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Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am
by Skinypupy
Wait, so the woman who adopted two kids from Russia and one from Guatemala is now openly speaking out against legal immigration?

Good luck explaining that one to the kids when they're older.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:46 am
by LawBeefaroni
More to file under "it's ok when we do it..."
First lady Melania Trump's Slovenian-born parents were sworn-in as U.S. citizens Thursday, benefiting from a path to citizenship known as family-based immigration that the president and others have derisively dubbed "chain migration."
...
The AP writes that arriving at the ceremony, the Knavses "slipped in and out of a side entrance at a Manhattan federal building flanked by Department of Homeland Security police. Some workers inside didn't know what was going on."

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:22 pm
by malchior
I like the additional implication that the process may have been greased for them. Must be nice.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:25 pm
by El Guapo
Skinypupy wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am Wait, so the woman who adopted two kids from Russia and one from Guatemala is now openly speaking out against legal immigration?

Good luck explaining that one to the kids when they're older.
I'm not in a position to tell white nationalists their business, but shouldn't Ingraham adopting a Guatemalan kid be disqualifying in terms of her standing among white nationalists on this? Isn't she part of the problem, as she is defining it?

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:35 pm
by Chaz
She can always fall back on the old civilizing the savages angle.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:58 am
by GungHo
LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:46 am More to file under "it's ok when we do it..."
First lady Melania Trump's Slovenian-born parents were sworn-in as U.S. citizens Thursday, benefiting from a path to citizenship known as family-based immigration that the president and others have derisively dubbed "chain migration."
...
The AP writes that arriving at the ceremony, the Knavses "slipped in and out of a side entrance at a Manhattan federal building flanked by Department of Homeland Security police. Some workers inside didn't know what was going on."
I think it can also go under the 'just when I thought they couldn't dumbfound me again...they did...again' category.

Not as neat and tidy as your's tho...I'll have to work on that.
I am kind of sad to say I'm not shocked by this whole dynamic, I'm becoming numb to this administration. But this is pretty disgusting.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:27 am
by GungHo
Skinypupy wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am Wait, so the woman who adopted two kids from Russia and one from Guatemala is now openly speaking out against legal immigration?

Good luck explaining that one to the kids when they're older.
I'm gonna say something a little radical here....
First however, I'd like to say I don't agree with her tone or her implications (and they're pretty heavy handed implications...she's not going for subtle with pictures of brown skinned people climbing walls). 🙄

Giving Ingraham the benefit of the doubt, which I know she absolutely does not deserve, but that our country does, I'm going to choose to believe that she was talking about people who move to America but don't become 'Americans'. That aspect of her diatribe I can sympathize with. I don't give a rat's behind about the demographics of it all but I do want people who move to America to adopt our cultures and norms. Just like I would do if I moved to France or Indonesia.
And don't get me wrong, I would totally still celebrate the 4th of July no matter what country I lived in, same for turkey day and Christmas and I'd still watch football. But..I'd dang sure learn French as fast as I could, and I'd get behind the French men's national soccer team and make a sure point of learning their cultural highpoints asap. I could still be an American living in France while also being a Frenchman; maybe a poor imitation but at least giving an honest effort.

If that's her point, yeah ok I can be on board with that. No friggin clue how you ensure that happens...I'm pretty sure you can't. It just needs to happen organically and in that case its up to those of us already living here to help new immigrants become more American. If we aren't willing to help...then I think you get what we have now. And that is America has gone from the melting pot where we assimilate all of these other cultures and norms and the whole thing gets better because of it, to now we're a pot of stew with lots of very distinct blobs of stuff scattered all throughout and some of it works well together and some of it doesn't.

But back to Ingraham...Yeah I know none of this was her point. She was just dogwhistling and she got me trying to justify her words. Sad!

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:47 am
by Fitzy
GungHo wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:27 am
Skinypupy wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am Wait, so the woman who adopted two kids from Russia and one from Guatemala is now openly speaking out against legal immigration?

