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The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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GreenGoo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Fri May 24, 2019 4:21 pm

Holman wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 1:58 pm
In response--although for some reason this isn't making headlines--Barr has caved, promising to turn over the unredacted Mueller report and the underlying materials.
Good. Now to wait until it actually happens. Also, who's verifying that he's releasing everything? Presumably....Barr?

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Holman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Holman » Fri May 24, 2019 4:41 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:21 pm
Holman wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 1:58 pm
In response--although for some reason this isn't making headlines--Barr has caved, promising to turn over the unredacted Mueller report and the underlying materials.
Good. Now to wait until it actually happens. Also, who's verifying that he's releasing everything? Presumably....Barr?
I assume the relevant committees will send letters to Mueller's team asking for verification.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Zarathud » Fri May 24, 2019 5:19 pm

The slow roll to impeachment also gets Trump to further Obstruct and Cover Up -- in Plain Sight. The House can indict but the Senate and the Public aren't ready to convict. A Mueller report based impeachment doesn't cover Trump's businesses.

The impeachment Smoking Gun will be in Trump's financials. Business with Russia and other shady characters who are benefitting from/directing US foreign policy. It will also expose the sham of Trump's success -- and why Russia sought to use him as a tool.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Jeff V » Fri May 24, 2019 6:42 pm

Zarathud wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 5:19 pm
The slow roll to impeachment also gets Trump to further Obstruct and Cover Up -- in Plain Sight. The House can indict but the Senate and the Public aren't ready to convict. A Mueller report based impeachment doesn't cover Trump's businesses.

The impeachment Smoking Gun will be in Trump's financials. Business with Russia and other shady characters who are benefitting from/directing US foreign policy. It will also expose the sham of Trump's success -- and why Russia sought to use him as a tool.
This really needed to be started in 2017. The Dems need a number of confirmed Republicans to vote with them, and as the 2020 campaign ramps up, they are only going to get senators who are in a dire re-election campaign who might save their ass if they vote for impeachment.

At this point, the house should relentlessly pursue a body of evidence that can be used in the event Trump survives the 2020 election but winds up with a completely hostile congress. They could have him impeached and dismissed before inauguration day! My hope though is that Trump not only loses the election but the criminal case goes to trial. Maybe they can turn Mar-a-lago into a country club prison to house him and all of his accomplices- especially the rats who turned on him (would be nice to see his pal Jeffrey Epstein there too).

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior » Sat May 25, 2019 4:54 am

Holman wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 1:58 pm
Guess what? It looks like it worked.

In response--although for some reason this isn't making headlines--Barr has caved, promising to turn over the unredacted Mueller report and the underlying materials.

It didn't work..yet. This is not the request that led to the contempt citation. That request came from Nadler's committee. Nadler was looking for grand jury testimony and the full unredacted report.

This is a completely separate document request that doesn't necessarily include the unredacted report (but might go there.) It is chiefly about counterintelligence background information. It will possibly give the committee insight into the foreign intelligence aspects of the Russia investigation.

The Wahington Post wrote:Assistant Attorney General Stephen Boyd, in the statement said, as a part of the department's latest offer that all members of the House Intel Committee would be able to view a less-redacted version of "Volume 1" of the Mueller report that dealt primarily with outlining Russia's expansive efforts to meddle in the election.
However, some expect it to be the DOJ slow rolling out documents so do not be surprised if Schiff is making noise about that soon. Also, Trump had his tantrum in the Cabinet Room the next morning after this agreement; cooperation is definitely not a given here.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Kurth » Tue May 28, 2019 10:21 am

