Fundraising complete, next renewal is August 2022. Paypal Donation Links US dollars CDN Dollars

The Trump foreign policy thread

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 64079
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LordMortis »

He sure did hate "rats" until Barr took over the DOJ, now he wants sources for everything.
User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 15997
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by pr0ner »

Holman wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:33 am
Holman wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:02 pm
I'm willing to bet that this excuse doesn't last 48 hours. Trump can't let people think he's not in the loop on anything, so he'll fall back on denying the FAKE NEWS.
Called it.
He's denying something that isn't even in the NYT report!
Hodor.
User avatar
raydude
Posts: 3274
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:22 am

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by raydude »

pr0ner wrote:
Holman wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:33 am
Holman wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:02 pm
I'm willing to bet that this excuse doesn't last 48 hours. Trump can't let people think he's not in the loop on anything, so he'll fall back on denying the FAKE NEWS.
Called it.
He's denying something that isn't even in the NYT report!
He’s trying to change the subject. “I’m not corrupt. They’re corrupt. Ukraine! Hunter! Where’s the server? The emails!!”
User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 16450
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Utah

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Skinypupy »

Trump said the magic words, “fake news”

Down the memory hole it goes for all the MAGAs.
For those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Black lives matter
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

Just saw pointed out that, when he becomes the nominee, Biden can request a full and complete intelligence briefing. Trump got his in 2016 (and was in fact informed about Russian meddling).

But this is a norm, not a law. Trump's team could deny the briefing to Biden, or they could truncate it or even straight-up lie to him.

I really wonder what evidence they'll be shredding between November and January. Replacing Trump's toadies will be Biden's first job, but the second will be figuring out what actually went down during the past four years.

With all that plus the virus and the economy still problems, Biden is going to have the toughest first year of any president since Lincoln.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »



State of play:

Press Secretary says POTUS and VP were never briefed on Russian bounties on American troops.

POTUS says he was never briefed and strongly hints that it never happened.

Richard Grenell (who was acting DNI from February through May) says he never heard about it.

Russians deny it happened (of course).

British intelligence sources have confirmed that they knew of it.

We don't know yet who the sources were for NYT, WaPo, and WSJ reporting on it (which not only claims that it happened but that Trump was briefed on it).

The story is two days old and we haven't had any comment from Pompeo, Esper, or anyone else in a position to know.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
RunningMn9
Posts: 23525
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:55 pm
Location: The Sword Coast
Contact:

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by RunningMn9 »

Holman wrote:Just saw pointed out that, when he becomes the nominee, Biden can request a full and complete intelligence briefing. Trump got his in 2016 (and was in fact informed about Russian meddling).

But this is a norm, not a law. Trump's team could deny the briefing to Biden, or they could truncate it or even straight-up lie to him.

I really wonder what evidence they'll be shredding between November and January. Replacing Trump's toadies will be Biden's first job, but the second will be figuring out what actually went down during the past four years.

With all that plus the virus and the economy still problems, Biden is going to have the toughest first year of any president since Lincoln.
Doesn’t the President-elect immediately start getting intelligence briefings directly from the IC? It doesn’t matter what the current clown show shreds, the IC can just present the same evidence/report to Biden, can’t they?
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

RunningMn9 wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:20 am
Holman wrote:Just saw pointed out that, when he becomes the nominee, Biden can request a full and complete intelligence briefing. Trump got his in 2016 (and was in fact informed about Russian meddling).

But this is a norm, not a law. Trump's team could deny the briefing to Biden, or they could truncate it or even straight-up lie to him.

I really wonder what evidence they'll be shredding between November and January. Replacing Trump's toadies will be Biden's first job, but the second will be figuring out what actually went down during the past four years.

With all that plus the virus and the economy still problems, Biden is going to have the toughest first year of any president since Lincoln.
Doesn’t the President-elect immediately start getting intelligence briefings directly from the IC? It doesn’t matter what the current clown show shreds, the IC can just present the same evidence/report to Biden, can’t they?
We'll have to see how far Trump's purge of non-loyalists has gone by then. Someone high up will be in charge of preparing and presenting the briefing.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 64079
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LordMortis »

Holman wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:07 am
It wasn't true, and if it was no one tole me, and if they did you didn't get the whole story, which you are not going to get because you'd make it political, aka the "so is your face" defense.
User avatar
$iljanus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12453
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
Location: New England...or under your bed

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by $iljanus »

From the NYT, just who didn’t know that Russia was paying for dead Americans?
WASHINGTON — United States intelligence officers and Special Operations forces in Afghanistan alerted their superiors as early as January to a suspected Russian plot to pay bounties to the Taliban to kill American troops in Afghanistan, according to officials briefed on the matter.

The crucial information that led the spies and commandos to focus on the bounties included the recovery of a large amount of American cash from a raid on a Taliban outpost that prompted suspicions. Interrogations of captured militants and criminals played a central role in making the intelligence community confident in its assessment that the Russians had offered and paid bounties in 2019, another official has said.

