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Trump Trade War

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GreenGoo
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:51 am

It's an easy win. A familiar voice around these parts assured us that there is way more for the US to tariff than for China to reciprocate on.

That may well be true, actually. Wars, real (I'm looking at Iraq) or trade (as started by Rumplethinskin) aren't won in a day or a week. It may turn out that China bends a knee. I'm sure both economies will be in great shape by the time that happens, though.

And I'm sure soybean farmers are happy to take it on the chin today so that other sectors can get a bigger piece of the pie, in a few years. Hell, maybe GE can get back on the DOW by then.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:45 am

But the $12B handout was supposed to solve everything! Does this mean that foreign trade is...complicated? Who knew?
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:15 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:45 am
But the $12B handout was supposed to solve everything! Does this mean that foreign trade is...complicated? Who knew?
Chris Gibbs didn't get the bribe, apparently.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Blackhawk » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:03 am

That's OK. Soybeans are only ~45% of Indiana's rural economy now that all the local coal mines are gone. I'm sure we'll be fine.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Montag » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:50 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:03 am
That's OK. Soybeans are only ~45% of Indiana's rural economy now that all the local coal mines are gone. I'm sure we'll be fine.
Surprising me, Indiana agriculture is not even in the top five industries. Sadly, manufacturing will have a greater vulnerability to tarrifs.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Blackhawk » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:05 pm

Montag wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:50 pm
Blackhawk wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:03 am
That's OK. Soybeans are only ~45% of Indiana's rural economy now that all the local coal mines are gone. I'm sure we'll be fine.
Surprising me, Indiana agriculture is not even in the top five industries. Sadly, manufacturing will have a greater vulnerability to tarrifs.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... vMa9EoTZOz
Note that I specified 'rural.' Most of Indiana's state-wide economy is based out of either Indy or the far northern part of the state where it bumps up against Chicago. Indiana will be affected by things that impact manufacturing. Rural Indiana will be affected by things that affect coal and agriculture.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:17 pm

WaPo
President Trump on Sunday leveraged the office of the president of the United States against a private American company for seeking to insulate itself from his trade war.

“Great!” he wrote of purported plans by customers of Harley-Davidson to boycott the venerable motorcycle company over its plan to move production of motorcycles sold in Europe to factories outside the United States. The firm, founded in Milwaukee in 1903, estimated that it would lose $100 million annually from steel tariffs imposed by the president in March.
...
His early-morning tweet followed a meeting Saturday with “Bikers for Trump” at his golf course in Bedminster, N.J. About 180 members of the group chanted “Four more years!” and “USA!” as they entered the ornate ballroom, according to the Associated Press. The president thanked them and praised their rides, calling them “the most beautiful bikes anyone’s ever seen.”

As recently as last year, Trump extolled the company, saying in a meeting with executives in the Roosevelt Room that he considered Harley-Davidson a “true American icon, one of the greats.”

His view changed when the firm’s leaders announced this summer that they would use overseas facilities for production of bikes headed for sale in Europe. The company said it would not change its long-standing policy of not selling motorcycles in the United States that are made overseas.

Trump gambled that even those fond of the brand would stick by his side, threatening in June, “If they move, watch, it will be the beginning of the end.”
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:31 pm

SNAFTA
The Trump administration said Monday said it had reached a new, 16-year trade deal with Mexico, setting in motion a rapid chain of events that could redraw the world’s largest trade agreement.

But a number of key factors remain unresolved in Trump’s effort to replace the North American Free Trade Agreement -- the biggest among them whether Canada will sign on the deal. Trump and Mexican leaders also failed to resolve whether the U.S. tariffs on metals imports will remain in place.
...
Top White House officials appeared split on whether they would proceed at all if Canada didn’t sign on to the deal with Mexico. Trump left open the possibility of cutting Canada out of the final deal, which he said would replace NAFTA. But U.S. Trade Representative Robert E. Lighthizer told reporters later that every effort would be made to include Canada as part of the deal, even if it took weeks or longer for them to sign on to changes. And Mexican leaders also said Canada must be included in the deal.