Jeff V wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:42 pm
At this point, the house should relentlessly pursue a body of evidence that can be used in the event Trump survives the 2020 election but winds up with a completely hostile congress. They could have him impeached and dismissed before inauguration day! My hope though is that Trump not only loses the election but the criminal case goes to trial. Maybe they can turn Mar-a-lago into a country club prison to house him and all of his accomplices- especially the rats who turned on him (would be nice to see his pal Jeffrey Epstein there too).
You realize how completely fucked up this is, right? You think it’s a good idea for the country to have Congress impeach and remove a president who was just elected to a second term prior to his inauguration ? I don’t see how Trump survives the election and loses both houses of Congress. Those two outcomes seem incompatible to me. But if that were to happen, all other things remaining constant, the impeachment pipe dream is over.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Jeff V » Tue May 28, 2019 11:25 am

I think there are good reasons to wait until after the election unless there is such overwhelming evidence that even Trumps kowtowing toadies can't stand up for him. I think probably now there is enough evidence that a Democrat-controlled branch of congress will vote to Impeach. If, after 2020 election, the Dems control both house but Trump still manages to defy logic and remain president, then yes, they should act without delay since the premise is they have enough evidence to convict.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Zarathud » Tue May 28, 2019 12:55 pm

If there is enough evidence to convict, show it to the people.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by hepcat » Tue May 28, 2019 1:07 pm

Kurth wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:21 am
Jeff V wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:42 pm
At this point, the house should relentlessly pursue a body of evidence that can be used in the event Trump survives the 2020 election but winds up with a completely hostile congress. They could have him impeached and dismissed before inauguration day! My hope though is that Trump not only loses the election but the criminal case goes to trial. Maybe they can turn Mar-a-lago into a country club prison to house him and all of his accomplices- especially the rats who turned on him (would be nice to see his pal Jeffrey Epstein there too).
You realize how completely fucked up this is, right? You think it’s a good idea for the country to have Congress impeach and remove a president who was just elected to a second term prior to his inauguration ?
While I agree with you on the need to play this cautiously in order to avoid losing a bigger battle, I do think folks need to remember that impeachment and removal from office are two different things. He might get impeached, but he probably wouldn't be unseated.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Skinypupy » Wed May 29, 2019 10:10 am



Huh.

Not expecting anything to come of it but that's an interesting development. My guess is that it will be "I completed my report, made recommendations to congress, and will not be testifying or doing anything further". Barr is still his boss, after all.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior » Wed May 29, 2019 10:18 am

I actually am concerned about this - the Barr DOJ approved this press release which means we might be going to get a hostage tape type statement. It will at best be neutral and worst be along the lines of Barr-Rosenstein 'exoneration'. If the latter, then we are possibly more fucked than was previously thought.

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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Wed May 29, 2019 10:21 am



Yeah, this can't be *good*, it can only be neutral to bad, since there's no indication of DOJ / Bar objections. Best case scenario is that Mueller demanded some opportunity to speak publicly or else he was going to agree to testify publicly or do something else more drastic, but that seems unlikely.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by pr0ner » Wed May 29, 2019 10:31 am

How about we wait til he talks before assuming the worst?
Hodor.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Skinypupy » Wed May 29, 2019 10:32 am

pr0ner wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:31 am
How about we wait til he talks before assuming the worst?
I always assume the worst. It's the only way to survive this current timeline.
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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Wed May 29, 2019 10:37 am

pr0ner wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:31 am
How about we wait til he talks before assuming the worst?
Pffff. Then we would have to wait for another *half hour* before speculating.

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Jaymann
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Jaymann » Wed May 29, 2019 10:51 am

What's the worst, that he comes out wearing a FULLY EXONERATED T-shirt and a MAGA hat?
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by wonderpug » Wed May 29, 2019 10:56 am

Jaymann wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:51 am
What's the worst, that he comes out wearing a FULLY EXONERATED T-shirt and a MAGA hat?
Trump will come out and declare that he is now Mueller. The best Mueller. Yuge.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by ImLawBoy » Wed May 29, 2019 10:57 am

pr0ner wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:31 am
How about we wait til he talks before assuming the worst?
Is this your first day on the internet, or just your first day on Octopus Overlords? :P
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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Wed May 29, 2019 11:00 am

Actually this is probably where Mueller announces the true QAnon indictments that he and Trump have been secretly working on, right?

