Racism in America (with data)

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Isgrimnur »

malchior wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 11:27 pm They are literally burning down the 3rd precinct station now. Holy cow.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

I guess we have to chalk it up that when you can't get justice in the courts, they take it on the streets.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Isgrimnur »

I guess they'll just have to issue more bonds to pay for it.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by hitbyambulance »

all i'll say is, this has been a long time coming. MPD needs a Ferguson-style purging.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

I saw some craziness where council members were saying they were going to partially defund the MPD

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Seems not that crazy
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

Unagi wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 11:55 pm Seems not that crazy
Defunding is kind of a weird way to fix your out of control police force. I guess you get them to quit perhaps. :)
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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It's the Las Vegas problem. If you outlaw those that are there, they scatter to the four winds to spread seeds across the nation.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

While on air they saw a crowd flee away from the 3rd precinct towards Ali Velshi. Minutes later, Morgan Chesky reported that there was gun fire from inside the station. Perhaps some of the officers are holed up in there living out a real-life 'Assault on Precinct 13'. Jeez. This is insanity. I remember the LA Riots but this has a completely different feel. Everyone seems to know that anything could spark a fire that could spread to other cities here so the MPD has essentially abandoned the neighborhood.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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The protests have escalated to Columbus, Ohio, where protestors recently broke in to the Ohio Statehouse.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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malchior wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 11:34 pm I guess we have to chalk it up that when you can't get justice in the courts, they take it on the streets.
Lawlessness is lawlessness. Anarchy is anarchy is anarchy. Neither race nor color nor frustration is an excuse for either lawlessness or anarchy - Thurgood Marshall
If by burning down businesses that employ people in their neighborhood, then, yeah, that's justice. The whole thing is sad and senseless. I've seen people online complaining that the police are guarding the home of the police officer who killed Floyd. Do they think a lynching would be more appropriate? I thought we were trying our best, even if imperfectly, to be a nation of laws. They guy deserves whatever penalty the law imposes on him but all of this is going to accomplish very little. And it's already given Trump an excuse to fire up his base with "law and order" tweets.

All that said, it's quite clear that there are far too many bad cops out there, and too many poorly trained cops. I get it, being a cop isn't easy, and they deal with a lot of pretty crappy people doing bad things. I will also note that the fact that there are too many guns out there doesn't make it any easier - the police never know when someone might be armed or not, so that naturally makes them nervous. But if they can't handle that, they shouldn't take the job. But there needs to be a better effort to weed out the bad ones, either before they get hired or afterwards. And they need more training in non-violently resolving confrontations. Somewhere along the way, "To protect and serve" has gotten pushed to the rear.

I don't know what the answer is, but I am saddened that we seem to go through this cycle over and over again, and yet nothing really even changes. After every "disturbance", promises of changes and reform are made, it's gets the attention of politicians for a while, and yet despite it all, a few years go by and it happens again.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

