Racism in America (with data)

[Blackhawk]

In regards to the discussions of violence, note that I specifically excluded the instigators from my position. That's the groups who come in purely for the violence, who come in purely for the destruction, who come in purely for the looting, and who come purely to push others into those things. Those are opportunistic criminals actively hurting the cause here in order to satisfy their own sadistic and selfish urges. They're separate from the protests, they're blatant criminals, and they deserve to be treated as such.

They are not who I was discussing, and I don't believe that they were who Zaxxon was discussing (disclaimer: I don't speak for Zaxxon.)

[Zaxxon]

They are not who I was discussing, and I don't believe that they were who Zaxxon was discussing (disclaimer: I don't speak for Zaxxon.)

As a general rule, I'm OK with you speaking for me.

[stimpy]

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics ... index.html

My (Insert white supremacy response here) is directed at those that think that the only people that feel that way must be racist.

[malchior]

As BH has said, as I have said, and as I think others here believe, the violence sucks. I certainly don't condone it. But I understand how after years, decades, a century+ of trying the peaceful methods--only to see the country steadily move to empower white nationalists in the past few years--folks whose lives are significantly negatively impacted on a daily basis might think otherwise. Who the hell am I to tell them that they're just going to have to keep on hoping that maybe the next peaceful protest is the one that turns the tide?

One would hope you are an upstanding American that appreciates and values the U.S. constitution and Bill of Rights. Pardon me for pointing this out, but it's unambiguously spelled out in the First Amendment. Americans have the right "peaceably to assemble." If it isn't peaceful, it isn't a lawful protest. It's a violent riot. And violent rioters are criminal enemies of justice and civil liberty.

If only it was this clear in real life. Many of these protests are peaceful for most of the time and then devolve when the sun goes down and the agitators start operating. Even then that hasn't stopped the police from rioting on peaceful protests as documented heavily in this thread. It's violence all around to be honest and a lot of folks are at fault.

You're also leaping to the conclusion that such violent acts of destruction must be reactions against the empowerment of white nationalists, when they're more plausibly described as violent opportunists using the cover of legitimate peaceful protests to enact their nihilistic fantasies.

We don't know enough to discount or think it is white nationalism. However, it certainly is on the table as a partial explanation. Especially since it has been on the rise for years and they've been credibly been seen organizing on the internet. The FBI ignored them in favor of international terrorism and they flourished. It is far more likely it'd be white nationalists than "antifa" at the very least despite the propaganda from Barr and Trump. Yet it could just be lone wolf school shooter types too. We've been lucky that we haven't had an incident with these big crowds yet to be honest.

As flawed as we doubtless remain, let's not forget racial progress has been extraordinary in this country; realistically, has any country on Earth ever tried harder to right the racial wrongs that this country has?

Frankly? Who cares what we as non-black folks think about the progress? Black people are terrorized. They are afraid for their lives every day. Saying there has been progress isn't good enough. Many of us are *fed up* with this system but they are *traumatized*. Violence shouldn't be the solution but if peaceful means don't work then when the violence comes it will in hindsight be unfortunately seen as necessary. Are we there? Doubtful but then again the government is teetering on the edge of a dictatorship so who knows what's next.

[Blackhawk]

They are not who I was discussing, and I don't believe that they were who Zaxxon was discussing (disclaimer: I don't speak for Zaxxon.)

As a general rule, I'm OK with you speaking for me.

Oh, do not go there. I'm nuts, man. I'm effing bonkers!

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics ... index.html

My (Insert white supremacy response here) is directed at those that think that the only people that feel that way must be racist.

What you said:

Solve all???? He didn't solve any. Made them worse, some say. (Insert white supremacy response here).

Sounds an awful lot like you were suggesting he was responsible for that as opposed to being an issue that has been building for decades. And I think that what we were seeing (and why I asked) was that it looked like you were suggesting that the white supremacist backlash to his being elected was his fault.

