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Trump Trade War

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LordMortis
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:51 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:18 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:52 pm
WaPo
“You know, we’re the ones taking the brunt of it in all these negotiations, so they need to be kind of helping us out right now.”
...
Typical rural liberal elitists. Always seeking a government handout.

Thing is, they'll get more subsidies to keep those votes.
That's not fair. They want the free market but they can't have a free market until Trump fixes what the big government socialists broke with their theft through taxation.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:32 pm

CNBC
U.S. President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping agreed on Saturday to proceed with negotiations after a series of escalations to their nations’ trade war threatened to disrupt the global economy.

On the sidelines of the Group of 20 summit in Osaka, Japan, the two leaders held a highly anticipated meeting, which Chinese media outlets reported ultimately took about 80 minutes.

Both sides confirmed in separate comments that they did not plan to levy any new tariffs against each other’s products at the present time. For one, Chinese state-run press agency Xinhua described the meeting result as the presidents agreeing “to restart trade consultations between their countries on the basis of equality and mutual respect.”

Speaking after the bilateral, Trump said it had gone as well as it could have, and that negotiations with China would continue. “We are right back on track,” the president said.

On the subject of Huawei, the Chinese telecommunications behemoth that Washington has described as a security risk to the U.S. and allies, Trump suggested he will be reversing his government’s decision to ban American companies from selling products to the tech giant. Still, Trump said the issue of Huawei will be resolved only at the conclusion of the negotiations.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Zarathud » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:37 pm

Only in Trumpland is it news that we’re negotiating. This is not normal.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:50 pm

NBC News
Chinese demand for American goods has tanked — evidence that economic damage from the trade war isn’t just hurting China, but the United States, as well.

On a year-over-year basis, Chinese imports of American goods dropped by 31 percent in June. Economists say this indicates that the Chinese economy, which was already decelerating, is continuing to slow its rate of growth.
...
The sharp drop in U.S. imports also is reflective of how tit-for-tat tariffs are prompting China to shift its purchases of goods to other countries at the expense of export-dependent sectors of the American economy.
...
In addition to the contraction of imports, Chinese exports to the U.S. fell by nearly 8 percent, while China’s trade surplus grew by 3 percent to roughly $39 billion.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:06 pm

CNBC
President Donald Trump ripped into China in a series of tweets Tuesday just as the two sides are set to resume stalled negotiations toward a much-anticipated trade agreement.

The president claimed that China is not buying more U.S. agricultural products as it promised to do and may be slow-walking the talks as it awaits the outcome of the 2020 presidential election.
...
The criticism comes as an entourage led by Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer are in Shanghai to meet with their Chinese counterparts. While U.S. officials have tamped down expectations for a major deal this week, there is hope that at least some progress can be made in the tit-for-tat tariff battle that began about a year and a half ago.
...
Despite the president’s allegations, China insists it has bought U.S. agricultural products.

In a report Sunday, the state-run media agency Xinhua said millions of tons of U.S. soybeans have been shipped to China since July 19. The media agency added that companies are looking for soybeans, cotton, pork and sorghum. Soybeans have been a particularly vital issue between the two sides, and U.S. exports did increase by $727 million in May and are up 7% year to date over 2018.

That comes, though, as the trade gap between the two nations widens.

In May, U.S. exports to China actually rose to $9.1 billion, but imports jumped to $39.3 billion, bringing this year’s deficit to $137.1 billion. That total actually is $15 billion less than through the same period in 2018, which saw a $419.5 billion U.S.-China trade deficit.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Alefroth » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:37 pm

If you don't re-elect me, China wins.
“My team is negotiating with them now, but they always change the deal in the end to their benefit,” Trump tweeted. “They should probably wait out our Election to see if we get one of the Democrat stiffs like Sleepy Joe.”

“The problem with them waiting, however, is that if & when I win, the deal that they get will be much tougher than what we are negotiating now . . . or no deal at all,” he tweeted.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LawBeefaroni » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:54 pm

"Deal, or no deal!"

