Better than the current plan of selling us Trump brand cars made in China and marked up an additional 50 percent because they're red and have MAGA written on the side...
Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Covfefe!
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
That's ridiculous. There are a number of Senators, representatives, governors, etc. who are more impressive presidential candidates than Oprah. But of course "impressive" doesn't exist as an objective category in a vacuum - none of them are as impressive (I assume) as talk show hosts, or in creating a media empire, etc.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Oh really? Who has greater name recognition? Who among them can bankroll their own campaign? I read an article where Vegas odds has Oprah running in 3rd at the moment (since nobody has actually declared candidacy yet besides Trump, all of the non-Trump people available for betting have the uncertainty of an actual campaign built into the odds).El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:47 pmThat's ridiculous. There are a number of Senators, representatives, governors, etc. who are more impressive presidential candidates than Oprah. But of course "impressive" doesn't exist as an objective category in a vacuum - none of them are as impressive (I assume) as talk show hosts, or in creating a media empire, etc.
All of those other candidates you refer to are potential cogs in an Oprah campaign -- they could become advisors and potential cabinet members. Someone as popular as Oprah is that has her shit together is going to be hard to compete against -- not only do they have to overcome her popularity with financial resources they can't hope to match, but they risk hurting their own brand in the process. Oprah has the capacity of being a unifying force more so than any other democrat mentioned to date.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Are there many (any?) examples of non-politicians who have stepped into an executive role (i.e., governorship or president) without any political experience and been generally regarded as successful (regardless of whether you agreed with his or her positions on things)? Maybe Reagan, but he at least was president of the Screen Actors' Guild (an elected position, if not government) before becoming governor of California. I made reference before, but private equity billionaire (or at least 100s of millionsaire) Bruce Rauner here in Illinois has been . . . ineffective, to put it in the kindest terms. (Really looking forward to him being ousted by venture capitalist billionaire JB Pritzker in the next election.)
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
This is all great for winning an election, but what about governing once it's won? That's where I'd place more value in dozens of other candidates (whose names I don't even know yet) over Oprah. You're looking at the shiny surface, while Guapo is looking at who would actually be good at being president.Jeff V wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:01 pmOh really? Who has greater name recognition? Who among them can bankroll their own campaign? I read an article where Vegas odds has Oprah running in 3rd at the moment (since nobody has actually declared candidacy yet besides Trump, all of the non-Trump people available for betting have the uncertainty of an actual campaign built into the odds).El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:47 pmThat's ridiculous. There are a number of Senators, representatives, governors, etc. who are more impressive presidential candidates than Oprah. But of course "impressive" doesn't exist as an objective category in a vacuum - none of them are as impressive (I assume) as talk show hosts, or in creating a media empire, etc.
All of those other candidates you refer to are potential cogs in an Oprah campaign -- they could become advisors and potential cabinet members. Someone as popular as Oprah is that has her shit together is going to be hard to compete against -- not only do they have to overcome her popularity with financial resources they can't hope to match, but they risk hurting their own brand in the process. Oprah has the capacity of being a unifying force more so than any other democrat mentioned to date.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
It's certainly no weirder than the Zuckerberg rumors.
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Right? Or Mark Cuban. Or the Starbucks dude.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Ahnold?ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:07 pm Are there many (any?) examples of non-politicians who have stepped into an executive role (i.e., governorship or president) without any political experience and been generally regarded as successful (regardless of whether you agreed with his or her positions on things)? Maybe Reagan, but he at least was president of the Screen Actors' Guild (an elected position, if not government) before becoming governor of California. I made reference before, but private equity billionaire (or at least 100s of millionsaire) Bruce Rauner here in Illinois has been . . . ineffective, to put it in the kindest terms. (Really looking forward to him being ousted by venture capitalist billionaire JB Pritzker in the next election.)
