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Racism in America (with data)

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Kasey Chang »

Regarding Costco Kent... (I am attempting NOT to use his name)

My thought, after a few days, is still a bit of muted-stunned disbelief... as in how can someone be THIS stupid?

One does not casually go shop at CostCo with a CCW "to assert one's right to go mask-free" and he wasn't even confronted by staff. There are some DELIBERATENESS involved. It is not a spur of the moment decision, or moment of insanity.

Yet it really makes no sense for someone to wake up one morning and say to oneself "I'll go exercise my CCW and mask-free rights at a Walmart CostCo, and be threatened by an old-lady talking to me."

Is it the water in Florida, or a combination of His Trumpiness Racist-in-Chief and the water?
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Kraken »

Wow, great video. But I missed the memo: is "Dixie" politically incorrect now?

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Unagi »

I think it’s because the song was the rallying cry of the confederacy

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by LordMortis »

Kraken wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:44 am
Wow, great video. But I missed the memo: is "Dixie" politically incorrect now?
Again, I always thought Dixie just meant south of the Mason Dixon and then song about being there but it shows I know...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_(song)

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Skinypupy »

Kraken wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:44 am
Wow, great video. But I missed the memo: is "Dixie" politically incorrect now?
Dixie State University in southern Utah has been strongly considering a name change, which has the usual suspects up in arms about "political correctness".
The university has faced scrutiny in the past over its name, but it resisted changing. Settlers from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, many of them from the South, moved to the St. George area in the 1800s. The university’s decision to revisit the issue comes amid a national outcry against racial injustice and police brutality following the death of George Floyd.

The local chapter of the NAACP has been among those urging a name change.

Dixie State has taken steps in recent years to remove some imagery related to the Confederacy. In 2009, the school dropped the “Rebels” nickname. A statue depicting a soldier on horseback waving a Confederate flag with one hand and reaching out to a wounded soldier with the other was removed in 2012.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by El Guapo »

LordMortis wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:21 am
Kraken wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:44 am
Wow, great video. But I missed the memo: is "Dixie" politically incorrect now?
Again, I always thought Dixie just meant south of the Mason Dixon and then song about being there but it shows I know...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_(song)
I dunno. From this it seems like Dixie's primarily associated with the south. The term came about during the time of slavery to the south, but the direct tie to slavery is pretty small. This seems weak.

My official ruling is that people can keep using the term dixie. That should settle the issue definitively.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Holman »

"Dixie" is technically just a term for the region, but (speaking as a Southerner) I think the associations with the Old South and the Confederacy are very strong. Just hearing the term immediately makes me think of the Antebellum era rather than, say, Hartsfield Airport.

The song "Dixie Land" of course isn't the origin of the term, but it's the most commonly known carrier of it. There are several different versions of the song that float around, but the lyrics always have these lines:
Oh, I wish I was in the land of cotton
Old times there are not forgotten
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land

I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land, I'll take my stand
To live and die in Dixie
Away, away, away down south in Dixie
Away, away, away down south in Dixie
Away, away, away down south in Dixie
This is pretty clearly nostalgia for the Old South, from the cotton to the "I'll take my stand" (which was then adopted as a slogan by Southern political/cultural reactionaries after the war). Even "look away" (which is "look a ways," i.e. to the far distance) seems to connote looking back.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Dixie cups are now owned by the Koch brothers, so that won’t be going away any time soon.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

No more whistling Dixie.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by LordMortis »

El Guapo wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:18 am
LordMortis wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:21 am
Kraken wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:44 am
Wow, great video. But I missed the memo: is "Dixie" politically incorrect now?
Again, I always thought Dixie just meant south of the Mason Dixon and then song about being there but it shows I know...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_(song)
I dunno. From this it seems like Dixie's primarily associated with the south. The term came about during the time of slavery to the south, but the direct tie to slavery is pretty small. This seems weak.

My official ruling is that people can keep using the term dixie. That should settle the issue definitively.
I'm still pretty ignorant but I was taken back a bit by the origins of the song and the song writer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Emmett

I am also taken a bit back by the Americana song selection we had for music class in elementary school.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polly_Wolly_Doodle

Can you imagine your 2nd grade music teacher providing context for these songs by using blackface?

