Trump Trade War

[El Guapo]

Trump is undermining his authority to unilaterally institute tariffs, which he can only do on "national security grounds", by admitting that he's not imposing them for national security reasons.

It's still improbable that courts will step in and strike down the tariffs as illegal, but Trump has given them the grounds they need to do so, if they are so inclined.

[Isgrimnur]

But it sure gives impacted parties standing to sue.

[El Guapo]

But it sure gives impacted parties standing to sue.

Well, it doesn't really impact standing, but I wouldn't think that it would be difficult to produce plaintiffs with standing. Any business or individual that's paying out more money as a result of the tariffs would have standing.

[LordMortis]

Except it makes that case by pointing out that Putin won't allow any reasonable alternative and viciously goes after anyone who tries. Not with mean words but with poison, prison, or assisted suicides from the tops of buildings. Elections in Russia are just a show to give an appearance of choice where there is none. Russian elections are no more free than ones in Iran.

Rare point, Rip. At least until these next elections, we can blame our "leadership" on ourselves, not on oppression. Today all we have is fear that that the mechanization of continual autocratic kleptocracy are in place. It's more a statement of shame to be overcome than it is jack booted thugs determining our federal representation and law makers and executives. It's something to hang a hope on. For now I have no reason to doubt Russia meddled and the president is a treasonous rat who worked with them but I don't think they fixed the election. We just have too many thralls in a system that has corrupted to give them too much weight and their weight proved to be way too much when put up against a high distaste for Clinton. I'm clinging to "lesson learned" will save us.

Now when top democrats start falling out windows and getting poisoned and officials start are actively monitoring polls and ballots are moving into secretive areas controlled by partisan hackery that supports this administration without question, then we can talk.

My faith remains in Mueller.

[LordMortis]

It's still improbable that courts will step in and strike down the tariffs as illegal, but Trump has given them the grounds they need to do so, if they are so inclined.

I dunno. There is going to be shit storm over production stability and capital investments to make to counteract this. I'm no fan of the mulitnational corporatacrcy but you know damned well they're pissed off.

[El Guapo]

It's still improbable that courts will step in and strike down the tariffs as illegal, but Trump has given them the grounds they need to do so, if they are so inclined.

I dunno. There is going to be shit storm over production stability and capital investments to make to counteract this. I'm no fan of the mulitnational corporatacrcy but you know damned well they're pissed off.

The Koch brothers are also going to war against these tariffs, so that would also provide Republicans in Congress with an extra incentive and cover for actually doing something on this issue. Though I'm still not holding my breath.

[Smoove_B]

Trump could shoot a trade agreement in the middle of Wall Street and not lose any voters.

Nothing matters anymore.

[LordMortis]

Though I'm still not holding my breath.

Me either but if "the People" don't turn on Trump, it's interesting to see if business does and what the results will be. Also if business doesn't, it will be interesting to see if "the People" change their minds as companies divest from capital commitments and the people it takes to manipulate that capital. Not trickling down is one matter. Not investing at all, well that's where Jobs jobs jobs provided business comes in to play. The line on the rising tides theory of economics here would be fascinating if it weren't the lives its about "disrupt".

[malchior]

It's still improbable that courts will step in and strike down the tariffs as illegal, but Trump has given them the grounds they need to do so, if they are so inclined.

I dunno. There is going to be shit storm over production stability and capital investments to make to counteract this. I'm no fan of the mulitnational corporatacrcy but you know damned well they're pissed off.

The Koch brothers are also going to war against these tariffs, so that would also provide Republicans in Congress with an extra incentive and cover for actually doing something on this issue. Though I'm still not holding my breath.

it is only fair. Koch's monster is out of control. They should do their part.

[El Guapo]

Though I'm still not holding my breath.

Me either but if "the People" don't turn on Trump, it's interesting to see if business does and what the results will be. Also if business doesn't, it will be interesting to see if "the People" change their minds as companies divest from capital commitments and the people it takes to manipulate that capital. Not trickling down is one matter. Not investing at all, well that's where Jobs jobs jobs provided business comes in to play. The line on the rising tides theory of economics here would be fascinating if it weren't the lives its about "disrupt".

As a whole I think there's maybe a 33% chance that the tariffs get gutted / reversed. Improbable, but not crazily so.

[RunningMn9]

it is only fair. Koch's monster is out of control. They should do their part.

