When will Trump try to fire Mueller?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:37 am

The firing of McCabe, last Sunday's Mueller tweets, and the nature of Trump seem to make this virtually inevitable, whether he tries to do it by firing Rosenstein on down, or whether he fires Sessions and puts Pruitt in his place. When's your best guess as to when it will happen? I honestly think it's within the realm of possibility that he does it by the end of this week (probably late Friday), but I think it's probably better than even to happen within the next month or two.

edit: I guess I should say when will he try *again*, since he tried to get him fired already but was convinced to stand down by McGahn.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:53 am

I picked the politically slow summer months. Then again, I think that post-it on his desk saying “DO NOT FIRE MULLER” is having less influence on him with each firing...

Hiccup · Post by **Hiccup** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:04 pm

Tough choices, and I'm guessing November.

I'd group them by events rather than timeline because the obvious answer is "When he feels needs to in order to shift attention from something else"

1) Before the Stormy Daniels interview airs Sunday
2) Before the Stormy Daniels hearing/trial
3) Before the elections in hopes of "energizing the base"

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:06 pm

Not that Trump seems like a great planner, but it seems like if he's going to do it, he'd be better off doing it sooner rather than later. Both because later gives Mueller more time to do his thing, but also because the political impact of it is likely to be enormous no matter how Trump slices it, and devastating for Republicans. Waiting until July or August (or worse yet, October) seems like a recipe for losing 100+ House seats. If he does it in the next couple weeks, there's more time for it to run its course before the midterms.

I guess I should say that if Trump waits and the Republicans hold the House (and the Senate) the odds of a firing in November / December go *way* up.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:11 pm

I think he either does it in the next two months, or after the election.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:13 pm

I'm an optimist and believe he will let him finish. My second choice is over Easter weekend (March 30).

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:26 pm

I'll put my money on "Between 2am and 4am" on some date yet to be determined. That's usually when he goes on the twitter rants, right?

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:29 pm

I think, "Whenever he damn well pleases" needs to be added to the choices.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:00 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:13 pm I'm an optimist and believe he will let him finish. My second choice is over Easter weekend (March 30).

Trump is going to wait until the perfect time and then, right before he can pull the trigger, Mueller will announce that he's finished.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:16 pm

I voted for before end of March, because you used the word TRY. I think he has already been trying and continues to try to find a way to do so where it doesn't result in disaster for him (and probably not seeing that as a remote possibility).

Will he fire him? No, I don't think so.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:25 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:16 pm I voted for before end of March, because you used the word TRY. I think he has already been trying and continues to try to find a way to do so where it doesn't result in disaster for him (and probably not seeing that as a remote possibility).

Will he fire him? No, I don't think so.

To be clear, I consider "try" to be more than "undermine Mueller" or "haze Sessions". I mean to take concrete steps towards firing Mueller, such as firing Sessions, demanding that Rosenstein / Sessions / etc. fire Mueller, telling someone else to fire Mueller, etc. I used "try" to encompass a situation where Trump (say) fires Sessions and tries to put Pruitt in his place as AG to fire Mueller, only a court rules that he can't appoint Pruitt without confirmation (e.g., that the Vacancies Act doesn't authorize him to install Pruitt), or he orders Rosenstein to fire Mueller and Congress passes a law to protect Mueller from firing, etc.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:34 pm

Active attempts Vs passive undermining.

It's certain that he keeps undermining and using the feedback from his tweets as a litmus test to see how it would go over. Eventually he will just ignore the feedback and attempt it anyway.

Either when he or his finances are truly threatened or when he just decides his reality supercedes the real one.

Since I'm expecting some serious, concrete revelations in the next two months, I voted for the end of May.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:58 pm

This Friday.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:10 pm

The one prediction I do feel confident in making is if Trump has managed to not fire Mueller by the time of the midterm elections, and Republicans manage to hold onto congress, Trump will fire him soon afterwards.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:27 pm

Defiant wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:10 pm The one prediction I do feel confident in making is if Trump has managed to not fire Mueller by the time of the midterm elections, and Republicans manage to hold onto congress, Trump will fire him soon afterwards.

