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Shootings

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LordMortis
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Re: Shootings

Post by LordMortis »

I hate when a bumpersticker works on me but this hit me

"Remember, they aren't prosecuting because they saw the tape. They're prosecuting because you saw the tape."

(Though I didn't. I can't watch that sort of stuff. I'm a snowflake. I'd be terrible in a revolution.)

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Grifman
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Re: Shootings

Post by Grifman »

The crazy thing is they told law enforcement they called out to the jogger, "Hey, stop, we want to talk to you" and when he didn't stop, they pulled ahead and blocked the road. I'm not black but if two rednecks with a shotgun and pistol drive beside me asking me to stop and talk to them, that's the last thing I'm going to do. And legally, he was under absolutely no obligation to stop for them - they weren't police. These guys were just dangerously stupid.

FYI, the current reporting is that the police who investigated the incident wanted to arrest them but the local DA refused their request. So it wasn't everyone here that dropped the ball.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Daehawk »

It was not their business past calling the police if they thought something was up. It wasn't even their house or a occupied house.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Holman »

Grifman wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:51 pm
The crazy thing is they told law enforcement they called out to the jogger, "Hey, stop, we want to talk to you" and when he didn't stop, they pulled ahead and blocked the road. I'm not black but if two rednecks with a shotgun and pistol drive beside me asking me to stop and talk to them, that's the last thing I'm going to do. And legally, he was under absolutely no obligation to stop for them - they weren't police. These guys were just dangerously stupid.

FYI, the current reporting is that the police who investigated the incident wanted to arrest them but the local DA refused their request. So it wasn't everyone here that dropped the ball.
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Re: Shootings

Post by malchior »

According to this video they were justified chasing him down. He looked in a house. [/sarcasm]


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Re: Shootings

Post by YellowKing »

Of course, even if the video showed him going inside the empty house and actively stealing tools out of it, two random people chasing him down and murdering him is still not justified.

I've actually done exactly what this guy is doing within the past 3 weeks. By that, I mean I was out jogging past some new construction and went in to look around. We are in the process of building a house, so I was curious to compare various floor plans.

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Re: Shootings

Post by malchior »

Update to date summary of the continuing investigation into the worst shooting in Canadian history.

A lot of not so surprising things such as history of reported domestic abuse that went wasn't taken seriously enough. That's pretty common. What's not so common is that I also saw an account that in the midst of the 13-hour manhunt the RCMP only sent alerts through twitter instead of the mobile alerting platform available to them. Also, his neighbors got fed up reporting him with no action and moved away.

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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 1:03 pm
According to this video they were justified chasing him down. He looked in a house. [/sarcasm]

Retired cops are not cops. Guys with shotguns whose dads are retired cops are not cops. There is no reason they should track this guy down and try to detain him.

If you do things like that and it goes to shit, it's on you. That's the chance you take.
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Paingod
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Re: Shootings

Post by Paingod »

An interesting timeline on the Ahmaud Arbery shooting investigation process from the GBI itself.
On February 23, 2020, Ahmaud Arbery was in the Satilla Shores neighborhood in Brunswick, GA when both Gregory and Travis McMichael confronted Arbery with two firearms. During the encounter, Travis McMichael shot and killed Arbery.
A couple of good old boys track down and murder a jogger while a friend records it for posterity. Lynching is alive and well in Georgia. Police take no action, no arrests.
On April 29th, 2020, the Glynn County Police Department (GCPD) requested that the GBI investigate allegations of threats against GCPD and individuals involved in the active investigation.
Police, angry that people are angry at them and the murderers they're protecting, ask the Georgia Bureau of Investigation to find out who they are and stop them. Over two months after the murder of Ahmaud Arbery. Still no police action taken. They're just really butthurt that people are pissed at them.
On the morning of May 5th, 2020, GCPD requested the GBI investigate the public release of video related to Arbery’s death.
Police, still pissed at people being angry for them not doing their jobs, demand the Georgia Bureau of Investigations find the person who released the tape that makes it harder to cover up the murder they've been ignoring.
Glynn County, GA (May 7, 2020) – On May 7th, 2020, the GBI arrested Gregory McMichael, age 64, and Travis McMichael, age 34, for the death of Ahmaud Arbery. They were both charged with murder and aggravated assault. The McMichaels were taken into custody and will be booked into the Glynn County Jail.
A week after the police contact the GBI to help them find the dangerous culprits who wanted them to arrest murderers, the GBI finally arrests someone.

