The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by El Guapo »

I hope his bounty pays off, so to speak, but if this has any effect at all it is likely to be counter-productive, as Trump would love to have enemies like Larry Flynt.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Max Peck »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:42 pm I hope his bounty pays off, so to speak, but if this has any effect at all it is likely to be counter-productive, as Trump would love to have enemies like Larry Flynt.
Given Trump's proclivities, I'd have to believe that he would love to have friends like Larry Flynt.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:24 pm You're just upset that they wanted you to prove the financial ability to pay the $50 reward for a decent Monte Cristo sandwich.
Bennigans. Damn it. Now I want to go to Bennigans.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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hepcat wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:35 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:24 pm You're just upset that they wanted you to prove the financial ability to pay the $50 reward for a decent Monte Cristo sandwich.
Bennigans. Damn it. Now I want to go to Bennigans.
I can stop by their corporate office on the way home for you.

Or:
Bennigan's - 5773
495 Airport Rd
Elgin, IL 60123
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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I'm Monte Cristo crazy, but am I 59 minutes of Chicago traffic Monte Cristo crazy?

I honestly thought they closed all the Bennigans in this part of Illinois. I wonder why they kept that one. :?
Last edited by hepcat on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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There's one out in Rock Island, as well as three in the wilds of Lower Michigan (Mt. Pleasant, Midland, Saginaw).
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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hepcat wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:46 pm I'm Monte Cristo crazy, but am I 59 minutes of Chicago traffic Monte Cristo crazy?

I honestly thought they closed all the Bennigans in this part of Illinois. I wonder why they kept that one. :?
Yes, you are. And they kept that Bennigans open because that's where they sell the most Monte Cristo.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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South Carolina Rep. Trey Gowdy revealed in an interview on Fox News on Tuesday that Power was “emphatic” on the point that someone else in the Obama administration made the unmasking requests that have been attributed to her.

Fox News recently reported that Power made approximately 260 unmasking requests — a rate of one per business day — in her final year in office, including up through the end of Obama’s term.

Unmasking has become an issue because someone inside the Obama administration unmasked the identities of Trump associates identified in classified intelligence reports collected by the intelligence community during surveillance of foreign targets. Some of those details were illegally leaked to the media.

Power has been scrutinized of late because of the high number of unmasking requests linked to her.

But Gowdy, a member of the Intelligence committee, said that Power “was pretty emphatic” last week in disputing that she made 260 unmasking requests.

“She would say those requests to unmask may have been attributed to her, but they greatly exceed by an exponential factor the requests she actually made,” Gowdy told Fox’s Bret Baier.

“Her perspective, her testimony is, ‘they may be under my name, but I did not make those requests.'”
http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/17/obama ... ame-video/

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I remember caring but all that seems so quaint now. Seriously, we're talking complete sell-out of out country these days.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by GreenGoo »

I'm impressed. A single publication and Rip is completely sold. I look forward to the results if this investigation about historical corruption involving Russia. I also look forward to results for the investigation into current corruption involving Russia.

So, Comey, the same guy that shouted to Congress that new evidence had been found regarding Hillary, mere days before the election, covered for her for years prior. Is your argument that he was disgruntled?

Motives aside, I'm sure a non-partisan investigation will uncover the truth.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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And now we have the POTUS suggesting that the FBI might have forged documents to incriminate him...

link
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Kind of a lot of interesting angles to this tweet:

(1) Blithely accusing the FBI that he nominally leads of conspiring with Russia and the opposition party against him, which is great for the rule of law.

(2) The accusation that the FBI may have 'paid for' the Steele Dossier is kind of an interesting one. It's not completely insane, insofar as leading up to the election IIRC there were reports that the FBI was considering bringing Steele in and possibly hiring him as a consultant / temporary investigator of sort. But part of the reason for that is that Steele himself is a pretty respected and credible guy, and so that the Steele Dossier (at least as a collection of investigatory leads) is way more credible than most people think.

(3) Why is Trump raising this now? Also tweeted about Comey and Clinton relatively out of the blue (for us, anyway) the other day. Of course, Reince Priebus became the first inner Trump administration person to be interviewed by the Mueller team the other day.

Also a reminder that we have a looming constitutional / rule of law crisis coming, possibly before the end of the year, when the Mueller team sooner or later goes public in some form with what they have, and Trump responds accordingly (or Trump tries to remove Mueller somehow before then).
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by tjg_marantz »

(3) because fox and friends I'm guessing
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Holman »

El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:49 am (3) Why is Trump raising this now? Also tweeted about Comey and Clinton relatively out of the blue (for us, anyway) the other day. Of course, Reince Priebus became the first inner Trump administration person to be interviewed by the Mueller team the other day.
Comey tweets are always attempts to undermine the Mueller investigation (as Trump apparently hasn't the guts to attack Mueller directly yet). He's pushing the line that Mueller is continuing the fake-news frame-up Comey started.