[Jaymon]

There was a demonstration in my town yesterday. More than 1000 on the streets. An unknown number remained in their cars, cruising in circles with signs, honking and cheering. Most were supporting black lives matter. I saw some city police and sherrifs (I assume from their green uniforms), they had only standard gear, and most of them looked like they wished the demonstrators had picked a cooler day.
thats an impressively large number considering the city population is only 50k.

[morlac]

How much violence have you all experienced? Real, up close violence. Not schoolyard fights but the real stuff that sends people to a hospital? Have you ever committed real violence or had it committed on you? Self defense, whatever?

Prolly not a whole bunch of you. It's not pretty and it stains you, forever. It's easy to write about picking up swords with a pen when that is all you've held.

Change is hard, especially in US politics. We shouldn't give up, Violence won't solve this it will only set us all back.

[LawBeefaroni]

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics ... index.html

My (Insert white supremacy response here) is directed at those that think that the only people that feel that way must be racist.

Overall, 54% say relations between blacks and whites have gotten worse since Obama became president, including 57% of whites and 40% of blacks. That's up sharply compared with last June, when 43% said things had gotten worse shortly after a racially motivated shooting at a black church in Charleston, South Carolina.

Gee, in October 2016 people thought race relations were worse than the previous June? Shocking. Can't imagine what could have been fomenting racial tensions in mid-late 2016.

[malchior]

How much violence have you all experienced? Real, up close violence. Not schoolyard fights but the real stuff that sends people to a hospital? Have you ever committed real violence or had it committed on you? Self defense, whatever?

Prolly not a whole bunch of you. It's not pretty and it stains you, forever. It's easy to write about picking up swords with a pen when that is all you've held.

Raise hand. My college roommates myself included defended a home invasion in our college apartment. A guy kicked in the door and knocked one of my friends clean out with the door and we had a flat out brawl where 95% of the furniture got broken and 3 people went to the hospital. I don't see how that's relevant and I haven't thought about it in 20+ years. Shit happens. We move on. I'm certainly not haunted by it even though I probably hurt someone pretty badly. (I don't know because it was such a melee you couldn't even tell who did what).

Change is hard, especially in US politics. We shouldn't give up, Violence won't solve this it will only set us all back.

Again who is calling for violence. I don't think it is the best way forward however *if* it comes, we may see it was the only way to change. In fact, at that point we wouldn't have moved forward, we'll have moved somewhere else. Will it be better or worse? Hard to say.

Edit: BTW - you know who is calling for violence? The GOP. People like Tom Cotton want to finish off our democracy because even Trump isn't being hard enough.

[Enough]

Are people really diluting their thoughts into thinking that racial tensions were any better under Obama?
Have we all forgotten how divided this country was while he was President and all of the rhetoric by the great orator couldn't fix things or make them better? Why should we care what he has to say now when he couldn't heal things when he had the chance?

Sure. Which comments are you responding to exactly?

The comments that people are breathlessly awaiting his speech, as if anything he has to say will be any different than what he said while he was in charge and couldn't make any measurable change. He'll slam Trump and call for real change, something he himself couldnt achieve.

So that's it? So it's a really bad idea for our first black president to speak at a time like this because he didn't solve all the racial issues by being the first elected black man to hold our highest office? Did you have a problem with GW's op-ed/letter?

Solve all???? He didn't solve any. Made them worse, some say. (Insert white supremacy response here).

FFS dude! Here's some real world for you to chew on...

*First elected black President
*JumpStart Our Business Start-up (JOBS) Act
*Fair Sentencing Act
*My Brother’s Keeper Program
*African American unemployment down by half
*Health care for more African Americans under Obamacare
*Increased Pell Grants by 70%
*Reduced fees on small business loans to 0 and enhanced microloans
*SBA outreach to black businesses for funding with the the Business Smart Toolkit
*FFA increased lending to African Americans by over 50%
*And on and on...

BUT yet you would be correct if you point to opinion polls that show a majority think race relations deteriorated. And this came after Ferguson, Freddie Gray and Michael Brown, if only Obama could have kept that police brutality from happening... even though he made justice/criminal reforms that pushed the ball at least a smidgen unlike the opposite direction Trump is currently taking at high speed. Take a look at the same opinion numbers at the end of his first term before the really brutal police brutality came out in his second term. And take a look at who stopped broader reform that might have helped bring accountability to policing....