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Not eligible without an Amendment.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
He asked for politicians elected with no experience not potential presidents. To my knowledge Ahnold had zero elected or public experience before being elected gov of Cali. I also understood his term to be successful but I admit to much ignorance regarding what he did or did not do during that time.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Yeah, that's potentially a good pick. I'm thinking of people who get elected governor or president without any political experience. (That's pretty limited for presidential candidates, and I also think we can probably rule out Washington given the uniqueness of that situation and the vastly different times we live in now.) I also will confess to not knowing how effective Arnold was as governator.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Jesse Ventura did it in Minnesota, but I don't know how truly effective he was there. I don't remember any horror stories, at least.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Maybe I need to amend my question to exclude Predator actors.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
I don't think Dwight Eisenhower had any prior experience.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
He was the "Military Governor" of the US occupied zone in Germany, but I don't think that really counts as a political position, so this one scores full points, because I think everyone agrees he was effective as President.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
It depends in part by what you mean by "impressive". I took that to mean impressive as a person / potential president. If you're talking about potential to run a strong presidential campaign, then that's better for Oprah. But even then, she's absolutely had a very impressive career, and built a huge empire out of nothing - she's certainly smart and capable. But she's never run a political campaign before, and rarely or never thought about many issues, countries, etc. that she would have to discuss fluently and confidently at length. And you compare that with (say) Sanders or Biden, who also have very strong name recognition, but who also have lived and breathed politics and campaigns for decades and know that stuff like the back of their hands. And who have access to fundraising machines.Jeff V wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:01 pmOh really? Who has greater name recognition? Who among them can bankroll their own campaign? I read an article where Vegas odds has Oprah running in 3rd at the moment (since nobody has actually declared candidacy yet besides Trump, all of the non-Trump people available for betting have the uncertainty of an actual campaign built into the odds).El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:47 pmThat's ridiculous. There are a number of Senators, representatives, governors, etc. who are more impressive presidential candidates than Oprah. But of course "impressive" doesn't exist as an objective category in a vacuum - none of them are as impressive (I assume) as talk show hosts, or in creating a media empire, etc.
All of those other candidates you refer to are potential cogs in an Oprah campaign -- they could become advisors and potential cabinet members. Someone as popular as Oprah is that has her shit together is going to be hard to compete against -- not only do they have to overcome her popularity with financial resources they can't hope to match, but they risk hurting their own brand in the process. Oprah has the capacity of being a unifying force more so than any other democrat mentioned to date.
Oprah is absolutely a plausible presidential candidate (if she decides to run). But she would be an underdog candidate.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
I'd trade up for President Dweezil right now.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Have to? Did you just come out of a coma?
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
I'm going to guess at what you're getting at here, but assuming for the moment that you're point is that she already does talk about many things fluently at length (on her show), then that's true, BUT I'm pretty sure that: (1) she's never talked about the Yemeni civil war on her show (for example); (2) never talked about that kind of stuff in the context of interviews where reporters and opposition people are trying to make you sound stupid or confused.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
I'm assuming his point was that Donald Trump just successfully prosecuted a campaign in which he didn't discuss anything fluently.El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:33 pmI'm going to guess at what you're getting at here, but assuming for the moment that you're point is that she already does talk about many things fluently at length (on her show), then that's true, BUT I'm pretty sure that: (1) she's never talked about the Yemeni civil war on her show (for example); (2) never talked about that kind of stuff in the context of interviews where reporters and opposition people are trying to make you sound stupid or confused.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Yeah, the Fretmute one. Being able to speak intelligently about anything is clearly not a requirement for the job. The fact that she appears to be able to do so is a huge bonus. I am not saying I want her as the leader of our nation, but I am pretty sure it would be better than where we are today.
I am curious to see what happens over the next couple years... mostly in a slow motion car wreck kind of way.
I am curious to see what happens over the next couple years... mostly in a slow motion car wreck kind of way.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
ah. I mean, that was a weakness for him in the campaign. Not that it can't be overcome (obviously). But also, Trump did that in part because his opponent was Hillary Clinton under criminal investigation, which (presumably) won't be the case for Oprah.Fretmute wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:45 pmI'm assuming his point was that Donald Trump just successfully prosecuted a campaign in which he didn't discuss anything fluently.El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:33 pmI'm going to guess at what you're getting at here, but assuming for the moment that you're point is that she already does talk about many things fluently at length (on her show), then that's true, BUT I'm pretty sure that: (1) she's never talked about the Yemeni civil war on her show (for example); (2) never talked about that kind of stuff in the context of interviews where reporters and opposition people are trying to make you sound stupid or confused.
And to be clear, if Oprah runs and wins the democratic primary, I think she would be the favorite in the general election against Trump. I think the biggest barrier would likely be winning the democratic primary.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
I think the next President is going to be seen as BEST PRESIDENT EVAR because they're going to be compared to Trump. And anyone compared to Trump is a legendary orator, political genius, and world-class humanitarian.
Just as Trump was a catastrophic over-correction for Obama, there's going to be an equally non-catastrophic over-correction for Trump.
Just as Trump was a catastrophic over-correction for Obama, there's going to be an equally non-catastrophic over-correction for Trump.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Arpaio 2020YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:54 pm I think the next President is going to be seen as BEST PRESIDENT EVAR because they're going to be compared to Trump. And anyone compared to Trump is a legendary orator, political genius, and world-class humanitarian
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
I still think the Oprah buzz (which has died down even today) is just a playful fantasy, but it's fun to consider how it might game out.