Priebus was interviewed a few days ago, but I think the most recent Comey tweet came right after news broke that Sean Spicer had been interviewed (for a full day) as well.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:49 am (2) The accusation that the FBI may have 'paid for' the Steele Dossier is kind of an interesting one. It's not completely insane, insofar as leading up to the election IIRC there were reports that the FBI was considering bringing Steele in and possibly hiring him as a consultant / temporary investigator of sort. But part of the reason for that is that Steele himself is a pretty respected and credible guy, and so that the Steele Dossier (at least as a collection of investigatory leads) is way more credible than most people think.
My favorite part is that the dossier was literally raw humint data. They are to be treated as rumors. So they can't be discredited. They can be proved false but that is something totally different. It only further indicates Trump has no fucking idea what he is talking about.
(3) Why is Trump raising this now? Also tweeted about Comey and Clinton relatively out of the blue (for us, anyway) the other day. Of course, Reince Priebus became the first inner Trump administration person to be interviewed by the Mueller team the other day.
I love the idea that he is squirming knowing the noose is tightening but I wonder if he even has that level of self-awareness.
Also a reminder that we have a looming constitutional / rule of law crisis coming, possibly before the end of the year, when the Mueller team sooner or later goes public in some form with what they have, and Trump responds accordingly (or Trump tries to remove Mueller somehow before then).
Yep - we are going to have a very real problem come end of year/beginning of next year. Especially if he starts pardoning tons of folks.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Holman wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:43 am And now we have the POTUS suggesting that the FBI might have forged documents to incriminate him...

link
You're burying the lede -- he's suggesting Russia might have done it!!! :o
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Putin told him it was ok just this once to throw him in the mix to get the dogs off the scent. ;)
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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malchior wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:45 am
El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:49 am (2) The accusation that the FBI may have 'paid for' the Steele Dossier is kind of an interesting one. It's not completely insane, insofar as leading up to the election IIRC there were reports that the FBI was considering bringing Steele in and possibly hiring him as a consultant / temporary investigator of sort. But part of the reason for that is that Steele himself is a pretty respected and credible guy, and so that the Steele Dossier (at least as a collection of investigatory leads) is way more credible than most people think.
My favorite part is that the dossier was literally raw humint data. They are to be treated as rumors. So they can't be discredited. They can be proved false but that is something totally different. It only further indicates Trump has no fucking idea what he is talking about.
(3) Why is Trump raising this now? Also tweeted about Comey and Clinton relatively out of the blue (for us, anyway) the other day. Of course, Reince Priebus became the first inner Trump administration person to be interviewed by the Mueller team the other day.
I love the idea that he is squirming knowing the noose is tightening but I wonder if he even has that level of self-awareness.
Also a reminder that we have a looming constitutional / rule of law crisis coming, possibly before the end of the year, when the Mueller team sooner or later goes public in some form with what they have, and Trump responds accordingly (or Trump tries to remove Mueller somehow before then).
Yep - we are going to have a very real problem come end of year/beginning of next year. Especially if he starts pardoning tons of folks.
On the pardon thing, Mueller is working with the NY AG, and state-level crimes are unpardonable (so to speak) by the President. So as long as they can tie a given offense to a NY criminal violation and NY jurisdiction (fortunately Trump is a NY guy), Trump's ability to mass pardon is limited, which in turn limits his ability to keep senior people from flipping on him.

A real epic-level shitstorm comes if Mueller decides to charge Trump himself, and Trump pardons himself. Then (in addition to proving the offenses) you also have the epic issues of whether the president can be indicted while in office, and whether the President can pardon himself, which are both huge questions with little to no binding law or precedent.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Oh, and we've probably got motion to dismiss decisions coming from the several emoluments clause lawsuits at some point, probably not too far off.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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The emoluments lawsuits are fun to watch but I expect the judiciary to wimp out on them.

Edit: Also I don't know if I could blame them for wimping out.

Edit2: Just saw that the Justice Department is trying to bring the McDonnell appeal rationale into the case according to this story.
A lawyer for the Department of Justice disagreed, saying a violation only happens if an actual act is done in exchange for a payment.
Thanks SCOTUS for watering down corruption. Smoking gun evidence is an unreasonably high bar for corruption.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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There's a lot at stake just in the motions to dismiss in the emoluments clause lawsuits (which are going to raise a lot of justiciablity / standing issues), even if the lawsuits never got to the merits. If just one of the suits survives a motion to dismiss, then those plaintiffs will get discovery, and that discovery will necessarily (and appropriately) dig into money flowing to Trump and the Trump organizations. Note that Trump's tax returns would probably be requested, and it would be hard to argue against their relevance (his most recent tax return at the very least).