I may be putting a snarky spin on it, but that's exactly how it looks. The GBI didn't get involved because of public outcry or bad policing - they got involved because the police wanted them to prosecute the person who leaked the tape and the others who are upset that they didn't do anything about this.

Side note: I, a grown white male, have also explored homes under construction out of curiosity. Line me up for execution, I suppose.
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Unagi
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Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

/Raises hand

Me too

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LordMortis
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Re: Shootings

Post by LordMortis »

Not as a grown man. As old as 19, we used to play laser tag at construction sites. By my 20s people were stealing copper from construction sites and selling it for scrap, so 1) security was being laid down, 2) the consequences for harmless fun could turn in to a felonious misunderstanding on a dime.

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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I would never even think of entering a home under construction. I mean seriously? That's trespassing, innit? Of course I'm not white.


Doesn't mean I agree that everyone who does so deserves to be chased down and shot, of course.



But it sounds like this is a thing, trespassing to explore homes under construction. Who knew?
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Unagi
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Re: Shootings

Post by Unagi »

The only time I did it after I was 14 or so, was once a few years back on a vacation in Florida. There was a home being built, I was familiar with the property (from my stay) and it's apparent lack of a crew, it was on a fairly private road.
(More or less, I very much felt I could get away with it without anyone knowing at all)

I walked up the driveway into what was probably going to be an attached garage, and looked past it's framed back wall, into the backyard where there was a pool foundation being put in.
Probably spent about 30 seconds looking and left.
Last edited by Unagi on Tue May 19, 2020 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shootings

Post by Remus West »

When I was a teen they were building a subdivision across the road I grew up on. I explored every single one of those homes and could have probably gotten around them better than the eventual homeowners due to the number of friends I led on "tours" of them. We never did anything to harm the construction though.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Skinypupy »

I remember my parents doing it all the time growing up.

Doubt it do it now though, too many utterly insane people.
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LordMortis
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Re: Shootings

Post by LordMortis »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:40 am
I would never even think of entering a home under construction. I mean seriously? That's trespassing, innit? Of course I'm not white.


Doesn't mean I agree that everyone who does so deserves to be chased down and shot, of course.



But it sounds like this is a thing, trespassing to explore homes under construction. Who knew?

Didn't say it was smart or legal. These were homes still at the framing stage, if that makes a difference.

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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I'm just baffled that it's a thing. Particularly since it sounds like it's mostly just curiosity and nothing untoward.
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Re: Shootings

Post by stessier »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:40 am
I would never even think of entering a home under construction. I mean seriously? That's trespassing, innit? Of course I'm not white.


Doesn't mean I agree that everyone who does so deserves to be chased down and shot, of course.



But it sounds like this is a thing, trespassing to explore homes under construction. Who knew?
I've done it several times around the times I was either building a house or looking to move into one. Always at the framing stage - so no doors to open it anything. Never thought there was a problem with it, but I'm also white.
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LordMortis
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Re: Shootings

Post by LordMortis »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 11:35 am
I'm just baffled that it's a thing. Particularly since it sounds like it's mostly just curiosity and nothing untoward.
I think we (rural and suburbanites, I'm guessing mostly white) were a transitioning age, where people with toy guns playing started getting shot, so we started putting hunter orange on toy guns and then criminals started putting hunter orange on real guns. Exploring aka trespassing was just part of what was being done, then vandalism took over and then theft took over. Bit by bit the freedom to be stupid at the age of 14 to 19 was removed as shootings and kidnappings and theft and vandalism became more common place, or perhaps more reported. I dunno. But the game definitely changed in the late 80s.

