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Racism in America (with data)

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Defiant »

stessier wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:05 pm I don't know - it sure seems like it would fall under Race for me. If it doesn't because they are classified as white, then I don't know how you define the born outside of Israel, non-religious Jew as Jewish. Like, how does a prosecutor say you are being antisemitic to that hypothetical without saying it's because of their race?
IIUC, it could also fall under national origin. You don't need to be born in another country, just have a specific heritage. For example, someone who is Irish American because he has Irish ancestors but was born in the US, and was attacked because he was attacked for being Irish, could be similar.

Nor does it have to be another *country*. Someone who is Kurdish or Roma could also count as a national origin, IIUC.

But it is a fuzzy, complex issue.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:25 pm

You've got a couple of things going on here. One is whether or not this was a stunt by the Rs to make it look like the Ds don't care about antisemitism. Obviously, it was. Despite the Ds apparently putting it in the final bill without R support via other means, it appears to have worked (at least to some extent).
Yeah, it's clearly an attempt by the Rs to show division on an area where there is some potential division on the left, and the optics for the Ds are bad.

It won't result in the Jewish demographic suddenly switching and supporting Trump, as R's have been trying to do for decades, but it (and other things) could chip away at that support and lower the margin Ds win the demographic by.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Skinypupy »

This can't be good.
Louisville, Kentucky, police said Monday that they had canceled vacations and were setting up barricades in preparation for the state attorney general’s announcement about whether he will charge officers in Breonna Taylor’s shooting death.

A statement from the department said all requests for vacation and days off were being canceled “until further notice” as the city awaits Attorney General Daniel Cameron’s announcement. “It is important to note that (Cameron) has said there is no timetable for the announcement,” the statement added.
I'm hoping this is simply out of abundance of caution and not that they know something we don't. Because if these murderers get off scot free, shit's gonna burn to the ground.

Which is exactly what Trump and Barr are hoping for, I'm sure.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Skinypupy wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:27 amWhich is exactly what Trump and Barr are hoping for, I'm sure.
Win/Win for the current administration.

If things go south, they get to scream "LAW AND ORDER" and send in the troops, feeding the fires of hate in their base. If things don't, they get to preen and strut about how fair and balanced things are. As much as Trump loves to preen, he enjoys feeling like he's stomping people more.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Skinypupy wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:27 am This can't be good.
Louisville, Kentucky, police said Monday that they had canceled vacations and were setting up barricades in preparation for the state attorney general’s announcement about whether he will charge officers in Breonna Taylor’s shooting death.

A statement from the department said all requests for vacation and days off were being canceled “until further notice” as the city awaits Attorney General Daniel Cameron’s announcement. “It is important to note that (Cameron) has said there is no timetable for the announcement,” the statement added.
I'm hoping this is simply out of abundance of caution and not that they know something we don't. Because if these murderers get off scot free, shit's gonna burn to the ground.

Which is exactly what Trump and Barr are hoping for, I'm sure.
They always have to assume the worst outcome. It would be negligent not to prepare for an unpopular verdict. I doubt they have any insider info on the trial/jury.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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I can't conceive there is any legal basis for de-funding "anarchist" cities. No legal standing.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Jaymann wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:57 am I can't conceive there is any legal basis for de-funding "anarchist" cities. No legal standing.
Right now it's just threats and bluster. But if they did try, it would be in court for months and that's all that is needed.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:34 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:57 am I can't conceive there is any legal basis for de-funding "anarchist" cities. No legal standing.
Right now it's just threats and bluster. But if they did try, it would be in court for months and that's all that is needed.
Also it's forcing Democratic cities to confront the possibility of losing funding while litigating it in court. Plus if losing money causes things to break down in those cities, then the designation becomes self-justifying.

This is also how Trump would bring state and local government to heel in a second term, incidentally.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Do we have any details on the funding side? Is there a chance it'd be "surgical"? I could see them giving the city funding for the police/first responders only to keep the 'law and order' spin going.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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malchior wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:55 pm Do we have any details on the funding side? Is there a chance it'd be "surgical"? I could see them giving the city funding for the police/first responders only to keep the 'law and order' spin going.
Excellent point. Trump is de-funding the police!!!
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Don't drink and e-mail, kids.

CNN
One of the Louisville Metro Police officers who fired into Breonna Taylor's home the night she was killed sent a mass email to the department early Tuesday defending his actions and slamming the city's leadership, his attorney confirmed to CNN.

