Canada - Saudi

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LordMortis
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Canada - Saudi

Post by LordMortis »

This seems deserving of its own thread and from where I sit from without, a powderkeg. I may have missed it elsewhere. it seems like a poorly handled situation gone out of control would be huge.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/saudi-a ... -1.4781002
The diplomatic row, wherein the petulant Saudis have recalled their ambassador from Ottawa and threatened to pull out thousands of their students and patients from Canadian universities and hospitals, is emblematic of a liberal international system that is wobbling, though it still has proponents.

By now, it is evident that the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is a hardliner who does not brook any dissent against the kingdom's monarchical absolutism. His loosening of social restrictions on Saudi women and imposition of restraints on the conservative Wahhabi clerical establishment impressed many, but political persecution of activists has simultaneously increased since the 32-year-old crown prince became the de facto king in 2017.
https://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-a ... ade-2018-8
Saudi Arabia and Canada's diplomatic feud over human rights took a bizarre turn recently when the kingdom unleashed a smear campaign targeting Canada's treatment of women.

After the Canadian Foreign Ministry called for the immediate release of women's-rights activists detained in Saudi Arabia, the kingdom unleashed an attack that cut nearly every dimension of bilateral ties between the two countries.

Fahad Alshlimi, a Kuwaiti commentator, said on Saudi TV last week that Canada had one of the world's worst records for its treatment of women, according to a translation from the National Post. Other commentators on Saudi media pointed to the disappearance of about 1,000 indigenous Canadian women over the past hundred or so years.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau campaigned on investigating these disappearances, and he has since launched an investigation with $41 million budget to find answers.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... support-us
Canada’s lonely stance was swiftly noticed north of the border. “We do not have a single friend in the whole entire world,” Rachel Curran, a policy director under former Canadian prime minister Stephen Harper, lamented on Twitter.

The UK was similarly muted in its response, noted Bob Rae, a former leader of the federal Liberal party. “The Brits and the Trumpians run for cover and say ‘we’re friends with both the Saudis and the Canadians,’” Rae wrote on Twitter. “Thanks for the support for human rights, guys, and we’ll remember this one for sure.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/4373334/saud ... -cn-tower/
Amid an escalating diplomatic spat between Canada and Saudi Arabia, a Saudi youth organization shared and then deleted an image on Twitter that appeared to show an Air Canada plane heading toward the CN Tower in Toronto, evoking images of the 9/11 attacks in the U.S.

“As the Arabic saying goes: ‘He who interferes with what doesn’t concern him finds what doesn’t please him,'” reads a message superimposed over the image from the Twitter account @infographic_KSA on Monday. It also accused Canada of “sticking one’s nose where it doesn’t belong.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/saudi- ... -1.4775133
audi Arabia said on Sunday that it is ordering Canada's ambassador to leave the country and freezing all new trade and investment transactions with Canada in a spat over human rights.

"We consider the Canadian ambassador to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia persona non grata and order him to leave within the next 24 hours," Saudi Arabia's Foreign Ministry said on Twitter.
"Any other attempt to interfere with our internal affairs from Canada, means that we are allowed to interfere in Canada's internal affairs," it said.

Saudi state television later reported that the Education Ministry was coming up with an "urgent plan" to move thousands of Saudi scholarship students out of Canadian schools to take classes in other countries.

The sudden and unexpected dispute bore the hallmarks of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, Saudi Arabia's 32-year-old future leader, whose recent foreign policy exploits include the war in Yemen, the boycott of Qatar and Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri's surprise resignation broadcast during a visit to the kingdom. Hariri later rescinded the resignation, widely believed to be orchestrated by Riyadh, and returned to Beirut.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by hepcat »

The Trump and Kushner dynasties have way too much money invested in Saudi Arabia to do anything that might upset them. Sucks that we won't help our true allies.
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LordMortis
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by LordMortis »

Trying hard not to look at what is happening through federal US eyes. It's hard, but I'm trying. I'm just shocked this isn't loudly the news of the last the week. I happened to catch "We are alone" headline in social media over the weekend. Then Saudi bidding to take Tesla private sparked a conversation with one of my Canadian coworkers and I was :shock:

Which reminds me, with regard to Tesla, this should be especially disconcerting to stock owners (though again, trying to divorce this converstation from US policy, which is hard to do)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/saudi- ... -1.4777407
National airline Saudia will also stop flying to Canada starting next week

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is reportedly selling off its assets in Canada and will stop buying Canadian wheat and barley, in the latest escalation in the sudden diplomatic dispute between the two countries.

Saudi Arabia's main state wheat buying agency has told grains exporters it will no longer buy Canadian wheat and barley.