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Skinypupy »

If you haven't seen Kimberly Jones' "Monopoly Analogy" video yet, I would strongly recommend you take 6 minutes and watch it.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Yahoo
Amazon.com Inc <AMZN.O> is pulling Washington Redskins merchandise from its website, with sellers given 48 hours to review and remove any products flagged by the e-commerce giant, according to a note sent to sellers by the company.
...
Amazon's action follows that of other retailers such as Walmart Inc <WMT.N>, Target Corp <TGT.N> and Nike Inc <NKE.N>.

Top sponsors, including PepsiCo Inc <PEP.O> and FedEx Corp <FDX.N>, who have the naming rights to the NFL team's Landover, Maryland, stadium, called for a change last week.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Little Raven »

Skinypupy wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:18 am
I watched it. And she did a great job of expressing anger about what she has lost - but I think I missed the part about a solution.

From the context of her speech, I guess we're talking reparations. Which is conversation I'm happy to have, but doing that with Native Americans suggests that will get....complicated.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Little Raven wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:58 pm
I watched it. And she did a great job of expressing anger about what she has lost - but I think I missed the part about a solution.
I doubt that her intent was to provide a solution, but rather to help articulate the problem that so many seem to be disregarding as non-existent.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by coopasonic »

I'd suggest the first step would be to honor the contract. Perhaps have LEOs and the judiciary read over the 4th amendment again, stop the over-policing of black communities and militarization of law enforcement that was brought on by the war on drugs, stop disenfranchisement. Police brutality is only the most obvious piece of the problem. Get the system's knee off the neck of black people.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by LordMortis »

Skinypupy wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:13 pm
Little Raven wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:58 pm
I watched it. And she did a great job of expressing anger about what she has lost - but I think I missed the part about a solution.
I doubt that her intent was to provide a solution, but rather to help articulate the problem that so many seem to be disregarding as non-existent.
I think she implied some ideas of solution (or paths the need to be found) and none of it was reparations. For my ear, it was plea/demand for a reason to be invested. To be part of the "pursuit of happiness" (much less for life and liberty). When reviewing the "why" of economics she was pretty clear to me that she is asking for the work to be given its share of the fruits of your labor, a better wage, and the beyond the economic solution a cultural critical mass where the ability to have successes beyond making a basic living not be viewed as achieved by affirmative action.

A don't know that it was problem/solution speech so much as an emote. I think the end wraps it up with a bow, it not reparations or re setting the board. It's not revenge. It's equality. She states it is about economic equality but she's also also pretty explicit about cultural equality as well.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Little Raven »

LordMortis wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:41 pm
I think she implied some ideas of solution (or paths the need to be found) and none of it was reparations. For my ear, it was plea/demand for a reason to be invested.
She seems pretty damn upset about what happened at Tulsa. (justifiably, I might add) To me, a great deal of her speech (the entire Monopoly bit) is about how black Americans have never had the chance to build economic wealth, and they are now hopelessly far behind. You can't win at Monopoly if your opponent has been playing the last 50 turns buying up the board by himself. The only way to make the game fair again is to shuffle the board.

I also heard almost nothing in her speech about over-policing. Don't get me wrong, fixing law enforcement is great idea regardless of anything else we do, but it's not going to do anything about systemic racism. That all goes back to the system.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Little Raven wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:58 pm
I think I missed the part about a solution.
In the 6 minutes allotted to them in a YouTube video, I think it's okay for people who are being segregated, intimidated, and murdered by those who are sworn to protect them to express rage at the concept and underlying causes without needing to provide a concrete solution.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Little Raven »

Paingod wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:12 pm
In the 6 minutes allotted to them in a YouTube video, I think it's okay for people who are being segregated, intimidated, and murdered by those who are sworn to protect them to express rage at the concept and underlying causes without needing to provide a concrete solution.
Again, did you watch her speech?

She never talks about segregation, or being intimidated, or being brutalized by law enforcement. And I suspect there's a very good reason for that. Those may be problems, but they are not the problems she is complaining about here. She is mad that black Americans have been cheated. For hundreds of years, the system has stolen their ability to create wealth, and several times, when they managed to overcome this disadvantage and actually build wealth, it has actively crushed them. And NOT by overpolicing. Tulsa was NOT a police action. It was the system. I'm not expecting her to have a solution, although I would love her input on one. Because I have some ideas how about how we can reform law enforcement, and I suspect that will make life a little better for everyone, but it's not going to do anything about the history or the system she's complaining about. Hell, it'll just be one more way for people to say "Well, we fixed it. You're an equal player now!" when she knows that's a lie, and always will be.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:17 am
This may have been my favorite one yet. Wish it had been longer, actually.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by AWS260 »

An excellent piece by the former mayor of Minneapolis.
Democrats have largely led big and midsize cities for much of the past half-century. Yet the gaps in socioeconomic outcomes between white people and people of color are by several measures at their worst in the richest, bluest cities of the United States.

