what they can to curb alternative energy research and adoption.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Kraken »

Jeff V wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:09 am
Kraken wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:52 pm

Within the next decade, it will become illegal (or, through legislation, prohibitively expensive) to drill new wells for oil meant to be burned. In the 2030s, we'll start phasing out existing wells as demand falls. By the 2040s, we'll hardly be burning the stuff at all; oil will be for commodities like plastics, asphalt, synthetic fertilizers, lubricants, etc.
I think that timeline is going to require consecutive donkey administrations because the elephants are so owned by oil when they are in power they do what they can to curb alternative energy research and adoption.
Yes, I'm optimistically assuming that the US government gets a mandate to treat the climate emergency like a real, existential threat and loses its eagerness to be a global pariah. Since even most Republican voters already understand that it is so, a reformed GOP that represents its constituents would work, too.

But even if my timeline is 5-10 years too aggressive, the idea that we should be seizing other countries' oil now -- even as we open up domestic wilderness areas to drilling -- is too absurd to consider as anything but grandstanding.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo »

This isn't really about Trump's foreign policy, but not sure if this will merit its own thread, so I'm going to put this here as the best place for "Foreign Policy News".

Evo Morales, Bolivia's President, resigns amid protests.

Morales had changed Bolivia's constitution to run for a disputed fourth term, and had claimed victory amidst protests over the fairness of the ballot. Of note, the state electoral commission was stacked with Morales loyalists, and the OAS had refused to certify the election results. Mass protests resulted, and the police and military essentially refused to stand by him.

So, this seems like mostly good news, albeit with a not insignificant amount of turmoil and risk.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Defiant »

What he and some of his most credulous Western supporters described as a coup was in fact something very different: proof that Bolivians—like the citizens of many other countries around the world—resent arbitrary rule. The longer they have suffered from oppression, the more they have come to value the democratic institutions that are now threatened by populists around the globe.
Evo Morales Finally Went Too Far for Bolivia
The socialist president claimed authoritarian powers in the name of the popular will. But average citizens were fed up with arbitrary rule.


Some of his apologists that are calling this a "coup" include Sanders, AOC, Omar and Corbyn.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Grifman »

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:58 am
This isn't really about Trump's foreign policy, but not sure if this will merit its own thread, so I'm going to put this here as the best place for "Foreign Policy News".

Evo Morales, Bolivia's President, resigns amid protests.

Morales had changed Bolivia's constitution to run for a disputed fourth term, and had claimed victory amidst protests over the fairness of the ballot. Of note, the state electoral commission was stacked with Morales loyalists, and the OAS had refused to certify the election results. Mass protests resulted, and the police and military essentially refused to stand by him.

So, this seems like mostly good news, albeit with a not insignificant amount of turmoil and risk.
There's a political randomness thread :)
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo »

Defiant wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:20 am
What he and some of his most credulous Western supporters described as a coup was in fact something very different: proof that Bolivians—like the citizens of many other countries around the world—resent arbitrary rule. The longer they have suffered from oppression, the more they have come to value the democratic institutions that are now threatened by populists around the globe.
Evo Morales Finally Went Too Far for Bolivia
The socialist president claimed authoritarian powers in the name of the popular will. But average citizens were fed up with arbitrary rule.


Some of his apologists that are calling this a "coup" include Sanders, AOC, Omar and Corbyn.
Yeah, I've been disappointed with some of the progressive responses to this. I get the Crooked Media daily news blast, and the one from yesterday said that Morales had resigned in connection with a possible coup after winning reelection in October. It noted alleged irregularities but didn't really say how serious it is, or how Morales had changed the rules to allow himself to run for a fourth term (after losing a popular referendum on the subject).

I will say that there is certainly real danger that military / right-wing forces in Bolivia might take advantage of this to try to set up a right-wing military dictatorship, but this is not a coup (at least not yet) and to call it that without real reference to the real threat that Morales posed to Bolivian democracy is extremely irresponsible and lazy at best. Not too surprising, given that Morales is a progressive, but common ideology shouldn't blind us to creeping dictatorship.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

BI
Christopher Anderson, an aide to former Special Envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker, testified that the White House canceled a Navy freedom-of-navigation operation in the Black Sea after President Donald Trump complained to then-national security adviser John Bolton about a CNN report that framed the operation as a counter to Russia, Politico reported.

According to Anderson's testimony, the news report in question came from CNN and characterized the operation as antagonistic toward Russia. Anderson testified that Trump called Bolton at home to complain about the article, and the operation was later canceled at the behest of the White House, Anderson said.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by raydude »

Kraken wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:53 am
Jeff V wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:09 am
Kraken wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:52 pm

Within the next decade, it will become illegal (or, through legislation, prohibitively expensive) to drill new wells for oil meant to be burned. In the 2030s, we'll start phasing out existing wells as demand falls. By the 2040s, we'll hardly be burning the stuff at all; oil will be for commodities like plastics, asphalt, synthetic fertilizers, lubricants, etc.
I think that timeline is going to require consecutive donkey administrations because the elephants are so owned by oil when they are in power they do what they can to curb alternative energy research and adoption.
Yes, I'm optimistically assuming that the US government gets a mandate to treat the climate emergency like a real, existential threat and loses its eagerness to be a global pariah. Since even most Republican voters already understand that it is so, a reformed GOP that represents its constituents would work, too.
There is one segment of government beloved by Republicans that will be in danger with climate change and which the GOP cannot ignore. That is the US military, specifically the Navy. There is no covering up the fact that Norfolk is already in danger from rising seas and flooding. Norfolk and Pugent Sound are the only places that can drydock carriers. I'm not saying the GOP will act long-term, but when the crisis does come they will probably open the floodgates to Apollo funding levels. It may be too little, too late, but at least we will then all be in agreement about climate change.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior »

I mentioned it in the impeachment thread but Trump's press conference with Erdogan is a complete outrage top to bottom.

(Both Trump and Erdogan) "We have a great relationship with the Kurds". Oh you mean the people who just fucking died and were shot on road sides because of you two demon spawn? The people who were pelting our troops with rotten vegetables? DIAF. I can't with this time line anymore.

Meanwhile, Turkey is running a propaganda campaign under the twitter hashtag #ErdoganTrumpMeeting that is clearly aimed at their domestic audience that is chock full of clear lies about varying topics such as the invasion of Syria. It's terrifying how much power social media concentrates in propagandists' hands.

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