Weren't they wholeheartedly against Trump?

[El Guapo]

it is only fair. Koch's monster is out of control. They should do their part.

Weren't they wholeheartedly against Trump?

I think in the primary, but I believe they happily supported him in the general.

[malchior]

it is only fair. Koch's monster is out of control. They should do their part.

Weren't they wholeheartedly against Trump?

I think in the primary, but I believe they happily supported him in the general.

This was my recollection as well. Soft #NeverTrump until it was inevitable. And they were pretty much aligned the whole first year of his Presidency.

[El Guapo]

it is only fair. Koch's monster is out of control. They should do their part.

Weren't they wholeheartedly against Trump?

I think in the primary, but I believe they happily supported him in the general.

This was my recollection as well. Soft #NeverTrump until it was inevitable. And they were pretty much aligned the whole first year of his Presidency.

It's worth remembering that there was a faction of the GOP (the core conservative movement) that resisted Trump in the primary because they were uncertain of his conservative bona fides - his populism and history of supporting Democrats meant that it was easy to imagine him governing as a non-ideological populist. Once it became clear that that wasn't going to happen, they happily joined the Trump train. I think the Kochs were in that group.

[malchior]

Yup only a few cons were hardcore #NeverTrump. The rest were huge hypocrites.

[LordMortis]

The Koch brothers are also going to war against these tariffs, so that would also provide Republicans in Congress with an extra incentive and cover for actually doing something on this issue. Though I'm still not holding my breath.

I had no idea but it makes sense. Especially wrgt Canada, where a lot the oil bread is buttered and with wrgt how retaliation will affect exports to Europe whom I am sure are thinking about broadening their reliance on OPEC and... Russia...

https://americansforprosperity.org/ahea ... d-tariffs/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44385053

I also had no idea that this may be as much of a deal for the "the flyover states" as I insist it should be

Editorial insists that midwest republicans are feeling vulnerable to "the blue wave"

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2018/06/opinion061018

It's interesting, I'm beginning to hear the local 2018 political adds and the Red is pushing that they see 45 as visionary and how they will support his every move without question. Again this would all be so very if the consequences weren't so very real and vast and long lasting

[GreenGoo]

Yup only a few cons were hardcore #NeverTrump. The rest were huge hypocrites.

The reason I am not venting my spleen about Cruz is because he's not president. If he was, I'd probably be just as obnoxious about him as I am about Drumpf, only I wouldn't know how lucky I was with Cruz because Drumpf would be on another timeline.

Cruz is a completely vile human being as well.

[Rip]

Yup only a few cons were hardcore #NeverTrump. The rest were huge hypocrites.

The reason I am not venting my spleen about Cruz is because he's not president. If he was, I'd probably be just as obnoxious about him as I am about Drumpf, only I wouldn't know how lucky I was with Cruz because Drumpf would be on another timeline.

Cruz is a completely vile human being as well.

Don't forget Pence.

I'm trying to make a list for you guys.

[hepcat]

That it's so easy to find vile human beings within the GOP should be a warning sign, not a badge of honor.

The GOP has been taken over by extremists, unfortunately. Hopefully they'll grow a pair and take back their party in the future though.

[gilraen]

Larry Kudlow, Trump's economic advisor, hospitalized for a heart attack.

[geezer]

Yup only a few cons were hardcore #NeverTrump. The rest were huge hypocrites.

The reason I am not venting my spleen about Cruz is because he's not president. If he was, I'd probably be just as obnoxious about him as I am about Drumpf, only I wouldn't know how lucky I was with Cruz because Drumpf would be on another timeline.

Cruz is a completely vile human being as well.

Don't forget Pence.

I'm trying to make a list for you guys.

As I said before, Cruz (and Pence) were hard right well before Trump. Again, it's not that every Republican is a wingnut ideologue, it's that the current base actually loves wingnut ideologues and keep putting them forward. So long as one major party caters to its worst element, they're going to be excoriated by those of us that are sensible.

[Victoria Raverna]

Larry Kudlow, Trump's economic advisor, hospitalized for a heart attack.

There is a special place in hell.

[GreenGoo]

Cruz is a sniveling warthog that should be abhorrent to anyone no matter where they sit on the aisle. Pence is so far down the crazy bible hole he might as well be the Palin of churchgoers. Expecting him to have wide appeal is expecting hell to freeze over. Which is another problem of his. He thinks that can and will literally happen, and soon.