In the email, Sgt. Jonathan Mattingly told his colleagues they "do not deserve to be in this position" where "thugs" are allowed to "get into your face and yell, curse and degrade you" and if officers "make a mistake during the most stressful times in your career, the department and FBI ... go after you for civil rights violations."
...
"Regardless of the outcome today or Wednesday, I know we did the legal, moral and ethical thing that night. It's sad how the good guys are demonized, and criminals are canonized," Mattingly wrote.

Further, Mattingly criticized city and police leaders, who he mocked as "pencil pushers."

"I'm proof they do not care about you or your family, and you are replaceable," he wrote.

The email, sent just after 2 a.m., was first made public by Vice News correspondent Roberto Aram Ferdman.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

We've gotten to the open declarations period of systemic racism. Cool.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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I support diversity and understand how it can genuinely benefit an organization, not just people with varying skin tones and lineage, but is it really open racism to say they don't have many options?

If you get 200 equally qualified applicants for 20 jobs, and only 10 of the applicants are non-Caucasian, are you supposed to disproportionately hire all 10 people just so you can fit the diversity profile - and doesn't that then make this a kind of inverse racism? Statistically, shouldn't the split be 19 to 1 - and a fair representation of the diversity of applicants? If they went for a 5x fair statistic ratio and hired 5 people, is that still racism because they excluded the other 5?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm curious where it stops being a factual issue and starts being racism.

*Edit: What's better evidence is people posting online now about being qualified but not called for interviews ... until they didn't include on their application what skin color they had.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Paingod wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:56 am I support diversity and understand how it can genuinely benefit an organization, not just people with varying skin tones and lineage, but is it really open racism to say they don't have many options?

If you get 200 equally qualified applicants for 20 jobs, and only 10 of the applicants are non-Caucasian, are you supposed to disproportionately hire all 10 people just so you can fit the diversity profile - and doesn't that then make this a kind of inverse racism? Statistically, shouldn't the split be 19 to 1 - and a fair representation of the diversity of applicants? If they went for a 5x fair statistic ratio and hired 5 people, is that still racism because they excluded the other 5?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm curious where it stops being a factual issue and starts being racism.

*Edit: What's better evidence is people posting online now about being qualified but not called for interviews ... until they didn't include on their application what skin color they had.
equally qualified applicants
I have evolved on this position and there's no guarantee I won't evolve again/more?. When I was younger my answer was that all things being equal it was unfair to exclude Caucasians based on diversity profiling and that in utopian colorblind society it should be an insult to receive favor based on skin pigmentation. (those thoughts were primarily about education then as I was still of school age/fresh out of school) Somewhere in my late 20s that changed and I two things seem to be the case when I look at the world around me: 1) Most environments, when all other things are equal, can benefit from diversity profiling. 2) Society, in general, benefits when you lift people up to a better circumstance. All other things being equal, Caucasians do have a position that we have later come call as privileged in the US and Latinos, Blacks, and Native Americans will benefit more from the same job/school offering than will a Caucasian, which benefits society more.

I still don't like quotas but considering diversity is something I consider an asset.
Last edited by LordMortis on Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Paingod wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:56 am I support diversity and understand how it can genuinely benefit an organization, not just people with varying skin tones and lineage, but is it really open racism to say they don't have many options?

If you get 200 equally qualified applicants for 20 jobs, and only 10 of the applicants are non-Caucasian, are you supposed to disproportionately hire all 10 people just so you can fit the diversity profile - and doesn't that then make this a kind of inverse racism? Statistically, shouldn't the split be 19 to 1 - and a fair representation of the diversity of applicants? If they went for a 5x fair statistic ratio and hired 5 people, is that still racism because they excluded the other 5?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm curious where it stops being a factual issue and starts being racism.

*Edit: What's better evidence is people posting online now about being qualified but not called for interviews ... until they didn't include on their application what skin color they had.
I would assume that there is not, in fact, a lack of diverse talent.

I think it far more likely that Mr CEO here can't be bothered to adjust any of Wells Fargo's standard recruitment and hiring practices to actually go out and find diverse talent.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:06 amI still don't like quotas but considering diversity is something I consider an asset.
That's something I came to learn through college classes. Maine is a woefully insulated state with a staggering lack of diversity, so I wasn't really seeing it first-hand anywhere. I took an entire class dedicated to workplace diversity, though, in my degree pursuit.

