The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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gilraen
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by gilraen »

I want to know if Rudy really has "insurance"...
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi »

It’s funny
That statement of his implies both that he knows Trump could implicate Him in something nefarious, but wants to make it clear to Trump that he could take him down with him.

I mean, that’s all he could possibly be saying and yet the media will not be able to articulate that.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

It's a game of chicken. With dumb chickens.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Trent Steel »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:44 pm It's a game of chicken. With dumb chickens.
:D
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo »

gilraen wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:36 pm I want to know if Rudy really has "insurance"...
FWIW the Rudy insurance quote was essentially 'People ask me whether Trump is going to throw me under the bus. He won't, but I have insurance, so it will cover my hospital bills", or thereabouts. Honestly I think the 'insurance' part was just a dumb joke using the metaphor of being thrown under a bus. E.g., if he is literally thrown under a bus, his medical bills will be covered by insurance.
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Unagi
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi »

I don't think so. I think it was him saying he has things (proof that he was following Trump's orders, for instance) that would mitigate the damage done by said under-bus throwing.


proof being that he has now said he was just being sarcastic....
and also how the lawyer chimed in:
In a telephone interview with the Guardian, in response to a question about whether he was nervous that Trump might “throw him under a bus” in the impeachment crisis, Giuliani said, with a slight laugh: “I’m not, but I do have very, very good insurance, so if he does, all my hospital bills will be paid.”
Giuliani’s lawyer, Robert Costello, who was also on the call, then interjected: “He’s joking.”
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Jag »

gilraen wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:36 pm I want to know if Rudy really has "insurance"...
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Didn’t Rudy tweet that his “insurance” was evidence of Biden corruption? Like all things Rudy says, though, that makes no sense. How would the threat of revealing Biden’s corruption stop Trump from throwing Rudy under the bus?
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo »

I suppose it's academic what Guiliani really meant at the time, since by virtue of leading Trump's Ukraine effort, and by virtue of having Russian mobsters as business partners, Guiliani *does* have to know plenty of incriminating information about Trump, and therefore has information that he can spill if he so chooses.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Jaymann »

So if a client throws his attorney under the bus, attorney-client privilege is out the window?
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by YellowKing »

In my dream world, Giuliani's entire bizarre performance has been a cleverly crafted ruse. As soon as Trump throws him under the bus, Giuliani releases the flood of damning tapes, videos, and documentation he has been collecting while undercover. Only after Trump has departed the White House in defeat, destined to live his remaining days behind bars, does Giuliani come clean. "America's Mayor never left you," he'd proclaim, a single tear rolling down his cheek. "The small sacrifice of my public humiliation was well worth saving the democracy of this great nation."
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by msteelers »

He did say he would be the hero in this story.
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Unagi
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi »

Perhaps he was the Whistle Blower... (not remotely serious)
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi »

Jaymann wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:57 pm So if a client throws his attorney under the bus, attorney-client privilege is out the window?
As soon as there are crimes going on with the attorney 'on the clock' - the crime-fraud exception to the attorney-client privilege would kick in. Guliani could legally speak about any of it (AFAIK) , but in this case he would be so deeply involved I don't see how it would be a defense as much as a 'you are going down with me' move.

/IANAL
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNBC
A federal appeals court ruled Tuesday that Deutsche Bank and Capital One can hand over years of President Donald Trump’s financial records in compliance with House Democrats’ subpoenas.
...
The case is likely destined for the Supreme Court, where the president has already appealed two other lower court decisions requiring the disclosure of his financial records.

The other two cases involve subpoenas issued to the president’s longtime accounting firm Mazars USA.

The justices are likely to decide whether to hear the cases in the coming days. On Thursday, the president’s private legal team is expected to submit its formal petition to the top court asking it to review a decision by the federal appeals court in Washington, D.C., that ordered Mazars to comply with a subpoena issued by the House Oversight Committee.

The justices will meet in private later this month to discuss the petition in the other case, over a subpoena issued to the firm by state prosecutors in New York.
I would laugh myself silly if they deny cert without comment.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:06 pm CNBC
A federal appeals court ruled Tuesday that Deutsche Bank and Capital One can hand over years of President Donald Trump’s financial records in compliance with House Democrats’ subpoenas.
...
The case is likely destined for the Supreme Court, where the president has already appealed two other lower court decisions requiring the disclosure of his financial records.

The other two cases involve subpoenas issued to the president’s longtime accounting firm Mazars USA.