Good luck explaining that one to the kids when they're older.
I'm gonna say something a little radical here....
First however, I'd like to say I don't agree with her tone or her implications (and they're pretty heavy handed implications...she's not going for subtle with pictures of brown skinned people climbing walls). 🙄

Giving Ingraham the benefit of the doubt, which I know she absolutely does not deserve, but that our country does, I'm going to choose to believe that she was talking about people who move to America but don't become 'Americans'. That aspect of her diatribe I can sympathize with. I don't give a rat's behind about the demographics of it all but I do want people who move to America to adopt our cultures and norms. Just like I would do if I moved to France or Indonesia.
I’d like to address the “become Americans”. It’s largely a myth. It always has been a myth. People didn’t come over, snap their fingers and become Americans. They have always (most of the time), come over in groups, stayed within those groups, had kids, those kids learned English growing up, spent time divided between two cultures and had kids who became fully immersed in the “American” culture while even than retaining aspects of their grandparent’s culture. It takes a generation or two to grow into a culture, especially one that is very different from the orignial.

The idea that we should expect people to come here and somehow “be American” is unrealistic. People will come here and do the best they can.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:14 am
by Holman
Nothing she says is about what actual immigrants do or should do differently.

It is 100% about boosting her white racist audience's racism.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:43 am
by GungHo
Fitzy wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:47 am
GungHo wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:27 am
Skinypupy wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am Wait, so the woman who adopted two kids from Russia and one from Guatemala is now openly speaking out against legal immigration?

Good luck explaining that one to the kids when they're older.
I'm gonna say something a little radical here....
First however, I'd like to say I don't agree with her tone or her implications (and they're pretty heavy handed implications...she's not going for subtle with pictures of brown skinned people climbing walls). 🙄

Giving Ingraham the benefit of the doubt, which I know she absolutely does not deserve, but that our country does, I'm going to choose to believe that she was talking about people who move to America but don't become 'Americans'. That aspect of her diatribe I can sympathize with. I don't give a rat's behind about the demographics of it all but I do want people who move to America to adopt our cultures and norms. Just like I would do if I moved to France or Indonesia.
I’d like to address the “become Americans”. It’s largely a myth. It always has been a myth. People didn’t come over, snap their fingers and become Americans. They have always (most of the time), come over in groups, stayed within those groups, had kids, those kids learned English growing up, spent time divided between two cultures and had kids who became fully immersed in the “American” culture while even than retaining aspects of their grandparent’s culture. It takes a generation or two to grow into a culture, especially one that is very different from the orignial.

The idea that we should expect people to come here and somehow “be American” is unrealistic. People will come here and do the best they can.

I disagree that it necessarily takes generations(my uneducated guess at that is you're probably usually right)...I could talk about several anecdotal experiences I've had in my life that say otherwise, but that's all they are. Nothing that would help prove the point one way or the other. I could also point to a bunch of personal experiences with people who never 'became American' even after 40 years. But then what is 'being American' anyway?

And really Holman's point is the larger one: that Ingraham was just yelling thru the megaphone to galvanize the racists and keep them distracted from the important things happening in our world.
Also that I'm foolish for even trying to create a conversation around her talking points because I knew damn well exactly what she meant when she said them. Just not possible to discuss it in any really meaningful way when the basis is mired in racism, dogwhistling and distraction.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:13 am
by Victoria Raverna
GungHo wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:27 amJust like I would do if I moved to France or Indonesia.
If you move to Indonesia, you're not going to be Indonesians no matter how hard you try to adopt the culture. :)

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:58 am
by Grifman
Most studies have shown that in the US most immigrants are assimilated within 2 to 3 generations. It works pretty well in the US - we generally don’t have the problems like France with large ghettos of unassimilated migrants. Most people that come here want to become Americans with all that entails.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:15 am
by LawBeefaroni
Grifman wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:58 am Most studies have shown that in the US most immigrants are assimilated within 2 to 3 generations. It works pretty well in the US - we generally don’t have the problems like France with large ghettos of unassimilated migrants. Most people that come here want to become Americans with all that entails.
Well, that's part of the problem though, isn't it? Some people can't bear assimilated brown or black or whatever.


"By 2049 there will be no more natural blondes!!!!!!!!!"

