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Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by noxiousdog » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:36 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:05 pm
I'm not sure if I'm supposed to put this here, healthcare reform, Trump, economic turmoil, employment, or investor enclave thread

http://www.newsweek.com/alzheimers-park ... rch-780163

I chose here because tax reform and the speculation is what has my 401k up nearly 30% over the last 12 months and I afraid both to put more money in and to not put more money in.
Still, Pfizer isn’t hurting for money. The company is set to win big from the tax overhaul, but they’re passing the money on to investors instead of funding research and development. The company plans to spend about $10 billion buying back shares of its own stock, adding to the $6.4 billion it previously greenlit. It will also increase its dividend rate by six percent to 34 cents per share. That money could fund multiple clinical trials.
That's a bit of irresponsible reporting and is one of the biggest issues I have with media that either doesn't understand business or doesn't want to.

They spend much of the article explaining how much is spent treating Alzheimers, how many people have it, and how many people it kills. Then they try to say Pfizer is spending money on stock buybacks instead of research.

I can 100% guarantee that with a market that big, Pfizer would LOVE to have an Alzheimer's drug, but instead they haven't had enough promising research to justify the investment. Associating the tax cut to a reduction in a specific type of research is poor reporting.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by RunningMn9 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:42 pm

I agree with ND in the sense that it’s not an either or proposition. Pfizer isn’t being faced with the choice between paying off investors or curing Alzheimer’s.

That said, it points out the farce that this tax cut was about jobs. This tax cut was about enriching investors, and that’s it.


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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by LordMortis » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:07 pm

That's why it put here and not in the health care thread and didn't quote the stuff on Altzheimer's

The money shot was in the increased dividends and stock buybacks, which corresponds with the way my portfolio is looking.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Zarathud » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:31 pm

There is plenty of promising research but it's in early stages. Too bad we can't count on Trump research initiatives.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Moliere » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:28 pm

GOP Leaders Tell Fiscal Hawks To Fly Away, No Budget This Year
Remember former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's "full flop" on the question of needing a filibuster-proof majority to confirm judicial nominees? Or that golden moment right after the contested 2000 election where the Republicans suddenly championed federal sovereignty and the Democrats supported state's rights in attempts to win Bush v. Gore? You get the idea: The Dems and the GOP pretend to have principles but they abandon them the minute they sniff out a political opportunity.
...
We have, of course, seen this movie before. Republicans controlled the House, Senate, and White House under the first several years of George W. Bush and, despite the passage of tax cuts and oh-so-sincere promises to reduce spending, they absolutely kicked out the jams on outlays like nobody's business. The chart above and to the right shows total federal outlays in nominal dollars. If you believe that the real cost of government is what it spends, it's hard to argue that the GOP is in any way the party of small government. At best, they are the party of small-government rhetoric. And even there, don't get them started on issues such as immigration, gay marriage, and drug legalization.

None of this lets the Democrats off the hook, by the way. As Matt Welch refused to forget, Barack Obama campaigned on enacting "a net spending cut" in which "every dollar that I've proposed, I've proposed an additional cut so that it matches." When the Dems briefly won back control of the House, Speaker Nancy Pelosi declared that her party would cut spending. They didn't even try, of course, and who can blame him? When you get to funnel spending to your favored constituents, suddenly it's a real Sophie's choice to cut even the tiniest, most useless program. But just as our elected leaders have veered into open nihilism when it comes to principles, so too have they long been incapable of passing budgets in the very years that such bills are supposed to cover.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by malchior » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:42 pm

Of course there is no budget. Their tax cut makes it basically impossible. Well impossible without completely exposing the scam.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Alefroth » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:36 pm

This should make Trump even more insufferable.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Skinypupy » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:31 pm

I don't necessarily think they're wrong here, but goddammit,

Image
From Debbie Wasserman Shultz: "Frankly, if you look at the bonuses, which I haven't heard of a corporate bonus more than $1,000 so far—which by the way is taxed, so it's not $1,000," Schultz said. "And then you spread $1,000 over the course of a year—to think of about how much that is—of course they get it all at once. But I'm not sure that $1,000—which is taxed, taxable—goes very far for almost anyone."

