At the end of the day, you have a governmental body that is unwilling to utilize the only power they have in the Constitution to address this. Maybe they're complicit. Maybe they're afraid of what it could mean for their own re-election or the next set of Presidential elections. It doesn't matter- the system is clearly broken when we collectively agree the President is above the law.
The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
At the end of the day, you have a governmental body that is unwilling to utilize the only power they have in the Constitution to address this. Maybe they're complicit. Maybe they're afraid of what it could mean for their own re-election or the next set of Presidential elections. It doesn't matter- the system is clearly broken when we collectively agree the President is above the law.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
The problem is not with the Democrats, it's the obsequious Republicans who would excuse Trump for raping their daughters if that were the charge and the evidence was a rash of orange babies. The exercise would be destined to fail unless they had reason to believe a critical number of Republican senators would seriously consider any charges. As it stands, the specter of obstruction charges can be used as part of the campaign strategy -- this would not be available as ammo if part of a failed impeachment trail. The result would be turd-brained MAGA heads screaming VICTORY and further inspire them to storm the polls to bring round two of the shit-show to pass.
I have to go with Pelosi on this. If you can get undeniable evidence, maybe there are sensible Republicans who can be quietly be recruited but until the math works out, the Dems are better off spending their time and energy developing a platform that is compelling on its own merits.
I have to go with Pelosi on this. If you can get undeniable evidence, maybe there are sensible Republicans who can be quietly be recruited but until the math works out, the Dems are better off spending their time and energy developing a platform that is compelling on its own merits.
Black Lives Matter
- Grifman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Bingo, this exactly. Everyone by now knows the Trump negatives - the MAGA cult isn't going to change, the left isn't going to change, the people that need to be persuaded are the people that voted for Obama that switched to Trump. You are not going to gain their vote by more Trump bashing - they know how bad he is. You need to give them a reason to vote Democratic.Jeff V wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:26 pm I have to go with Pelosi on this. If you can get undeniable evidence, maybe there are sensible Republicans who can be quietly be recruited but until the math works out, the Dems are better off spending their time and energy developing a platform that is compelling on its own merits.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
We're beyond voting and if you (collecitvely) have been sitting on the sidelines since 2015 and/or are generally apathetic to what's transpired, then you (collective) are part of the problem. Let's ask the man himself what should be done:
Asked to summarize what he wanted the American public to take from his report, Mueller calls it "a flag to those of us who have some responsibility in this area to exercise those responsibilities swiftly, and don't let this problem continue to linger."
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- Skinypupy
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
- LordMortis
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- hepcat
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Let's keep in mind that "the man himself" didn't actually want to be there and had to be forced to appear.
When it comes to Trump, we're on the same side. He's dangerously incompetent and a borderline sociopath. But some of us also view the continued return to the well of the Mueller report and the subsequent attempts at impeachment to be pointless at best, potentially damaging at worst. Not because we're apathetic and believe he SHOULDN'T be impeached and removed from office, but because we know that even if he was impeached (unlikely as it would have happened already if we weren't already through the looking glass) he WOULDN'T be removed from office. So we look towards 2020 and we hope that the dems can get past the infighting long enough to present a unified front that gives the nation a look at what should be, what can be; instead of a disjointed and chaotic reality tv show approach to politics that...let's face it...is EXACTLY what Trump wants and can work with.
He won. Period.
- LordMortis
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:50 pmLet's keep in mind that "the man himself" didn't actually want to be there and had to be forced to appear.
When it comes to Trump, we're on the same side. He's dangerously incompetent and a borderline sociopath. But we also view the continued return to the well of the Mueller report and the subsequent attempts at impeachment to be pointless at best, potentially damaging at worst. Not because we're apathetic and believe he SHOULDN'T be impeached and removed from office, but because we know that even if he was impeached he WOULDN'T be removed from office. So we look towards 2020 and we hope that the dems can get past the infighting long enough to present a unified front that gives the nation a look at what should be, what can be; instead of a disjointed and chaotic reality tv show approach to politics that...let's face it...is EXACTLY what Trump wants and can work with.
Kind of ironic we need a candidate that can show they can reset the course of our nation to rally us around the idea the we can start on a foundation to Make America Great Again. "American Exceptionalism" is dead and we have killed it. That doesn't inherently bother me. But its putrefaction guarded by those insisting they've resurrected it by adding air, water, and soil makes me ill on a nearly daily basis.