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:29 pm
by Max Peck
“There Won’t Even Be a Paper Trail”: Has Stephen Miller Become a Shadow Master at the State Department?
For the past year, Miller has been quietly gutting the U.S. refugee program, slashing the number of people allowed into the country to the lowest level in decades. “His name hasn’t been on anything,” says a former U.S. official who worked on refugee issues. “He is working behind the scenes, he has planted all of his people in all of these positions, he is on the phone with them all of the time, and he is creating a side operation that will circumvent the normal, transparent policy process.” And he is succeeding.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:28 pm
by dbt1949
Edited, wrong thread. Oops!

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:15 pm
by Chaz
Max Peck wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:29 pm “There Won’t Even Be a Paper Trail”: Has Stephen Miller Become a Shadow Master at the State Department?
For the past year, Miller has been quietly gutting the U.S. refugee program, slashing the number of people allowed into the country to the lowest level in decades. “His name hasn’t been on anything,” says a former U.S. official who worked on refugee issues. “He is working behind the scenes, he has planted all of his people in all of these positions, he is on the phone with them all of the time, and he is creating a side operation that will circumvent the normal, transparent policy process.” And he is succeeding.
It's this shit that really worries me. It's the quiet things going on behind the scenes that are having a large impact on people's lives, and being done by appointees that can't be voted out of office until the next Presidential election, and we try and kick their boss out. The only thing that's able to slow this down before then is taking Congress from the GOP, and maybe get some oversight happening.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:19 am
by Isgrimnur
Politico: Stephen Miller Is an Immigration Hypocrite. I Know Because I’m His Uncle.
Let me tell you a story about Stephen Miller and chain migration.

It begins at the turn of the 20th century in a dirt-floor shack in the village of Antopol, a shtetl of subsistence farmers in what is now Belarus. Beset by violent anti-Jewish pogroms and forced childhood conscription in the Czar’s army, the patriarch of the shack, Wolf-Leib Glosser, fled a village where his forebears had lived for centuries and took his chances in America.

He set foot on Ellis Island on January 7, 1903, with $8 to his name. Though fluent in Polish, Russian, and Yiddish he understood no English. An elder son, Nathan, soon followed. By street corner peddling and sweat-shop toil Wolf-Leib and Nathan sent enough money home to pay off debts and buy the immediate family’s passage to America in 1906. That group included young Sam Glosser, who with his family settled in the western Pennsylvania city of Johnstown, a booming coal and steel town that was a magnet for other hard-working immigrants. The Glosser family quickly progressed from selling goods from a horse and wagon to owning a haberdashery in Johnstown run by Nathan and Wolf-Leib to a chain of supermarkets and discount department stores run by my grandfather, Sam, and the next generation of Glossers, including my dad, Izzy. It was big enough to be listed on the AMEX stock exchange and employed thousands of people over time. In the span of some 80 years and five decades, this family emerged from poverty in a hostile country to become a prosperous, educated clan of merchants, scholars, professionals, and, most important, American citizens.

What does this classically American tale have to do with Stephen Miller? Well, Izzy Glosser is his maternal grandfather, and Stephen’s mother, Miriam, is my sister.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:33 pm
by Isgrimnur
Stripes
At least three dozen immigrant recruits who were booted from the U.S. Army after enlisting with a promised pathway to citizenship are being brought back to serve, according to court records filed Monday.

Since Aug. 17, the U.S. Army has reinstated 32 reservists, and revoked discharge orders of another six enlistees who had sued. Another 149 discharges have been suspended and are under review, said Army Assistant Deputy for Recruiting and Retention Linden St. Clair, in the filing.
...
They had enlisted under the Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest program, known as (MAVNI), to increase the number of soldiers with critical language or medical skills.

The reinstatements come weeks after the Army reversed course, suspending the discharges at least temporarily.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:49 pm
by Holman

Admission numbers for Iraqis who helped the US government and are trying to come to the US as refugees (FY)
2016: ~5,100
2017: 3,000+
This year: 48
These aren't just "Iraqi refugees." These are battlefield translators and others who've risked their lives to help our war.