From Nancy Pelosi: "There's a cartoon that I just love," Pelosi said. "There's a little mouse trap who's got a little piece of cheese on there, and there's a mouse about to take it and that's called the middle class … And around it are fat cats," or big businesses.

"And that’s the thing," Pelosi continued. "You get this little thing and we get this big bonanza. You get the crumb, we get the banquet."
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by ImLawBoy » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:42 pm

They may need to message it better, but it's ultimately true. If you get a bonus, it's a one-time thing. If you get a raise, then you get that additional money every year (plus you increase the basis number for ongoing years of your annual raise). Corporations are going to get the benefit of the tax break every year, but employees are only seeing the benefit of it once. I'm fairly certain my company is going to keep the same crappy raise percentages we've had for a while now even though we were the poster company for the $1000 bonuses.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by $iljanus » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:55 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:They may need to message it better, but it's ultimately true. If you get a bonus, it's a one-time thing. If you get a raise, then you get that additional money every year (plus you increase the basis number for ongoing years of your annual raise). Corporations are going to get the benefit of the tax break every year, but employees are only seeing the benefit of it once. I'm fairly certain my company is going to keep the same crappy raise percentages we've had for a while now even though we were the poster company for the $1000 bonuses.
And the cheese gets even smaller in a couple of years when those tax breaks for working Americans expire.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:18 pm

$1000 bonus works out to ~$0.50/hour for a year’s wages for a FT employee.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Skinypupy » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:43 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:42 pm
They may need to message it better, but it's ultimately true. If you get a bonus, it's a one-time thing. If you get a raise, then you get that additional money every year (plus you increase the basis number for ongoing years of your annual raise). Corporations are going to get the benefit of the tax break every year, but employees are only seeing the benefit of it once. I'm fairly certain my company is going to keep the same crappy raise percentages we've had for a while now even though we were the poster company for the $1000 bonuses.
Oh, I don't disagree with them much. I think we've all been or are in a spot where an extra $1,000 makes a major difference in our quality of life. It's not the principle of what they said, but I guarantee that the way they said it will be replayed and used against them over and over and over again.

Something like: "We're glad that companies have chosen to reward some middle-class Americans with an immediate bonus. However, that bonus will be quickly offset by stagnant wages, inflation, and additional costs they will have have to pay for insurance." sounds so much better than "$1,000? That amount of money only matters to you peasants."
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by El Guapo » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:42 am

Skinypupy wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:43 pm
ImLawBoy wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:42 pm
They may need to message it better, but it's ultimately true. If you get a bonus, it's a one-time thing. If you get a raise, then you get that additional money every year (plus you increase the basis number for ongoing years of your annual raise). Corporations are going to get the benefit of the tax break every year, but employees are only seeing the benefit of it once. I'm fairly certain my company is going to keep the same crappy raise percentages we've had for a while now even though we were the poster company for the $1000 bonuses.
Oh, I don't disagree with them much. I think we've all been or are in a spot where an extra $1,000 makes a major difference in our quality of life. It's not the principle of what they said, but I guarantee that the way they said it will be replayed and used against them over and over and over again.

