Trump Trade War

[malchior]

Except we aren't learning anything. I get the desire to think this will pass. That this time is the same as past bad President's but Bush was a consequence of the decline. Trump is a consequence of the further decline. I get that it is hard to accept that our best time is behind us but it really probably is.

[Kraken]

I hope hepcat's right, but I don't think so. Once lost, trust and respect are not easily regained. Precedent is being set every day, and the bar is permanently lower. The US is going rogue now and it can happen again. Removing Trump will not stop the force that we call Trumpism. Hell, I'm not even sure that we can remove Trump.

[raydude]

I hope hepcat's right, but I don't think so. Once lost, trust and respect are not easily regained. Precedent is being set every day, and the bar is permanently lower. The US is going rogue now and it can happen again. Removing Trump will not stop the force that we call Trumpism. Hell, I'm not even sure that we can remove Trump.

I think a good measure of where we’re headed lies in how much the average citizen values higher education. If the trend moves from disliking higher education to actually hating it and then to actively not seeking it then to distrusting scientists, economists, diplomats, anyone not on Fox News then we have no hope.

[Daehawk]

Whats kinda funny is I never knew or heard of anyone who liked or trusted Fox News. Yet the President does.

[Skinypupy]

I hope hepcat's right, but I don't think so. Once lost, trust and respect are not easily regained. Precedent is being set every day, and the bar is permanently lower. The US is going rogue now and it can happen again. Removing Trump will not stop the force that we call Trumpism. Hell, I'm not even sure that we can remove Trump.

I think a good measure of where we’re headed lies in how much the average citizen values higher education. If the trend moves from disliking higher education to actually hating it and then to actively not seeking it then to distrusting scientists, economists, diplomats, anyone not on Fox News then we have no hope.

Pretty sure we’re already there for a large segment of the population.

[Blackhawk]

I think (hope?) that what we're seeing is still the vocal minority. We just see more of them due to coverage and confirmation bias.

[LordMortis]

I hope hepcat's right, but I don't think so. Once lost, trust and respect are not easily regained. Precedent is being set every day, and the bar is permanently lower. The US is going rogue now and it can happen again. Removing Trump will not stop the force that we call Trumpism. Hell, I'm not even sure that we can remove Trump.

I think a good measure of where we’re headed lies in how much the average citizen values higher education. If the trend moves from disliking higher education to actually hating it and then to actively not seeking it then to distrusting scientists, economists, diplomats, anyone not on Fox News then we have no hope.

Pretty sure we’re already there for a large segment of the population.

Part of that was self induced. We've spent decades looking down skilled trades and work that involves dirt or your back while trying to put everyone on the college track and then tell them to suck it up and talk about flyover states with a sort of drowning in the rain arrogance. This culture war has been waged by both sides. Ignoring that is looking to be able to claim "winning!" and well, look where that gets us. There are reasons to demand "get in the back seat" and there are bad reasons to demand "get in the back seat". Shitting on blue collar work for forty years and then dismissing their malice is folly, even if they're collectively demonstratively delusional.

[Blackhawk]

Part of that was self induced. We've spent decades... ...and talk about flyover states with a sort of drowning in the rain arrogance. This culture war has been waged by both sides.

FWIW, people in the flyover states consider the term 'flyover states' to be part of that war. People in those areas tend to have a great deal of local pride, and a term that implies that they're irrelevant and best ignored doesn't mend many fences.

[LordMortis]

FWIW, people in the flyover states consider the term 'flyover states' to be part of that war. People in those areas tend to have a great deal of local pride, and a term that implies that they're irrelevant and best ignored doesn't mend many fences.

I chose that phrase precisely because of its baggage. I probably should have embedded in quotes to make it less charged in the context of my post.

[Kraken]

I hope hepcat's right, but I don't think so. Once lost, trust and respect are not easily regained. Precedent is being set every day, and the bar is permanently lower. The US is going rogue now and it can happen again. Removing Trump will not stop the force that we call Trumpism. Hell, I'm not even sure that we can remove Trump.

I think a good measure of where we’re headed lies in how much the average citizen values higher education. If the trend moves from disliking higher education to actually hating it and then to actively not seeking it then to distrusting scientists, economists, diplomats, anyone not on Fox News then we have no hope.

Pretty sure we’re already there for a large segment of the population.

My comments so far have been confined to America's foreign relations, since this is the trade war thread. I don't foresee recovery there anytime soon, regardless of what comes after Trump.