There were also signs of division about what the agreement means for NAFTA. Trump said that the new deal with Mexico would lead to the termination of NAFTA and that he would rename it the United States — Mexico trade agreement. Lighthizer cautioned that no decision had been made about this.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:51 pm

SNAFTA
:clap:

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:52 pm

:D
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:11 pm

Negotiate with Mexico, come to a deal with Mexico, then wonder if Canada will sign the same deal Mexico did?

Yeah, that's a good question. Why bring to the table someone you're negotiating with? What's his plan? It's good enough for Mexico, and you're the Mexico of the North, so it's good enough for you?

Should be interesting.

:pop:

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Rip » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:10 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:11 pm
Negotiate with Mexico, come to a deal with Mexico, then wonder if Canada will sign the same deal Mexico did?

Yeah, that's a good question. Why bring to the table someone you're negotiating with? What's his plan? It's good enough for Mexico, and you're the Mexico of the North, so it's good enough for you?

Should be interesting.

:pop:
Take it or be left with one not as good.

Clock is ticking......

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by hepcat » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:29 pm

It’s only ticking because Trump started the timer. Wake me up when he actually has a plan for anything beyond “Get appearance on Fox and Friends.”.
Last edited by hepcat on Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:31 pm

Rip wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:10 pm

Take it or be left with one not as good.

Clock is ticking......
Lol, we've been over this. You haven't a clue how to negotiate and neither does Drumpf. The rest of the world is laughing at you, Rip.

I kind of hope we give him exclusive hotel rights to some god forsakened place up north and he sells out the American lumber industry. It's kind of unfair negotiating with someone so inept, but he brought it on himself. It's ok though because he'll just offer a 1/2 assed bribe to the industry with tax payer dollars and mark it in the win column.

As I said before, :pop:

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Max Peck » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:37 pm

Pity the poor journalist trying to figure out what is actually happening.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:02 am

I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out exactly what this new deal between the US and Mexico entailed, laughed, and decided my time was better spent elsewhere. This is the same deal that the stock market is just raving about.

It's hilarious. What's more, none of this has been ratified by congress.

It's like watching children trying to simulate adult behavior.

I am quite aware that Drumpf has little to no influence on the actual negotiations, but it's fun to pretend he does, because he's so terrible at it.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Pyperkub » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:44 am

Max Peck wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:37 pm
Pity the poor journalist trying to figure out what is actually happening.

After reading the linked article above, I'm not ready to criticize this, as I would with most thing Trump.

This is good - it serves the dual purpose of making American manufacturing less expensive relative to Mexico, as well as raising wages in Mexico, which will serve as a better deterrent to illegal immigration than a wall:
The two sides agreed to a provision that would require a significant portion of each vehicle to be made by workers making at least $16 per hour -- a significant increase for Mexico.
This is also good:
White House officials said the agreement, centered largely on manufacturing, would help American workers by making it harder for countries like China to ship cheap products through Mexico and then into the United States. Harmonizing labor and environmental rules would also protect U.S. jobs and salaries, the officials said, by making it less attractive for U.S. companies to move operations to Mexico
But it's definitely incomplete (though less incomplete apparently than the NK nuclear "deal"), and without a full agreement to evaluate, definitely a work in progress.

I'm not sold on the Trump Administration's ability to seal the deal (or any deal that doesn't screw the US in some fashion) however.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Daehawk » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:26 am

I dont trust him to do anything right. All he is is a blow hard mouthpiece.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Carpet_pissr » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:10 am

Daehawk wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:26 am
I dont trust him to do anything right. All he is is a blow hard mouthpiece.
Yep, and digging further into the details, the "deal" with Mexico is a big nothingburger. VERY minor changes which will affect a tiny percentage of cars and car parts, so of course they agreed to it. It changes the Rules of Origin from around 63% to 75%, which sounds big, until you realize what percent was already within the 75% category (almost all). So basically Trump will claim victory or claim he renegotiated NAFTA, Mexico and Canada "caved", and very few will realize that almost nothing material actually changed from the previous NAFTA.

