The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:53 pm
That's lying under oath for Jeff Sessions then.
Perish the thought! No, it's been explained that Page simply informed Sessions, who barely knew him, that he was traveling to Russia to speak at a University. Totally normal - I often inform important people who I barely know about travel plans that are completely unrelated to the campaign that we are both working on. It is of course sheer coincidence that (totally unimportant!) people on the Trump campaign had been talking about setting up a meeting with Putin's people, and that Manafort and Clovis had decided to send a lower level person to Russia rather than Trump.

As you can see, no reason to be suspicious or to ask further questions!
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Holman »

How easy would it be for Trump to take the opportunity to fire Sessions and appoint an acting AG who will fire Mueller?

According to this article from the last time Trump turned on Sessions, it might not be that simple, but I don't know.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Holman wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:42 amHow easy would it be for Trump to take the opportunity to fire Sessions and appoint an acting AG who will fire Mueller?
The people who might be considered shouldn't be complete idiots. Possibly corrupt. Possibly in Trump's pocket... but not blithering morons. I can't imagine they'd get that far in life with a career in 'Justice' and be lobotomy patients. Anyone who replaces Sessions has got to be outside the established circle of trust from the campaign, right? Hasn't Trump pretty much burned up everyone who was with him or stuck them somewhere they could do the most harm to the US? That leaves him with outsiders. I can't imagine anyone who has enough legal knowledge to be considered for the position thinking anything this radioactive is worth getting slaughtered for.

That might just be me having too much faith in people who aren't current Trump appointees, though.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Holman wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:42 am How easy would it be for Trump to take the opportunity to fire Sessions and appoint an acting AG who will fire Mueller?

According to this article from the last time Trump turned on Sessions, it might not be that simple, but I don't know.
Not easy. Or at least, it would be pretty risky. When Trump launched his hazing campaign against Sessions to try to get him to quit, GOP senators publicly defended Sessions in significant numbers. Sessions is popular among the Republican Senate and has independent popularity among Trump's base.

Of course, (semi-ironically) as Sessions himself comes under increased scrutiny for his Russia involvement and perjury and whatnot, the objective case for his dismissal gets stronger, which could give Trump some room to fire him. But at the same time, isn't Rosenstein next in line to be acting AG? And if Trump needs to fire Rosenstein...well, he can do that now while Sessions is still in place. And while Trump could appoint a new full-time AG upon firing Sessions, I don't think the Senate would approve a Trump lackey who would fire Mueller at this point (possible that I am being a little naïve here, but I do think that's unlikely).
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Holman wrote:link
Carter Page reportedly testified today that he told Jeff Sessions he was traveling to Russia during the election.
That's lying under oath for Jeff Sessions then.
Well, a second witness (Papadopoulos). Remember, Page was stupid enough not to bring a lawyer to his session.

But enough to force the issue.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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I still haven't quite wrapped my head around Carter Page...

At first blush he seems like an ignorant buffoon, coopted by Russian spies, and caught up in events far above his understanding, yet when he does interviews he has this tone that makes it seem like he thinks the whole world is filled with morons who are incapable of seeing what a hero he is.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm looking forward to the Carter Page biopic starring Jack McBreyer.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Pyperkub wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:54 am Remember, Page was stupid enough not to bring a lawyer to his session.
But I'm betting he brings a Sessions to his lawyer. *rimshot*
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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From Twitter:
Republican Rep. Gaetz has intro’d a non-binding resolution that Mueller should resign from his position as special counsel
Who is he?
Matthew Gaetz is an American attorney and politician who has been the U.S. Representative for Florida's 1st congressional district since 2017. A Republican, he was a member of the Florida House of Representatives, representing the 4th District, which includes most of Okaloosa County, from 2010 to 2016.
Always Florida. Always.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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I believe the esteemed Louie Gohmert (TX) has signed on as well. I'm so proud of my state :roll:
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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In terms of Trump firing Mueller - or indirectly by replacing Sessions - the question is whether the Republicans in congress would stop him. So far, until the above, to the extent they've had any reaction, they've been mildly supportive of Mueller - they're saying he's doing his job and not feeding in to some in the RW media saying that Mueller is a hack, needs to be fired, etc. On the other hand, they haven't been actively doing anything to prevent Mueller from being fired (or going on the record to say that they would oppose such a firing). They're probably playing it safe in the middle, which allows them to turn on Trump if his approval rating goes south (among Republicans).
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Sepiche wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:30 am
I guess what I'm saying is I'm looking forward to the Carter Page biopic starring Jack McBreyer.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Defiant wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:10 pm In terms of Trump firing Mueller - or indirectly by replacing Sessions - the question is whether the Republicans in congress would stop him. So far, until the above, to the extent they've had any reaction, they've been mildly supportive of Mueller - they're saying he's doing his job and not feeding in to some in the RW media saying that Mueller is a hack, needs to be fired, etc. On the other hand, they haven't been actively doing anything to prevent Mueller from being fired (or going on the record to say that they would oppose such a firing). They're probably playing it safe in the middle, which allows them to turn on Trump if his approval rating goes south (among Republicans).
That's not really true. Graham has said that there "would be holy hell to pay" if Trump fired Mueller. Several other GOP senators (and some representatives) have said things along the lines of Mueller’s investigation should be funded “until the job is done.”