I guess what I didn't learn in that class was what a good 'diversity goal' is for a company, or how they establish that.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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I know for certain positions in IT at my company, there's a lack of talent, period. Finding minority talent in that already miniscule pool would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

I'm not defending Wells Fargo here, but just a counterpoint that there are certain fields where minorities are, well, a minority. Not through their own fault, but due to lacking the opportunity to be able to get the training and positions which would give them the qualifications to fill that role.

In my computer science classes in college, we MIGHT have had one female per class of 30-40 students. We MIGHT have had one African-American in that same class. With numbers like that, it's not racism in finding the applicants, it's math.

The racism lies in the societal disadvantages minorities have in getting to that computer science class, graduating, and then actually landing an entry level job that will give them the experience to advance.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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When I see comments like Wells Fargo, I wonder if they only target certain schools or if they include HBCU's in their pools, for example. Because it makes sense that if you look in the same old pool, you'll get the same old candidates. If you change the pool, though, you can find new fish (as it were).
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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stessier wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:29 am When I see comments like Wells Fargo, I wonder if they only target certain schools or if they include HBCU's in their pools, for example. Because it makes sense that if you look in the same old pool, you'll get the same old candidates. If you change the pool, though, you can find new fish (as it were).
That's basically what I was getting at.

I don't disagree with YK that the talent pool can sometimes be very limited in certain professions. But a better way to approach that challenge would be to say something like "Wells Fargo is actively working on creative and innovative ways to recruit and develop talent to ensure we attract the most diverse talent pool possible".

Instead, we got "We can't find any black people. Sorry! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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So my company went with this line of thinking. There is systemic racism in America, its a big problem. We are in America, so we must be part of the problem. And instead of previous half ass attempts like listening groups made up of volunteers, we opened a new HR team. Inclusions and Diversity, and we are figuring out what to do about it.

Because the answer is not simple, its a complex and intertwined system of problems. And this system of problems has been, and continues to be, invisible to most White Males. We were able to get a company wide zoom meeting with Ijeoma Oluo author of So You Want to Talk About Race and that was fantastic.

We cannot solve all of societies ills within our own company, but we can do something about it internally. Because is not about setting a percentage on hiring BIPOC. That is a bandaid on an arterial wound. Its about examining our hiring practices and our workplace culture and our resume sorting algorithms and our unconscious bias and our management mentoring process and all the other parts of the system. And then making the changes to make sure we have a workplace attractive and accessible to BIPOC so we have a diverse pool of applicants so we can hire diverse people.


Because I see it. I am in tech, and most of my co-workers are slightly overweight middle age white males. And when HR gives us candidates, thats generally all that shows up. Its a self reinforcing system, and we need to break it.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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If the talent pool is indeed small, it's not an excuse. You should recognize a disproportionately small talent pool as a problem and work to increase it. Not just through looking elsewhere but through improving diversity where you are looking. Graduates from a school you recruit from are all white? Put pressure on that school to send more diverse talent. Your recruiting consultant isn't delivering? Tell them to fix it. It has to flow down from the top, all the way to high schools and elementary. Hirable 20-somethings aren't magically created out of thin air based on desired quotas.
Large corporations, heck anyone hiring in this economy, can direct meaningful change all they way down to where matters.

Change is hard but meaningful is even harder. WFC is a shitty bank and I don't see them trying for meaningful change. It's not necessarily racism, it's just shitty leadership at a shitty company.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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What do you do when the state or country you live in is 95% white?
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:54 am If the talent pool is indeed small, it's not an excuse. You should recognize a disproportionately small talent pool as a problem and work to increase it. Not just through looking elsewhere but through improving diversity where you are looking. Graduates from a school you recruit from are all white? Put pressure on that school to send more diverse talent. Your recruiting consultant isn't delivering? Tell them to fix it. It has to flow down from the top, all the way to high schools and elementary. Hirable 20-somethings aren't magically created out of thin air based on desired quotas.
Large corporations, heck anyone hiring in this economy, can direct meaningful change all they way down to where matters.