The justices are likely to decide whether to hear the cases in the coming days. On Thursday, the president’s private legal team is expected to submit its formal petition to the top court asking it to review a decision by the federal appeals court in Washington, D.C., that ordered Mazars to comply with a subpoena issued by the House Oversight Committee.

The justices will meet in private later this month to discuss the petition in the other case, over a subpoena issued to the firm by state prosecutors in New York.
I would laugh myself silly if they deny cert without comment.
They *should* deny cert, given that this is uncontroversial law (companies are required to comply with congressional subpoenas barring pretty weird circumstances). I wouldn't be shocked if they granted cert given the importance of the case, but under ordinary circumstances I would expect a cert denial.

If they grant cert and reverse, I'm going to freak the fuck out, because that would suggest that SCOTUS is inclined to be a shield for this administration.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by hentzau »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:44 pm It's a game of chicken. With dumb chickens.
You just made me LOL in my cube here at work. Not cool, man. I'm supposed to be working!!!
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
Rick Gates, one of the most significant former Trump campaign advisers who flipped on President Donald Trump in the Mueller investigation, was sentenced to 45 days in jail and three years probation by a federal judge Tuesday morning.

But the judge veered from simply giving him his sentence to acknowledge the significant role he had played as a witness in the Mueller investigation.

Gates, a longtime deputy to 2016 Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort who shared searing details about Trump's efforts in 2016 with special counsel Robert Mueller, admitted to helping Manafort conceal $75 million in foreign bank accounts from their years of Ukraine lobbying work.
...
As part of his plea deal, Gates agreed to plead guilty to related charges of conspiracy and lying to investigators in February 2018. He also signed up to cooperate, giving Mueller's team key insights into Manafort and Trump's actions in 2016 during the height of the Russia investigations.

"I accept complete responsibility for my actions," Gates told Jackson on Tuesday. He only spoke about three sentences to the judge, asking for leniency before receiving his sentence. But the prosecutor on his case and his defense attorney emphasized just how sincere he had been in his cooperation and how much he had reformed his life since his work with Manafort.

Molly Gaston, the prosecutor, called Gates' cooperation "extraordinary." She also noted that even Manafort had pressured him not to plead guilty, telling him that a legal defense fund would continue to help them fight their charges in 2018.
...
Gates will also pay a $20,000 fine and fulfill 300 hours of community service. He will be allowed to serve his jail sentence on weekends or intermittently during his three years of probation.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

I can only hope that the b.s. sentencing he received is because of whatever information he shared. Because otherwise, it's another white-collar crime being shrugged off.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Holman »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:01 pm I can only hope that the b.s. sentencing he received is because of whatever information he shared. Because otherwise, it's another white-collar crime being shrugged off.
Gates cooperated fully. He's the reason Manafort and Stone are in/going to jail.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Holman »

Holy Shit. Giuliani's (which is to say, Trump's) ongoing efforts to dig up further dirt in Ukraine are being directly funded by one of Putin's crony oligarchs.



It's Russia all the way down with these treason clowns.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

Keep in mind Firtash is still fighting extradition to the US as well. He is trying to buy his freedom by supporting Trump. Nunes had also been connected to Firtash by Parnas. Parnas says he has evidence of it and claims Nunes' alleged secret trip to Vienna was to visit Firtash in person.

The web of conspiracy here is pretty big if you know what to pay attention to. It feels like it should be a #pizzagate like farce but never gets debunked. It is one of the most insane parts of this whole thing. Unlike the movies the happy ending never comes and the bad guys seemingly get away with everything.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

WaPo
A state court judge in Manhattan dismissed Paul Manafort’s residential mortgage fraud case Wednesday, deciding the local charges against President Trump’s former campaign chairman amounted to a double-jeopardy violation.

Manafort, 70, who was previously convicted in a pair of federal cases related to special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation of election interference in 2016, was hospitalized in recent days and did not appear in court. He was sentenced in March to 7 1/2 years in prison and has been incarcerated at a federal facility in Pennsylvania.

Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Maxwell Wiley said state law prohibits the type of case brought by the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office in an effort to ensure Manafort would be held accountable and remain in custody should Trump move to issue a pardon for the federal convictions. With limited exceptions, the premise of double jeopardy prevents multiple prosecutions stemming from the same crimes.
...
Prosecutors had made technical arguments to explain why the case should beat a double-jeopardy challenge, saying there were “fresh elements” that overlapped with Manafort’s February 2018 indictment for bank fraud in the Eastern District of Virginia. The jury on that case was undecided on seven counts — later dismissed as part of a plea deal — making them fair game for Manhattan prosecutors to charge the corresponding crimes at the state level, the DA’s office argued.