It's true that no one's really gone much beyond vague threats and intimations on what to do if Trump tries to fire Mueller, but plenty of them (mainly senators) have said that they oppose defunding / firing Mueller.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Apropos of nothing really, I just want to say that the Mueller investigation looks thorough, professional, and biased only to where the facts lead it. I expect that he will ultimately prove Trump guilty of collusion...but if he exonerates Trump, I will accept that the outcome was fair.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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El Guapo wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:15 pm
Defiant wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:10 pm In terms of Trump firing Mueller - or indirectly by replacing Sessions - the question is whether the Republicans in congress would stop him. So far, until the above, to the extent they've had any reaction, they've been mildly supportive of Mueller - they're saying he's doing his job and not feeding in to some in the RW media saying that Mueller is a hack, needs to be fired, etc. On the other hand, they haven't been actively doing anything to prevent Mueller from being fired (or going on the record to say that they would oppose such a firing). They're probably playing it safe in the middle, which allows them to turn on Trump if his approval rating goes south (among Republicans).
That's not really true. Graham has said that there "would be holy hell to pay" if Trump fired Mueller. Several other GOP senators (and some representatives) have said things along the lines of Mueller’s investigation should be funded “until the job is done.”

It's true that no one's really gone much beyond vague threats and intimations on what to do if Trump tries to fire Mueller, but plenty of them (mainly senators) have said that they oppose defunding / firing Mueller.
Good to hear.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Defiant wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:24 pm
El Guapo wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:15 pm
Defiant wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:10 pm In terms of Trump firing Mueller - or indirectly by replacing Sessions - the question is whether the Republicans in congress would stop him. So far, until the above, to the extent they've had any reaction, they've been mildly supportive of Mueller - they're saying he's doing his job and not feeding in to some in the RW media saying that Mueller is a hack, needs to be fired, etc. On the other hand, they haven't been actively doing anything to prevent Mueller from being fired (or going on the record to say that they would oppose such a firing). They're probably playing it safe in the middle, which allows them to turn on Trump if his approval rating goes south (among Republicans).
That's not really true. Graham has said that there "would be holy hell to pay" if Trump fired Mueller. Several other GOP senators (and some representatives) have said things along the lines of Mueller’s investigation should be funded “until the job is done.”

It's true that no one's really gone much beyond vague threats and intimations on what to do if Trump tries to fire Mueller, but plenty of them (mainly senators) have said that they oppose defunding / firing Mueller.
Good to hear.
Yeah, on the whole I am sufficiently satisfied with the Republican response to the Mueller indictments. Trump and the conservative echo chamber have been pushing the Uranium One nonsense for a couple weeks as an obvious justification for firing Mueller, but only a small number of GOP representatives have really taken the bait on that. 538 tracked responses, and most were along the lines of what I was saying above. Not that I feel comfortable about how the GOP would *actually* respond in the event of a Mueller firing crisis, but I think there's a decent chance that the Senate at least would push back firmly. And that response is likely to restrain Trump, at least for the short to medium term.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Kraken wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:20 pm Apropos of nothing really, I just want to say that the Mueller investigation looks thorough, professional, and biased only to where the facts lead it. I expect that he will ultimately prove Trump guilty of collusion...but if he exonerates Trump, I will accept that the outcome was fair.
And if Trump tries an end around by abusing his pardon power to cover up malfeasance, Mueller appears to be ready:
Mueller wisely brought one set of charges (mostly financial crimes that preceded the campaign), and he is saving other charges that New York could also bring (tax fraud, soliciting stolen goods, soliciting/conspiring to hack computers). Mueller also knew that his indictment document on Monday would include a devastating amount of detail on paper without relying on any witnesses to testify, showing Mueller had the goods on a slam-dunk federal money laundering case. Then he dropped the hammer with the Papadopoulos plea agreement, showing Manafort and Gates that he has the goods on far more charges, both in federal and state court.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Authorities in Cyprus handed over the goods on Manafort:
Citing people familiar with Mueller’s investigation, Bloomberg reports that Cyprus gave Mueller's team documents relating to Manafort and his associate Richard Gates just dates before they were indicted Monday.