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
My take on this - and I could be wrong - is that he believes the report speaks for itself. More to the point, he did not (and does not) believe it was his job to prosecute or "make a move" on the President. Rather, he created this document as a roadmap for those that should, i.e. Congress. The idea that he needs to explain that in a hearing is probably annoying given the amount of work that went into crafting that document. He apparently still has faith in the system. I'm not so sure.
I don't think you're apathetic. I respectfully disagree that this is going to be solved by the democrats campaigning like it's a normal election cycle. I also think the damage being done by allowing a sitting President (not Trump) to exist and operate freely outside (above?) the law is problematic for everyone involved. I think my core issue with all this is the suggestion that the Democrats should just treat this like a budget crisis or a referendum on healthcare . This is so much larger than that. Alarm bells should be ringing at this point that our nation is in a crisis the likes of which we haven't seen.When it comes to Trump, we're on the same side. He's dangerously incompetent and a borderline sociopath. But some of us also view the continued return to the well of the Mueller report and the subsequent attempts at impeachment to be pointless at best, potentially damaging at worst. Not because we're apathetic and believe he SHOULDN'T be impeached and removed from office, but because we know that even if he was impeached (long shot or it would have happened already) he WOULDN'T be removed from office. So we look towards 2020 and we hope that the dems can get past the infighting long enough to present a unified front that gives the nation a look at what should be, what can be; instead of a disjointed and chaotic reality tv show approach to politics that...let's face it...is EXACTLY what Trump wants and can work with.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- hepcat
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Alarm bells ARE ringing...but they're only being heard by those who want to hear it, and it's been that way for a while now. At some point, you have to realize that the local firefighters aren't coming and you need to put the fire out yourself.
Errr..in this analogy, the republican party are the firefighters with their phones off the hook, we're the folks who can hear the alarm, and the dumpster fire is Trump.
As I said, we're through the looking glass. Attempts to apply any sense of justice and ethics to the GOP is almost futile right now. Concentrate on getting the message together, win in 2020, take back control, then put that orange son of a bitch behind bars for life. Oh, and also pass a ton of legislation condemning almost everything that human puss bucket did during his embarrassing 4 years.
For good measure, have Ivanka and Jared declared enemies of the state and deported to Peoria to serve out their sentences as event organizers for the local Shriners.
Edit: while we're at it, make sure his presidential library is renamed after Obama. That'll fuck his shit up. Wait...better yet...the Jim Acosta Presidential Library.
Errr..in this analogy, the republican party are the firefighters with their phones off the hook, we're the folks who can hear the alarm, and the dumpster fire is Trump.
As I said, we're through the looking glass. Attempts to apply any sense of justice and ethics to the GOP is almost futile right now. Concentrate on getting the message together, win in 2020, take back control, then put that orange son of a bitch behind bars for life. Oh, and also pass a ton of legislation condemning almost everything that human puss bucket did during his embarrassing 4 years.
For good measure, have Ivanka and Jared declared enemies of the state and deported to Peoria to serve out their sentences as event organizers for the local Shriners.
Edit: while we're at it, make sure his presidential library is renamed after Obama. That'll fuck his shit up. Wait...better yet...the Jim Acosta Presidential Library.
He won. Period.
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I fear control will be regained and for "the good of the nation" and to "let the healing begin" no one will answer for any crimes.hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:12 pmAs I said, we're through the looking glass. Attempts to apply any sense of justice and ethics to the GOP is almost futile right now. Concentrate on getting the message together, win in 2020, take back control, then put that orange son of a bitch behind bars for life. Oh, and also pass a ton of legislation condemning almost everything that human puss bucket did during his embarrassing 4 years.
Yes. This is a good idea. Regardless, I guess we're going to see what's planned:Edit: while we're at it, make sure his presidential library is renamed after Obama. That'll fuck his shit up. Wait...better yet...the Jim Acosta Presidential Library.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- Kraken
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Article II. Whaddaya gonna do?
All the Dems needed to do today was cast shade on Trump's "NO COLLUSION! NO OBSTRUCTION!" mantra. He colluded, but didn't break the law; he obstructed, but he can't be indicted for it. That's the whole gist, and that's what viewers needed to take away. (Obviously the MAGAhats will never understand that.)
Did they achieve that?