Something like: "We're glad that companies have chosen to reward some middle-class Americans with an immediate bonus. However, that bonus will be quickly offset by stagnant wages, inflation, and additional costs they will have have to pay for insurance." sounds so much better than "$1,000? That amount of money only matters to you peasants."
Yeah, but the other thing you have to remember is that sensible things that Pelosi and the like say don't get quoted and replayed ad infinitum. So like, if she says 999 eminently reasonable things and 1 thing that sounds crazy / out-of-touch (out of context), it's the last thing that gets replayed (especially by political opponents). And it's not really possible to regularly talk about things without saying at least one thing that sounds weird out of context.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Fitzy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:52 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:42 am

Yeah, but the other thing you have to remember is that sensible things that Pelosi and the like say don't get quoted and replayed ad infinitum. So like, if she says 999 eminently reasonable things and 1 thing that sounds crazy / out-of-touch (out of context), it's the last thing that gets replayed (especially by political opponents). And it's not really possible to regularly talk about things without saying at least one thing that sounds weird out of context.
Can you imagine if this were true of Trump? He'd have to talk nonstop just to make up for the crazy. Are there even enough hours?

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by El Guapo » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:11 pm

Fitzy wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:52 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:42 am

Yeah, but the other thing you have to remember is that sensible things that Pelosi and the like say don't get quoted and replayed ad infinitum. So like, if she says 999 eminently reasonable things and 1 thing that sounds crazy / out-of-touch (out of context), it's the last thing that gets replayed (especially by political opponents). And it's not really possible to regularly talk about things without saying at least one thing that sounds weird out of context.
Can you imagine if this were true of Trump? He'd have to talk nonstop just to make up for the crazy. Are there even enough hours?
Trump really is a giant DDOS crazy attack on the press.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Zarathud » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:21 pm

Just finished a tax conference. Some comments:
* Who could imagine these changes? But they did it anyway, and it come out of nowhere.
* The statute doesn't match what they said they were doing.
* If you need the "mother of all" tax corrections bills, you can't give Schumer and Pelosi nothing in return. They'll ask for the State and Local Tax deductions back. The Republicans can't give that back, so it's not getting fixed. And that was before they were treated badly.
* The IRS has to rewrite every tax form. It's a huge project that they then have to undo in 2025 if not in 2020. Does anyone think they can do a good job?

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by pr0ner » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:34 pm

They certainly failed on being able to do your taxes on a postcard.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by El Guapo » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:39 pm

pr0ner wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:34 pm
They certainly failed on being able to do your taxes on a postcard.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:06 am

It looks like the reform is on my check and it's going to be about a difference of 4% in my take home pay. I have no idea what it will mean come tax time though.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Chaz » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:16 am

Actually, yeah, I just looked at my pay statements, and the first one of this year is about $40 less than all the ones from last year.

But that can't be right. I was assured everyone would get a huge raise because of this bill.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Zaxxon » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:17 am

Chaz wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:16 am
But that can't be right. I was assured everyone would get a huge raise because of this bill.
For certain definitions of 'everyone.'

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by pr0ner » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:29 am

Tax reform hit my most recent paycheck, too. Net pay definitely went up, but I'm curious to see how it will all play out come tax filing time in 2019.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Jeff V » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:59 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:17 am
Chaz wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:16 am
But that can't be right. I was assured everyone would get a huge raise because of this bill.
For certain definitions of 'everyone.'
That would be the 1% The rest of us aren't anyone, we are merely crops for which the 1% harvest for their wealth and pay taxes so they don't have to.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by stessier » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:02 pm

Hit my paycheck as well. My take home increased 2.55%. I currently claim 6 exemptions which seems like the wrong thing at this point, but I don't know what to change it to.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by El Guapo » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:07 pm

I'm going to need to adjust our withholding regardless, as it looks like my wife's employer was withholding a comically low percentage of her paycheck this past year - around 6%. So, that's looking like a fun tax bill. I guess the good news is that I'd need to look at our withholding anyway in light of the GOP tax bill, so that's efficient. #ThanksTrump

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by pr0ner » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:40 pm