While we continue to decline as an empire, our domestic outlook might be brighter. I like the argument that we're living through the last gasp of a doomed culture. The Trumpelos can subvert the system enough to cling to power somewhat beyond their expiration date, but that date is fast approaching; the Obama presidency was their wake-up call, and this is a reaction to it. History and demographics are irreversibly against them. This, to me, is the most optimistic interpretation of what's happening now, and even though I'm not an optimist by nature, I want to believe it.

[Fitzy]

I hope hepcat's right, but I don't think so. Once lost, trust and respect are not easily regained. Precedent is being set every day, and the bar is permanently lower. The US is going rogue now and it can happen again. Removing Trump will not stop the force that we call Trumpism. Hell, I'm not even sure that we can remove Trump.

I think a good measure of where we’re headed lies in how much the average citizen values higher education. If the trend moves from disliking higher education to actually hating it and then to actively not seeking it then to distrusting scientists, economists, diplomats, anyone not on Fox News then we have no hope.

Pretty sure we’re already there for a large segment of the population.

My comments so far have been confined to America's foreign relations, since this is the trade war thread. I don't foresee recovery there anytime soon, regardless of what comes after Trump.

While we continue to decline as an empire, our domestic outlook might be brighter. I like the argument that we're living through the last gasp of a doomed culture. The Trumpelos can subvert the system enough to cling to power somewhat beyond their expiration date, but that date is fast approaching; the Obama presidency was their wake-up call, and this is a reaction to it. History and demographics are irreversibly against them. This, to me, is the most optimistic interpretation of what's happening now, and even though I'm not an optimist by nature, I want to believe it.

There's a psychology term Extinction burst that fits. It's used for individuals, but maybe can apply to society. Essentially it is what you say, it's a last burst of learned behavior in an attempt to get the reinforcement society used to provide. I believe/hope that's all Trump is.

[Isgrimnur]

BBC

The EU has issued a 10-page list of tariffs on US goods ranging from Harley-Davidson motorcycles to bourbon.
...
The commissioner said that despite the EU's "rebalancing" action, the two sides were not in a trade war.
...
On 18 May, the EU told the WTO it planned to impose counter measures affecting goods worth almost €3bn. If approved by the 28 member states, the sanctions will come into effect in mid-June.

[wonderpug]

How is the high income right reacting to the tariffs? As much as they love not-Obama not-Hilllary eff-you-Left, I would think they like their businesses making money even more.

[pr0ner]

[Isgrimnur]

WITH THE LEMONS!

[Rumpy]

As someone who lives in a copper/nickel mining town , and with our economy directly tied to natural resources, this shit is going to directly affect us. Not to mention, we were a major export/supplier of metals during WWII. 95% of all Allied demands for nickel is no joke. The tariffs will be directly felt here.

https://republicofmining.com/2016/09/18 ... tan-sudol/

[$iljanus]

Ha, just another example of the lib elites using historical "facts" to attack our President. Better to be ignorant and a True American than brainwashed by the left wing education system. MAGA!

(and sadly such is the state of the country...)

[YellowKing]

There's a psychology term Extinction burst that fits. It's used for individuals, but maybe can apply to society. Essentially it is what you say, it's a last burst of learned behavior in an attempt to get the reinforcement society used to provide. I believe/hope that's all Trump is.

I've been clinging to this since he was elected. The country has always been known to vacillate between the two party extremes, and corrections are not uncommon. In Trump's case, it was a massive over-correction to 8 years of Obama, fueled by a variety of factors that made it worse than it should have been.

As bad as things seem, there's really no evidence that the country is getting less progressive. Even if the "Blue Wave" is smaller than hoped in 2018, I still have high confidence that people will be done with Trump's brand of idiocy in 2020.

[Holman]

I still can't get over this idiocy.

Did he just Google "War with Canada!!" or what?

[Moliere]

[Isgrimnur]

WaPo

French President Emmanuel Macron on Thursday threatened to join with other world leaders to issue a rare rebuke of the United States at a global summit here this weekend, drawing immediate and sharp replies from President Trump.

Macron said Trump could be excluded from joining with other leaders in a joint declaration of unity at the end of a global summit here, a very unusual move that was meant to isolate Trump’s recent burst of trade threats aimed at numerous U.S. allies.

“The American President may not mind being isolated, but neither do we mind signing a 6 country agreement if need be,” Macron wrote on Twitter. “Because these 6 countries represent values, they represent an economic market which has the weight of history behind it and which is now a true international force.”

Trump appeared unmoved, accusing Macron and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of hurting the United States with unfair trade practices.

[Smoove_B]

From the AP:

BREAKING: Trump ends summit with stern warning against foreign barriers to trade: 'If they retaliate, they're making a mistake.'