This whole thing is like serving your guests a plate full of feces, and when they complain, roll your eyes in frustration that there is no pleasing some people, then ask sarcastically if the glass of urine is not to their liking either.

The problem is the excrement, not that people don't like excrement.

Wanker.

[Rip]

Palin, oh yea.

That makes four.

Someone said McConnell but I don't ever recall him getting onto or talking about an executive branch run. Pretty sure he is happy right where he is.

That said if he di I am sure he would make the list like most any other Republican who has a snowball's chance in hell to win anything.

[gbasden]

Palin, oh yea.

That makes four.

Someone said McConnell but I don't ever recall him getting onto or talking about an executive branch run. Pretty sure he is happy right where he is.

That said if he di I am sure he would make the list like most any other Republican who has a snowball's chance in hell to win anything.

How the hell can you like these people? From what you've expressed here, you can't find Pence appealing. For someone who isn't even religious you sure like theocrats. Cruz is a snivelling bootlicker, Trump is a grifter over his head and Palin is markedly subpar as seen in her disintegration over the last 8 years. What do you find appealing in any of these people?

[LordMortis]

it's that the current base actually loves wingnut ideologues and keep putting them forward. So long as one major party caters to its worst element, they're going to be excoriated by those of us that are sensible.

*ding!*

[IceBear]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... he-g7.html

[Rip]

Palin, oh yea.

That makes four.

Someone said McConnell but I don't ever recall him getting onto or talking about an executive branch run. Pretty sure he is happy right where he is.

That said if he di I am sure he would make the list like most any other Republican who has a snowball's chance in hell to win anything.

How the hell can you like these people? From what you've expressed here, you can't find Pence appealing. For someone who isn't even religious you sure like theocrats. Cruz is a snivelling bootlicker, Trump is a grifter over his head and Palin is markedly subpar as seen in her disintegration over the last 8 years. What do you find appealing in any of these people?

I am not saying I do. The point being I can't think of anyone I would accuse of being a fascist or that I would equate to Hitler etc. I have been told many times that it is a Trump thing so I am making a list that shows he is not the only one that would be treated that way. There are many politicians I dislike greatly but I wouldn't equate any of them to genocidal dictators or suggest they want to become genocidal dictators.

I would suggest anyone who does deserves to spend some time under the thumb of Hitler or Stalin because they are obviously detached from reality. The use of such tactics is a slap in the face to the millions and millions that died horrendous deaths as victims or battling to overcome such shitbags.

[hepcat]

Palin, oh yea.

That makes four.

Someone said McConnell but I don't ever recall him getting onto or talking about an executive branch run. Pretty sure he is happy right where he is.

That said if he di I am sure he would make the list like most any other Republican who has a snowball's chance in hell to win anything.

How the hell can you like these people? From what you've expressed here, you can't find Pence appealing. For someone who isn't even religious you sure like theocrats. Cruz is a snivelling bootlicker, Trump is a grifter over his head and Palin is markedly subpar as seen in her disintegration over the last 8 years. What do you find appealing in any of these people?

I am not saying I do. The point being I can't think of anyone I would accuse of being a fascist or that I would equate to Hitler etc. I have been told many times that it is a Trump thing so I am making a list that shows he is not the only one that would be treated that way. There are many politicians I dislike greatly but I wouldn't equate any of them to genocidal dictators or suggest they want to become genocidal dictators.

This is the second time I’ve had to remind you of this.

[Rip]

Palin, oh yea.

That makes four.

Someone said McConnell but I don't ever recall him getting onto or talking about an executive branch run. Pretty sure he is happy right where he is.

That said if he di I am sure he would make the list like most any other Republican who has a snowball's chance in hell to win anything.

How the hell can you like these people? From what you've expressed here, you can't find Pence appealing. For someone who isn't even religious you sure like theocrats. Cruz is a snivelling bootlicker, Trump is a grifter over his head and Palin is markedly subpar as seen in her disintegration over the last 8 years. What do you find appealing in any of these people?

I am not saying I do. The point being I can't think of anyone I would accuse of being a fascist or that I would equate to Hitler etc. I have been told many times that it is a Trump thing so I am making a list that shows he is not the only one that would be treated that way. There are many politicians I dislike greatly but I wouldn't equate any of them to genocidal dictators or suggest they want to become genocidal dictators.

