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Like a poke with a umbrella...

For discussion of religion and politics

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Stefan Stirzaker
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Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Stefan Stirzaker »

Ex russian spy for uk found affected by toxic substance which invilves uk authoritues ckeaning streets etc. Sounds reminiscent of the polonium assassinations.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43295134

On side note i was sure we already had such a thread but couldnt find it
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Stefan Stirzaker »

Fascinating. Boris johnson hints that russia had involvement. Wife and son and borther in law all die "mysteriously" in last few years.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43303651
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Stefan Stirzaker »

Loiks lije nerve agents are more popular for assinations now. Nerve agents confirmed as attack vector with first reaponsers also in hospital after treating victims.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Smoove_B »

The old "ricin pellet" trick - old school reference from down under. Nice. :D
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Isgrimnur »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:50 pm The old "ricin pellet" trick - old school reference from down under. Nice. :D
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Stefan Stirzaker »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:50 pm The old "ricin pellet" trick - old school reference from down under. Nice. :D
I post so little in R&P i felt i had to up my thread title game :)
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Stefan Stirzaker »

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:51 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:50 pm The old "ricin pellet" trick - old school reference from down under. Nice. :D
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Smoove_B »

It's interesting to me only because the ricin method is unlikely to be noticed. The person is likely going to die of pneumonia or heart failure and people won't think twice about it. But you dose a man with polonium or dioxin? You're sending a message to others - don't cross us or we'll come after you. It's way more layered than people might think.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Stefan Stirzaker »

Yes agree much more overt using vx or sarin but also much more risk of bystanders than ricin or polonium in teacup. Its delivery must be more than a sarin laced letter (russia to checnya rebel leader) to affect two persons at once.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Isgrimnur »

BBC
For days, Russia's main national TV channels were practically silent on the attempt to kill former spy Sergei Skripal with a nerve agent, but this changed in Wednesday's main evening bulletins.

The comment by Kirill Kleimenov - the presenter on government-controlled Channel One's flagship Vremya news programme - sounded like a veiled, mocking threat to anyone considering becoming a double agent for Britain.

"I don't wish death on anyone, but for purely educational purposes, I have a warning for anyone who dreams of such a career," he said.

"The profession of a traitor is one of the most dangerous in the world," Kleimenov said, adding that few who had chosen it had lived to a ripe old age.

Alcoholism, drug addiction, stress and depression resulting in heart attacks and even suicide were the "professional illnesses of a traitor", according to Kleimenov.

He also had a second piece of advice for such "traitors or those who simply hate their country in their free time": "Don't choose Britain as a place to live."

"Something is wrong there. Maybe it's the climate, but in recent years there have been too many strange incidents with grave outcomes there."

The remarks stood out from the rest of the evening's coverage, which followed the line often taken by Russian state media in similar circumstances - denial and wry bemusement that anyone should be pointing the finger at Russia.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Holman »

According to the AP, police in the UK now say 21 people are being medically treated in connection with this incident.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by hitbyambulance »

and what can be done? probably not much of anything. oh well, more assassinations and civilian casualities in the future, nothing to talk about here.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Enough »

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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by xwraith »

So the UK has basically delivered an ultimatum to Russia to either acknowledge the assassination or reveal how a unique ex-Soviet nerve agent escaped their controls.



The nerve agent was identified as this
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Stefan Stirzaker »

And apparently UK may invoke the NATO clauses of an attack on one is an attack on all.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Holman »

Our closest ally is accusing Russia of political murder on their soil, and POTUS has not said one word. It has been days.

Maybe he'll come out with something tomorrow? Or not? The lateness itself already signals unseriousness.

Whatever Putin has on Trump must be tremendous.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by hentzau »

Holman wrote: Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:56 pm Our closest ally is accusing Russia of political murder on their soil, and POTUS has not said one word. It has been days.

Maybe he'll come out with something tomorrow? Or not? The lateness itself already signals unseriousness.

Whatever Putin has on Trump must be tremendous.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by $iljanus »

Well as Putin would say...
"Maybe they're not even Russians, but Ukrainians, Tatars, Jews, just with Russian citizenship. Even that needs to be checked.
"Maybe they have dual citizenship. Or maybe a green card. Maybe it was the Americans who paid them for this work. How do you know? I don't know."
(Taken from his comments about those baseless accusations against Russia regarding the hacking of our election. I figured it could be his catch all excuse for any Russian wrongdoing)
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by GreenGoo »

They're not Russians, they are just people with Russian citizenship.