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Re: Shootings

Post by Pyperkub »

stessier wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 11:41 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:40 am
I would never even think of entering a home under construction. I mean seriously? That's trespassing, innit? Of course I'm not white.


Doesn't mean I agree that everyone who does so deserves to be chased down and shot, of course.



But it sounds like this is a thing, trespassing to explore homes under construction. Who knew?
I've done it several times around the times I was either building a house or looking to move into one. Always at the framing stage - so no doors to open it anything. Never thought there was a problem with it, but I'm also white.
As Teens, drinking beers in homes under construction at the framing stage was always a thing as well.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Blackhawk »

I was rarely around new construction, but I did explore many an abandoned building growing up. Never to vandalize, just to indulge my curiosity.
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Re: Shootings

Post by YellowKing »

Lawbeefaroni wrote:I would never even think of entering a home under construction. I mean seriously? That's trespassing, innit? Of course I'm not white.
In NC it *could* be classified as misdemeanor trespassing, unless there were signs specifically saying No Trespassing. However, I've rarely ever seen signs up around new construction. And I think it's pretty unlikely it would be enforced unless there were thefts going on or some other activity that seemed suspicious.

When we were looking at houses late last year, even the developers were very cavalier about letting you walk around new construction. As long as the home wasn't locked, there were numerous times where the agent pointed out houses here and there that did not yet have doors that we could roam through unsupervised to get a feel for the floor plan.

One could argue that since we were potential buyers, we had a greater degree of allowance than someone who happened to be jogging past, and I'd agree with that.

I think ultimately it's one of those things where yes, it's technically breaking the law, but you're unlikely to face any repercussions from it unless you're really abusing it. The home buyers have pretty much free reign to walk through the construction as long as no workers are on site, so the chance of someone catching you who also knows you're not affiliated with the home or an interested buyer allowed by an agent is pretty remote.

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Re: Shootings

Post by gbasden »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:40 am
I would never even think of entering a home under construction. I mean seriously? That's trespassing, innit? Of course I'm not white.


Doesn't mean I agree that everyone who does so deserves to be chased down and shot, of course.



But it sounds like this is a thing, trespassing to explore homes under construction. Who knew?
My house was the first under construction in my 1 mile x 1 mile subdivision. I not only went through my house, but I probably walked through 40 or 50 other houses in various stages of construction while out walking the dog. I was curious about floor plans and how the houses were being built. I never even thought twice about it, and nobody ever gave me grief.

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Re: Shootings

Post by Kraken »

gbasden wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:55 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:40 am
I would never even think of entering a home under construction. I mean seriously? That's trespassing, innit? Of course I'm not white.


Doesn't mean I agree that everyone who does so deserves to be chased down and shot, of course.



But it sounds like this is a thing, trespassing to explore homes under construction. Who knew?
My house was the first under construction in my 1 mile x 1 mile subdivision. I not only went through my house, but I probably walked through 40 or 50 other houses in various stages of construction while out walking the dog. I was curious about floor plans and how the houses were being built. I never even thought twice about it, and nobody ever gave me grief.
When I was 13 my family moved to a rapidly growing subdivision in a rapidly growing suburb. There were houses under construction everywhere, all the time, and we played in them all the time. When we got a little older, we discovered the joys of vandalism. When we got a little carried away with that and some of our antics made the news, we backed off. But not before I got to drive a bulldozer that workers left the keys in. :)

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Re: Shootings

Post by malchior »

Really interesting development. This might explain one of the gaps - why the video even exists. "Roddie" was recording the event and was well behind the event but hurrying to catch up. He might have been the back person to box in Ahmaud on the street.


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Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
Thursday's shooting at Naval Air Station Corpus Christi in Texas is terror-related, according to FBI officials.

Authorities previously said a shooter had been "neutralized," but there may be a second person of interest still at large, FBI Supervisory Senior Resident Agent Leah Greeves said during a short press briefing. The agent did not provide additional information.

The shooter is deceased, Greeves said.