That, in turn, would open up a whole can of worms for Trump.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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malchior wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:03 pm The emoluments lawsuits are fun to watch but I expect the judiciary to wimp out on them.

Edit: Also I don't know if I could blame them for wimping out.

Edit2: Just saw that the Justice Department is trying to bring the McDonnell appeal rationale into the case according to this story.
A lawyer for the Department of Justice disagreed, saying a violation only happens if an actual act is done in exchange for a payment.
Thanks SCOTUS for watering down corruption. Smoking gun evidence is an unreasonably high bar for corruption.
Can we get them on doing the RICO?
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:28 pm
malchior wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:03 pm The emoluments lawsuits are fun to watch but I expect the judiciary to wimp out on them.

Edit: Also I don't know if I could blame them for wimping out.

Edit2: Just saw that the Justice Department is trying to bring the McDonnell appeal rationale into the case according to this story.
A lawyer for the Department of Justice disagreed, saying a violation only happens if an actual act is done in exchange for a payment.
Thanks SCOTUS for watering down corruption. Smoking gun evidence is an unreasonably high bar for corruption.
Can we get them on doing the RICO?
Hold on, I just checked with Claude Taylor and Louise Mensch - apparently the SCOTUS Secret Ninja Squad is as we speak out on missions to execute everyone in the Trump Administration for RICO violations.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Holman »

Rip wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:46 pm

Yes, Hannity et al are hyping this like it means... something?

The Steele dossier was begun as oppo research by one of Trump's GOP primary challengers: it was an attempt to check out various rumors and suspected Russian ties that were already being talked about. When that challenger dropped out, the Democrats picked it up. This is not news, as it has been reported on all along, the earliest story being in October 2016.

Trump seems to think that the fact that the the Dems partly funded this oppo research means that the Russia investigation is Dem propaganda. That would hold water if the dossier were anything but an independent look into very serious allegations that are being investigated elsewhere, obviously independently of the dossier itself.

It isn't the dossier that caused Trump associates to be intercepted in communications with Russian agents, or Russia to hack the DNC, or Trump associates to meet repeatedly and secretly with Russians, or the Trump campaign and Russian propaganda to be weirdly in sync all along, or Manafort and Flynn to be in the Kremlin's pocket, or Trump and his cronies to be neck-deep in oligarch money laundering, or Trump to promise to lift sanctions on Russia, or any of a dozen other completely guilty and treasonous looking arrangements. And of course the dossier never caused Trump to do everything he could to obstruct the investigation into Russian election interference.

Sometimes oppo research just turns out to be accurate. That definitely seems to be the case here, as numerous allegations that happen to be in the dossier have been corroborated elsewhere, and none have yet been disproven.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Holman wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:23 pm
Rip wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:46 pm

Yes, Hannity et al are hyping this like it means... something?

The Steele dossier was begun as oppo research by one of Trump's GOP primary challengers: it was an attempt to check out various rumors and suspected Russian ties that were already being talked about. When that challenger dropped out, the Democrats picked it up. This is not news, as it has been reported on all along, the earliest story being in October 2016.

Trump seems to think that the fact that the the Dems partly funded this oppo research means that the Russia investigation is Dem propaganda. That would hold water if the dossier were anything but an independent look into very serious allegations that are being investigated elsewhere, obviously independently of the dossier itself.

It isn't the dossier that caused Trump associates to be intercepted in communications with Russian agents, or Russia to hack the DNC, or Trump associates to meet repeatedly and secretly with Russians, or the Trump campaign and Russian propaganda to be weirdly in sync all along, or Manafort and Flynn to be in the Kremlin's pocket, or Trump and his cronies to be neck-deep in oligarch money laundering, or Trump to promise to lift sanctions on Russia, or any of a dozen other completely guilty and treasonous looking arrangements. And of course the dossier never caused Trump to do everything he could to obstruct the investigation into Russian election interference.

Sometimes oppo research just turns out to be accurate. That definitely seems to be the case here, as numerous allegations that happen to be in the dossier have been corroborated elsewhere, and none have yet been disproven.
Yeah, this isn't news to anyone who was paying attention. As I recall, it was originally one of Jeb's PAC's which started the investigation. But... CLINTON! (for Rip, of course).
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

It has been a year and we are still talking about Clinton. The media are the second biggest dupes next to the Trumpistas.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Wapo deconstructs:
we all know the game here, or at least we should. The Republicans’ point is not to make a compelling, persuasive argument. It’s to create as much confusion as possible. It doesn’t matter whether any of it makes sense.