Change is hard but meaningful is even harder. WFC is a shitty bank and I don't see them trying for meaningful change. It's not necessarily racism, it's just shitty leadership at a shitty company.
It is definitely shit leadership but I think it is reinforces the basis for systemic racism. Maybe the memo was intended to come from the right place but it sends a message to people that when you don't find BIPOC talent...well that is to be expected. That's the problem. He said it because it is his viewpoint on the world. The challenge is to dig deep and fix what they can. All the initiatives you mention should be part of that story. Another thing to consider is that the nature of recruiting has gotten fixated on applicant background (what schools / what jobs) which disfavors BIPOC people generally.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Paingod wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 am What do you do when the state or country you live in is 95% white?
What country is that? And are they having severe racial disparity issues? [Edit] Maine is the highest % white state as of 2017 at 93.4% with only three other states above 90% (WV, VT, NH). [/Edit]

I can see a community bank in an all-white town having an all white staff. Just like a community bank an in all-black neighborhood (are there all-black towns?) may have an all black staff. But I don't see that relevant for a corporate mega bank.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:14 am
Paingod wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 am What do you do when the state or country you live in is 95% white?
What country is that? And are they having severe racial disparity issues?
That's where I live. Maine. Second whitest state in the nation (Edit: Must be old data), behind only Vermont. For me, diversity is a theory I get to talk about but have never really experienced. I never feel like any company or organization is going out of their way to not hire with diversity in mind. More like it's just a nonexistent option.

When I was doing hiring over a decade ago, I never really considered race a factor - though someone's inability to articulate in English did exclude them from communications-heavy roles.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Paingod wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:22 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:14 am
Paingod wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 am What do you do when the state or country you live in is 95% white?
What country is that? And are they having severe racial disparity issues?
That's where I live. Maine. Second whitest state in the nation (Edit: Must be old data), behind only Vermont. For me, diversity is a theory I get to talk about but have never really experienced. I never feel like any company or organization is going out of their way to not hire with diversity in mind. More like it's just a nonexistent option.

When I was doing hiring over a decade ago, I never really considered race a factor - though someone's inability to articulate in English did exclude them from communications-heavy roles.
So then if it's for a local job hired from the local community one would expect ~90-something% white candidates and hires. Unless there is a vast disparity in equality, not just demographics. In which case there needs to be some soul-searching.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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YellowKing wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:19 am I know for certain positions in IT at my company, there's a lack of talent, period. Finding minority talent in that already miniscule pool would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

I'm not defending Wells Fargo here, but just a counterpoint that there are certain fields where minorities are, well, a minority. Not through their own fault, but due to lacking the opportunity to be able to get the training and positions which would give them the qualifications to fill that role.

In my computer science classes in college, we MIGHT have had one female per class of 30-40 students. We MIGHT have had one African-American in that same class. With numbers like that, it's not racism in finding the applicants, it's math.

The racism lies in the societal disadvantages minorities have in getting to that computer science class, graduating, and then actually landing an entry level job that will give them the experience to advance.
Obviously Microsoft has an advantage in sheer size, but I'm pleased to the degree that we aggressively recruit female and minority technical people. My manager, our VP and our SVP are all women, and our SVP is African American as well. On my team of 18, we have seven females, four African Americans, two Hispanics and five Asians. The diversity of thought really does make us a better functioning team.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

What we expected in the Taylor case. They are scapegoating the officer who fired blind into the home and neighboring apartment and was subsequently fired off the force. I just saw one black man saying that he knew it but it still hurts and he said we're not rolling over for this anymore. It is hard to see that pain and essentially know that *little to nothing* will change to stop the police from murdering black people.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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I'm confused. The article says this:
A wanton endangerment charge is a class D felony and carries a penalty of one to five years in prison. The charges read by Judge Annie O'Connell on Wednesday said that Hankison "wantonly shot a gun" into three apartments.

The occupants of those apartments were identified by initials.

None of them were BT — Breonna Taylor. That means it appears the grand jury did not find that Hankison wantonly fired into Taylor's apartment the night she died.
So even the officer who was charged was not charged for his role in Taylor's death?

Also, what other apartments was the officer firing into? Was that on the same night?
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:46 pm I'm confused. The article says this:
A wanton endangerment charge is a class D felony and carries a penalty of one to five years in prison. The charges read by Judge Annie O'Connell on Wednesday said that Hankison "wantonly shot a gun" into three apartments.

The occupants of those apartments were identified by initials.

None of them were BT — Breonna Taylor. That means it appears the grand jury did not find that Hankison wantonly fired into Taylor's apartment the night she died.
So even the officer who was charged was not charged for his role in Taylor's death?

Also, what other apartments was the officer firing into? Was that on the same night?
Correct. The charged officer wasn't in the line of fire. He was well to the side and fired blind (without a clear target) in the direction of where he perceived the gunfire was coming from. Potentially hearing the fire from the other two officers. Even then he was only charged for shooting into other apartments. They fired him for this at the beginning of July.