"As of Tuesday, Aug. 7, 2018, Saudi Grains Organization (SAGO) can no longer accept milling wheat or feed barley cargoes of Canadian origin to be supplied," the notice to grain traders said.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by Defiant »

Fahad Alshlimi, a Kuwaiti commentator, said on Saudi TV last week that Canada had one of the world's worst records for its treatment of women, according to a translation from the National Post.
:|
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by Isgrimnur »

I mean, if you can't beat The Netherlands, why do you even get out of bed in the morning?
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by Pyperkub »

Well, the Saudis almost invaded Qatar, are in a shadow war with Iran in Yemen, as well as Syria. I'm thinking the Middle East is going to explode sooner rather than later, especially with climate change due to hit the region pretty severely, as well as the push for renewables.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by Defiant »

Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:45 pm I mean, if you can't beat The Netherlands, why do you even get out of bed in the morning?
Is that why Netherlands husband divorced her? :ninja:

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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

To the best of my knowledge the details in those articles are already several days out of date. Saudi rhetoric has already started to die down and the national slander machine is slowing down. It's hilarious to hear about all the bad things Canada is responsible for.

I thought the process of pulling student funding was already underway and that we could expect to lose thousands of students. As with American colleges, Canadian universities receive large amounts of cash from foreign students and this would hurt, in particular there are several teaching hospitals likely to be affected. With that said, this kind of disruption to the education of so many of your citizens can't be good, and the amount of spite required to even think of doing this is huge.

I can't help but notice that despite all the diplomatic and economic chaos surrounding Saudi's reaction to criticism, Saudi oil continues to flow into Canada.

Saudi's reaction has been extreme, but it's the extreme reaction of someone with low self confidence, like something you might expect from Drumpf. It will blow over because in the end, all it was was the kind of criticism that western countries have directed at other countries with human rights issues, same as it ever was.

I'm not saying Saudi's reactions are not having any impact, but I do think the prince will calm down once Canada's criticism hasn't been in the news for several days. Maybe 2 weeks, tops.

It has been an opportunity for Trudeau's conservative opponents to attack his foreign policy though, which has been even more hilarious.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by Jeff V »

GreenGoo wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:34 pm It's hilarious to hear about all the bad things Canada is responsible for.
Just wait until the Russians hack their emails... :ninja:
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by hepcat »

Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:45 pm I mean, if you can't beat The Netherlands, why do you even get out of bed in the morning?
Oh come on, we were beaten by Luxembourg? There's only like 8 women and 12 men in that entire country, for christ's sake.

...on a serious note, I wonder why Israel is so far down the list? I always thought they were ahead of the curve when it comes to equality of the sexes? :?
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by El Guapo »

hepcat wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:51 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:45 pm I mean, if you can't beat The Netherlands, why do you even get out of bed in the morning?
Oh come on, we were beaten by Luxembourg? There's only like 8 women and 12 men in that entire country, for christ's sake.
And all 8 women are treated very well.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by hepcat »

Since they moved to the Netherlands, yeah.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by Enough »

Why is Canada being left to pretty much take this on alone? Where are their allies telling SA to chill out?

It seems the west has long held a calculus that we need to be friends with SA, warts and all, to meet policy goals in the middle east. Has Canada had a strong history of calling SA out in the past? Or is this something new we are seeing?
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by Daehawk »

This seems a good place to post this.

She is not Canadian but its Saudi and women.
Woman held in Dubai with daughter after drinking wine on flight

Dentist says she was detained and had passport confiscated after having one glass of wine
Holman, 44, was arrested on 13 July after having one glass of wine on her eight-hour Emirates flight, the group said.

She was taken into custody after an immigration official questioned her about her visa and asked if she had consumed alcohol.

Holman and her daughter were initially denied food, water and access to a toilet while being held in a cell together for three days, the group said.

She faces being detained in Dubai for up to a year while awaiting a court hearing.
Saudi's airline serves drinks on the plane. They have bars at the airport. Its also surrounded by places to drink. But foreigners are forbidden to drink alcohol in Saudi Arabia and they are starting to enforce it with no warning. No one knows its illegal even until too late.
Radha Stirling, the chief executive of Detained in Dubai, said: “The UAE maintains a deliberately misleading facade that alcohol consumption is perfectly legal for visitors.

“Tourists cannot be blamed for believing that the Emirates are tolerant of western drinking habits, but this is far from reality.

“It is wholly illegal for any tourist to have any level of alcohol in their blood, even if consumed in flight and provided by Dubai’s own airline. It is illegal to consume alcohol at a bar, a hotel and a restaurant, and if breathalysed, that person will be jailed.”
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

I'm fairly certain the number of déjà vus you've caused are giving me brain cancer.

I'm not very good at my middle East knowledge and my reading comprehension is weak these days, but haven't we already explained that Saudi is not the UAE, like, multiple times now?

Feel free to correct me, this is causing me a headache.

P.s. I'm not being facetious about my middle East knowledge, which is patchy at best.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by tjg_marantz »

SA, not sorry.

There, you've broken us.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by Holman »

tjg_marantz wrote: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:39 am SA, not sorry.

There, you've broken us.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by LordMortis »

tjg_marantz wrote: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:39 am SA, not sorry.

There, you've broken us.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

Surprise! Medical students allowed to stay.
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Re: Canada - Saudi

Post by Vorret »

Interesting volte-face
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