I'm sure I missed a bunch of big ones. And let's look at how they interacted with protestors shall we?

[Enough]

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics ... index.html

My (Insert white supremacy response here) is directed at those that think that the only people that feel that way must be racist.

Overall, 54% say relations between blacks and whites have gotten worse since Obama became president, including 57% of whites and 40% of blacks. That's up sharply compared with last June, when 43% said things had gotten worse shortly after a racially motivated shooting at a black church in Charleston, South Carolina.

Gee, in October 2016 people thought race relations were worse than the previous June? Shocking. Can't imagine what could have been fomenting racial tensions in mid-late 2016.

Please see PEW graph in my post above, you are spot on the money.

[Blackhawk]

How much violence have you all experienced? Real, up close violence. Not schoolyard fights but the real stuff that sends people to a hospital? Have you ever committed real violence or had it committed on you? Self defense, whatever?

Prolly not a whole bunch of you. It's not pretty and it stains you, forever. It's easy to write about picking up swords with a pen when that is all you've held.

Change is hard, especially in US politics. We shouldn't give up, Violence won't solve this it will only set us all back.

Plenty. Casino security, private security contractor, nightclub bouncer, corrections officer in a maximum security prison. I've been shot at, I've pointed firearms at people (but thankfully never had to fire), and I've got defensive knife scars on my arm. I have scars on my lip from getting punched so hard that my teeth went right through my flesh. I've broken bones in fights, and have been pepper sprayed in fights (although that was friendly fire.) I even had my vehicle sabotaged once that almost resulted in a head-on with a tree.

But that's not relevant, as none of us are suggesting picking up a sword. We're saying that we're seeing people who have suffered violence their whole lives trying to reason, failing, getting backed into a corner, and that we're seeing them picking up swords. And we're saying that while we don't think it will help, we can't condemn them for doing so when we aren't the ones who have been the targets.

And we're also not suggesting that violence will solve anything. I did say that it has led to positive results in the past, but don't suggest that it is the preferred, or best path to that.

[Tao]

More secret police shenanigans at the WH. Seriously we are deep in authoritarian land here. When they fire Esper they'll almost certainly find someone ok with using the military as police in current state.

Someone posted a photo of the Lincoln Memorial be guarded yesterday, not sure which thread exactly, it was pointed out by a number of folks in the Twitter thread that the individuals doing the guarding had no identifying markings or patches, no name tags, and were wearing a hodge-podge of uniforms and equipment. I believe it was also pointed out already in one of the threads that in some photo's police had name tags and badge numbers covered. All of which I believe is illegal in some states and also required by the military.

[Blackhawk]

The thing that this graph shows, more than anything else, is that it was his election, not his Presidency that hurt race relations. Wonder why?

[Smoove_B]

How to Talk to Relatives Who Care More About Looting Than Black Lives from Vice:

If you're not Black but want to support BLM, having fraught conversations with your kinda (or definitely) racist loved ones will likely not be fun, but it’s a very worthy undertaking.

...

If you, a non-Black person, know that Black lives matter, but your parents or other relatives (or friends, or chosen family) fall squarely into the camp of, “I support their right to protest... as long as they do it on my specific terms! And, yeah, I think Colin Kaepernick was also doing it wrong, what of it?”… well, you’ve got your work cut out for you.

[Anonymous Bosch]

You're also leaping to the conclusion that such violent acts of destruction must be reactions against the empowerment of white nationalists, when they're more plausibly described as violent opportunists using the cover of legitimate peaceful protests to enact their nihilistic fantasies.

I am making no such leap. Clearly some (much? most?) of the violence has been opportunistic. That does not imply that none of it is in reaction to the escalating frustration felt by the oppressed.

Nor does it imply that it does.

As flawed as we doubtless remain, let's not forget racial progress has been extraordinary in this country; realistically, has any country on Earth ever tried harder to right the racial wrongs that this country has?