I've read elsewhere that they bungled the forensics and don't even know who killed Breonna. It likely was the two not charged because she was proximate to her boyfriend and it seems logical return fire would be directed in her direction. If true about the forensics, this would not be surprising as the whole department reads like they are barely a professional police force. The incident report didn't even mention a fatality for instance which seems like a pertinent fact. The charges against the other officer are definitely justified but it appears to be a cynical charging decision.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Bad forensics aside, it would be difficult to identify who killed her and how to assign blame to individuals. But that very fact is an indictment of the entire force. They'll undoubtedly pay a hefty settlement but they also need to be torn down and rebuilt. Which probably won't happen.

The rot is at the top.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:32 pm Bad forensics aside, it would be difficult to identify who killed her and how to assign blame to individuals. But that very fact is an indictment of the entire force. They'll undoubtedly pay a hefty settlement but they also need to be torn down and rebuilt. Which probably won't happen.

The rot is at the top.
They paid out $12M already. The AG is political as all hell - he gave a statement where he did everything short of wink at the camera after saying they did a thorough investigation (unstated part is that it was an investigation of Breonna to justify her murder). He essentially relied on one witness who backs the police account about them announcing their entry even though multiple witnesses have come forward to speak publicly that they did not. Whatever. Police are going to murder black people. We can't stop it by the normal channels. If this boils over it certainly won't be unjustified.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:54 am If the talent pool is indeed small, it's not an excuse. You should recognize a disproportionately small talent pool as a problem and work to increase it. Not just through looking elsewhere but through improving diversity where you are looking. Graduates from a school you recruit from are all white? Put pressure on that school to send more diverse talent. Your recruiting consultant isn't delivering? Tell them to fix it. It has to flow down from the top, all the way to high schools and elementary. Hirable 20-somethings aren't magically created out of thin air based on desired quotas.
Large corporations, heck anyone hiring in this economy, can direct meaningful change all they way down to where matters.
Yes this. this is part of what Ijeoma Oluo talks about, and what others have talked about.
The pool has mostly white fish. So stop focusing on the pool. Look into the streams that feed into the pool. There are barriers there, barriers the white fish cannot see, barriers that do not impede white fish, but are very difficult for other kinds of fish to pass. And that is why its such a difficult problem.
Some say the answer is to look into other pools. But the actual answer is to find a way to remove those barriers, and that will take a change for the whole society.

Watching the USA these days, its a weird place. I see corporations taking moral stands and fighting for equality and justice in a way that our government just seems incapable of doing. It was very clear with pandemic, massive corporations reaching deep into pocketbooks and trying to do the right thing while the US government did the , well you know what they did. And now it looks to me like a similar thing is happening with BLM. Its been a long time coming, but many corporations are taking a hard look at themselves, and realizing they they ARE part of the problem, and trying to change and find solutions.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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I think what you're witnessing isn't corporate conscience but rather survival instincts. Companies know where the winds are blowing and adjust accordingly. If they don't, they suffer and/or die.

Very few companies seem to follow a genuine moral compass and use compassion. Most use a sense of what's going to burn their hands the most and work to avoid it.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Jaymon wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:03 pm Some say the answer is to look into other pools. But the actual answer is to find a way to remove those barriers, and that will take a change for the whole society.
I think you have to do both - look in other pools now while you work to remove the barriers. I think doing the first will speed the second as a more diverse work force would do better at identifying the barriers that need removing and be more passionate about their removal.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Armed militias are patrolling Louisville tonight.

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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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gbasden wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:36 pm
Obviously Microsoft has an advantage in sheer size, but I'm pleased to the degree that we aggressively recruit female and minority technical people. My manager, our VP and our SVP are all women, and our SVP is African American as well. On my team of 18, we have seven females, four African Americans, two Hispanics and five Asians. The diversity of thought really does make us a better functioning team.
at my small tech firm (and it is an American organization) i'm one of two people of European descent on my team (the other is an Albanian who was hired just a few months ago) and one of two born in this country - the rest are four South Koreans, one Kazakh, one Malaysian, one Taiwanese, one Chinese, one South Indian and one Black American. of the team, three are women.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Meanwhile, in Rittenhouse news, the defense has unleashed their opening salvo.

The key points:
On Tuesday, Rittenhouse's attorney Lin Wood released footage outlining the defense's version of events on the night of the shootings, in particular highlighting the events leading up to the first shooting, which was not captured on widely-circulated video of the subsequent two shootings.