Further proving that all the orange douchebag cares about is looking good. Since he has no problem with outright lying, it's very easy to half ass anything he does, and claim he did it "the best".

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by IceBear » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:46 pm

Oh yay! If this is true, Trump wants to screw over Canada, probably because his ego got hurt with the G7 thing
The U.S. president reportedly said his position was "going to be so insulting they're [Canada] not going to be able to make a deal." CBC has not independently verified the comments.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nafta- ... -1.4806240

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:57 pm

Shrug.

It's almost certainly because Trudeau is younger, better looking and everyone likes him (except for russian trolls in the comment sections of news articles. They hate him. Some even claim he's the worst thing to happen to Canada evAr! Which is funny in it's absurdity.)

What's hilarious about that statement is that it's probably true! You've got a president that hates everything (especially his supporters) because no one asked him to the prom, even after his mom said he was pretty!

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Vorret » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:23 pm

I fully support us walking away from NAFTA and come back to the table once there's a sane president in the white house. It might sucks for the next 2 years but I'd rather have some problems than deal with that fucking moron.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Max Peck » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:25 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:57 pm
It's almost certainly because Trudeau is younger, better looking and everyone likes him (except for russian trolls in the comment sections of news articles. They hate him. Some even claim he's the worst thing to happen to Canada evAr! Which is funny in it's absurdity.)
You can't really blame Trump all that much, though. When your girl looks at another guy the way you want her to look at you, it hurts.
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It's entirely possible that some of the comments are by Russian trolls, but a lot of them are probably just Albertans.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by IceBear » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:27 pm

lol

Edited to clarify what I was laughing at
It's entirely possible that some of the comments are by Russian trolls, but a lot of them are probably just Albertans.
Last edited by IceBear on Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:30 pm

Vorret wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:23 pm
I fully support us walking away from NAFTA and come back to the table once there's a sane president in the white house. It might sucks for the next 2 years but I'd rather have some problems than deal with that fucking moron.
From my perspective, it's more than the next two years. CTPAT, for instance, has been decades in the making. A company of moderate says could have a CTPAT designated person, doing nothing but making sure the company complies with CTPAT regulation it would be money excellently spent. No NAFTA, no CTPAT. Security goes down. Time at the border goes up. Costs in money and time go nuts. Supply chains get broken. etc... Your killing an organism of trade that has made things so much better over the last two to three decades. It doesn't just get turned off and turned on again. That fucko can't see that and that US labor thinks greasing North American trade is bad for their paychecks... It makes my head hurt.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:49 pm

Vorret wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:23 pm
I fully support us walking away from NAFTA and come back to the table once there's a sane president in the white house. It might sucks for the next 2 years but I'd rather have some problems than deal with that fucking moron.
I read a headline that implied that without a NAFTA agreement things looked bleak for the future of US/Canada relations. Which is laughable. No matter how shitty things get now, there is no question that things will be immediately improved when Drumpf is gone. Worst case scenario is that Canada suffers because of a poor relationship with it's number one trade partner, but learns a valuable lesson about diversifying its trade, and the US suffers because of a poor relationship with it's number two trade partner, but comes back to the table with a new attitude about mutually beneficial deals. The US can go elsewhere as well, but they seem busy burning all the bridges they can find, and then some. A friendly face is going to be awfully reassuring when the world turns hostile in return for America's hostility.

Still though, it's gonna suck in the mean time. Another reason I want drumpf to die. None of the economic problems are necessary. Drumpf is artificially creating conflict because he literally can't think of any other way to operate. It's stupid and unnecessary.

And as a reminder, it could well be 6 more years, not 2. There is no sign that the people who put Drumpf in the white house are unhappy with the result.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:49 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:25 pm
It's entirely possible that some of the comments are by Russian trolls, but a lot of them are probably just Albertans.
Agreed. Don't put our dirty laundry on display in front of the guests!