Uhh. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this. Can you elaborate? Because we've made some progress, we're neat and things are swell and jolly? I don't believe that's what you mean, but if it's not, then I'm not sure how it serves to suggest that continuing with the tried-and-failed methods of protest would have sufficed. It's clearly true that the country as a whole has not taken racial equality anywhere near truly seriously, certainly not in my lifetime (which began well after the Civil Rights era).

Rest assured, I know how to use words, and require no re-interpretation.

Just to clarify, I was referring to the price in blood to end slavery that resulted in the Civil War, which brought about the Emancipation Proclamation as American democracy expanded to include people who had been enslaved only a few years before. And just because progress was achieved by the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation, that clearly and obviously did not mean "things were swell and jolly," hence the necessity of the Civil Rights Movement throughout the 20th century. Yes, this country is still far from perfect in terms of racial injustice. But upstanding Americans still ought to condemn nihilistic acts of violence for what they truly are. It's really not difficult to condemn both the repugnant murder of George Floyd at the knee of a Minneapolis LEO as well as the subsequent destruction and financial ruin of who knows how many innocent small business owners across the country, many of which are minority-owned:

Many of the small business owners interviewed by ABC News discussed the incredible hardships they experienced and the sacrifices they made to establish their businesses in the first place.

In general, minority-owned businesses have faced additional challenges, beginning with securing bank loans and capital. A 2016 study by the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research determined that startups by people of color report, on average, substantially higher levels of loan denials than their white counterparts.

It is precisely because of such adversities and difficulties that Kareef Johnston, owner and manager of Shoe Mountain in Tampa, Florida, is particularly frustrated. "We started our retail store from humble beginnings selling clothing and shoes in 2004 out of the flea market in Tampa," he told ABC News, adding that this continued until he was able to move to a store front plaza, and ultimately, to a new location in September 2019.

"On Saturday, there was a protest to bring about change to not only our community but the entire world as it relates to police brutality, racial injustice and systemic racism. But as the night fell, those protesters became overshadowed by opportunists. Around 50 individuals rushed our black-owned small business that has been around for about 15 plus years, destroying and taking over a few hundred thousand [dollars] in merchandise."

"We have to understand our black-owned business is exactly what we are protesting for: black ownership and black people creating institutions to provide and employ for our own, access to capital, elimination of redlining, desegregation, equality in all spaces and arenas," Johnston said. "We are not here to tell anyone how to grieve, but we believe the moment we allow selfish desires for material goods trump our purposeful and warranted rage it only contributes to the detriment of black owned business, this cannot be considered anything but a loss."

...

Raphael Kim, owner of Gomi, a Korean wine bar in New York City, is disheartened, and told ABC News, "I really don't know what the future of my business is." During the shutdown, he said, "We have been doing 10% to 20% of what we normally would do. It's just really, really even difficult to survive."

Between 2 a.m. and 3 a.m. on Monday, the entire facade of his store was destroyed, and money was stolen from the cash register.

Also in the early hours of Monday morning, Anna Barounis, a Greek immigrant, and the longtime owner of Giorgiana's, a small neighborhood market and deli in Boston's South End, saw on social media that her store was ransacked.

Throughout the pandemic, she worked alone, because her employees were fearful of getting sick. According to Barounis, approximately 50 teenagers, carrying baseball bats and sledgehammers, looted and damaged the property. She has been told by investigators that they were likely from out of state.

"I've never been so devastated," Barounis told ABC News. "We were never vandalized like this ever in over 49 years, so it was really shocking."

[Zaxxon]

Unfortunately, you've confirmed that we're not going to see eye to eye on this.

[Enough]

As flawed as we doubtless remain, let's not forget racial progress has been extraordinary in this country; realistically, has any country on Earth ever tried harder to right the racial wrongs that this country has?

Uhh. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this. Can you elaborate? Because we've made some progress, we're neat and things are swell and jolly? I don't believe that's what you mean, but if it's not, then I'm not sure how it serves to suggest that continuing with the tried-and-failed methods of protest would have sufficed. It's clearly true that the country as a whole has not taken racial equality anywhere near truly seriously, certainly not in my lifetime (which began well after the Civil Rights era).