-The shittiest president.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:14 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:37 pm
“My team is negotiating with them now, but they always change the deal in the end to their benefit,”
Said every person working with the US, trying to maintain any sense of stability whatsoever against GrondTarrifs, since 2016.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Alefroth » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:08 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:14 pm
Alefroth wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:37 pm
“My team is negotiating with them now, but they always change the deal in the end to their benefit,”
Said every person working with the US, trying to maintain any sense of stability whatsoever against GrondTarrifs, since 2016.
I'm sure it's even right out of Art of the Deal.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:01 pm

Yahoo
“This trade thing is what’s brought on by the president and it’s really frustrating because he took away all of our markets,” Bob Nuylen, a farmer from North Dakota who grows spring wheat and sunflowers, told Yahoo Finance. “We live in an area where we’re kind of in the middle of nowhere. It costs us a lot of money — over $1 a bushel to get our grain to markets.”
...
“All these countries went to different countries to get their grain,” Nuylen said. “How are we going to get the relations back with them to buy our grain again and be our customers?”
...
“Our prices are probably as low as I’ve seen them in a long time,” he told Yahoo Finance. “We were losing just about $70 an acre just by putting our crop in [the ground] this spring.”
...
“Payments are a welcome help for the bottom line of Missouri farmers,” Blake Hurst, president of the Missouri Farm Bureau, told Yahoo Finance in an email statement. “Although the trade payments vary widely from county to county, they’ll keep more than a few farmers in business for another year. ...

“Having said all that,” the statement added, “farmers are profoundly wary of the trade war, embarrassed that ad hoc government subsidies are all that stands between many of us and financial ruin, and ready for the return of more normal times.”

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Alefroth » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:50 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:01 pm
Yahoo
“Having said all that,” the statement added, “farmers are profoundly wary of the trade war, embarrassed that ad hoc government subsidies are all that stands between many of us and financial ruin, and ready for the return of more normal times.”
If only there was some action they could take to enable that.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Z-Corn » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:56 pm

It's going to be interesting to see what happens this cycle in rural West Michigan. The township that most voted for Trump, at 84% of the population, is also big time soybean country. Farmers are already having a terrible season with the spring being too wet to plant many fields.

Are they going to have anybody to sell their crops to? Will this influence their vote?


https://expo.mlive.com/news/g66l-2019/0 ... -2016.html

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Remus West » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:28 pm

Z-Corn wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:56 pm
It's going to be interesting to see what happens this cycle in rural West Michigan. The township that most voted for Trump, at 84% of the population, is also big time soybean country. Farmers are already having a terrible season with the spring being too wet to plant many fields.

Are they going to have anybody to sell their crops to? Will this influence their vote?


https://expo.mlive.com/news/g66l-2019/0 ... -2016.html
I saw an article today where some farmers were questioning how'd they'd get their customers back if the trade war ends since those people/companies are buying from other sellers now.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:33 pm

Remus West wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:28 pm

I saw an article today where some farmers were questioning how'd they'd get their customers back if the trade war ends since those people/companies are buying from other sellers now.
That would Izzy's link. :D

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Jeff V » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:20 pm

When it comes to the red necks, "Guns...fuck yeah!" trumps all other forms of self-interest. I've read accounts of farmers concerned they might be totally fucked, but still say they are 100% behind the orange ape.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Remus West » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:34 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:20 pm
When it comes to the red necks, "Guns...fuck yeah!" trumps all other forms of self-interest. I've read accounts of farmers concerned they might be totally fucked, but still say they are 100% behind the orange ape.
Some yes, but there is hope he is losing some as well. Given his lack of ability to expand his base any losses become magnified.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by $iljanus » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:38 pm

I guess it's not socialism when farmers are getting Federal subsidies.
tl;dr

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Jeff V » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:49 pm

$iljanus wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:38 pm
I guess it's not socialism when farmers are getting Federal subsidies.
Overall, the red states are the biggest recipient of government handouts. They just don't like handouts that go to blue states.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Kraken » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:06 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:49 pm
$iljanus wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:38 pm
I guess it's not socialism when farmers are getting Federal subsidies.
Overall, the red states are the biggest recipient of government handouts. They just don't like handouts that go to blue states.
This is true, and it angers me when Trumpsters claim the exact opposite, as I've seen some do on the facebook. They are convinced that blue states have the weakest economies and we're all on welfare. Reality, of course, disagrees.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:19 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:49 pm
$iljanus wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:38 pm
I guess it's not socialism when farmers are getting Federal subsidies.
Overall, the red states are the biggest recipient of government handouts. They just don't like handouts that go to blue states.
They don't like handouts that go to other people (red or blue) and don't want handouts unless they can justify them with their personal sensibilities. Then they aren't handouts. My social security or medicare or disability isn't a handout because I worked once. Your social security or medicare or disability is a handout because because I'm working now. Public education is indoctrinating socialism. My kids in a subsidized private religious school is religious freedom from your oppression. Your guns are for violent crimes against America. My guns are to protect myself from government over reach and on and on and on. Budgets are everything when your spending. Protecting the economy is first priority when I'm spending.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Skinypupy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:04 am