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:55 pm

To be clear, Canada is just waiting for the Us's meds to kick in so we can get back to making money for everyone. At the same time some of our business is going elsewhere, because drumpf and co have made it clear they don't want it. We gotta eat.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Jeff V » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:03 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:49 pm
And as a reminder, it could well be 6 more years, not 2. There is no sign that the people who put Drumpf in the white house are unhappy with the result.
There is every sign though that those who didn't care enough to put an end to him the first time will do so at the next opportunity. Unless the donkeys put up an utter ass against him, that is.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Carpet_pissr » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:12 pm

You guys are implying that Canada would be hurt by getting left out of NAFTA (of course they would), but maybe what the Orange Dildo (TM) doesn't realize (or care about) is that Canada is by far our largest export market. Mexico and Canada combined represent 34% (annual % for 2017) of our export markets. That's a huge chunk of our goods. The pain would not be one sided, is what I'm getting at.

The NAFTA is old, yes, but it just needs to be updated for modern times, not spat upon as "the worst trade deal ever" as the Head Shitbag is so fond of saying.

Still, most of this is his bluff and bluster and sandbagging, trying to get a good deal, OR more likely just to look tough, as the revised details of the recent agreement with Mexico include very very small changes (or changes that seem big, but in reality will have little impact). Probably the biggest change is that the wages for Mexican workers (that are involved with NAFTA goods) are going to go up.

I'm surprised we haven't seen a tweet to the effect of "Better watch out, greedy, low-ratings Canada! You're next! Just got back from Mexico. Multiple cans of Whoop-Ass were opened. Result: of course I won the NAFTA, because I'm the best at NAFTA, not a lot of people knew that, it's true."

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:34 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:12 pm
I'm surprised we haven't seen a tweet to the effect of "Better watch out, greedy, low-ratings Canada! You're next! Just got back from Mexico. Multiple cans of Whoop-Ass were opened. Result: of course I won the NAFTA, because I'm the best at NAFTA, not a lot of people knew that, it's true."
There actually have been comments to similar effect, if not identical. Rip doesn't get his bullshit about us panicking about being left out in the cold (hey, we're used to it, we're Canada!) from his own shriveled brain goo.

I have no idea who those comments are directed at however. Most Canadians are smart enough to know that international trade treaties take time, effort and skill, and the guys we put in charge will do their best as skilled and educated professionals.

So who exactly all the bravado, threats (implied and overt) and fear mongering are for? I have no idea. It's like being threatened by a child. With developmental issues. Sure he's holding the keys to the kingdom and sure his words are backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS(!), but he's still just a child with issues. Someone to be pitied, not feared.

Of course you have your own professionals (those not directly assigned by the big baby anyway) and they will work hard for a good deal for the US. Of course they will. That's expected. Good deals are deals where both sides are satisfied, not when one side holds the other side down and rapes them with a bottle.

That's what Drumpf doesn't understand about deal making. And it's what makes Rip and his ilk more pathetic than usual.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Carpet_pissr » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:10 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:34 pm
I have no idea who those comments are directed at however.
His base. His own ears. Anyone who will hear them and hopefully think "wow, he is a great, strong negotiator!"

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:26 am

Now I'm bitter because Drumpf's nonsense forced me to learn more than I'd like about dairy production, the difference between our markets and dairy trade.

See you and your negotiators next week. Somehow the deadline came and went and mysteriously, there is a new deadline and it's 3 months from now.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Max Peck » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:33 am

Delaying NAFTA deal is actually a win-win-win
Delaying a revamped North American Free Trade Agreement is actually a win-win-win. Canada and the United States will keep talking despite missing a Friday deadline to conclude trade talks. Negotiators will need to move quickly to avoid the risk of fresh demands from the next Mexican government. But getting a deal that all sides can sell is more important.