Rest assured, I know how to use words, and require no re-interpretation.

Just to clarify, I was referring to the price in blood to end slavery that resulted in the Civil War, which brought about the Emancipation Proclamation as American democracy expanded to include people who had been enslaved only a few years before. And just because progress was achieved by the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation, that clearly and obviously did not mean "things were swell and jolly," hence the necessity of the Civil Rights Movement throughout the 20th century. Yes, this country is still far from perfect in terms of racial injustice. But upstanding Americans still ought to condemn nihilistic acts of violence for what they truly are.

I think this is mostly entirely reasonable on the point that we have made progress, as is the frustration it's not much, much more by this point. Incremental change is unfortunately what we get 98% of the time and it's not always easy to see the hour hand moving in real time.

And it's also hard to not to see that some of the most significant progress we have made as a country only occurred in violent times like the race riots of the 60s, not to mention the Civil War and the riots against the British. The 1968 Civil Rights Housing law came like what, seven days after continual violent race riots across the US after MLK was assassinated?

On a different note, I've been asking my elders for perspective on how the riots of the 60s compare to now. One elder parent says it was far more violent and worse back then (served as a national guardsmen at 60s protests) and another elder who was not active duty but also armed forces thinks these riots are scarier (I sort of agree given the pandemic and unemployment, etc). So condemn away, but don't act like violence very similar to what we are currently experiencing today has not resulted in the very same improvements in the past that you cite.

[Smoove_B]

And more on that helicopter:

We've been getting a lot of questions regarding the use of a helicopter with a red cross emblem to disperse crowds at a Washington, D.C. protest. This helicopter does not belong to the American Red Cross. Here’s the story
⬇

When the Red Cross has to clarify that their helicopter was not being used to promote a "show of force" against protestors in America as it would violate the Geneva Conventions..JFC. I'm so glad we have that highlight reel of all the GOP Senators with no comment or too busy to comment because they were heading to lunch.

[LawBeefaroni]

More secret police shenanigans at the WH. Seriously we are deep in authoritarian land here. When they fire Esper they'll almost certainly find someone ok with using the military as police in current state.

Someone posted a photo of the Lincoln Memorial be guarded yesterday, not sure which thread exactly, it was pointed out by a number of folks in the Twitter thread that the individuals doing the guarding had no identifying markings or patches, no name tags, and were wearing a hodge-podge of uniforms and equipment. I believe it was also pointed out already in one of the threads that in some photo's police had name tags and badge numbers covered. All of which I believe is illegal in some states and also required by the military.

Who is going to call them on it?


Plus, it's not illegal if your not the police or US military. Are they Academi or FSG? I wouldn't bet more than $25 against it.

[morlac]

It's really not difficult to condemn both the repugnant murder of George Floyd at the knee of a Minneapolis LEO as well as the subsequent destruction and financial ruin of who knows how many innocent small business owners across the country,

Apparently not around here without being labelled a racist....thanks Smoove that certainly helps the discussion.

[LawBeefaroni]

How to Talk to Relatives Who Care More About Looting Than Black Lives from Vice:

If you're not Black but want to support BLM, having fraught conversations with your kinda (or definitely) racist loved ones will likely not be fun, but it’s a very worthy undertaking.

...

If you, a non-Black person, know that Black lives matter, but your parents or other relatives (or friends, or chosen family) fall squarely into the camp of, “I support their right to protest... as long as they do it on my specific terms! And, yeah, I think Colin Kaepernick was also doing it wrong, what of it?”… well, you’ve got your work cut out for you.

I've often argued politics heatedly with my parents but they are surprising me with their open mindedness and I'm proud of them for finding their own way despite coming from some subtle but ingrained Northside Chicago racism. My dad drives a Prius in the hills of Tennessee and my mom put an Obama sticker on it. She's actually getting to liberal for me.

[Smoove_B]

Apparently not around here without being labelled a racist....thanks Smoove that certainly helps the discussion.