...

The indictment against Manafort and Gates alleges that they funneled more than $75 million through foreign bank accounts in Cyprus and other countries. According to a Bloomberg source, the duo had at least 15 accounts with Cypriot banks.
I bet there's some really good info in those documents. Some might say the best information.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Special Counsel Mueller has enough evidence to charge Flynn, son: NBC
Special Counsel Robert Mueller has collected sufficient evidence to charge Michael Flynn, U.S. President Donald Trump’s former national security adviser, and his son, NBC News reported on Sunday, citing multiple sources familiar with the investigation.

NBC News said Mueller’s team is looking at possible money laundering charges, lying to federal agents, and Flynn’s role in a possible plan to remove an opponent of the Turkish president from the United States in exchange for millions of dollars.

Mueller is increasing pressure on Flynn following his indictment of Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort, NBC News said.

Flynn served 24 days as Trump’s national security adviser but was fired after it was discovered he had misrepresented his contacts with a Russian diplomat to Vice President Michael Pence.

Barry Coburn, a lawyer for the younger Flynn, declined to comment. Robert Kelner, Flynn’s lawyer, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

NBC said that Mueller’s office also declined comment.

Reuters was not immediately able to confirm the report.
If the NBC reporting is accurate, then it seems like money laundering is going to be a recurring theme. Fortunately, Trump and family are known for their immaculately scrupulous business dealings, so none of this will splash onto them.
Last edited by Max Peck on Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Ha, I had just come in here to mention that.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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That gif annoys me, as it's not a perfect loop.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Agreed.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Max Peck wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:10 pm If the NBC reporting is accurate, then it seems like money laundering is going to be a recurring theme. Fortunately, Trump and family are known for their immaculately scrupulous business dealings, so none of this will splash onto them.
Earlier this week Trump said that Mueller should stick to his Russia investigation and not go looking into "old real estate deals," suggesting that this is the red line that would get him fired.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Zaxxon wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:12 pm Ha, I had just come in here to mention that.

Image
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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For me, it's the one that turns blank.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Blackhawk wrote:
Zaxxon wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:12 pm Ha, I had just come in here to mention that.

Image
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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@KenDilanianNBC wrote:Wow: JD Gordon tells NBC's @vmsalama he tried to stop Page from going to Moscow, but Page went around him "directly to campaign leadership."
Nobody knew that covering up collusion could be so complicated.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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On phone and hard to link, but apparently news is breaking now that Don Jr communicated directly with Wikileaks about coordinating releases of the hacked DNC emails.

EDIT: mentioned already in another traitor grift collusion thread
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Tots sounds like a big old nothingburger. :think:
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Lock Him Up!
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The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Scoop20906 »

So I am wondering if this is a crime. He is approached about releasing stolen emails in an attempt to influence the election. Is that illegal? I mean, leave Russia out of it for a moment.


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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Scoop20906 wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:41 pm So I am wondering if this is a crime. He is approached about releasing stolen emails in an attempt to influence the election. Is that illegal? I mean, leave Russia out of it for a moment.


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If it's not American, it almost certainly is against the laws covering elections, and that's not even considering the word "stolen" beside the word "emails". Is Don Jr. guilty of anything? depends on how he was involved.

Up here we had a a campaign hire an American firm to make cold calls. If it had been an Canadian company, no problem. Since it wasn't, major drama and investigation.

Max probably remembers better than I do. Hopefully he can clarify any details I've gotten wrong.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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GreenGoo wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:05 am
Scoop20906 wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:41 pm So I am wondering if this is a crime. He is approached about releasing stolen emails in an attempt to influence the election. Is that illegal? I mean, leave Russia out of it for a moment.


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If it's not American, it almost certainly is against the laws covering elections, and that's not even considering the word "stolen" beside the word "emails". Is Don Jr. guilty of anything? depends on how he was involved.

Up here we had a a campaign hire an American firm to make cold calls. If it had been an Canadian company, no problem. Since it wasn't, major drama and investigation.