One benefit of working for the federal government is that their payroll department knows how to follow federal income tax withholding rules. :P
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:43 pm

stessier wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:02 pm
Hit my paycheck as well. My take home increased 2.55%. I currently claim 6 exemptions which seems like the wrong thing at this point, but I don't know what to change it to.
I claim zero. Gub'ment still said I owed them money every year until I maxed my 401k. We'll see how this plays out in the wash come April next. My 4% raise could be a myth or it could be a whole lot more as someone who was already claiming the standard deduction and receiving no tax breaks beyond deferring my 401k taxes to a later date.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by stessier » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:46 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:43 pm
stessier wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:02 pm
Hit my paycheck as well. My take home increased 2.55%. I currently claim 6 exemptions which seems like the wrong thing at this point, but I don't know what to change it to.
I claim zero. Gub'ment still said I owed them money every year until I maxed my 401k. We'll see how this plays out in the wash come April next. My 4% raise could be a myth or it could be a whole lot more as someone who was already claiming the standard deduction and receiving no tax breaks beyond deferring my 401k taxes to a later date.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:48 pm

possess multimillions in an investment portfolio, my guess is largely supported by real estate?

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:51 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:48 pm
possess multimillions in an investment portfolio, my guess is largely supported by real estate?
...which you should now be able to accomplish by Q42018 with your 4% raise. Checkmate.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:03 pm

If my raise holds out through my returns and I don't rise to it, that 4% will advance my retirement age by almost one month a year.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Jeff V » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:47 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:03 pm
If my raise holds out through my returns and I don't rise to it, that 4% will advance my retirement age by almost one month a year.
Mine is already at age 162. Not sure I'd bother figuring out how much further off the new taxes are going to advance it.

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by hepcat » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:36 pm

Oh sweet! Trump's tax reform pushed me into a new bracket and I'm now making less, :x
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Max Peck » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:49 pm

hepcat wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:36 pm
Oh sweet! Trump's tax reform pushed me into a new bracket and I'm now making less, :x
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by stessier » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:50 pm

hepcat wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:36 pm
Oh sweet! Trump's tax reform pushed me into a new bracket and I'm now making less, :x
Sorry.

Are you sure that's what it was though? Just looking at the brackets, that doesn't seem possible. You may end up paying more because of deductions (or the lack there of), but if you just pay based on the table, you'll end up paying less.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by LordMortis » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:50 pm

hepcat wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:36 pm
Oh sweet! Trump's tax reform pushed me into a new bracket and I'm now making less, :x
Can't tell if serious...

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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by stessier » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:53 pm

stessier wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:50 pm
hepcat wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:36 pm
Oh sweet! Trump's tax reform pushed me into a new bracket and I'm now making less, :x
Sorry.

Are you sure that's what it was though? Just looking at the brackets, that doesn't seem possible. You may end up paying more because of deductions (or the lack there of), but if you just pay based on the table, you'll end up paying less.

Code: Select all

NEW                                      OLD   
10% — 0 to $9,525                        10% — 0 to $9,325
12% — $9,525 to $38,700                  15% — $9,325 to $37,950
22% — $38,700 to $82,500                 25% — $37,950 to $91,900
24% — $82,500 to $157,500                28% — $91,900 to $191,650
32% — $157,500 to $200,000               33% — $191,650 to $416,700
35% — $200,000 to $500,000               35% — $416,700 to $418,400
37% — $500,000 and up                    39.6% — $418,400 and up
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by hepcat » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:59 pm

May be a false alarm. Looks like the "catch up" mechanic for my 401k is adding an additional 6000 a year to my deductions. I had to pour over my check line by line to find out what was happening. I was just looking at the direct deposit number and was annoyed to see a drop. When I referred to the tax brackets, I realized I was right on the cusp of a change and immediately assumed that was it.
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Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:01 pm

Thanks Obama!

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LordMortis
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Post by LordMortis » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:02 pm

hepcat wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:59 pm
May be a false alarm. Looks like the "catch up" mechanic for my 401k is adding an additional 6000 a year to my deductions.
You're old, and yeah going from 18,000 to 24,500 would make a big difference in your check.

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