I am genuinely not calling anyone out on anything in this thread for anything. My post just happened to come in during a series of exchanges. Apologies if you (or anyone) thought I was trying to be cheeky; I saw the article and thought about the things I've heard my relatives say and figured I'd share.

[Zaxxon]

Apparently not around here without being labelled a racist....thanks Smoove that certainly helps the discussion.

I am genuinely not calling anyone out on anything in this thread for anything. My post just happened to come in during a series of exchanges. Apologies if you (or anyone) thought I was trying to be cheeky; I saw the article and thought about the things I've heard my relatives say and figured I'd share.

FWIW, I didn't take it as you calling anyone out, and I found the article worth a read.

[LordMortis]

How to Talk to Relatives Who Care More About Looting Than Black Lives
If you, a non-Black person, know that Black lives matter, but your parents or other relatives (or friends, or chosen family) fall squarely into the camp of, “I support their right to protest... as long as they do it on my specific terms! And, yeah, I think Colin Kaepernick was also doing it wrong, what of it?”… well, you’ve got your work cut out for you.

That wasn't very satisfying. I've lost that battle. I hashtag walk away when the talk starts and pretty much avoid a chunk of my relatives now.

Be prepared to set boundaries

I try the two big boundaries I always try to set are: 1) Don't control language. 2) Don't subject hop. When those boundaries can't be set then we can't have a conversation... And those boundaries never get respected and tictactoe walkaway. I'm too weak. I don't know to respond. I don't know how to listen or talk. I start losing my composure.

[Blackhawk]

Who is going to call them on it?


Plus, it's not illegal if your not the police or US military. Are they Academi or FSG? I wouldn't bet more than $25 against it.

I've read theories based on their visible insignia that they're a prison SRT team. That's a team in a prison that's specially trained specifically for combative prisoners and riots.

[hepcat]

Just caught up on some of this thread’s latest developments. I find it startling that someone seemingly believes that Obama made race relations worse in this country. The only way I can even begin to fathom that is if we’re viewing his presidency solely through they eyes of those who didn’t like the color of his skin.

[$iljanus]

I’m looking forward to reading the unhinged tweets that the Toddler will be typing after General Mattis’ statement.

[malchior]

Just caught up on some of this thread’s latest developments. I find it startling that someone seemingly believes that Obama made race relations worse in this country. The only way I can even begin to fathom that is if we’re viewing his presidency solely through they eyes of those who didn’t like the color of his skin.

I'd totally buy that a certain President and political parties reaction to Obama being President made race relations worse. So it is Obama's fault from a certain point of view. Thanks Obama.

[Skinypupy]

Just caught up on some of this thread’s latest developments. I find it startling that someone seemingly believes that Obama made race relations worse in this country. The only way I can even begin to fathom that is if we’re viewing his presidency solely through they eyes of those who didn’t like the color of his skin.

“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression”

That quote has been rattling around my head a lot these days, especially in regards to the ever-increasing “white privilege doesn’t exist” crowd.

[Kraken]

Just caught up on some of this thread’s latest developments. I find it startling that someone seemingly believes that Obama made race relations worse in this country. The only way I can even begin to fathom that is if we’re viewing his presidency solely through they eyes of those who didn’t like the color of his skin.

Have we all forgotten the Beer Summit already?

(I can't keep up with this thread and am just skimming now.)

[Zaxxon]

Boy, the NYT sure is full of the bullshit today.



Apparently the 'counter-argument' to systemically-oppressed Black folks protesting is 'fuck those folks, bring on the martial law led by an avowed autocrat!'

And also, that's an 'argument' to be taken serioisly by the Paper of Record.

[malchior]

I dropped this in the Deathwatch thread. A ton of black NY Times staff posted a series of dissent tweets and were joined by many of their colleagues. That prompted the Bennet response which is patently inadequate. There was no need for a debate on martial law especially in light that the *same person* called for extrajudicial murder just days ago. In my mind it is just another broken American institution. It also is kicking off a discussion where a bunch of the media essentially thinks that people in a position to promote policy should have their message heard so we can decide. No matter how terrible it is. That sounds great in a perfect world but this is far from it. Tom Cotton has plenty of platforms to push his murder US civilians in the streets message. The NY Times shouldn't be one of them. Fuckin' hell.