Grifman wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 1:48 am
malchior wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 11:34 pm I guess we have to chalk it up that when you can't get justice in the courts, they take it on the streets.
Lawlessness is lawlessness. Anarchy is anarchy is anarchy. Neither race nor color nor frustration is an excuse for either lawlessness or anarchy - Thurgood Marshall
If by burning down businesses that employ people in their neighborhood, then, yeah, that's justice. The whole thing is sad and senseless. I've seen people online complaining that the police are guarding the home of the police officer who killed Floyd. Do they think a lynching would be more appropriate?
It isn't that the police are guarding the home. There was a *battalion* of police guarding the home he probably wasn't at. There is a video out there. It was an absurd show of force. The outrage is at the police protecting a man who murdered a man much, much more than the community that man injured. In other words they sided with a murderer. It completely reinforced the 'blue gang with badges' narrative.
I thought we were trying our best, even if imperfectly, to be a nation of laws. They guy deserves whatever penalty the law imposes on him but all of this is going to accomplish very little. And it's already given Trump an excuse to fire up his base with "law and order" tweets.
Totally but this nation and this city in particular were tinderboxes after years and years of this pattern. This is like Ferguson again as others said except worse. They've had a number of race incidents.
All that said, it's quite clear that there are far too many bad cops out there, and too many poorly trained cops. I get it, being a cop isn't easy, and they deal with a lot of pretty crappy people doing bad things. I will also note that the fact that there are too many guns out there doesn't make it any easier - the police never know when someone might be armed or not, so that naturally makes them nervous. But if they can't handle that, they shouldn't take the job. But there needs to be a better effort to weed out the bad ones, either before they get hired or afterwards. And they need more training in non-violently resolving confrontations. Somewhere along the way, "To protect and serve" has gotten pushed to the rear.
Unfortunately one of the root causes is that the system is based on race violence. It has been...well forever in this nation. Sure there are bad cops and probably always have been. The system still prioritizes protecting the oppressors *even when they commit obvious crimes in plain daylight*. It also prioritizes property over black lives as this piece contextualizes - from a viewpoint of someone who has walked miles in this system that many of us haven't. The system is the problem. Several good posts up thread show examples of how bad cops are papered over in this nation over and over. National, state, and local police strategy propagates this problem from top to bottom. It is almost ingrained culturally into the forces. Some like the LAPD learned from their riots and improved though probably not enough. And others like the NYPD seem to be constantly devolving.

And the worst part is we can't understand how under boot these people are. Black people are *terrified* of the police. They are *furious* at the police and the government that allows this to happen. You can find videos over and over of police having interactions with black people where what white eyes see is someone not following orders which is the inevitable comment we hear. 'If only they followed instructions' - not getting that this population is traumatized to their core. This system has abused them for so long. I don't agree with the response, I don't understand it, but I do recognize that it happens because *we* allow this system to perpetrate methodical oppression on folks in this society.
I don't know what the answer is, but I am saddened that we seem to go through this cycle over and over again, and yet nothing really even changes. After every "disturbance", promises of changes and reform are made, it's gets the attention of politicians for a while, and yet despite it all, a few years go by and it happens again.
I agree and we happen to have the worst President in American history at the helm and he tonight just flicked a match onto the tinderbox. It wasn't just 'law and order' tweets. They included some that were inappropriate and *racist*. Twitter actually slapped a warning on the damn tweet below that indicates they would normally delete it. It will be amazing in a terrible way to watch the fireworks there. This human shaped pile of shit is going to get us 1967 with coronavirus on top. And the worst part is he probably *wants that*.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Black reporter, though I suspect it's more a product of Trump's war on media than race making this OK, but who knows.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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It was totally 'black reporter'. The police are fully out of control. This was a huge mistake to be honest. It is going to blow up.
Last edited by malchior on Fri May 29, 2020 7:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by LordMortis »

malchior wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 10:33 pm
For the love of all that is good left in this world please tell me this ends up a hoax and is exposed as such before it all burns to the ground, even knowing full well as it being hoax would fan the flames of righteousness on the right.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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I don't know, maybe not. Sometimes I just can't believe how low some will stoop.


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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

It's looking more and more like this is an attempt to kick off some kind of race war.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:23 am I don't know, maybe not. Sometimes I just can't believe how low some will stoop.
Exactly. I'm shaking with rage. I'm totally at fuck the police levels. Arresting a black reporter on the air while he is offering reasonably to move? There is no reason for this other than a show of force.
LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:25 am It's looking more and more like this is an attempt to kick off some kind of race war.
For sure, between the prosecutors idiotic remarks last night, the Trump tweets, and the shit we are seeing this morning. This is full on out of control authoritarian shit hole activity. I can't help but feel a big, big fight coming on.
Last edited by malchior on Fri May 29, 2020 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Grifman wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 1:48 am
But there needs to be a better effort to weed out the bad ones, either before they get hired or afterwards.
Higher pay, higher respect, higher training, higher community involvement, higher standards, more of them to spread the burden of this kind of civil service. They become community sponsors "protecting and serving" as much they are enforcing.