One member of the naval security forces was injured in the incident, the US Navy said in an earlier statement. The sailor is in "good condition."

The base was put on lockdown after security forces responded to reports of an active shooter around 6:15 a.m. CT, according to the Navy.

The suspect attempted to rush the security gate with a vehicle, a US defense official familiar with the initial reports told CNN.

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Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

NBC News
Three people were injured and a suspect was in custody after a shooting Wednesday evening in a suburban Phoenix shopping and entertainment complex, police said.

One of the victims in the Glendale, Arizona, shooting was a 19-year-old man who suffered life-threatening injuries. Glendale police Sgt. Randy Stewart said at a news conference on Thursday that the man is currently hospitalized in critical condition.

A 16-year-old girl was hospitalized with non-life-threatening injuries and a woman, 30, did not need to be transported to the hospital, Stewart said.

When officers arrived at the northern edge of the Westgate Entertainment District shortly after 7:25 p.m. there was no longer active gunfire, Officer Tiffany Ngalula said. Stewart said officers arrived on the scene within five minutes of the 911 call.
...
"Our officers challenged that suspect and were able to safely take that person into custody," Ngalula said. The shooter, later identified as Armando Hernandez Jr., of Peoria, was unharmed. A black assault rifle was found at the scene, according to Stewart.

He faces charges 16 felony charges including aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated assault causing serious injury, discharging a firearm, criminal damage and disorderly conduct with a weapon.

Hernandez, 20, admitted to detectives that he was the shooter and said he planned to go to Westgate to harm 10 people, Stewart said.

“He said that he went to Westgate to target victims. He wanted to gain some respect and he felt that he had been bullied in his life," the sergeant said.

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Re: Shootings

Post by Holman »

Kraken wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:54 pm
gbasden wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:55 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:40 am
I would never even think of entering a home under construction. I mean seriously? That's trespassing, innit? Of course I'm not white.


Doesn't mean I agree that everyone who does so deserves to be chased down and shot, of course.



But it sounds like this is a thing, trespassing to explore homes under construction. Who knew?
My house was the first under construction in my 1 mile x 1 mile subdivision. I not only went through my house, but I probably walked through 40 or 50 other houses in various stages of construction while out walking the dog. I was curious about floor plans and how the houses were being built. I never even thought twice about it, and nobody ever gave me grief.
When I was 13 my family moved to a rapidly growing subdivision in a rapidly growing suburb. There were houses under construction everywhere, all the time, and we played in them all the time. When we got a little older, we discovered the joys of vandalism. When we got a little carried away with that and some of our antics made the news, we backed off. But not before I got to drive a bulldozer that workers left the keys in. :)
Same (though without the bulldozer keys). I'd be surprised to hear that most buildings-in-progress *aren't* visited by the curious.

I'm a respectable 51, and I strolled through an empty home renovation in my neighborhood just last year. (I needed to see that they were doing it right, dammit!)
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Re: Shootings

Post by Kraken »

Two public shootings on Thursday? America is truly open.

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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kraken wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:49 pm
Two public shootings on Thursday? America is truly open.

Hey now, there were only 5 in Chicago. Combination lockdown and cooler weather keeping numbers down.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
Despite dips in recent years in gun violence and the sanctioned stay-at-home orders, Chicago saw its deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years.

Ten people were fatally shot over the weekend and 39 were injured in shootings as of Tuesday morning, said Chicago Police Department Public Information Officer Sally Brown.

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Re: Shootings

Post by Grifman »

Paingod wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:01 am

I may be putting a snarky spin on it, but that's exactly how it looks. The GBI didn't get involved because of public outcry or bad policing - they got involved because the police wanted them to prosecute the person who leaked the tape and the others who are upset that they didn't do anything about this.
You may owe the police an apology. From what I have read, from the very first, they wanted to make an arrest and file charges but the DA refused.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Paingod »

Grifman wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:10 pm
Paingod wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:01 am