Wiley, the judge, decided that the leftover counts from Virginia were “previously prosecuted” and that a new case based on the same conduct is prohibited. He wrote in his decision that the DA’s office disregarded the “clear meaning” of the Virginia judge’s words when he formally dismissed the counts last year. While prosecutors did demonstrate there were new elements at play, they failed to show that their case represented “very different kinds of harms or evils,” Wiley decided.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
Peter Strzok, the fired former FBI agent who played a senior role in the early Russian election meddling investigation, has alleged in a new court filing in a case challenging his ouster that the Justice Department and FBI violated his rights to privacy and free speech.

The document was filed in DC District Court Monday in response to the Justice Department's motion to dismiss the lawsuit Strzok filed in August, which alleges his termination in 2018 came because of political pressure from President Donald Trump.

In the new filing, Strzok's legal team argues the Justice Department's defense of his termination "would subject thousands of mid-level managers in the federal government to punishment for expressing their opinions about candidates for national office in private water cooler conversations."
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
In the face of warnings from the Pentagon that the hold on military aid to Ukraine could be illegal, an official from the Office of Management and Budget made it clear that the order to keep the freeze in place came directly from President Donald Trump, according to unredacted documents reviewed by Just Security.

The documents, including emails from officials at the Department of Defense and the Office of Management and Budget that were released under court order last month but were either partially or completely blacked out, offer new details about tensions between the two agencies tasked with carrying out Trump's unexplained hold on aid to Ukraine.

They also raise serious questions about why the newly revealed contents were redacted by the Trump administration in the first place amid congressional oversight efforts and court orders in Freedom of Information Act litigation.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

I don't know if I'll ever be able to get over how shamelessly these people lie in the face of facts. If we get past this I think we need to criminalize lying to the public by officials. I know that is fraught with peril but we need protection from this level of mendacity from the government.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LordMortis »

As we prepare to send battalions, regiments, brigades, and "contractors" to the middle east for increased protection, it occurs to me how much that manpower and expertise could be used in Australia right now. :(

Edit wrong thread. I swore to Pancake I put this in Political Randomness and it's too late to turn back now.
Last edited by LordMortis on Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:58 pm As we prepare to send battalions, regiments, brigades, and "contractors" to the middle east for increased protection, it occurs to me how much that manpower and expertise could be used in Australia right now. :(
Number of Trump properties on that continent: 0.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

Remember when people wanted to wait for the court system before impeachment? To be a bit fair, staying this while the SCOTUS decides if we are Hungary is prudent.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
The Government Accountability Office said the Trump administration broke the law when it withheld US security aid to Ukraine last year that had been appropriated by Congress, a decision that's at the heart of the House's impeachment case against President Donald Trump.

The GAO, a nonpartisan congressional watchdog, said in a decision issued Thursday that the White House budget office violated the Impoundment Control Act, a 1974 law that limits the White House from withholding funds that Congress has appropriated.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LordMortis »

"When it comes to whether or not you’re going to impeach a president of your own party, particularly over a policy difference or whether or not he has lack of decorum or whatever, I think that’s something that a lot of voters will not excuse."
-Rand Paul

Impeachment are charges of "one for abuse of power and one for obstruction of Congress."
Using the powers of his high office, President Trump solicited the interference of a foreign government, Ukraine, in the 2020 United States Presidential election. He did so through a scheme or course of conduct that included soliciting the Government of Ukraine to publicly announce investigations that would benefit his reelection, harm the election prospects of a political opponent, and influence the 2020 United States Presidential election to his advantage. President Trump also sought to pressure the Government of Ukraine to take these steps by conditioning official United States Government acts of significant value to Ukraine on its public announcement of the investigations. President Trump engaged in this scheme or course of conduct for corrupt purposes in pursuit of personal political benefit. In so doing, President Trump used the powers of the Presidency in a manner that compromised the national security of the United States and undermined the integrity of the United States democratic process. He thus ignored and injured the interests of the Nation.
In response, without lawful cause or excuse, President Trump directed Executive Branch agencies, offices, and officials not to comply with those subpoenas. President Trump thus interposed the powers of the Presidency against the lawful subpoenas of the House of Representatives, and assumed to himself functions and judgments necessary to the exercise of the “sole Power of Impeachment” vested by the Constitution in the House of Representatives. President Trump abused the powers of his high office through the following means:
Forgetting for a moment if the allegations are provable nor even true, Rand Paul believe that soliciting interference for elections and directing non compliance with congressional subpoenas is in impeachment over "over a policy difference or whether or not he has lack of decorum or whatever"
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Kurth »

No. Rand isn't hanging his hat on refusing to impeach over "a policy difference" or "a lack of decorum. It's the "whatever."

