The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

[El Guapo]

90 percent of America will search for "Prostitute" and "Pee", then call it quits when nothing shows up in the results.

To be fair, you do that with pretty much every government report or indictment that is released.

[hepcat]

...and children's books, movie reviews, restaurant menus, etc.

[El Guapo]

I continue to be fascinated by headline writing. The Yahoo News headline that I just breezed by read "Mueller Report Fails to Clear Trump of Obstruction". Not really what Team Trump is looking for there.

[hepcat]

Meanwhile, the headlines on Fox News read, "Mueller Report Proves that Trump has Gigantic Penis and Can Lift a Car Over His Head" and "Mueller Report Proves Trump Steaks Are the Most Flavorful and Delicious Steaks Money Can Buy".

[Paingod]

90 percent of America will search for "Prostitute" and "Pee", then call it quits when nothing shows up in the results.

I take it you've already done the search and came back with nothing?

[Holman]

I don't have time to site and read the 448 pages (and may never) but skimmed down through all of it and was surprised by the large blocks of text that were available. The sections I stopped and read felt like I was just re-reading news I had already seen or heard. I'm certain that people with more time will be able to pick it apart better than I can.

What's easy to overlook here is that this means the MSM reporting on all of this has been solid.

[hepcat]

90 percent of America will search for "Prostitute" and "Pee", then call it quits when nothing shows up in the results.

I take it you've already done the search and came back with nothing?

Yeah, but then I went in with a crayon and added a narrative I found more interesting. When I release the Hepcat Report, the world will REALLY know what went on.

By the way, can anyone disprove that Ted Bundy and Donald Trump were never seen at the same time and in the same place? Just doing a little research for my side of the story.

[Holman]

[Octavious]

Wow Conway totally called that before the report was released. He said to look for the although. I'm super glad that all the f'n idiots in the world are a ok with the President willfully taking hacked data from Russia. AMERICA!!!

[Sepiche]

Totally what an innocent man would say.

[YellowKing]

Well the folks who said the real report was far more damning to the President than Barr was letting on were the understaters of the year.

[Octavious]

As I expected I’m not seeing hearing anything that could possibly sway his supporters. He just needs to be voted out in 2020. I’m not confident that will happen.

[Octavious]

Well the folks who said the real report was far more damning to the President than Barr was letting on were the understaters of the year.

There’s terrible stuff in there but will it matter? Probably not.

[hepcat]

Totally what an innocent man would say.

To be fair though, the follow up to that makes it clear Trump was talking about how much of his presidency would be slowed down/hampered by the investigation (as evidenced by past presidential investigations), not that he was afraid something was going to be dug up that could result in impeachment.

[Unagi]

Yes. but also to be fair, he considered himself as fucked because he couldn't follow through with sucking Putin's dick. Not as rigorously as he had hoped. (which would perhaps reveal something that would end his presidency)

[YellowKing]

not that he was afraid something was going to be dug up that could result in impeachment.

When then leads back to the age old question....why lie? Why destroy communications? Why not cooperate fully? Why try to fire people?

If your only concern is the investigation slowing your presidency down, it seems the prudent move would be to get it over with as quickly as possible by cooperating to the fullest.

[Paingod]

not that he was afraid something was going to be dug up that could result in impeachment.

When then leads back to the age old question....why lie? Why destroy communications? Why not cooperate fully? Why try to fire people?

If your only concern is the investigation slowing your presidency down, it seems the prudent move would be to get it over with as quickly as possible by cooperating to the fullest.

Not if you're a man-child who throws tantrums anytime anyone doesn't grovel and scrape for you. Yes, he acts guilty. He also acts spoiled, entitled, rude, uncouth, and inhumanly foul. He's the sort of man that not bowing to kiss his ring would offend him enough to want to make a public spectacle of belittling you.

So yeah - he acts guilty. He also acts like a complete asshole. I hope we can bury him with legal charges, but wouldn't be surprised if the best we get is "He's not a good person and does bad things"

[Holman]

So the story of Volume I is "Despite an insane amount of contact with Russians, collusion is very hard to prove when evidence is hidden or privileged or in Russia, so we can't charge it."

And the story of Volume II is "Here's a roadmap to congressional impeachment for obstruction of justice. Have at it."

Is Volume III where the exoneration happens? Because there's no Volume III.

[Zarathud]

So happy that Trump has been replacing his people with those willing to follow orders.