Jeff V wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:49 pm
$iljanus wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:38 pm
I guess it's not socialism when farmers are getting Federal subsidies.
Overall, the red states are the biggest recipient of government handouts. They just don't like handouts that go to blue states brown people.
FTFY
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by pr0ner » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:53 pm

Trump announced more tariffs on Chinese goods this afternoon.

The Dow promptly gave up 300 points of gains, and has dropped 500 points since the announcement.

Thanks, Trump.
Hodor.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Kraken » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:24 pm

He still believes that the Chinese are paying the tariffs. The truth will never get through his reality warping field.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:48 pm

pr0ner wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:53 pm
Trump announced more tariffs on Chinese goods this afternoon.

The Dow promptly gave up 300 points of gains, and has dropped 500 points since the announcement.

Thanks, Trump.
Woould be interesting to see who traded on that information in the few minutes before he made the announcement.

The reverse trade should be good in a few days when it's announced that there is no plan in place or way to enforce the new tarriffs.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Octavious » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:48 pm

I'm sure all the Trump fans won't mind paying an extra 75-100 bucks for an iPhone. I'm sure big companies like Apple will eat the cost for a bit, but the smaller companies will not have that option. :grund:
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Kraken » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:43 pm

Trump wants China to sign a deal before the election. China wants to talk to a rational administration. If he stays true to his pattern, Trump will proclaim an imaginary victory and back down at the last minute. Or perhaps, buoyed by his victory over the Fed, he might follow through to raise the stakes. Meanwhile, real companies struggle to adapt their supply chains, not knowing which way it will go.

If the Fed cuts rates again in September or December, watch for another trade threat.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by pr0ner » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:49 am

Japan's Nikkei fell 2% at today's open, and DJIA futures are down 100 points this morning.
Hodor.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:01 am

Sinking tide bailing out my August puts. Would prefer stable markets though.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:01 pm

CNBC
Surrounded by trade officials and beef industry representatives at the White House, Trump said signed a deal to “lower trade barriers in Europe and expand market access for American farmers and ranchers.” Over the course of the deal, annual duty-free U.S. beef exports to the EU are expected to nearly triple to $420 million from $150 million, according to the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative.
...
Through the beef agreement, Trump in part aims to de-escalate trade tensions with the European Union. Earlier this year, the administration delayed a decision on slapping duties on European cars and auto parts.

He put a momentary scare into European officials at the White House on Friday when he brought up car tariffs unprompted.

“We’re working on a deal where the European Union will agree to pay a 25% tariff on all Mercedes-Benzes, BMWs coming into our nation, so we appreciate that,” the president said.

“I’m only kidding,” he continued, sparking laughter in the room. “They started to get a little bit worried. Thank you. Congratulations. Best beef in the world, thank you very much!” 

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:56 pm

Business Insider
US farming associations have hit out at President Donald Trump's tariffs saying that "Trade policy is not a game" and that "farmers and ranchers could be dealing with the fallout for decades to come."

Roger Johnson, president of the National Farmers Union, the nation's second-largest general farm organization, told Bloomberg that Trump's latest tariffs would hurt American farmers — a large part of his own voter base.
...
"It may take President Trump just a few minutes to write 280 characters, but family farmers and ranchers could be dealing with the fallout for decades to come," Johnson said.

Bloomberg reported that US soybeans futures were on track for their worst week in three months and hogs were set for the biggest slump in a year — those are two of the biggest US agricultural exports to China.

Markets Insider earlier this week reported that China was now buddying up with Brazil to replace the lack of soybean shipments from the US. Soybean exports had dropped considerably in from the USA while Brazilian exports had increased substantially since Trump took office.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:08 pm

Louisville Courier Journal
Protesting Kentucky coal miners sweated through a fourth day on top of a railroad track as they continued blocking a coal train from leaving a Harlan County mine.