Hi-larious.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Holman »

Under the Soviets, the term of suspicion for Jews was "Rootless Cosmopolitans." It was a way of implying that they were not of the Motherland and of raising the specter of an international Jewish cabal.

It's not hard to see how this morphs into "Globalists."
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Smoove_B »

Russia demands a sample of the nerve agent:
“Russia is not responsible,” Sergei Lavrov said during a televised press conference that marked an escalation of the standoff with the UK over the poisoning of the former Russian agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia.

Lavrov also suggested Moscow would not comply with a Tuesday midnight deadline set by Theresa May to deliver an explanation or face retaliation. He said Moscow’s requests to see samples of the nerve agent had been turned down, which he called a violation of the chemical weapons convention outlawing the production of chemical weapons.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Moliere »

Another day, another dead Russian exile.
A Russian exile who was close friends with the late oligarch Boris Berezovsky has been found dead in his London home, according to friends.

Nikolai Glushkov was discovered by his family and friends late on Monday night, aged 68. The cause of death is not yet clear. One of his friends, the newspaper editor Damian Kudryavtsev, posted the news on his Facebook page.

In the 1990s, Glushkov worked for the state airline Aeroflot and Berezovsky’s LogoVAZ car company. In 1999, as Berezovsky fell out with Putin and fled to the UK, Glushkov was charged with money laundering and fraud. He spent five years in jail and was freed in 2004.

In recent years, Glushkov had lived in London, where he received political asylum. In 2011, he gave evidence at the court case brought by Berezovsky against his fellow oligarch Roman Abramovich, who remained on good terms with the Kremlin.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by LawBeefaroni »

$10 on ricin.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Isgrimnur »

You already have the nerve agent in the country, why switch methods?
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by GreenGoo »

We'll murder whoever we want.

Then just to salt the wound, accuse you of chemical weapons violations.

"I'd certainly consider that fact, or whoever it turns out to be".
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
The UK will expel 23 Russian diplomats from the country after concluding that the Russian state is responsible for the attempted murder of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in the English city of Salisbury.

This will be the single biggest expulsion of Russian diplomats in over 30 years, Prime Minister Theresa May said Wednesday. The 23 concerned, who May said had been identified as undeclared intelligence agents, will have only one week to leave.
...
The expulsion of diplomats will "fundamentally degrade" Russian intelligence capabilities in Britain for years, May said.
...
Addressing lawmakers Wednesday, May said it had been right to give Russia the opportunity to answer the allegations, "but their response has demonstrated complete disdain for the gravity of these events."

The Russians had provided no credible explanation, she said, leading to "no alternative conclusion" other than that the Russian state was culpable for the attempted murder of the Skripals and for threatening the lives of other British citizens.

"This represents an unlawful use of force by the Russian state against the United Kingdom," she said. "And as I set out on Monday it has taken place against the backdrop of a well-established pattern of Russian state aggression across Europe and beyond.

"It must therefore be met with a full and robust response -- beyond the actions we have already taken since the murder of Mr. Litvinenko and to counter this pattern of Russian aggression elsewhere," she added, referring to a different ex-Russian spy -- Alexander Litvinenko -- who was poisoned in London in 2006.

Britain has called for an "urgent meeting of the UN Security Council" to "update members on the investigation into the nerve agent attack in Salisbury," the UK Foreign Office tweeted.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Max Peck »

Moliere wrote: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:32 am Another day, another dead Russian exile.
A Russian exile who was close friends with the late oligarch Boris Berezovsky has been found dead in his London home, according to friends.

Nikolai Glushkov was discovered by his family and friends late on Monday night, aged 68. The cause of death is not yet clear. One of his friends, the newspaper editor Damian Kudryavtsev, posted the news on his Facebook page.

In the 1990s, Glushkov worked for the state airline Aeroflot and Berezovsky’s LogoVAZ car company. In 1999, as Berezovsky fell out with Putin and fled to the UK, Glushkov was charged with money laundering and fraud. He spent five years in jail and was freed in 2004.