Attempted, ineffective obstruction? Or a dumpster fire?

[Holman]

Also, Nadler and Schiff have both requested that Mueller appear for public testimony.

[Skinypupy]

I'm still confused as to why that wasn't Step #1. They knew this would turn into the exact shit-show that it has.

[El Guapo]

I'm still confused as to why that wasn't Step #1. They knew this would turn into the exact shit-show that it has.

Some of this process matters, because they have to assume that this isn't going to get turned over willingly, so this will ultimately rest on a judge's willingness to order production under the subpoena. "We made a good faith effort to get this stuff on our own before bothering the court" is a significant factor when you're looking for court-ordered production.

[Smoove_B]

Had some drive-time today and was able to listen to various legal-types speaking about all this stuff on my national communist radio (NPR) station. Their take (I'm paraphrasing) was that this report is really more about the areas where Mueller had to stop or was otherwise unable to proceed because of issues associated with the Constitution or unknowable elements like whether or not the President can be indited. My take on hearing all this was that if Mueller was tasked with investigating John Q. Public, their ass would be in a sling. However, because he was specifically tasked with investigating a sitting President, he was hamstrung from the get-go. He did take it as far as he could and (seemingly) concluded it would be up to Congress to go to the next step.

[hepcat]

not that he was afraid something was going to be dug up that could result in impeachment.

When then leads back to the age old question....why lie? Why destroy communications? Why not cooperate fully? Why try to fire people?

If your only concern is the investigation slowing your presidency down, it seems the prudent move would be to get it over with as quickly as possible by cooperating to the fullest.

Not if you're a man-child who throws tantrums anytime anyone doesn't grovel and scrape for you. Yes, he acts guilty. He also acts spoiled, entitled, rude, uncouth, and inhumanly foul. He's the sort of man that not bowing to kiss his ring would offend him enough to want to make a public spectacle of belittling you.

This. Trying to find reasoning beyond “he’s mentally 5 years old” is doomed to failure from the get go.

[Enough]

William Barr Declares Mueller Investigation Fully Exonerates Members Of Reagan Administration From Iran-Contra Involvement

[YellowKing]

Sorry, but I don't buy the "man child" argument for a minute.

You're telling me Trump only gives the *appearance* of being guilty because he's a baby and his fee-fees got hurt? Bullshit.

Michael Cohen already explained how Trump uses codes and underlings and all kinds of things to skirt the law. That motherfucker knew exactly what he was doing.

[stessier]

The chirons on CNN and Fox seem to be from different worlds. I'm stuck in a hotel room but not nearly brave enough to turn up the sound.

[Holman]

One interesting point is that the report nails down and explains that, yes, the Russians absolutely interfered in the 2016 election with the aim of supporting Trump and thwarting Clinton. Dozens of pages lay this out with no doubt about it. Even Barr didn't bother to muddy those waters.

Any talk about this on the NO COLLUSION NO OBSTRUCTION side?

[stessier]

In case anyone was wondering, it is very readable. I'm not that far in, but it isn't full of dense legalese or anything - this was written to be read by a wide audience.

[YellowKing]

Any talk about this on the NO COLLUSION NO OBSTRUCTION side?

Of course not. And I'd expect nothing less from the "I got mine so fuck you" party.

[stessier]

Interestingly, the Internet Research Agency (Russian social media spies) had the following orders in 2016 -

Main idea: Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary [Clinton] and the rest (except for Sanders and Trump - we support them).

Wonder how much Sanders will like that.

[Holman]

The question now is whether to impeach or wait for 2020 to let the people decide.

I say impeach. Bring everything into the light. Show the evidence. Demand answers.

It's likely that the House will impeach and the Senate will not. That's the political reality, but we're beyond politics in this; we're into the life and function of the Republic. The role of Congress in this is to judge the president's actions and then let the people assess their handling of it. The Founders fucked up a lot, but they saw the wisdom in this at least.

[YellowKing]

I could be wrong, but I don't see the House willing to take the political risk an impeachment effort would entail just 18 months from the election. They know it's not going to pass the Senate, so the only upside would be tarnishing Trump heading into 2020. Well, they can do that just fine without impeachment, by continuing with investigations, holding hearings with Mueller, issuing subpoenas, etc. And it's not like they're the underdog in 2020. Poll after poll has shown Trump being defeated by any random Democratic challenger. His approval rating has remained statically low since he took office. Impeachment proceedings could backfire spectacularly by firing up his base and generating sympathy.