Alas, taxation is theft! so I don't see it happening.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

LordMortis wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:30 am
Grifman wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 1:48 am
But there needs to be a better effort to weed out the bad ones, either before they get hired or afterwards.
Higher pay, higher respect, higher training, higher community involvement, higher standards, more of them to spread the burden of this kind of civil service. They become community sponsors "protecting and serving" as much they are enforcing.

Alas, taxation is theft! so I don't see it happening.
This is not a money issue. This is the way the system works deep in its bones. We need radical, systemic reform to have a chance out of this. And that is impossible considering our politics. This business is going to get out of control.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by LordMortis »

malchior wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:32 am
LordMortis wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:30 am
Grifman wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 1:48 am
But there needs to be a better effort to weed out the bad ones, either before they get hired or afterwards.
Higher pay, higher respect, higher training, higher community involvement, higher standards, more of them to spread the burden of this kind of civil service. They become community sponsors "protecting and serving" as much they are enforcing.

Alas, taxation is theft! so I don't see it happening.
This is not a money issue. This is the way the system works deep in its bones. We need radical, systemic reform to have a chance out of this. And that is impossible considering our politics. This business is going to get out of control.
Without money, you can't expect change. This is like saying the growing teaching crisis is not a money issue. With teaching you expect the love of children and the future to make up for wages. For local law enforcement, it's the love of unchecked power. Training = money. Not being overworked = money. Worry about your kids future while you worry about own safety = money. Having enough police to community civil servants = money.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Unagi »

LordMortis wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:21 am
For the love of all that is good left in this world please tell me this ends up a hoax and is exposed as such before it all burns to the ground, even knowing full well as it being hoax would fan the flames of righteousness on the right.
Prepare for the world where it’s not a hoax.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

LordMortis wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:37 am
malchior wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:32 am
LordMortis wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:30 am
Grifman wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 1:48 am
But there needs to be a better effort to weed out the bad ones, either before they get hired or afterwards.
Higher pay, higher respect, higher training, higher community involvement, higher standards, more of them to spread the burden of this kind of civil service. They become community sponsors "protecting and serving" as much they are enforcing.

Alas, taxation is theft! so I don't see it happening.
This is not a money issue. This is the way the system works deep in its bones. We need radical, systemic reform to have a chance out of this. And that is impossible considering our politics. This business is going to get out of control.
Without money, you can't expect change. This is like saying the growing teaching crisis is not a money issue. With teaching you expect the love of children and the future to make up for wages. For local law enforcement, it's the love of unchecked power. Training = money. Not being overworked = money. Worry about your kids future while you worry about own safety = money. Having enough police to community civil servants = money.
We can throw billions at it. In fact we have. We dump military equipment on the police. We can give them bundles of money. The Federal government gives them grants. Money is not the root cause of the issue. It is far deeper. The legal system has built nearly impossible walls against police accountability. Juries won't convict officers. Pouring money in would just stabilize or worsen the existing system.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

Apparently the Governor saw this and called down to get the man released and apologized already. That doesn't change much. The police arrested a black reporter and ignored a white reporter. The police sent a clear message there and the Governor just got put in a shit position by these out of control police.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:25 am It's looking more and more like this is an attempt to kick off some kind of race war.
They would like to think the lines will be drawn on skin color.

The war that is heating up is about kindness vs hate, liberal vs bigot, our future vs their past.

I cannot believe the things I’m seeing. And yet, it’s plain as fucking day. Look at the drive by tear gas spraying, the black umbrella cop breaking windows, black reporters being singled out and arrested, and what else. Oh yeah, let’s not forget the poor man that was murdered by a cop in plain sight while people begged the cop to stop.