The mood was tense on Friday as U.S. President Donald Trump acknowledged having told Bloomberg he wasn’t going to make any concessions to his northern neighbor. The United States had already shut the Canadians out of talks for weeks while it negotiated with the Mexican government. On Monday, Trump hailed a U.S.-Mexico deal on certain NAFTA provisions and threatened auto tariffs on Canada if it didn’t capitulate by the end of the week.

Ottawa and Washington also appeared to remain far apart on certain issues. Trump has slammed Canadian tariffs of up to 270 percent on dairy imports. Canada objects to the U.S. demand to eliminate dispute panels for anti-dumping complaints.

That’s why it’s encouraging that both sides will continue negotiations next week. The Friday deadline was set because of the 90-day notice period Congress needs before a deal can be concluded. Meeting it would enable Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto to sign the pact before he leaves office at the end of November.

But the parties have some wiggle room because the deal text doesn’t have to be released until the end of September. Trump gave notice to Congress on Friday that a trade pact with Mexico would be concluded by the end of November, and Canada could join “if it is willing.” Yet Trump’s threat to do a deal with Mexico alone rings hollow because Congress has signaled it would reject a bilateral deal.

If they miss the text release deadline, NAFTA could then be subject to new demands by Andrés Manuel López Obrador, the Mexican president-elect who takes office on Dec. 1. AMLO, as he is known, has said he favors renewing the pact, but he’s an economic nationalist who could raise fresh issues. For all three countries, maintaining a trilateral deal is key to supply chains, production logistics and agricultural sales. It’s worth the wait.
As things stand, Trump literally seems to be the only one that wants a bilateral US-Mexico deal. It's a shame that it's not actually his call to make (not that I'll hold my breath waiting for Congress to push back on his encroachment into their prerogative).
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Jolor » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:43 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:10 pm
GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:34 pm
I have no idea who those comments are directed at however.
His base. His own ears. Anyone who will hear them and hopefully think "wow, he is a great, strong negotiator!"
+ Andrew Scheer as the leader of the Canadian Conservative Party who is using Trump's instability to place the blame on JT for failing to get a good deal for Canada. In turn, the Canadian Conservative base is also being messaged.
I'm sure a bonus for Crazy Donny was that Freyland had to cancel her EU trip.

Don't forget that Canadians see Fox, Sun News Media, and other info sources (including Russian bots) which stress "right" values; we're hardly less susceptible to propaganda or alternative truth than anyone else.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Freyland » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:11 am

Jolor wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:43 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:10 pm
GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:34 pm
I have no idea who those comments are directed at however.
His base. His own ears. Anyone who will hear them and hopefully think "wow, he is a great, strong negotiator!"
+ Andrew Scheer as the leader of the Canadian Conservative Party who is using Trump's instability to place the blame on JT for failing to get a good deal for Canada. In turn, the Canadian Conservative base is also being messaged.
I'm sure a bonus for Crazy Donny was that Freyland had to cancel her EU trip.

Don't forget that Canadians see Fox, Sun News Media, and other info sources (including Russian bots) which stress "right" values; we're hardly less susceptible to propaganda or alternative truth than anyone else.
(See: Ford, Doug. Premier, Ontario)
Freyland--> Guy
Freyland--> No life, Europe out of question
Freyland--> Amused he fits into someone's autocorrect.
I don't remember where I read this, Cort, maybe it was in the last patch notes, but they said the UAZ really handles the best when... the wheels are actually touching the ground.
--RedF1ve

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gbasden
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Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Trump Trade War

Post by gbasden » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:18 am

Freyland wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:11 am


Freyland--> Guy
Freyland--> No life, Europe out of question
Freyland--> Amused he fits into someone's autocorrect.
:clap:

:lol:

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Jolor
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Jolor » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:00 pm

I shall never give up my fight for Freydom!!!

:doh:
So sayeth the wise Alaundo.

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hepcat
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by hepcat » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:07 am

Image
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

Freyland
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Freyland » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:14 am

My 15 minutes of Fame, for this....
I don't remember where I read this, Cort, maybe it was in the last patch notes, but they said the UAZ really handles the best when... the wheels are actually touching the ground.
--RedF1ve

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