In a slickly produced 11-minute video released by Wood's FightBack Foundation, the defense team argues that other shots were fired before and after the first fatal shooting, which killed 36-year-old Joseph Rosenbaum.
We already knew that Kyle didn't shoot first from the NYT video, but they do seem to have found some new stuff of the first shooting.
Videos also show a dispute between Rosenbaum and men guarding a nearby gas station prior to the shooting.

Rittenhouse's lawyers say that Rosenbaum was enraged that the guards had put out a fire in a rolling dumpster that activists had tried to push toward the gas station, and that he was seen shouting 'Shoot me n***a' at a man with a rifle at the gas station, who was dressed similarly to Rittenhouse.

Some time later, Rittenhouse was spotted sprinting with a fire extinguisher to put out another fire, which his lawyers claim that Rosenbaum was involved in igniting.
I assume his defense lawyers have found this "other guard" and that they will be putting him on the stand.
As Rittenhouse fled, a single gunshot rang out nearby, with the muzzle flash captured on video. It's unclear who fired the gun. Rittenhouse then turns around to face Rosenbaum, and according to McGinniss, opened fire as Rosenbaum lunged at his rifle.

According to Rittenhouse's attorneys, he fired four times. The video captures three additional shots of unknown origin immediately after Rittenhouse fired.

Rosembaum was struck four times, and Rittenhouse's attorneys say that it has yet to be proven that he fired all of the shots that struck Rosenbaum.

Rittenhouse then attempted to call 911, but quickly fled from the shooting scene on foot as an angry crowd began to form.
I wonder if his phone records will back that up. If they do...it certainly helps his case.

After that's it's pretty much all old news, with one exception.
A social media post unearthed by Rittnehouse's legal team purports to show a social media post by a friend of Grosskreutz who spoke to him in the hospital after the shooting.

'His only regret was not killing the kid and hesitating to pull the gun before emptying the entire mag into him,' the friend claimed Grosskreutz had said.
Grosskreutz was the "medic" that approached Rittenhouse with a drawn handgun. But even if this "friend" can be found and maintains his story, I'm not sure how relevant it is. Is that even admissible? I honestly don't know.

At any rate, I suspect the prosecutor has their work cut out for them.
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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malchior wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:36 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:32 pm Bad forensics aside, it would be difficult to identify who killed her and how to assign blame to individuals. But that very fact is an indictment of the entire force. They'll undoubtedly pay a hefty settlement but they also need to be torn down and rebuilt. Which probably won't happen.

The rot is at the top.
They paid out $12M already. The AG is political as all hell - he gave a statement where he did everything short of wink at the camera after saying they did a thorough investigation (unstated part is that it was an investigation of Breonna to justify her murder). He essentially relied on one witness who backs the police account about them announcing their entry even though multiple witnesses have come forward to speak publicly that they did not. Whatever. Police are going to murder black people. We can't stop it by the normal channels. If this boils over it certainly won't be unjustified.
This is about what I expected, and, honestly, I don't think it's unjustified from what I've read about Breonna Taylor's killing.

Also, "police are going to murder black people" . . . I'm not saying that sentiment isn't justified to some extent generally, but do you really think it is in this instance? There were obviously systemic issues in play here that need fundamental correction, but what have you seen that makes you believe that the police involved here were out to "murder black people?" These cops were executing a warrant that probably shouldn't have been issued. They were doing a shitty job executing that warrant and ended up getting shot at in the process. Their response to being shot at was severely deficient. So, there's plenty of blame to go around and ample justification for lost jobs and possibly criminal prosecution.

But, unless you've seen something I haven't, I'm not sure where you're coming from asserting that these cops were "going to murder black people."

Edit to add: Also, it now appears it has, indeed, boiled over. Sad and predictable. Not justified. Two officers shot during protests over grand jury decision not to charge Louisville cops with killing Breonna Taylor
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Re: Racism in America (with data)

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Two officers shot during Louisville protests.
Two police officers were shot in Louisville, Kentucky during protests reacting to the Breonna Taylor case announcement, MetroSafe confirmed to NewsNation.

Both were taken to the hospital. One officer is “alert and stable” and the other is in surgery, according to the interim police chief Robert Schroeder. Both are expected to recover.
I know everyone is feeling very pitchforky....but I for one hope that shooting at cops during protests does not become standard procedure. That will get VERY messy VERY quickly.
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