Recently laid off, the miners are demanding weeks of back pay from their bankrupt employer as the company assets were put up for auction Thursday.

Images of frustrated coal miners playing cornhole on the railroad tracks helped draw national attention to the July 1 bankruptcy of mining company Blackjewel, which came without warning and sparked financial turmoil when paychecks bounced.
...
But Blackjewel’s collapse left more than a quarter of Harlan County’s miners jobless. Some say they have nearly given up on President Donald Trump’s long-promised coal revival.

"I think Trump needs to show his face” in Harlan County, said miner Scott Mefford, who was among the dozens of miners on the train tracks near a sign that read, "No Pay, We Stay."
Would you say that the protests are ... justified?

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Jeff V » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:29 pm

So what's their complaint? That they've been played for gullible stooges? That's not news.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Alefroth » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:02 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:08 pm
Louisville Courier Journal

Images of frustrated coal miners playing cornhole on the railroad tracks helped draw national attention
:shock: I bet they did.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:40 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:02 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:08 pm
Louisville Courier Journal

Images of frustrated coal miners playing cornhole on the railroad tracks helped draw national attention
:shock: I bet they did.
:shock:
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:26 pm

I find it hard to believe Trump could somehow be associated with people full of back payments not being made while uber wealthy declare bankruptcy and walk away from their obligations.

It;s not like they played games with the books

https://trib.com/business/energy/revela ... 3b937.html

https://www.sightline.org/2019/07/09/bl ... ombshells/
The bankruptcy seemed to take many in the coal world by surprise, but the signs of financial distress have been evident to anyone who cared to look. The company’s CEO, Jeff Hoops, has admitted that he specialized in taking over financially struggling mines. The previous owner of its Wyoming mines actually paid Blackjewel more than $20 million to take them over, provided that the new owners take responsibility for cleanup. And the company had a dismal safety and environmental record, racking up dozens of violations of the Clean Water Act and mining laws, and nearly $1 million in fines and penalties from mine safety regulators.
...
Bombshell #4: Hoops regularly transferred money between Blackjewel and other accounts he controlled. Hoops’s bankruptcy testimony describes $79 million in transfers between Blackjewel and other bank accounts he controls, including personal accounts. All told, Hoops says that he transferred $45 million into the company, and $34 million out of it—meaning that, by Hoops’s accounting, Blackjewel still owed him $11 million. Many of the transfers seemed suspicious: he would sometimes transfer money into and out of Blackjewel on the same day, presumably to prevent specific checks from bouncing. (A lawyer for a key lender described Hoops’s actions as “check kiting.”)

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by malchior » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:58 am

China devalues Yuan. They are claiming it isn't in response to tariffs but the markets don't believe it and fear Trump's counter stroke. Dow down 500 in early trading. Winning!
China has allowed its yuan to break through 7 against the dollar for the first time since 2008, but it insisted the move is not “competitive devaluation.”

“As a responsible big country, China will abide by the spirit of the G20 leaders’ summit on the exchange rate issue, adhere to the market-determined exchange rate system, not engage in competitive devaluation, and not use the exchange rate for competitive purposes and not use the exchange rate as a tool to deal with external disturbances such as trade disputes,” The People’s Bank of China governor Yi Gang said in a statement on Monday.

...

It became obvious to many analysts that by allowing yuan’s free fall, China has weaponized its currency in the intensified trade war with the U.S.

“The fact that they have now stopped defending 7.00 against the dollar suggests that they have all but abandoned hopes for a trade deal with the U.S.,“Julian Evans-Pritchard, senior China economist at Capital Economics, said in a note. “The PBOC has effectively weaponized the exchange rate, even if it is not proactively weakening the currency with direct FX intervention.”

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by pr0ner » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:04 pm

Oh, Donald.





Hodor.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by malchior » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:11 pm

Chinese State media is now reporting they won't be buying any US Agricultural products. Dow down 750! Winning!

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:17 pm

:pop:

My retirement investments total ~$55k. I have 16% of that sitting in cash waiting for the fall.

At least the 11%/year pension can't devalue on the way down.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Octavious » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:33 pm

Fox doesn’t even have this on the front page. Go figure.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

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