How could this be? Because high-profile cultural conservatives ask this question so disingenuously, white liberals have generally brushed aside this reality rather than grappled with its urgency.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Kasey Chang »

Latest Trump-ites tactic... discredit the Restaurant Ken incident video as "deepfaked".

We've all heard of ML now where his racist rant against an Asian family in a restaurant sparked outrage. But it seems he has fans and defenders (at least on reddit, and perhaps, elsewhere on social media) who are circulating rumors that the video was a "deepfake" by his business rivals. Never mind the company's not worth much or he's not much of a "tech CEO" to start with, or ML himself has apologized and the incident was confirmed by the restaurant. A conspiracy theorist has to conspire...
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Little Raven »

This really does deserve a read. Thanks for posting it.

My wife and I were discussing the school system in Austin today, which is horribly segregated. I asked her how that can be fixed, and she said "Well, the two traditional approaches are busing and/or selective redistricting. Both will get you sued into oblivion by parents. Everyone wants equality until it's their kid that has to get a substandard education, or their house that has to take a 30% drop in value." :(
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by AWS260 »

The public school system in NYC is horribly segregated. I'm glad that my district is one of the city's leaders in taking proactive steps to increase integration, although it will only affect my son once he hits middle school (he's headed to fifth grade in the fall).

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Isgrimnur »

I'm sure the Executive Order on the White House Hispanic Prosperity Initiative will make everything better in this country.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Little Raven wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:37 pm
This really does deserve a read. Thanks for posting it.

It's pretty on point.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Paingod »

Little Raven wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:22 pm
Paingod wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:12 pm
In the 6 minutes allotted to them in a YouTube video, I think it's okay for people who are being segregated, intimidated, and murdered by those who are sworn to protect them to express rage at the concept and underlying causes without needing to provide a concrete solution.
Again, did you watch her speech?

She never talks about segregation, or being intimidated, or being brutalized by law enforcement.
Did you? Segregation and intimidation are some of the tools of oppression that were used after the first 400 rounds of Monopoly. She doesn't need to speak those words for it to be understood.
being brutalized by law enforcement.
Check video: 5:30. "...the person who is the authority comes in and they fix the situation, but the person who fixes the situation is killing us." ... She doesn't say police, but there's absolutely no doubt who she's talking about. If singling out a group of people and killing them isn't brutalizing them, I don't know what is.

It feels to me like we're on the same side, but you're arguing semantics because I extrapolated from the video and you're taking it literally. I mean, you get that they weren't playing Monopoly for 400 years, right? It's all a metaphor. :D
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by El Guapo »

Paingod wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:54 am
I mean, you get that they weren't playing Monopoly for 400 years, right?
But god, having to literally play Monopoly for 400 years is one of the worst forms of brutalization that I can imagine.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Every fifty years, you get to switch to a new themed version.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:44 am
Every fifty years, you get to switch to a new themed version.
If you would stop putting damn money on free parking the games wouldn't take 50 years!
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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coopasonic wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:54 am
Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:44 am
Every fifty years, you get to switch to a new themed version.
If you would stop putting damn money on free parking the games wouldn't take 50 years!
Also I don't think I have ever played with anyone who uses the rules that any time you don't buy a property it goes up for auction, and I think that works to shorten the game as well.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by coopasonic »

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:00 am
coopasonic wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:54 am
Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:44 am
Every fifty years, you get to switch to a new themed version.
If you would stop putting damn money on free parking the games wouldn't take 50 years!
Also I don't think I have ever played with anyone who uses the rules that any time you don't buy a property it goes up for auction, and I think that works to shorten the game as well.
Monopoly issues are systemic and continue to be ignored through ignorance (ugh, words), just like the issues preventing most BIPOC from thriving in America (super subtle effort to get us back on track).
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by El Guapo »

coopasonic wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:07 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:00 am
coopasonic wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:54 am
Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:44 am
Every fifty years, you get to switch to a new themed version.
If you would stop putting damn money on free parking the games wouldn't take 50 years!
Also I don't think I have ever played with anyone who uses the rules that any time you don't buy a property it goes up for auction, and I think that works to shorten the game as well.
Monopoly issues are systemic and continue to be ignored through ignorance (ugh, words), just like the issues preventing most BIPOC from thriving in America (super subtle effort to get us back on track).
And the metaphor comes full circle. Good job, everyone.