Armed with this information, military and intelligence officials have been reviewing American and other coalition combat casualties since early last year to determine whether any were victims of the plot. Four Americans were killed in combat in early 2020, but the Taliban have not attacked American positions since a February agreement to end the long-running war in Afghanistan.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/us/p ... 1a8ffdd726
Black lives matter!

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 8956
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Max Peck »

David Frum with the tl;dr:
davidfrum wrote:Benghazi, but real.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 12336
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Jaymann »

Jaymann wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:49 am This alone make Benghazi look like a picnic. As I said the death toll is not just from the corona virus.
I called it.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68792
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

NBC DFW
Joe Biden attacked President Donald Trump on Saturday over a report that he said, if true, contains a “truly shocking revelation” about the commander in chief and his failure to protect U.S. troops in Afghanistan and stand up to Russia.
...
“The truly shocking revelation that if the Times report is true, and I emphasize that again, is that President Trump, the commander in chief of American troops serving in a dangerous theater of war, has known about this for months, according to the Times, and done worse than nothing,” Biden, the presumptive Democratic nominee, said during a virtual town hall.
...
Biden slammed Trump over his reported failure to act.

“Not only has he failed to sanction and impose any kind of consequences on Russia for this egregious violation of international law, Donald Trump has continued his embarrassing campaign of deference and debasing himself before Vladimir Putin,” the former vice president said.

Biden called it a “betrayal of the most sacred duty we bear as a nation — to protect and equip our troops when we send them into harm’s way.”

He said Americans who serve in the military put their life on the line. “But they should never, never, never ever face a threat like this with their commander in chief turning a blind eye to a foreign power putting a bounty on their heads,” he said.

“I’m quite frankly outraged by the report,” Biden said. He promised that if he is elected, “Putin will be confronted and we’ll impose serious costs on Russia.”
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »



Trump is doubling down on denial that the Russians did anything wrong.

That's a bold move when the reporting has reached the point of Pentagon officials confirming it.
Appearing on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” longtime political columnist David Ignatius said that his own follow-up on the New York Times’ explosive report that Donald Trump’s administration was well aware that the Russians were offering a bounty for the death of U.S. military members revealed that Pentagon officials have “pounding on the door” and trying to get Donald Trump to do something about it.

“Based on my reporting trying to confirm the New York Times’ excellent story it’s clear in late March you had senior U.S commanders, senior civilian intelligence officials, in effect pounding on the door of the White House saying we need to do something about this, we need to come to a conclusion about what damage the Russian program is doing, we need to reassess our programs in Afghanistan and they couldn’t get an answer,” he reported.
Last edited by Holman on Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 19423
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Unagi »

And then he retweets Lindsey , who doing his best to spin this into a (D) Congress problem.

It’s so painfully overt.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 64079
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LordMortis »

Holman wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:14 am Trump is doubling down on denial that the Russians did anything wrong.

Not quite. He's saying the Intel wasn't credible according "intel". One of his typical evasions. "No. I don't take any responsibility at all". A double down on Richard Grenell of leaks and partial reports and not understanding intelligence and playing politics while still evading.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:22 am Not quite. He's saying the Intel wasn't credible according "intel". One of his typical evasions. "No. I don't take any responsibility at all". A double down on Richard Grenell of leaks and partial reports and not understanding intelligence and playing politics while still evading.
Oh, he's a weasel, but there's no doubt "Possibly another fabricated Russia Hoax, maybe by the Fake News NYT" is meant as a denial. "Intel" is just the framing.

The implication is that not only was it not found credible months back (and thus not reported to him), but that it is *still* not something they/he believe is true.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
malchior
Posts: 14573
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior »

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »



Oh hey,Trump is a lying piece of shit who couldn’t care less about troops in harm’s way.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 44409
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Smoove_B »

He knew is 2019:
Top officials in the White House were aware in early 2019 of classified intelligence indicating Russia was secretly offering bounties to the Taliban for the deaths of Americans, a full year earlier than has been previously reported, according to U.S. officials with direct knowledge of the intelligence.

The assessment was included in at least one of President Donald Trump’s written daily intelligence briefings at the time, according to the officials. Then-national security adviser John Bolton also told colleagues he briefed Trump on the intelligence assessment in March 2019.
We should look into this John Bolton guy. What ever happened to him?
I'm so far off the map the sun is shining
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 41512
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by hepcat »

He was busy screwing over his country by refusing to testify so he could save it for a book and make some cash.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic
User avatar
TheMix
Posts: 8323
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:19 pm
Location: Broomfield, Colorado

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by TheMix »

hepcat wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:35 am He was busy screwing over his country by refusing to testify so he could save it for a book and make some cash.
Or perhaps he was paid a bounty? :ninja:
Isgrimnur - Facebook makes you hate your friends and family. LinkedIn makes you hate you co-workers. NextDoor makes you hate your neighbors.
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 41512
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by hepcat »

So THAT'S how Melania was able to renegotiate her prenup.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »



Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 14508
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Zarathud »

That the President doesn’t acknowledge the intel shows his coverup and inaction.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50429
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Zarathud wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:42 am That the President doesn’t acknowledge the intel shows his coverup and inaction.
If Klink and Schultz had a baby, it would be Trump.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 15997
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by pr0ner »

Hodor.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68792
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

TPM
The number of human rights is getting excessive, according Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

As he was unveiling a report by his Commission on Unalienable Rights on Thursday, Pompeo stated that the U.S. is “forced to grapple with the tough choices about which rights to promote.”