I may be putting a snarky spin on it, but that's exactly how it looks. The GBI didn't get involved because of public outcry or bad policing - they got involved because the police wanted them to prosecute the person who leaked the tape and the others who are upset that they didn't do anything about this.
You may owe the police an apology. From what I have read, from the very first, they wanted to make an arrest and file charges but the DA refused.
If that's the case, then I would apologize. The GBI site didn't cover the DA's actions - it just covered the murder and the police requests.
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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Paingod wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:36 am
Grifman wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:10 pm
Paingod wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:01 am

I may be putting a snarky spin on it, but that's exactly how it looks. The GBI didn't get involved because of public outcry or bad policing - they got involved because the police wanted them to prosecute the person who leaked the tape and the others who are upset that they didn't do anything about this.
You may owe the police an apology. From what I have read, from the very first, they wanted to make an arrest and file charges but the DA refused.
If that's the case, then I would apologize. The GBI site didn't cover the DA's actions - it just covered the murder and the police requests.

It's suspect at the very least.

“It appears Travis McMichael, Greg McMichael, and [William Bryan] were following, in ‘hot pursuit,’ a burglary suspect, with solid firsthand probable cause,” Barnhill wrote to a Glynn County police captain in a three-page letter. “Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun [that Travis McMichael was holding], under Georgia law, McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.”
...
Barnhill, 63, has worked in relative obscurity as a small-town prosecutor for 36 years. He was assigned the case only after another prosecutor recused herself because Greg McMichael used to work in her office. In the letter to the police captain, Barnhill noted Greg McMichael also worked in a district attorney’s office where his son is a prosecutor.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Paingod »

“Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun [that Travis McMichael was holding], under Georgia law, McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.”
I would counter that Arbery was defending himself in trying to grab the shotgun. He was being chased by three excited good ol' boys with guns who were intent on taking him down without any evidence he had done anything wrong. He had one driving behind him, pushing him down the road and two stopped in front of him. He very likely assumed that he was going to have to fight for his life and tried to.

At least, I think it's reasonable to believe he feared for his life because of the predicament they put him in, driving his actions to try and save himself - which they can now say lets them "defend themselves" when they had no business chasing him down in the first place.
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Re: Shootings

Post by LordMortis »

While I'd never have the courage to grab a gun pointed at me, that's my impression. He is doing nothing unlawful and other private citizens brandish a firearm at him. Whoever Barnhill is, I'd fire them, with no investigation. That a prosecutor lets private citizens hunt down "suspects" at their own discretion is inexcusable. I'd not only terminate them no questions asked, I'd launch an investigation into their supervision.

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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I think it's obvious that it's not a justification. I mean otherwise you could pull out a gun and stuff it in someone's chest until they tried to push it out of the way and then "justifiably" shoot them.
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Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

Alabama
Seven people were killed in a mass shooting at a residence in Morgan County late Thursday.

The shooting took place at a home on the 500 block of Talucah Road in Valhermoso Springs close to Somerville at a little before 11:30 p.m., according to the Morgan County Sheriff’s Office Facebook page. The scene is about 10-12 minutes from Huntsville city limits.

The victims are four men and three women.

Investigators are still working to identify at least 2 victims and officers are pursuing leads on suspects.
...
Upon arrival at the residence Thursday night, deputies saw part of the home was on fire and later discovered seven bodies inside after the fire was extinguished.

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Re: Shootings

Post by Isgrimnur »

California
Two people were killed and another four were injured in a shooting at a Tehama County Walmart distribution center on Saturday, according to hospital officials.

Red Bluff police said officers responded to the center around 3:30 p.m. after reports of an active shooter.

Police say the suspect shot at officers multiple times, and a Sergeant used their duty rifle to shoot back at the suspect.

None of the officers were hurt in the shooting. The suspect’s condition is unknown, police said.

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Re: Shootings

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Chicago:
June To Date
Shot & Killed: 72
Shot & Wounded: 417
Total Shot: 489
Total Homicides: 76

Week in Progress (6/21 – 6/27)
Shot & Killed: 22
Shot & Wounded: 119
Total Shot: 141
Total Homicides: 22
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