It's really frustrating that Trump is going to get away with obstruction, but there are plenty of other criminal activities he'll be on the hook for when he leaves office. I think we may have to be content with that.

[stessier]

I'm up to page 65 of Volume 1 (74 / 448 going by the PDF). Two things stand out.

1. Don't ever, ever, ever open an email attachment or follow a link in an email.
2. I don't remember why we are supposed to care about those 33k emails from Hilary, but it sure doesn't look like they exist (as she stated - they had been deleted). With all the effort people put in to finding even one and it all turning up nothing sure makes it look like she was truthful.

[GungHo]

I could be wrong, but I don't see the House willing to take the political risk an impeachment effort would entail just 18 months from the election. They know it's not going to pass the Senate, so the only upside would be tarnishing Trump heading into 2020. Well, they can do that just fine without impeachment, by continuing with investigations, holding hearings with Mueller, issuing subpoenas, etc. And it's not like they're the underdog in 2020. Poll after poll has shown Trump being defeated by any random Democratic challenger. His approval rating has remained statically low since he took office. Impeachment proceedings could backfire spectacularly by firing up his base and generating sympathy.

It's really frustrating that Trump is going to get away with obstruction, but there are plenty of other criminal activities he'll be on the hook for when he leaves office. I think we may have to be content with that.

I'm down with that thinking. And the not indicting is beyond frustrating since it seems so obvious. Feels like (these)lawyers do a great job with the law but they suck at common sense.

EDIT: to say the lawyers in this case. Wouldn't want to offend any of our lawerly types here.

[stessier]

I'm up to page 65 of Volume 1 (74 / 448 going by the PDF). Two things stand out.

1. Don't ever, ever, ever open an email attachment or follow a link in an email.
2. I don't remember why we are supposed to care about those 33k emails from Hilary, but it sure doesn't look like they exist (as she stated - they had been deleted). With all the effort people put in to finding even one and it all turning up nothing sure makes it look like she was truthful.

Up to Page 93 of Volume 1 (101 / 448 in PDF). A few more thoughts -

3. People really have to work on their name SEO.
4. You can be whomever you want to be if you're willing to bend the truth / lie. Vetting seems to entail a Google search and phone conversation.
5. People want to believe you if what you are saying is what they want to hear.

[LordMortis]

The question now is whether to impeach or wait for 2020 to let the people decide.

I say impeach. Bring everything into the light. Show the evidence. Demand answers.

It's likely that the House will impeach and the Senate will not. That's the political reality, but we're beyond politics in this; we're into the life and function of the Republic. The role of Congress in this is to judge the president's actions and then let the people assess their handling of it. The Founders fucked up a lot, but they saw the wisdom in this at least.

Given Barr's insertion and opinion giving I was thinking about that this morning. He makes it really hard to say wait it out for 20 months, even when my guess is that without him I would think we wait. How fucked up is that? Pre-Barr I'm thinking the fabric of the nation is more important than anything until the Mueller report tells me otherwise. Post-Barr, I see wagon circling. His SS like press conference defense of the president was too much. That's not his job.

[Hamlet3145]

I could be wrong, but I don't see the House willing to take the political risk an impeachment effort would entail just 18 months from the election. They know it's not going to pass the Senate, so the only upside would be tarnishing Trump heading into 2020. Well, they can do that just fine without impeachment, by continuing with investigations, holding hearings with Mueller, issuing subpoenas, etc. And it's not like they're the underdog in 2020. Poll after poll has shown Trump being defeated by any random Democratic challenger. His approval rating has remained statically low since he took office. Impeachment proceedings could backfire spectacularly by firing up his base and generating sympathy.

It's really frustrating that Trump is going to get away with obstruction, but there are plenty of other criminal activities he'll be on the hook for when he leaves office. I think we may have to be content with that.

I agree with this interpretation. If there is no chance of the senate going along, there is not much upside for congress going through the motions even if it's the principled thing to do. And Pence might actually have a better outlook in the 2020 election than Trump would.

[RunningMn9]

It's really frustrating that Trump is going to get away with obstruction, but there are plenty of other criminal activities he'll be on the hook for when he leaves office. I think we may have to be content with that.

Get away with it? Just imagine how you are going to feel when he gets re-elected because of it.

[Blackhawk]

Just keep it peoples' minds. After 2020 he's a civilian.