“Americans have not only unalienable rights, but also positive rights, rights granted by governments, courts, multilateral bodies. Many are worth defending in light of our founding; others aren’t,” he asserted.

And even within the narrow scope of whatever rights the Trump administration official deems to be worth shielding, some are apparently less important than others.

“Prioritizing which rights to defend is also hard,” he said.
...
“No one can enjoy the pursuit of happiness if you cannot own the fruits of your own labor, and no society can retain its legitimacy or a virtuous character without religious freedom,” the Trump official argued.

He described the report as a guide that “helps us to judge” how other countries violate human rights “that we care most about.”

“More rights does not necessarily mean more justice,” said Pompeo.

Although the secretary did not specify which rights he believed to be superfluous, his “religious liberty” dogwhistle combined with his hardline opposition to abortion and LGBTQ rights further bolster concerns that Pompeo’s purpose behind assembling the “Unalienable Rights” panel was to pursue an anti-abortion and LGBTQ agenda in U.S. foreign policy.
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68792
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
The United States government has abruptly ordered China to "cease all operations and events" at its consulate in Houston, Texas, according to the Chinese Foreign Ministry, in what it called an "unprecedented escalation" in recent actions taken by Washington.

Late Tuesday evening, police in Houston said they responded to reports of smoke in the courtyard outside the consulate, located on Montrose Boulevard, in the city's Midtown area. Local media shared video of what appeared to be officials inside the compound burning documents.

US State Department spokeswoman Morgan Ortagus said the consulate was directed to close "in order to protect American intellectual property and Americans' private information" but did not immediately provide additional details of what prompted the closure. Chinese media reported that the consulate had been given 72 hours to close.
...
US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who was just in Europe rallying leaders to take a harder line with Beijing and meeting with exiled Chinese dissidents, declined to offer details about the decision in remarks Wednesday. But the top US diplomat is set to deliver remarks on China on Thursday at the Richard Nixon Museum and Library in California.
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68792
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
The billionaire NFL owner who serves as President Donald Trump's ambassador to the United Kingdom was investigated by the State Department watchdog after allegations that he made racist and sexist comments to staff and sought to use his government position to benefit the President's personal business in the UK, multiple sources told CNN.

Robert Wood "Woody" Johnson, the top envoy since August 2017 to one of the United States' most important allies, made racist generalizations about Black men and questioned why the Black community celebrates Black History Month, according to exclusive new information shared with CNN by three sources and a diplomat familiar with the complaints to the State Department inspector general.

His comments about women's looks have been "cringeworthy," a source with knowledge of the situation said, and two sources said it was a struggle to get him on board for an event for International Women's Day.
...
Another source recounted that after Johnson returned from a trip to Washington where he met with the President in early 2018, the ambassador told Lukens, who was still deputy chief of mission at that time, that Trump wanted to host The Open at his Turnberry resort in Scotland. Johnson asked which British government officials he could speak to about making that happen, the source said. Johnson brought it up again with Lukens on another occasion not long after, the source noted, and in both cases Lukens told Johnson not to mention the topic to government officials, as doing so would be unethical.
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 5839
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Alefroth »

:shock:
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

Yup. In the Trump era, what should be a career-ending scandal won't even make page five.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33379
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Remus West »

Holman wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:45 pm Yup. In the Trump era, what should be a career-ending scandal won't even make page five.
Given they did not convict him for trying to extort Ukraine in an effort to impact our election why would they care if he exerts pressure on Britain in an effort to make a few bucks? Thats just good business. :grund:
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24905
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
malchior
Posts: 14573
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior »

Trump’s team says he was not verbally briefed on the matter before a June 26 report from the New York Times brought the controversy out into the open.
Yep - one of the defense talking points is that the President doesn't read.
User avatar
Vorret
Posts: 9607
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Drummondville, QC

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Vorret »

I was elected to lead, not to read.

Damn you Simpsons why are you always right.
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
malchior
Posts: 14573
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior »

As an aside, why did it take a British reporter to finally ask this question?

Edit: Also, I just saw a snippet of the interview on Morning Joe and Tom Nichols just called it one of the worst moments for foreign policy in modern history. Tom claimed that Trump has spoken to Putin many times and had internalized and essentially was 'regurgitating Russian talking points'.
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 19166
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Grifman »

Interesting. We all know that Trump is pulling out around 10,000 US troops from Germany. But half of them will be remaining in Europe, half will come back to the US but will eventually be redeployed back to Europe. This move will cost billions, requiring new bases/facilities to be be built. So the question is - if the troops are going to end up in Europe, why move them from Germany? To me it's quite clear - Trump can's stand Merkel (and vice versa) and it's all about punishing her/Germany. And we taxpayers are going to pay billions for it:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/politics ... index.html
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
Post Reply