This is the second time I’ve had to remind you of this.

Nice, one time I got hot under the collar and called Bloomberg a fascist. Note that was specifically about his comment that you could just decide to interpret the constitution differently.....not change it, just decide it means something different...because. Which is horseshit. If people want to change it fine, no issue with that although I would likely oppose it. Just waving a hand and deciding the meaning suddenly changed is silly, obtuse, and most importantly dangerous.

Still I was wrong to call him a fascist as he clearly falls well short of that.


Happy?

[hepcat]

Yes, you've admitted that you're a hypocrite with all the "ooh, you dems love calling everyone Hitler or a fascist, us conservatives don't do that!", so I'm happy.

[Rip]

Yes, you've admitted that you're a hypocrite with all the "ooh, you dems love calling everyone Hitler or a fascist, us conservatives don't do that!", so I'm happy.

Glad you see me calling one politician a fascist one time as being equal to calling dozens of them that on a routine basis. Good to know.

[GreenGoo]

Why are you guys talking about this stupid shit?

Every thread is about some stupid, point scoring, stupid shit "all of a sudden". This entire conversation about fascism took place and was over almost 2 years ago (or maybe it was last week. The point being it was over). What's changed that it needs to be rehashed today?

[Holman]

Fascism is a very specific term, and it's right to precise about it.

For instance, Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller are fascists; Steve Mnuchin and Nikki Haley are not. Trump's Alt-Right supporters are fascist; the average Republican isn't. Putin and Kim and various right-wing Euro politicians supported by Trump are fascists; Xi Jinping isn't.

I don't believe Trump has crossed the line into "fascist" just yet. I'll settle for calling him a "xenophobe bigot with pathological narcissism who is utterly and completely unfit for public office or public trust."

Is that better?

[hepcat]

Probably not. Because a minority used the words Hitler or Fascist for a president in the heat of the moment, Rip now believes he's justified in saying that most liberals and democrats on OO do so. It's all about moving the goalpost.

[LordMortis]

Probably not. Because a minority used the words Hitler or Fascist for a president in the heat of the moment, Rip now believes he's justified in saying that most liberals and democrats on OO do so. It's all about moving the goalpost.

As part of the minority. I have no problems with throwing these words around. Contrary to certain right wing entities who have been equivocating the left with Nazi socialism and communist Russia for years and years and years, Trump only earned the term after "both sides" even if he showed the tendencies before. Before "both sides" I was only willing to go far as supporting the idea of "Resist". After, well that changed the game.

[Remus West]

Fascism is a very specific term, and it's right to precise about it.

For instance, Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller are fascists; Steve Mnuchin and Nikki Haley are not. Trump's Alt-Right supporters are fascist; the average Republican isn't. Putin and Kim and various right-wing Euro politicians supported by Trump are fascists; Xi Jinping isn't.

I don't believe Trump has crossed the line into "fascist" just yet. I'll settle for calling him a "xenophobe bigot with pathological narcissism who is utterly and completely unfit for public office or public trust."

Is that better?

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/23/ten ... -dictator/

He is working on it though.

[Carpet_pissr]

I'll settle for calling him a "xenophobe bigot with pathological narcissism who is utterly and completely unfit for public office or public trust."

You could add a soft “with fascist tendencies” at the end so as not to offend Rip, the newly formed snowflake.

[gbasden]

I am not saying I do. The point being I can't think of anyone I would accuse of being a fascist or that I would equate to Hitler etc. I have been told many times that it is a Trump thing so I am making a list that shows he is not the only one that would be treated that way.

If you don't want to be compared to a fascist, don't cozy up with the alt-right. Besides, nobody is comparing Palin or Cruz equivalent to Hitler. And Pence is much closer to a theocrat than a strongman.

[Rip]

I am not saying I do. The point being I can't think of anyone I would accuse of being a fascist or that I would equate to Hitler etc. I have been told many times that it is a Trump thing so I am making a list that shows he is not the only one that would be treated that way.

If you don't want to be compared to a fascist, don't cozy up with the alt-right. Besides, nobody is comparing Palin or Cruz equivalent to Hitler. And Pence is much closer to a theocrat than a strongman.

That is only because they aren't in the White House. The moment they were they would become Hitler incarnate to a shocking number of people. The only thing necessary in the case of Pence is for Trump to keel over.