Reuters: Pentagon raises alarm about sharp drop in Iraqi refugees coming to U.S.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:16 pm
by Isgrimnur
Next stop on the tour: Iowa
Authorities have announced first-degree murder charges against Christian Rivera, 24, in the death of Iowa college student Mollie Tibbets.

Rivera is an undocumented immigrant and led detectives to her body in rural Poweshiek County, according to Iowa investigators.

The charge was filed more than month after Tibbetts went out for a jog and disappeared — and days after investigators searching for the missing Iowa college student said they were focusing their efforts on five locations.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:22 pm
by Max Peck
Holman wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:49 pm These aren't just "Iraqi refugees." These are battlefield translators and others who've risked their lives to help our war.

Reuters: Pentagon raises alarm about sharp drop in Iraqi refugees coming to U.S.
Well, we always knew that Trump has no qualms about stiffing contractors after they complete their work. It's called being smart!

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:55 am
by Moliere

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:18 am
by em2nought
LawBeefaroni wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:15 am "By 2049 there will be no more natural blondes!!!!!!!!!"
Ethnic cleansing :naughty:

Looks like blondes are going to become extinct much sooner in South Africa. :wink: :wink:

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:37 am
by GreenGoo
I'm not hearing a lot of complaining about the actual farmers being impacted in South Africa.

Hint:. They're not blonde.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:09 am
by LawBeefaroni
em2nought wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:18 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:15 am "By 2049 there will be no more natural blondes!!!!!!!!!"
Ethnic cleansing :naughty:

The suggestion that that is ethnic cleansing is absurd. But I'm sure WP loves the idea.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:13 am
by hepcat
em2nought wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:18 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:15 am "By 2049 there will be no more natural blondes!!!!!!!!!"
Ethnic cleansing :naughty:

Looks like blondes are going to become extinct much sooner in South Africa. :wink: :wink:
Keep watching Fox News. They'll support any belief you harbor that the white race is endangered!

#WalkAway...FarAway

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:30 am
by GreenGoo
Have you heard? Christmas is under attack!

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:43 am
by $iljanus
GreenGoo wrote:Have you heard? Christmas is under attack!
Yes it is. A White Christmas.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:06 am
by GreenGoo
$iljanus wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:43 am
GreenGoo wrote:Have you heard? Christmas is under attack!
Yes it is. A White Christmas.
Hilariously (or not) I spent some time thinking about that. Unless you mean climate change. I assume baptist churches say a few words to this effect every year, to lesser or greater degrees, depending on the minister. Is this something predominantly black churches also focus on, or is it purely a breitbart/fox news sort of thing?

At a guess, what percentage of christians in the US spend Christmas fuming about how unfair everything is, instead of on love and charity? Does the percentage cross all walks of life? I realize just how much speculation is involved in this question.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:35 am
by $iljanus

GreenGoo wrote:
$iljanus wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:43 am
GreenGoo wrote:Have you heard? Christmas is under attack!
Yes it is. A White Christmas.
Hilariously (or not) I spent some time thinking about that. Unless you mean climate change. I assume baptist churches say a few words to this effect every year, to lesser or greater degrees, depending on the minister. Is this something predominantly black churches also focus on, or is it purely a breitbart/fox news sort of thing?

At a guess, what percentage of christians in the US spend Christmas fuming about how unfair everything is, instead of on love and charity? Does the percentage cross all walks of life? I realize just how much speculation is involved in this question.
I was going for the war on White baby Jesus but I will entertain any link to the lie that is climate change too!

As a Christian, I'd like to mention that my church does dwell on occasion on the unfairness of things but unlike certain news organizations or politicians we tend more on the importance of love, tolerance, generosity and respect to address the unfairness of society. I also think that our definition of unfairness will be a little different from Hannity's or Trump's definition...