Whatever it is, the GOP is not going to impeach Trump.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by gbasden »

Kurth wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:32 pm No. Rand isn't hanging his hat on refusing to impeach over "a policy difference" or "a lack of decorum. It's the "whatever."

Whatever it is, the GOP is not going to impeach Trump.
It does put the lie to his purported libertarian small government propaganda bullshit, though. He's another party hack.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
Top Justice Department officials are taking the extraordinary step of disavowing and undercutting their own federal prosecutors, announcing plans to reduce the government's sentence recommended for longtime Donald Trump confidante Roger Stone, a senior department official said Tuesday.

The stunning and politically charged decision, which is expected to be filed in Washington, DC, federal court later Tuesday, comes hours after Trump publicly criticized the recommendation. It immediately raised questions about the Justice Department's independence from political pressure, and soon after the announcement, a prosecutor who worked on the case against Stone resigned from the DC US attorney's office and asked to withdraw from the case.

Prosecutors from the US Attorney's office in Washington, who are employees of the Justice Department, had said Monday that Stone should be sentenced to seven to nine years in prison after he was convicted on seven charges last year that derived from former special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation, including lying to Congress and witness tampering.
...
Soon after the revised recommendation was made, Aaron S.J. Zelinsky, a top prosecutor on Mueller's team, resigned from the DC US attorney's office, where he had been working as a special assistant US attorney. He also filed a motion to withdraw from the case.
...
A spokeswoman for the Baltimore US attorney's office said Tuesday afternoon that Zelinksy had not resigned from his position there.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo »

This is going to be a fun argument / hearing for some DoJ attorney.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:12 pmThis is going to be a fun argument / hearing for some DoJ attorney.
It will also be an indicator of where we are. The judiciary is our firewall at the moment. If Stone gets a break it will be another shot below the waterline for law and order.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:11 pm
El Guapo wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:12 pmThis is going to be a fun argument / hearing for some DoJ attorney.
It will also be an indicator of where we are. The judiciary is our firewall at the moment. If Stone gets a break it will be another shot below the waterline for law and order.
This does put the judge in a bit of a tight spot. Prior to the DOJ getting involved, Popehat was tweeting that he thought that the sentencing recommendation was aggressive, and that he thought that the judge would give Stone less than what was recommended (probably something like 3ish years). BUT now if the judge does that, she'll look like she's cutting Stone a break in response to Trump's pressure. BUT this is where it matters a lot what the judge thinks of as her core responsibilities in this type of situation. Does she think that the most important thing is to give Stone a "just" sentence in light of his crimes, outside influences be damned? Does she weigh the impact of how the media / public will interpret the sentence? And what does she think is a 'fair' sentence for Stone setting aside outside influences?
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

We get another week of the Stone kerfuffle before the next round:
Stone was set to learn his punishment on Feb. 6, but U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson said Friday she’d allowed for a short delay until Feb. 20.

Attorneys for Stone asked Thursday for a monthlong extension because they had yet to compile all the financial and other records that federal probation officials need before they submit their report ahead of the sentencing.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Scoop20906 »

Things are definitely different now:

Monday: Prosecutors filed sentencing memo in Roger Stone case requesting 7 - 9 years prison time (within the federal sentencing guidelines)

Tuesday (at 1:49 AM ET): the president tweets about the case, calling it “unfair” and saying “Cannot allow this miscarriage of justice!”

Tuesday afternoon: the four prosecutors withdraw from the case after learning on Fox News about DoJ’s intention to intervene

Then: DoJ files amended sentencing briefing saying the recommendation of 7 - 9 years "would not be appropriate"

NBC later reported that AG Barr would personally be “taking control of legal matters of interest to President Trump, including the Roger Stone case”

Later: the president began casting aspersions on the judge in the Stone case via Twitter and thanked AG Barr

Also yesterday: judge in former National Security advisor, Michael Flynn, postponed his sentencing indefinitely ““until further order of the court”
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Blackhawk »

So, the executive just seized* control of the judicial. Whatcha gonna do? Sue 'im?

*finished seizing
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