Oprah (unlike Trump) has no known strikes against her other than obvious inexperience. She's not criminal, she appears to be sane and smart, and she has a track record of engaged concern about issues beyond the Oprah Organization's bottom line.
Suppose she lined up a Democratic dream-team of rock-solid pros expected to fill the cabinet in her administration, exactly the kind of people you would expect a President Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren or Zombie Roosevelt to choose. Would that allay fears about a novice Chief Executive?
Oprah (unlike Trump) has no known strikes against her other than obvious inexperience. She's not criminal, she appears to be sane and smart, and she has a track record of engaged concern about issues beyond the Oprah Organization's bottom line.
Suppose she lined up a Democratic dream-team of rock-solid pros expected to fill the cabinet in her administration, exactly the kind of people you would expect a President Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren or Zombie Roosevelt to choose. Would that allay fears about a novice Chief Executive?
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
By the way, by OO conventions, shouldn't this thread be called "The Oprah Winfrey Sideshow"?
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
She's also foisted snake oil salesmen on the world like Drs. Oz and Phil, and given a platform for anti-vaxxers like Jenny McCarthy. That's not completely disqualifying, but even before we get people digging into her empire, she'd have to answer to concerns about those things.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Al Franken didn't have much experience and I assume Sonny Bono didn't either.
Granted it's congress rather than executive, but both are pretty highly regarded.
Granted it's congress rather than executive, but both are pretty highly regarded.
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Those would be my biggest concerns.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:17 pmShe's also foisted snake oil salesmen on the world like Drs. Oz and Phil, and given a platform for anti-vaxxers like Jenny McCarthy. That's not completely disqualifying, but even before we get people digging into her empire, she'd have to answer to concerns about those things.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Yeah, I was specifically going for executive position (governor or president). I'd accept the Senate or House as proving grounds where a non-standard politician could gain experience.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:18 pm Al Franken didn't have much experience and I assume Sonny Bono didn't either.
Granted it's congress rather than executive, but both are pretty highly regarded.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
That's true, and I have no idea what other embarrassing guests she might have hosted. Still, these would seem unlikely to sink her on their own, especially if she came out firmly on the side of normal science when asked.ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:17 pmShe's also foisted snake oil salesmen on the world like Drs. Oz and Phil, and given a platform for anti-vaxxers like Jenny McCarthy. That's not completely disqualifying, but even before we get people digging into her empire, she'd have to answer to concerns about those things.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
At least one non-fiction inspirational story author who's story was a complete fabrication.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Sure. It's more important for a president to assemble and heed experts than to be one herself. It's more about good judgment and people management than getting down in the policy weeds (although it certainly helps if the prez can follow arguments at that level, too). From what little I know about Oprah, she has the people skills. IDK if her ego is too big to defer to policy experts, but that would concern me. I'd be more comfortable with Martin Sheen or Kiefer Sutherland.Holman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:06 pm Suppose she lined up a Democratic dream-team of rock-solid pros expected to fill the cabinet in her administration, exactly the kind of people you would expect a President Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren or Zombie Roosevelt to choose. Would that allay fears about a novice Chief Executive?
But let's acknowledge the elephant in the room: I strongly doubt that a black woman could win, and I don't think the D Party will gamble on a woman or a minority after Hillary's loss and the Obama backlash.
Oprah might make a great running mate, though.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
I'm not totally opposed to Oprah running, despite not being a great fan of hers because of her history of pushing pseudo science.
I think as a follow up to the Drumpf phenomenon however it sets a bad precedent of famous, but unqualified people running for high office. I think if she has that ambition she needs to run for congress, or mayor, or governor somewhere, gain some of those qualifications, and then make a run.
I think as a follow up to the Drumpf phenomenon however it sets a bad precedent of famous, but unqualified people running for high office. I think if she has that ambition she needs to run for congress, or mayor, or governor somewhere, gain some of those qualifications, and then make a run.
Last edited by Sepiche on Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
A senator is one out of 100. A terrible senator is not as much of a disaster as a terrible president.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:18 pm Al Franken didn't have much experience and I assume Sonny Bono didn't either.
Granted it's congress rather than executive, but both are pretty highly regarded.
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
Wow, yeah. I had no idea. Disqualified!
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Re: Oprah for President! (and other non-conventional candidates)
I dunno. The lesson of the 21st century is that minorities and women are the key to Democratic victories. It might be that backlash to Trump will make Kamala Harris a key part of the 2020 ticket, at least as running mate.
Minorities and women have done pretty well lately. After all, Obama and Clinton are the number 1 and number 2 vote-getters in American history.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.