[Kraken]

I had wondered why cranberries were on the EU's hit list; MA is not an agricultural state, but cranberries are our biggest crop, and these tariffs are supposed to target red states and Trump allies. Then I read today that WI is actually the biggest cranberry producer, and that's Paul Ryan's state. After lobbying by MA officials, the allies softened their cran-attack to cover only juice, not prepared or preserved berries, removing 2/3 of the penalty that MA will pay. So we'll still take some collateral damage, but not enough to cripple our industry.

source

[$iljanus]

From the AP:

BREAKING: Trump ends summit with stern warning against foreign barriers to trade: 'If they retaliate, they're making a mistake.'

"ONE TWO THREE FOUR, I DECLARE A TRADE WAR!"

[malchior]

From the AP:

BREAKING: Trump ends summit with stern warning against foreign barriers to trade: 'If they retaliate, they're making a mistake.'

"ONE TWO THREE FOUR, I DECLARE A TRADE WAR!"

The worst part about all this is there is no downside for Trump. 1) Allies back down then he looks strong. 2) Allies don't back down and his moronic base will rally to him because the US is being attacked.

[raydude]

From the AP:

BREAKING: Trump ends summit with stern warning against foreign barriers to trade: 'If they retaliate, they're making a mistake.'

"ONE TWO THREE FOUR, I DECLARE A TRADE WAR!"

The worst part about all this is there is no downside for Trump. 1) Allies back down then he looks strong. 2) Allies don't back down and his moronic base will rally to him because the US is being attacked.

2) The base won't rally when they lose their jobs. Or rather, they will, and then die off as their safety net is taken out from under them in the name of balancing the budget.

[Holman]

Based on Justin’s false statements at his news conference, and the fact that Canada is charging massive Tariffs to our U.S. farmers, workers and companies, I have instructed our U.S. Reps not to endorse the Communique as we look at Tariffs on automobiles flooding the U.S. Market!

Lying POTUS accuses allied leader of lying. On Twitter.

Also: are Canadian automobiles flooding the U.S. market?

[GreenGoo]

No but American ones flooded our market when the dollar reach parity for a bit.

[LordMortis]

Based on Justin’s false statements at his news conference, and the fact that Canada is charging massive Tariffs to our U.S. farmers, workers and companies, I have instructed our U.S. Reps not to endorse the Communique as we look at Tariffs on automobiles flooding the U.S. Market!

Lying POTUS accuses allied leader of lying. On Twitter.

Also: are Canadian automobiles flooding the U.S. market?

I can only assume he's talking about the Detroit 3 with assemblies in Canada. Which make no sense because he's also declared trade war on Mercedes and their assembly plant in South Carolina. But dammit

[hepcat]

I honestly never thought I’d live to see Canada become our enemy.

[Max Peck]

On the bright side, at least Trump has done away with the pretext that he's imposing steel and aluminum tariffs based on national defense requirements.

[hepcat]

Melania wasn’t there to change his diaper, so he was cranky.

[Moliere]

[Kraken]

On the bright side, at least Trump has done away with the pretext that he's imposing steel and aluminum tariffs based on national defense requirements.

...whereupon trade policy properly reverts to Congress. I wonder if this might finally open a schism between Trump and the GOP. Nahh, not in an election year.

[hepcat]

They sold their souls. You can’t come back from that.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Perfect:

[Daehawk]

Damn the jobs, full speed ahead!

[GreenGoo]

I honestly never thought I’d live to see Canada become our enemy.

We're not, although it seems like drumpf would like to make the US ours.

[GreenGoo]

Again, people said the same thing under Bush. I’m not trying to compare the two because Bush was an adult. But I don’t think we’re seeing the death of our democracy.

Personally, I think we’re just seeing the country learning the hard way that putting our faith in celebrities instead of actual people with a brain is just stupid.

I'm not screaming my head off because I think democracy is dead. I'm screaming my head off because some people are actively trying to kill it, right out here in the open, in full view of the country, and everyone is acting like "it's just like when Bush was president. It'll be fine".

It might be fine. Hopefully you're absolutely right.

I'm not advocating panicking, I'm advocating taking the threat seriously, because it sure seems real to me, and we have thousands of years of history showing that the threat wins more than it loses. In fact the threat rarely loses. In that light, confidence that things will "work themselves out" seem...misplaced.

[stessier]

I can only assume he's talking about the Detroit 3 with assemblies in Canada. Which make no sense because he's also declared trade war on Mercedes and their assembly plant in South Carolina.

BMW, not Mercedes.