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Kurth » Wed May 29, 2019 11:03 am

I don’t think this is going to be Barr special. I predict Mueller is going to have more to say than people are expecting. I don’t think he’s Barr’s (or anyone’s) lapdog.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Wed May 29, 2019 11:08 am

Apparently announcing that the Special Counsel office is being closed and he's leaving DOJ. Which makes sense given the Mueller report. Neither good nor bad (probably actually slightly good as I think we're better off in a scenario where Barr is not Mueller's boss).

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by AWS260 » Wed May 29, 2019 11:09 am


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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Wed May 29, 2019 11:10 am

Wow. Well, that's interesting.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Wed May 29, 2019 11:11 am



About as close to "we would have charged the President with obstruction of justice if we were permitted to" as one could hope for.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by pr0ner » Wed May 29, 2019 11:13 am

El Guapo wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:11 am

About as close to "we would have charged the President with obstruction of justice if we were permitted to" as one could hope for.
Certainly what it sounded like to me.
Hodor.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Holman » Wed May 29, 2019 11:13 am

It sounds like he's basically summarizing the report for a nation (and a GOP) that won't read it.

Seems to be emphasizing that (1) they couldn't secure enough evidence to assert conspiracy and (2) they can't charge a sitting president even when evidence exists (as really seems to be the case with obstruction).

"If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."

This is the very opposite of NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Wed May 29, 2019 11:16 am

Holman wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:13 am
NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION.
Sounds like Holman is exonerating the president, if you ask me.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Holman » Wed May 29, 2019 11:47 am


POTUS" wrote:"Nothing changes from the Mueller Report. There was insufficient evidence and therefore, in our Country, a person is innocent. The case is closed! Thank you."
"You got no case! You can't prove a thing!"
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior » Wed May 29, 2019 11:51 am

It was the dumbest of times...it was the....no screw it...it was the absolutely dumbest of times.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Alefroth » Wed May 29, 2019 12:15 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:16 am
Holman wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:13 am
NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION.
Sounds like Holman is exonerating the president, if you ask me.
Totally, at that.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Alefroth » Wed May 29, 2019 12:17 pm

Holman wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:47 am

POTUS" wrote:"Nothing changes from the Mueller Report. There was insufficient evidence and therefore, in our Country, a person is innocent. The case is closed! Thank you."
Unless you're Hillary Clinton.

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Holman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Holman » Wed May 29, 2019 12:28 pm

Kind of easy to miss in Mueller's statement is his reiteration of the reality and seriousness of the Russian attack on our election.

The WH still tacitly asserts that it didn't happen or doesn't matter and that investigating it is part of a Deep State coup against Trump. The "Russia Hoax."
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior » Wed May 29, 2019 12:33 pm


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Unagi
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi » Wed May 29, 2019 12:43 pm

That's pretty good.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed May 29, 2019 12:52 pm

No one wants to read the report.


:grund:
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by wonderpug » Wed May 29, 2019 1:18 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:52 pm
No one wants to read the report.


:grund:
Could someone summarize what my takeaways of LawBeef's post should be?

malchior
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior » Wed May 29, 2019 1:21 pm

wonderpug wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 1:18 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:52 pm
No one wants to read the report.


:grund:
Could someone summarize what my takeaways of LawBeef's post should be?
The report is unreadable! Very bad! Biased!

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Wed May 29, 2019 1:38 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:52 pm
report.
:grund:
That should do it.

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Max Peck » Wed May 29, 2019 1:43 pm

Holman wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:47 am

POTUS" wrote:"Nothing changes from the Mueller Report. There was insufficient evidence and therefore, in our Country, a person is innocent. The case is closed! Thank you."
"You got no case! You can't prove a thing!"
Every innocent person I ever met led with "there was insufficient evidence." :coffee:
Time and tide melt the snowman.

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El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo » Wed May 29, 2019 1:49 pm

AWS260 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:09 am
It'll be interesting to see this quote bounce around (non-Fox) cable news for a few days.

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