- LordMortis
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
How about the Donald Trump Library in honor of justice for the contributions of Scooter Libby, Dinesh D'Soura, The Hammonds, and Joseph M. Arpaio. His name should be associated with them for as long as we have these United States and we should be reminded of who are and what he let happen under our watch.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Most reviews I'm seeing point towards a less than fruitful hearing for Dems, and more importantly for Mueller. At best it's being called "shaky".Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:43 pmArticle II. Whaddaya gonna do?
All the Dems needed to do today was cast shade on Trump's "NO COLLUSION! NO OBSTRUCTION!" mantra. He colluded, but didn't break the law; he obstructed, but he can't be indicted for it. That's the whole gist, and that's what viewers needed to take away. (Obviously the MAGAhats will never understand that.)
Did they achieve that?
He won. Period.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Mueller didn't emerge as a #Resistance crusader, but no one expected him to.hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:19 pmMost reviews I'm seeing point towards a less than fruitful hearing for Dems, and more importantly for Mueller. At best it's being called "shaky".Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:43 pmArticle II. Whaddaya gonna do?
All the Dems needed to do today was cast shade on Trump's "NO COLLUSION! NO OBSTRUCTION!" mantra. He colluded, but didn't break the law; he obstructed, but he can't be indicted for it. That's the whole gist, and that's what viewers needed to take away. (Obviously the MAGAhats will never understand that.)
Did they achieve that?
In terms of raw political effect, though, the Dems won the day. It was never about America sitting down to watch six hours of mid-day hearings. It's about the 10-second soundbites that you'll be seeing in ads all through 2020. The strong moments are all decidedly anti-Trump.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Except at the post-hearing press conference Pelosi Et al. hammered the message that all of this is about "painting a picture" for the American people. My take home message was that they're still focused on optics - that they somehow need to "convince" the American public that there's cause for concern and the American people should do something about it. They too apparently have more faith in the system and the average voter than I do.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- YellowKing
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I don't see why we can't do both. Impeach the son of a bitch AND win 2020.
I didn't join the Blue Wave of 2018 for Congress to wait until the next normal election cycle to do something about this monstrosity. I could have done that on my own without getting off the couch.
The last time I counted on the American people NOT to vote for Trump, most of them stayed home. I'm expected to blindly put all my faith in them again? During an election which Mueller just said is once again actively being meddled in by the Russians?
Mueller all but held up a blinking neon sign that said "CONGRESS PLEASE DO SOMETHING" and we're expected to just give them a pass? Because we're scared it *might* help Trump? Even as it completely destroys the long term prospects of ever removing another President that is incompetent, dangerous, and an enemy to the nation?
Move to impeach the motherfucker, lay it all out there. If Trump STILL gets re-elected, then we get what we deserve. But at least Congress did their job.
I didn't join the Blue Wave of 2018 for Congress to wait until the next normal election cycle to do something about this monstrosity. I could have done that on my own without getting off the couch.
The last time I counted on the American people NOT to vote for Trump, most of them stayed home. I'm expected to blindly put all my faith in them again? During an election which Mueller just said is once again actively being meddled in by the Russians?
Mueller all but held up a blinking neon sign that said "CONGRESS PLEASE DO SOMETHING" and we're expected to just give them a pass? Because we're scared it *might* help Trump? Even as it completely destroys the long term prospects of ever removing another President that is incompetent, dangerous, and an enemy to the nation?
Move to impeach the motherfucker, lay it all out there. If Trump STILL gets re-elected, then we get what we deserve. But at least Congress did their job.
- hepcat
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Fighting Trump with outrage is playing his game. I truly believe strategy and a level head will win the day.
That DOES NOT mean I don’t care, nor does it mean I’m giving up on punishing him for his crimes, or letting his reign become any sort of precedence for future crimes from equally amoral leaders.
That DOES NOT mean I don’t care, nor does it mean I’m giving up on punishing him for his crimes, or letting his reign become any sort of precedence for future crimes from equally amoral leaders.
He won. Period.
- Grifman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Since the Senate will not convict, hoping the voters will do the right thing in 2020 is the only hope you have. Impeachment is a road leading to nowhere.YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:43 pm The last time I counted on the American people NOT to vote for Trump, most of them stayed home. I'm expected to blindly put all my faith in them again? During an election which Mueller just said is once again actively being meddled in by the Russians?