Definitely. He'll be "King" anyway so why not.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:40 pm

Given the way his Hairness fired McCabe and his treatment of, well, practically everybody who even looked askance at him, I'm predicting that not only will Trump fire Mueller, he will also have his dog poisoned, his house burned down, and will sign an executive order to have Mueller's birthday removed from the calendar.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:46 pm

I believe he'll try firing Rosenstein/Mueller as soon as his lawyers break the news of the next round of campaign-figure indictments, especially if they are aimed at Jared or Don Jr.

I don't think that will happen before Mueller interviews Trump or until Trump clearly refuses to interview, and I think that's still a couple of months off. We're really on Mueller's timetable, not Trump's.

I'm going to guess June rather than April/May.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:54 pm

Yeah, but soon enough Trump will be distracted with lots of local golfing, so it's hard to say if he'll be able to maintain focus. So many variables...

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:29 pm

Was going to vote August but that doesn't seem to be an option.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:01 am

Exodor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:29 pm Was going to vote August but that doesn't seem to be an option.

That's because August is "no firing special counsels" month. Everyone knows that.

Toe · Post by **Toe** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:12 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:01 am
Exodor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:29 pm Was going to vote August but that doesn't seem to be an option.

That's because August is "no firing special counsels" month. Everyone knows that.

Not sure which to go with, but August is National Golf Month and also contains International Clown Week.

Trent Steel · Post by **Trent Steel** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:25 am

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:13 pm I'm an optimist and believe he will let him finish.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:24 pm

John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer handling the Mueller probe, just resigned.

As more moderating forces leave and are replaced by conspiratorial figures like DiGenova who joined on a few days ago, it looks increasingly likely that Trump may move on Mueller soon. He's surrounding himself with those who support rather than restrain his instincts and impulses.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:25 pm

Captain Caveman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:24 pm John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer handling the Mueller probe, just resigned. As more moderating forces leave and are replaced by conspiratorial figures like DiGenova who joined on a few days ago, it looks increasingly likely that Trump may move on Mueller soon. He's surrounding himself with those who support rather than restrain his instincts and impulses,

Maybe, but Dowd is also the one who called for the inquiry to end, and by reports has been trying to get Trump to not interview with Mueller. He's not one of the doves on the team. So...who knows.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:26 pm

Wow, things might actually get more insane.

Calling for the inquiry to end while recommending Drumpf not fire Meuller and especially not interview with him is what a competent lawyer would do.

So...

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:27 pm

I mean, as Trump works through his team, the quality of his team members is going to steadily decrease (if you can imagine that). Which indicates that his next actions are extra likely to be rash, ill-considered, and poorly done, but could go in any number of different directions. Like, I wouldn't be shocked if Trump was like "fuck it, I'm going to talk to Mueller no restrictions and put this thing to bed!"

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:30 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:25 pm
Captain Caveman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:24 pm John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer handling the Mueller probe, just resigned. As more moderating forces leave and are replaced by conspiratorial figures like DiGenova who joined on a few days ago, it looks increasingly likely that Trump may move on Mueller soon. He's surrounding himself with those who support rather than restrain his instincts and impulses,
Maybe, but Dowd is also the one who called for the inquiry to end, and by reports has been trying to get Trump to not interview with Mueller. He's not one of the doves on the team. So...who knows.

But the reports make clear that Dowd is leaving because he feels Trump is increasingly ignoring his advice. I can't imagine his advice has been to fire Mueller and Trump was ignoring it. Quite the opposite, I fear. Last week's public statement by Dowd about Rosenstein shutting down the probe was probably him acquiescing to the growing demands of his client.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 pm

Isn't his new guy, Joseph diGenova, famous for going on Fox and claiming that the Mueller probe is an FBI conspiracy to overthrow the president?

If he's the last lawyer standing, I think this thing will be going FuhrerBunker.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:08 pm

Captain Caveman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:30 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:25 pm
Captain Caveman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:24 pm John Dowd, Trump's lead lawyer handling the Mueller probe, just resigned. As more moderating forces leave and are replaced by conspiratorial figures like DiGenova who joined on a few days ago, it looks increasingly likely that Trump may move on Mueller soon. He's surrounding himself with those who support rather than restrain his instincts and impulses,
Maybe, but Dowd is also the one who called for the inquiry to end, and by reports has been trying to get Trump to not interview with Mueller. He's not one of the doves on the team. So...who knows.
But the reports make clear that Dowd is leaving because he feels Trump is increasingly ignoring his advice. I can't imagine his advice has been to fire Mueller and Trump was ignoring it. Quite the opposite, I fear. Last week's public statement by Dowd about Rosenstein shutting down the probe was probably him acquiescing to the growing demands of his client.