Also Monopoly was developed long enough ago that I assume that there were some egregious acts of racism involved somewhere in its development, sale, and/or distribution processes.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Remus West »

Monopoly only becomes a good game when you add in Nuclear War and Nuclear Escalation to make NUCLEAR MONOPOLY which was a near never ending game but totally fun.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Holman »

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:10 am
Also Monopoly was developed long enough ago that I assume that there were some egregious acts of racism involved somewhere in its development, sale, and/or distribution processes.
Fun Fact: the game that became Monopoly was first developed as The Landlord's Game, a teaching tool about the economic faults and inherent inequality of capitalism.

The game today still follows the same pattern, but it is of course marketed as competitive fun.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Little Raven »

Paingod wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:54 am
She doesn't say police, but there's absolutely no doubt who she's talking about.
The way that you zero in on one line out of a 6 minute speech is indicative of the point I'm trying to make.

A lot of people seem to think that police reform is the goal here. I'm deeply dubious of that. Police reform would be great, of course, but not only will that not materially help this woman "win" - if the theories about systemic racism are correct, it won't do much of anything at all...because police violence is a symptom of the problem, not a cause. The bit AWS posted from the Mayor of Minneapolis sums it up wonderfully - the entire power structure, even in America's most liberal cities, is constantly pressuring law enforcement to "preserve white comfort." That won't change just because you tell the police to be nicer. If there's one thing we've seen over the last couple of centuries, it's that the system will find a way. Heck, it's been (mostly) illegal to discriminate against minorities for almost 50 years now, but the situation remains largely unchanged. When it comes to systemic racism, police reform is a stop-gap at best, and a distraction at worst. It will make whites feel better for a while, and it might (temporarily) save a George Floyd or two, but it won't help blacks win.

We're on the same side, but I'm not arguing semantics. I think this woman is making a very salient point, and one much, much deeper than "ACAB."
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Paingod »

Little Raven wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:38 pm
Paingod wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:54 am
She doesn't say police, but there's absolutely no doubt who she's talking about.
The way that you zero in on one line out of a 6 minute speech is indicative of the point I'm trying to make.
Your absolutely intense focus on police like that was all I talked about made me go back and re-read my original post to see where the hell I was so focused that you thought I was making it strictly about that.

I think I see the problem. I had a line that had related but not compounded items in a list and it seems to have muddied things for you.
Paingod wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:12 pm
In the 6 minutes allotted to them in a YouTube video,
  • I think it's okay for people who are being segregated to express rage at the concept and underlying causes without needing to provide a concrete solution.
  • I think it's okay for people who are being intimidated to express rage at the concept and underlying causes without needing to provide a concrete solution.
  • I think it's okay for people who are being murdered by those who are sworn to protect them to express rage at the concept and underlying causes without needing to provide a concrete solution.
I called out three things she touched on in some manner as a quick response to you because I felt your comment "I think I missed the part about a solution." was pretty damn snide after someone poured their heart out to express anger and grief. Now that I understand your confusion, I don't think this particular back and forth needs to continue in a thread about racism.
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hepcat
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by hepcat »

Ooof. Tucker Carlson's top writer is racist even by Fox News standards.
Just this week, the writer, Blake Neff, responded to a thread started by another user in 2018 with the subject line, "Would u let a JET BLACK congo n****er do lasik eye surgery on u for 50% off?" Neff wrote, "I wouldn't get LASIK from an Asian for free, so no." (The subject line was not censored on the forum.) On June 5, Neff wrote, "Black doods staying inside playing Call of Duty is probably one of the biggest factors keeping crime down." On June 24, Neff commented, "Honestly given how tired black people always claim to be, maybe the real crisis is their lack of sleep." On June 26, Neff wrote that the only people who care about changing the name of the NFL's Washington Redskins are "white libs and their university-'educated' pets."
As you might suspect, he immediately resigned as soon as CNN contacted Fox News with proof.

I wonder if Carlson will mention it?
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Smoove_B
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Smoove_B »

hepcat wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:18 pm
I wonder if Carlson will mention it?
Yeah. He'll be bragging about how his former top writer was just hired by the Trump Administration.

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