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
- Grifman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
My dream is Trump being defeated, and having to sit there at the inauguration of a Democratic president, who in their inauguration speech repudiates all that Trump stands for, and explains how he/she is going reverse every single thing he has done.hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:10 pm Fighting Trump with outrage is playing his game. I truly believe strategy and a level head will win the day.
That DOES NOT mean I don’t care, nor does it mean I’m giving up on punishing him for his crimes, or letting his reign become any sort of precedence for future crimes from equally amoral leaders.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
At this point though is it really the Dem's fault, or even the Republican's, and not just the fault of the American voters? I get what YK is saying about electing the 'Blue Wave' but the fact that impeachment isn't any more popular than it is, the fact that trump's favorability rating hasn't dropped, the lack of protests against the trump creatures...isn't that all proof that basically we suck? Or a large enough percentage sucks that the rest of us don't matter? Kind of disheartening, to say the leastSmoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:22 pm
At the end of the day, you have a governmental body that is unwilling to utilize the only power they have in the Constitution to address this. Maybe they're complicit. Maybe they're afraid of what it could mean for their own re-election or the next set of Presidential elections. It doesn't matter- the system is clearly broken when we collectively agree the President is above the law.
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.
-Hiccup
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.
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- em2nought
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
That was like building a second Titanic and purposely ramming it into an iceberg to prove it should have been unsinkable. LOL You could try once more, seeing as this investigation cost more than three Titanics would have cost in 1912. What have you guys been lacing Mueller's coffee with?
"Four more years!" "Pause." LMAO
- hepcat
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
It was still less than Trump’s golf trips. Those have cost us around 102 million at last count. Mueller’s investigation came in at less than one third of that. Trumpies complaining about the cost of Mueller’s investigation while ignoring the far more costly vacations of their orange god is the very definition of delusional, or just hypocritical.em2nought wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:08 am That was like building a second Titanic and purposely ramming it into an iceberg to prove it should have been unsinkable. LOL You could try once more, seeing as this investigation cost more than three Titanics would have cost in 1912. What have you guys been lacing Mueller's coffee with?
Oh, sorry...truth isn’t something Trumpies like, is it?
P.S. don’t bother trying to find some way to say Obama spent more on his vacations, or that he took more of them during his time in office. You can’t because he didn’t. When it comes to taking money out of your pocket, Trump really IS the best at it. Although I guess you could go back to that already disproven lie that Obama gave Iran 150 million dollars, or any of the other already disproven lies you like to try to slip into your posts. Just be aware this isn’t the Fox News comment site, so no one will buy into your attempt to pass them off as true.
He won. Period.
- LawBeefaroni
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Here's the priorities, in order, of Congress:YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:43 pm I don't see why we can't do both. Impeach the son of a bitch AND win 2020.
I didn't join the Blue Wave of 2018 for Congress to wait until the next normal election cycle to do something about this monstrosity. I could have done that on my own without getting off the couch.
The last time I counted on the American people NOT to vote for Trump, most of them stayed home. I'm expected to blindly put all my faith in them again? During an election which Mueller just said is once again actively being meddled in by the Russians?
Mueller all but held up a blinking neon sign that said "CONGRESS PLEASE DO SOMETHING" and we're expected to just give them a pass? Because we're scared it *might* help Trump? Even as it completely destroys the long term prospects of ever removing another President that is incompetent, dangerous, and an enemy to the nation?
Move to impeach the motherfucker, lay it all out there. If Trump STILL gets re-elected, then we get what we deserve. But at least Congress did their job.
Self
Party
Family
Cronies/financial backers
Country
First they do everything they can to secure the future of their job. Then they get in line with the party (mostly because that helps with #1). They they set up their family by bringing in the bucks to the estate and getting them jobs. Then they pay back their backers with the old quid pro quo (this helps with #3 and #1 as well). Then, finally, they attempt to implement laws that line up with their vision for the nation (their vision, not their constituents').
Counting on them to stand up to Trump without regard to their personal goals and ambitions, on either side of the aisle, is a lost cause. The ones who do do it because it is the only thing that got them elected. There's always a little profit in the margins.
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MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Exactly. Impeachment without conviction isn't pointless. It repudiates his actions, you can literally spell out the wrongs and charges, it solidifies the values we seek to uphold, and you make the Senate responsible for their stance on them. Again a massive opportunity if done right. Losing the election will indeed remove Trump but it doesn't show that our political class were willing in part to stand against his words and deeds. It can be spun in a million different ways. Impeachment is direct action against the man and his values. It is a direct challenge. The worry about it helping him are based in supposed practicality when they are instead based on fear.YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:43 pm I don't see why we can't do both. Impeach the son of a bitch AND win 2020.