Edit: A clear indicator the NY Times knew this was going to be a rough ride? They turned off comments when they posted it.

[LordMortis]

Just caught up on some of this thread’s latest developments. I find it startling that someone seemingly believes that Obama made race relations worse in this country. The only way I can even begin to fathom that is if we’re viewing his presidency solely through they eyes of those who didn’t like the color of his skin.

I think Obama being president did put a strain on race relations in the country. And that's only further evidence of how bad it is. Of how much power bigots are able to seize when they feel threatened. In November of 2015 I had hoped it was darkest before the dawn. Now that hope is hard to hold on to. I think, look at the last 100 years. It has to be getting better. Then I look at the last 100 weeks and, nope.

[Paingod]

How much violence have you all experienced? Real, up close violence.

Does working Corrections count? I personally handled murderers, rapists, child molesters, gang members, wife beaters, arsonists, drug dealers, and all manner of absolutely "innocent" people. I've had to help restrain people with nothing left to lose. I dealt with situations where inmates had to be rushed with shields out, and talked people down from wanting to attack someone else. I've watched a man with full-blown AIDS smear feces all over his room. I've intensely checked the scrotums and ass cracks of dozens of men, and it's not really something I'm into.

If it's just personal violence, I'm low on that. I once had a guy hit me over the head with a 2x4 and when I didn't crumple and instead just turned around he ran like hell and I couldn't catch him; my friends thought that was hilarious.

I mean - did I pass qualification to continue in the discussion or should I leave?

[Unagi]

Are people really diluting their thoughts into thinking that racial tensions were any better under Obama?
Have we all forgotten how divided this country was while he was President and all of the rhetoric by the great orator couldn't fix things or make them better? Why should we care what he has to say now when he couldn't heal things when he had the chance?

Sure. Which comments are you responding to exactly?

The comments that people are breathlessly awaiting his speech, as if anything he has to say will be any different than what he said while he was in charge and couldn't make any measurable change. He'll slam Trump and call for real change, something he himself couldnt achieve.

So that's it? So it's a really bad idea for our first black president to speak at a time like this because he didn't solve all the racial issues by being the first elected black man to hold our highest office? Did you have a problem with GW's op-ed/letter?

Solve all???? He didn't solve any. Made them worse, some say. (Insert white supremacy response here).

Do you agree with "some"? Which problems do you and "some" believe made worse?

What do you think about the Obama administration's consent decrees with police departments to curtail police brutality? Also, what did you think of the administration's report on and related consent decrees related to Ferguson?

He will never answer this.

This gets much much too close to him being cornered and he will pretend he didn’t see it or doesn’t need to address it, but it’s a wonderful question.

[malchior]

NYPD - wtf



Meanwhile, 200+ DeBlasio's staffers have penned an open letter which is essentially a vote of no confidence in his abilities as Mayor regarding police oversight.

[$iljanus]

NYPD - wtf



Meanwhile, 200+ DeBlasio's staffers have penned an open letter which is essentially a vote of no confidence in his abilities as Mayor regarding police oversight.

The NYPD is pretty powerful in NYC politics but his almost hands off approach coupled with his awful response to the Coronavirus pandemic in the early days will be the end of his administration come election time.

[Skinypupy]

I always knew Drew Brees was on the "Murica, Fuck Yeah!" end of the spectrum, but I was a little surprised to see him pull the "not allowed to protest like that" card this week, of all times.

He decided to backtrack all of it yesterday after getting completely blasted by, well, everybody.

"In an attempt to talk about respect, unity, and solidarity centered around the American flag and the national anthem, I made comments that were insensitive and completely missed the mark on the issues we are facing right now as a country," Brees said Thursday. "They lacked awareness and any type of compassion or empathy. Instead, those words have become divisive and hurtful and have misled people into believing that somehow I am an enemy. This could not be further from the truth, and is not an accurate reflection of my heart or my character."

[LawBeefaroni]