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:44 pm
by GreenGoo
Fair enough. It's a pretty unknowable question except for anecdotes and personal experience so I was just speculating.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:11 pm
by Moliere
Immigrant Girl Will Be Deported Because Adoptive Father Missed Deadline While Serving in Afghanistan
In 2013, Army Lt. Col. Patrick Schreiber and his wife put off officially adopting their teenaged daughter, Hyebin, who was born in the Republic of Korea. The reason? He was about to deploy to Afghanistan for a year. When he returned, they put through the paperwork, adopted her, and then started working on her citizenship. But Hyebin had turned 17 in the interim, which is a problem:

The U.S. immigration law cutoff for a foreign-born adopted child to become a naturalized citizen is 16, and on Friday a U.S. District Court in Kansas ruled in favor of U.S. Customs and Immigration Services that there would not be an exception in Hyebin's case. She is allowed to complete her degree in chemical engineering at the University of Kansas, which she will do next year. Then she must return to Korea, Schreiber said Monday.
#MAGA!

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:38 pm
by LawBeefaroni
She gonna steal our yobs. Goodbye, womp womp.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:39 pm
by $iljanus

Moliere wrote:Immigrant Girl Will Be Deported Because Adoptive Father Missed Deadline While Serving in Afghanistan
In 2013, Army Lt. Col. Patrick Schreiber and his wife put off officially adopting their teenaged daughter, Hyebin, who was born in the Republic of Korea. The reason? He was about to deploy to Afghanistan for a year. When he returned, they put through the paperwork, adopted her, and then started working on her citizenship. But Hyebin had turned 17 in the interim, which is a problem:

The U.S. immigration law cutoff for a foreign-born adopted child to become a naturalized citizen is 16, and on Friday a U.S. District Court in Kansas ruled in favor of U.S. Customs and Immigration Services that there would not be an exception in Hyebin's case. She is allowed to complete her degree in chemical engineering at the University of Kansas, which she will do next year. Then she must return to Korea, Schreiber said Monday.
#MAGA!
First, is the age cutoff a regulation that was on the books pre-Trump? Second, I certainly don't oppose the adoption and wish them the best but wouldn't one think they would have done some due diligence and make sure about the regulations regarding the this type of adoption?

That said, I hope their appeal is successful since I'm rather liberal in regards to immigration.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:26 pm
by GreenGoo
$iljanus wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:39 pm First, is the age cutoff a regulation that was on the books pre-Trump? Second, I certainly don't oppose the adoption and wish them the best but wouldn't one think they would have done some due diligence and make sure about the regulations regarding the this type of adoption?

That said, I hope their appeal is successful since I'm rather liberal in regards to immigration.
Brown shirts don't ask for details. It's all outrage all the time.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:29 pm
by $iljanus
GreenGoo wrote:
$iljanus wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:39 pm First, is the age cutoff a regulation that was on the books pre-Trump? Second, I certainly don't oppose the adoption and wish them the best but wouldn't one think they would have done some due diligence and make sure about the regulations regarding the this type of adoption?

That said, I hope their appeal is successful since I'm rather liberal in regards to immigration.
Brown shirts don't ask for details. It's all outrage all the time.
Dammit, I guess I'm not invited to the circle jerk. Image

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:51 pm
by Moliere

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:09 pm
by Kraken
Now here's an interesting nugget buried in a story about the Army's assessment of the immigrant invasion:
High on the list of potential dangers facing US personnel, according to the military’s assessment, is the presence of ‘‘unregulated militia members self-deploying to the border in alleged support’’ to US Customs and Border Protection.

It estimates 200 militia members could show up while troops are in the area.
The real danger may come from right-wing "patriots" with guns.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:10 pm
by Holman
Kraken wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:09 pm Now here's an interesting nugget buried in a story about the Army's assessment of the immigrant invasion:
High on the list of potential dangers facing US personnel, according to the military’s assessment, is the presence of ‘‘unregulated militia members self-deploying to the border in alleged support’’ to US Customs and Border Protection.

It estimates 200 militia members could show up while troops are in the area.
The real danger may come from right-wing "patriots" with guns.
I saw that.

Reading between the lines of the leaked planning document, it's pretty clear that the Pentagon sees this as a distraction with the potential to become a clusterfuck.

Re: Immigration Policy

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:31 pm
by Kraken
It''s almost like they resent being used as a campaign prop.