Max probably remembers better than I do. Hopefully he can clarify any details I've gotten wrong.
There isn't actually anything wrong with Canadian politicians using American call centers. The scandal, such as it was, was that the Conservatives falsely accused the Liberals of doing so, while doing it themselves.
CBC News has learned that more than a dozen Conservative MPs employed U.S.-based political telemarketing firms during the last federal election campaign, contrary to Stephen Harper’s statement in Parliament this week.

The prime minister and his parliamentary secretary, Peterborough MP Dean Del Mastro, claimed in the Commons that the Liberals were the only party that used American calling firms.

"We’ve done some checking," the PM said, and "we’ve only found that it was the Liberal Party that did source its phone calls from the United States."

But documents show 14 Conservative campaigns enlisted the telephone services of an Ohio company called Front Porch Strategies.

During the election, the company made thousands of calls into each of those Canadian ridings from its headquarters in Columbus.

In fact, Del Mastro’s own campaign used the American firm twice during his successful bid for re-election last year.

Del Mastro was already left red-faced earlier this week after he accused the Liberals of using an American telemarketing firm which, in fact, is a Canadian company.

A source connected to Front Porch tells CBC News that all the calls from Ohio to Del Mastro’s riding during the election were programmed to show the telephone number of his local campaign headquarters, masking the fact the phoning was being done from Ohio.

Front Porch’s calls to 13 other ridings on behalf of Conservative candidates operated in the same way, the source said.

There is nothing illegal about Canadian political campaigns using the services of American telemarketing firms, and it is unclear why the Conservatives tried to tarnish the Liberals with the issue.
The real scandal, though, was the Conservatives using robocalls to sow disinformation about polling stations, in an attempt to suppress opposition votes.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Octavious »

Funny how every time someone needs to testify or new items are being released that Clinton is brought up. It's so god damn painfully obvious. Do they really think that will help if something real is found? I guess he's gotten through his entire life with this bullshit so maybe he will. :tjg:
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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I've missed some posts, so sorry if this has already been discussed.

Did you guys read the Carter Page transcript? I'm only a third of the way through but holy cow - this is why you bring a lawyer with you when you're under oath! The guy is either clueless or a moron. He also really doesn't know how to answer a question. And if that was the level of contact the Russians were forced to work with, I actually feel a bit sorry for them. I imagine a scene from Archer where the Russian handler is smiling to his face but banging his head against a wall as soon as Page leave. :D
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by malchior »

Apparently Trump's lawyer hilariously named Ty Cobb has been feeding Trump a diet of delusion about the status of the Mueller investigation. In short, he has Trump convinced that this would finish up by Thanksgiving. Instead according to the piece, the investigation is going down rat holes of further foreign meetings that haven't been disclosed and Mueller is treating this like a RICO case. Not in the Louise Mensch sense but more in a methodical approach that'll roll up members of the administration one by one. As the article argues fireworks may be incoming when Trump finally blows his stack and tries to fire Mueller.

Note: This piece is a reaction to this WaPo piece from yesterday.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Honestly, that Carter Page was evidently involved with official high-level meetings of any type at any point ought to be a pretty big scandal in and of itself.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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Trump's election may result in the swamp being drained after all.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

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stessier wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:50 pm I've missed some posts, so sorry if this has already been discussed.

Did you guys read the Carter Page transcript? I'm only a third of the way through but holy cow - this is why you bring a lawyer with you when you're under oath! The guy is either clueless or a moron. He also really doesn't know how to answer a question. And if that was the level of contact the Russians were forced to work with, I actually feel a bit sorry for them. I imagine a scene from Archer where the Russian handler is smiling to his face but banging his head against a wall as soon as Page leave. :D
I'm not a fan of Trey Gowdy after the mess of the Benghazi hearings but I will say, I find his questioning of Page to be incisive and funny at times, given the person he is questioning.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by gilraen »

stessier wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:50 pm I've missed some posts, so sorry if this has already been discussed.

Did you guys read the Carter Page transcript? I'm only a third of the way through but holy cow - this is why you bring a lawyer with you when you're under oath! The guy is either clueless or a moron. He also really doesn't know how to answer a question. And if that was the level of contact the Russians were forced to work with, I actually feel a bit sorry for them. I imagine a scene from Archer where the Russian handler is smiling to his face but banging his head against a wall as soon as Page leave. :D
Apparently Page's Russian "recruiters" had called him an idiot, in a conversation secretly recorded by the FBI.
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