Again I agree - we have a representative democracy. We need our representatives to lead and not follow along to Trump's dance.I didn't join the Blue Wave of 2018 for Congress to wait until the next normal election cycle to do something about this monstrosity. I could have done that on my own without getting off the couch.
Seriously - I can't agree more. From what we heard last night, Pelosi still is resisting. I am beginning to think they need new leadership - Schiff was a standout who showed guts and smarts yesterday. Sorry to say but Pelosi might be great at fundraising and party discipline but they need to *fight* and she doesn't seem to be up to it.The last time I counted on the American people NOT to vote for Trump, most of them stayed home. I'm expected to blindly put all my faith in them again? During an election which Mueller just said is once again actively being meddled in by the Russians?
Mueller all but held up a blinking neon sign that said "CONGRESS PLEASE DO SOMETHING" and we're expected to just give them a pass? Because we're scared it *might* help Trump? Even as it completely destroys the long term prospects of ever removing another President that is incompetent, dangerous, and an enemy to the nation?
Move to impeach the motherfucker, lay it all out there. If Trump STILL gets re-elected, then we get what we deserve. But at least Congress did their job.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:08 am rom what we heard last night, Pelosi still is resisting. I am beginning to think they need new leadership - Schiff was a standout who showed guts and smarts yesterday. Sorry to say but Pelosi might be great at fundraising and party discipline but they need to *fight* and she doesn't seem to be up to it.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
GOP blocks election security bills. This happened after the testimony yesterday.
I'd love to hear her reasoning for why this was blocked. You'd think that at least making it appear that you want our elections secure from foreign interference would be a an apolitical issue, but they don't even care about those optics any more.Senate Republicans blocked two election security bills and a cybersecurity measure on Wednesday in the wake of former special counsel Robert Mueller warning about meddling attempts during his public testimony before congressional lawmakers.
Democrats tried to get consent to pass two bills that would require campaigns to alert the FBI and Federal Election Commission about foreign offers of assistance, as well as a bill to let the Senate Sergeant at Arms offer voluntary cyber assistance for personal devices and accounts of senators and staff.
But Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith (R-Miss.) blocked each of the bills. She didn't give reason for her objections, or say if she was objecting on behalf of herself or the Senate GOP caucus. A spokesman didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
As the junior senator from Mississippi, I imagine that she was tapped to be the scapegoat. She's been there for less than two years via special election, and is in a deep red state. Even if she loses in the future, she's likely to be replaced by someone more reliable, given her conservative Democrat history.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Yep - definitely the scapegoat. It doesn't hurt that no one knows who she is to even stick it on anyone.
- hepcat
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
The moron even sent out this message after the Mueller event.
"The House hearings rehashed what we already knew," she wrote. "There was no collusion. Let's move forward to fight Russian meddling, get past the partisan wild goose chases and work on issues that matter to everyday Americans."
He won. Period.
- YellowKing
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Just a clarification that even though hepcat and I disagree on impeachment for/against, I don't want to imply at all that he *doesn't* agree with Trump's wrongdoing.
It's a lose-lose situation, and if there's an easy answers, we'd all agree. The fact that many of us on this forum take opposing views while simultaneously agreeing about the problem just goes to show how difficult it is.
And I fully admit I could be totally wrong in beating the impeachment drum. That way may very well lie catastrophe. I speak mostly out of frustration, as I know what *needs* to be done, but have no real power to make it so. The House is the only tool I have to produce change, and that change is not going to happen under their watch. And that's maddening.
It's a lose-lose situation, and if there's an easy answers, we'd all agree. The fact that many of us on this forum take opposing views while simultaneously agreeing about the problem just goes to show how difficult it is.
And I fully admit I could be totally wrong in beating the impeachment drum. That way may very well lie catastrophe. I speak mostly out of frustration, as I know what *needs* to be done, but have no real power to make it so. The House is the only tool I have to produce change, and that change is not going to happen under their watch. And that's maddening.
- hepcat
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
That's really the only thing I worry folks might be taking away from the discussion over impeachment. We're all on the same side. We just disagree how we can get Trump into a fully gassed automobile, put a brick on the peddle, and send it towards a concrete wall at 120 mph.
...too dark?
...too dark?