Yes , pull this broken machines funding. Fuck yes.

They are not using their SUVs , tears gas, etc. for public safety , they are abusing the public trust and even fucking sabotaging peace.

“Peace Officers” , My Ass.

Burn their stations to the ground and let the national guard maybe take over. Perhaps the only real way out. This police force is on National Display right now, and it looks like they are truly The bad guy.
Last edited by Unagi on Fri May 29, 2020 8:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

Unless the officers involved with arresting the reporter are suspended (or at least an investigation announced into why they felt that arresting a black reporter on air was smart) then I think it is just more unrest debt that'll be paid out later.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Unagi »

Absolutely.

And even then, I’m sure it can’t be brushed aside even that easily.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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malchior wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 7:51 am the Governor just got put in a shit position by these out of control police.
The above could apply to half a dozen things I heard in the last 24 hours.
Right?
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

I just saw the AG of Minnesota saying they are waiting on a toxicology report. Horse shit. Hip deep horse shit. I get why the black community has no confidence in this system. This is the same bullshit pattern we see over and over. Again if it was a regular person they'd be sitting in jail right now no matter what the toxicology report said. This fucked up system has made it impossible to prosecute officers.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by pr0ner »

Thread. I'm sure this will really piss off Trump.



You'll have to click on the tweet to see it but Twitter put this label on it.
This Tweet violated the Twitter Rules about glorifying violence. However, Twitter has determined that it may be in the public’s interest for the Tweet to remain accessible.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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However Twitter has determined it may be good for revenue if the Tweet remains accessible.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Unagi »

Ladies and Gentlemen, The President of the United States:

“When the looting starts, the shooting starts!”

Gotta have a lot of pride to be in a position to say that to America.

Maybe that should be his slogan.


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“When the looting starts, the shooting starts.”
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

This is a flat out lie. It is was on live fucking tv. This is Trump level lying.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Unagi »

Today is going to be very ugly.

I am a million miles (figuratively) removed from this and I feel compelled to do something. Or at the very least, totally support anyone who does.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Unagi wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 8:39 am

Maybe that should be his slogan.


Trump 2020
“When the looting starts, the shooting starts.”
I'm on board. As long as it also applies to the public trust, federal coffers, and national natural resources.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 8:42 am
Unagi wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 8:39 am

Maybe that should be his slogan.


Trump 2020
“When the looting starts, the shooting starts.”
I'm on board. As long as it also applies to the public trust, federal coffers, and national natural resources.
For me, I'm good as long as the top of the list is Corporate looters and corrupt Senators.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Unagi »

Honestly. Right now, across all of America , Every single Adult black man and woman should go out right now and Legally purchase a gun. A big one, designed to mow down people.

Not to use in the coming race war, but to totally shut down the NRA.

You wanna see some reasonable gun control put into law, Let that happen and watch the NRA fall in a day.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

Good lord. Now the official WH account re-tweeted it. This WH is really digging and taking advantage of this moment. You have to figure Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon are in the wings right now.

Oh btw - I doubt Trump came up with this. They are digging in deep to call back to Nixon-esque strategy here.

Last edited by malchior on Fri May 29, 2020 8:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Unagi wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 8:46 am Honestly. Right now, across all of America , Every single Adult black man and woman should go out right now and Legally purchase a gun. A big one, designed to mow down people.

Not to use in the coming race war, but to totally shut down the NRA.

You wanna see some reasonable gun control put into law, Let that happen and watch the NRA fall in a day.
They can't in illinois. Have to get a FOID first. 60-120 day wait, if your record is clean. Can't in NY, can't in California. Can't in NJ. And that's just "regular" guns. The big scary ones are illegal in Chicago, NYC, Cal, etc.

Can't have a repeat of the Black Panthers.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Skinypupy »

So many white conservative suburbanites asking "why can't they just protest peacefully?" this morning.

Remember, they tried...and you had a problem with that too.
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