From this point forward, whenever anything having to do with Trump’s connections to Russia and Robert Mueller’s investigation is raised, Republicans will shout, “What about the Russian dossier Clinton paid for! They all lied about it! She was the one colluding with the Russians! That’s the real scandal!”
Hello Rip.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Benghazi!
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Pyperkub wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:24 pm Wapo deconstructs:
we all know the game here, or at least we should. The Republicans’ point is not to make a compelling, persuasive argument. It’s to create as much confusion as possible. It doesn’t matter whether any of it makes sense.

From this point forward, whenever anything having to do with Trump’s connections to Russia and Robert Mueller’s investigation is raised, Republicans will shout, “What about the Russian dossier Clinton paid for! They all lied about it! She was the one colluding with the Russians! That’s the real scandal!”
Hello Rip.
Yeah, and this is a reminder about how Trump won the electoral college. For every weakness or controversy or seedy scandal on him, he simply let loose similar sounding noise about Clinton. That got hyped around the conservative media sphere (especially Fox News), and gets debated (often in a bothsides kind of way) by cable news. Most voters who don't closely follow this stuff wind up with some variation of "there are accusations on this against both Trump and Clinton" and "they're both corrupt".
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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The intelligence of the electorate.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Captain Caveman »

The fevered cacophony of anti-Clinton Russia stories currently dominating right-wing media make me suspect that some very bad developments may be coming soon concerning the Trump investigation. Gotta muddy that water as much as possible before another big shoe drops.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Captain Caveman wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:20 pm The fevered cacophony of anti-Clinton Russia stories currently dominating right-wing media make me suspect that some very bad developments may be coming soon concerning the Trump investigation. Gotta muddy that water as much as possible before another big shoe drops.
You are on the same wavelength as several commentators I've read today. They are saying that the WH must know that Mueller may have hit pay dirt because they are also simultaneously calling for Mueller to resign. I wonder if we'll have something concrete by year's end.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Captain Caveman »

I was just referring to the obsessive coverage of the "Clinton Uranium" and dossier stories. I hadn't heard much lately specifically targeting Mueller but that's interesting if true. Fingers crossed that he's got the goods.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Also here is a neat story about how Trump's lawyer had some mysterious land dealings of his own recently. I'd love nothing more to see a whole money laundering cabal fall around Trump's neck.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Captain Caveman wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:30 pm I was just referring to the obsessive coverage of the "Clinton Uranium" and dossier stories. I hadn't heard much lately specifically targeting Mueller but that's interesting if true. Fingers crossed that he's got the goods.
Here is a sample. :)

And another about Mueller specifically in the WSJ.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Captain Caveman »

By Thanksgiving? That seems really optimistic. But who the heck knows where things stand right now with the investigation.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Captain Caveman wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:30 pm I was just referring to the obsessive coverage of the "Clinton Uranium" and dossier stories. I hadn't heard much lately specifically targeting Mueller but that's interesting if true. Fingers crossed that he's got the goods.
Remember that Trump's tweets on the dossier recently were saying stuff like "Were Russia, the FBI, and/or the Dems funding the dossier?" So by wrapping the FBI into it (since the FBI has done some digging into the Steele dossier), that builds a case along the lines of: "The Democrats funded the dossier and collaborated with the FBI on it. Comey was in on it as head of the FBI and therefore needs to be investigated. Mueller is close to Comey and so should resign given this investigation because his closeness with Comey / the FBI is a conflict of interest." Which builds a possible grounds for pushing to oust Mueller.

Of course, if the growing anti-Trump caucus in the Senate stands for anything, it would be for preserving Mueller's inquiry, so this would be a tough and uncertain road for Trump. But if Mueller's got a bombshell coming, you would imagine that he would try.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Captain Caveman wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:54 pm By Thanksgiving? That seems really optimistic. But who the heck knows where things stand right now with the investigation.
It does. But on the other hand the FBI has been investigating since last July, and they apparently already have enough to inform Manafort that they plan to indict him, so they may not be far off. And if you're Mueller and you know that Trump may try to fire you / shut you down at some point, there's lots of incentive to work as at fast a pace as humanly possible.

Bear in mind a bombshell might not be indicting Trump. Indicting any of Manafort / Kushner / Flynn, or anyone else at that level, would probably qualify.
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