He won. Period.
- Combustible Lemur
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Fwiw, I have found myself swayed in conjunction the Pod Save America guys. Particularly Tommy Vietor (national security spokesperson/assistant during Obama).
Basically supportive of the legal ground work/ wait and see Pelosi team strategy. As the months have rolled on, it has evolved to the, alright some of the battles are won, and some of them are already front loaded into the courts. Now, not impeaching just makes congress look scared and out of touch, regardless of the strategy.
While they need to plan and be cool and steady with the process, impeachment needs to be inevitable and imminent. The fall being the not necessarily ideal but prime time. Soon enough to be here, far enough out its not impulsive, and far enough from the election to potentially separate the two if that's called for.
It's getting to the point where, while yes impeachment WILL almost certainly fail, the politics of not trying will be worse than failing but fighting. Everybody knows where the Republicans stand, the courts are pretty solidly in line with the validity of the inquiries, and the approval rating for impeachment was higher than with Nixon. Pull the trigger.
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Basically supportive of the legal ground work/ wait and see Pelosi team strategy. As the months have rolled on, it has evolved to the, alright some of the battles are won, and some of them are already front loaded into the courts. Now, not impeaching just makes congress look scared and out of touch, regardless of the strategy.
While they need to plan and be cool and steady with the process, impeachment needs to be inevitable and imminent. The fall being the not necessarily ideal but prime time. Soon enough to be here, far enough out its not impulsive, and far enough from the election to potentially separate the two if that's called for.
It's getting to the point where, while yes impeachment WILL almost certainly fail, the politics of not trying will be worse than failing but fighting. Everybody knows where the Republicans stand, the courts are pretty solidly in line with the validity of the inquiries, and the approval rating for impeachment was higher than with Nixon. Pull the trigger.
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Is Scott home? thump thump thump Crash ......No.
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Nah, I know we all agree he's a PoS, we just have different opinions on the best way to address it. It's probably because of how I'm wired, but I strongly believe the system is the only way this will be properly addressed and when the system isn't using its inherent powers to do so, it's a much bigger problem than any one elected official. After the 2016 election I have no faith in the voting public - particularly in light of the kinds of things that continue to happen, particularly against women, children and immigrants. With every passing day, I believe he's going to be re-elected because as bad as it is, it's not bad enough for the apathetic majority to do something.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
My take is the Democrats have shown they have a penchant for being completely unable to measure real risk as an organization. Hillary Clinton was a massive risk but was seen as a safe inevitable choice. Even when early polling showed she had massively high unfavorable numbers heading into the election. They were proven to be very wrong...and I'd concede it was a low probability event...but still very wrong with grave consequences.
They also watched passively the Republican party build a grand machine over decades and never really got their act together to address it. Why? The story is always about them taking the high road or the 'long game'. Guess what? They've lost the long game for many years in the Supreme Court and across the Federal Court system in general. Especially since the Republicans have outmaneuvered them over and over in getting actual policy into action. In the end when I hear them again taking the safe, "practical" course I see them making the same type of mistake again. And the stakes are way too fucking high. Maybe impeachment is a high risk undertaking (it shouldn't be with all the evidence) but at least they would be going down fighting.
They also watched passively the Republican party build a grand machine over decades and never really got their act together to address it. Why? The story is always about them taking the high road or the 'long game'. Guess what? They've lost the long game for many years in the Supreme Court and across the Federal Court system in general. Especially since the Republicans have outmaneuvered them over and over in getting actual policy into action. In the end when I hear them again taking the safe, "practical" course I see them making the same type of mistake again. And the stakes are way too fucking high. Maybe impeachment is a high risk undertaking (it shouldn't be with all the evidence) but at least they would be going down fighting.
- Pyperkub
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
House Dems ratcheting up the Pressure:
A bitterly divided House Oversight Committee voted along party lines Thursday to subpoena White House work communications sent via personal email and cellphone, amid questions about whether the president’s daughter, Ivanka Trump, and son-in law Jared Kushner violated federal record-keeping laws.
The 23-to-16 vote came after House Democrats earlier this month asked the White House for copies of all work communications sent via nonofficial means, in an expansion of their investigation into Trump administration officials’ use of personal email and encrypted applications to communicate.
“I don’t know how to say this any differently: We have laws. And the laws say we keep official records,
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- LordMortis
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
But Article II says I can do anything I want.
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- LawBeefaroni
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
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