In recent years, Glushkov had lived in London, where he received political asylum. In 2011, he gave evidence at the court case brought by Berezovsky against his fellow oligarch Roman Abramovich, who remained on good terms with the Kremlin.
Per the BBC
A post-mortem examination revealed Mr Glushkov, who was 68, died from "compression to the neck".
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by GreenGoo »

Naturally, when your neck is compressed, you die, thus it was natural causes.

Q.E.D.

For the record Drumpf isn't the only Putin puppet, as a UK politician (I can't remember his name, I always get them mixed up) has suggested that there is no proof it's Putin's government. It might be the Russian mafia.

Someone should explain to him that they are the same thing.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by LawBeefaroni »

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:36 pm Naturally, when your neck is compressed, you die, thus it was natural causes.

Q.E.D.

For the record Drumpf isn't the only Putin puppet, as a UK politician (I can't remember his name, I always get them mixed up) has suggested that there is no proof it's Putin's government. It might be the Russian mafia.

Someone should explain to him that they are the same thing.
Who are these people? May's point still stands. Even if it was the "Russian Mafia", the Russian government is still responsible for the chain of custody of their designer nerve agent.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by LordMortis »

+1 A nerve agent that's not supposed to exist that only existed under Russian Government controls means either a failure of Russian Gubm'ent and containment or the success of Russian Gub'ment at a sanctioned terrorist political assassination with much larger implications.

but more importantly.
proof it's Putin's
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by GreenGoo »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:05 pm Who are these people? May's point still stands. Even if it was the "Russian Mafia", the Russian government is still responsible for the chain of custody of their designer nerve agent.
Well, duh. It's not like it's a denial based in truth, which is why the whole thing is shady.

It's not Corbyn. Let me see if I can find the article.

edit: It must have been Corbyn, but I can't find a quote. The argument is that he's a left winger with a deep distrust of British government and is simply demanding more evidence before hardcore denouncement of Russia.

Shrug. I don't know enough about UK politics or more importantly politicians, but he sure sounds like a Russian apologist based on what the British government says it knows about the death.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by malchior »

Crazy stuff - a candid interview with one of the developer's of the "Novichok" family of nerve agents. From inside Russia no less.
The Bell was able to find and speak with Vladimir Uglev, one of the scientists who was involved in developing the nerve agent referred to as “Novichok”. According to British authorities, a nerve agent from the “Novichok” series was used to poison former Rusian intelligence agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia. Vladimir Uglev, formerly a scientist with Volsk branch of GOSNIIOKHT (“State Scientific-Research Institute for Organic Chemistry and Technology”), which developed and tested production of new lethal substances since 1972, spoke for the first time about his work as early as the 1990s. He left the institute in 1994 and is now retired.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Isgrimnur »

BBC
UK Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson's likening of Russia's World Cup to Hitler's 1936 Berlin Olympics has been branded "totally irresponsible" by the Russian ambassador in London.

Alexander Yakovenko said "nobody had the right" to compare Russia - which lost 25 million lives in World War Two - to Nazi Germany.

He said it was an insult to British war veterans from the Arctic convoys.

Russia says the UK had "no proof" it carried out the attack in Salisbury.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by GreenGoo »

Johnson is known for his restrained, thoughtful speaking style. This is so out of character for him.

:liar:
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Moliere »

U.S., Allies Expel More Than 100 Russian Envoys for U.K. Attack
President Donald Trump ordered 60 Russian diplomats the U.S. considers spies to leave the country and closed Russia’s consulate in Seattle in response to the nerve-agent attack on a former Russian spy in the U.K., as European allies and Canada took similar measures.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by LordMortis »

I am legitimately (pleasantly in weird way?) shocked at this.
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Moliere
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Moliere »

Maybe it's just Isgrimnur's blind squirrel striking again or a more sinister plot by Russia and Trump to fool us.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by El Guapo »

Why the Seattle consulate?
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by LordMortis »

Moliere wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:43 pm a more sinister plot by Russia and Trump to fool us.
That's what my instincts are screaming but I hate to be a conspiracy guy and the consequences of doing that and then back pedaling would look worse than ignoring everything while firing Russian critics which is what has been happening until now.
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Re: Like a poke with a umbrella...

Post by Moliere »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:46 pm Why the Seattle consulate?
Because everyone hates Seattle. :wink:
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