Whose report? You posted no links or quotes.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... gns-report

President Trump’s lead personal attorney handling the investigation into Russian meddling abruptly resigned on Thursday.

John Dowd, a prominent white-collar attorney who joined Trump’s legal team last summer, will step down after breaking with the president on key elements surrounding the probe, including whether Trump should sit for an interview with Robert Mueller.

“I love the President and I wish him well,” Dowd said in a written statement to The Hill.

Dowd’s exit comes as the president seeks to shake up his legal team amid frustrations within the White House over Mueller’s probe, which has cast a cloud over the administration for more than a year now.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:15 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 pm Isn't his new guy, Joseph diGenova, famous for going on Fox and claiming that the Mueller probe is an FBI conspiracy to overthrow the president?

If he's the last lawyer standing, I think this thing will be going FuhrerBunker.

He's not the last lawyer standing, though, at least not yet. Ty Cobb has been the strongest advocate (per reports) for cooperating with Mueller. If he (and/or McGahn as white house counsel) go, that would be a more significant tripwire.

Though Trump could certainly abruptly decide to fire Mueller at any point regardless.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:25 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:15 pm
Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 pm Isn't his new guy, Joseph diGenova, famous for going on Fox and claiming that the Mueller probe is an FBI conspiracy to overthrow the president?

If he's the last lawyer standing, I think this thing will be going FuhrerBunker.
He's not the last lawyer standing, though, at least not yet. Ty Cobb has been the strongest advocate (per reports) for cooperating with Mueller. If he (and/or McGahn as white house counsel) go, that would be a more significant tripwire.

Though Trump could certainly abruptly decide to fire Mueller at any point regardless.

Oh, I know Cobb and McGahn are still there. I was just applying the rule that Everything Trump Touches Dies.

Eventually even Ty Cobb's mustache will have had enough.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:32 pm

I think this is the more relevant story on Dowd's leaving, at least as it pertains to this thread:

“Now I’m F---ing Doing It My Way”: Jubilant and Self-Liberated, the President Prepares for War with Mueller
With John Dowd out, John Kelly and Ty Cobb marginalized, Joseph diGenova on board, and Marc Kasowitz possibly returning, the next battle comes into focus.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:11 pm

None of that article sounded good for anything but more chaos. Yay.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:25 pm

If the pattern holds (Fox-screened flattery followed by reciprocal Trump tweets; repeat), Trump's legal team will include Alan Dershowitz before summer.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:27 pm

McConnell says he won't bring any special counsel protection bill to the floor.

aka "go ahead and fire Mueller anytime you want Donald."

I'm thinking end of May at the latest at this point.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:30 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:25 pm If the pattern holds (Fox-screened flattery followed by reciprocal Trump tweets; repeat), Trump's legal team will include Alan Dershowitz before summer.

I saw in an interview where AD said he is not interested.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:47 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:27 pm McConnell says he won't bring any special counsel protection bill to the floor.

aka "go ahead and fire Mueller anytime you want Donald."

I'm thinking end of May at the latest at this point.

Well, we all know it's not necessary because all McConnell and Sanders and Ryan all said that Trump said he wasn't going to and they've always been reliable spokespeople for Trump's future actions.

Roman · Post by **Roman** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:03 am

Could be because Mitch is worried about this: https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... -campaigns

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:17 am

House Republicans Lay the Groundwork for Firing Rosenstein.

If it wouldn't clog the R&P unduly, I'd say that I have to set up a separate poll on firing Rosenstein.

I have to say that I don't entirely understand why Rosenstein wouldn't ultimately produce what the House GOP wants, at least once he gets a subpoena. Not that I doubt that there are important confidentiality considerations, but honestly those seem less important than Rosenstein staying in office for as long as he can.