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All Things Saudi

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El Guapo
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by El Guapo »

LordMortis wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:03 am
Alefroth wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:52 pm
I still don't understand why this is where the GOP decides to stand up to Trump.
Negotiating tactic? Trump may be the deplorable pied piper (who hates rats oddly enough) but his interests are not the interests of the GOP. They're using each other. I'm sure the GOP would love nothing more than to have the thralls turn on the sorcerer and look like champions for taking down "one of their own" because he was dirty.
I think it's still too soon to assume that they will. I'm going to wait until they actually do something substantive - a censure resolution would be something, but something with concrete teeth would be better.

But, I think it's still highly plausible that, after letting Senators fulminate righteously for a few days, McConnell just buries any actions and the relevant GOP senators do nothing.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by LordMortis »

El Guapo wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:37 am
LordMortis wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:03 am
Alefroth wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:52 pm
I still don't understand why this is where the GOP decides to stand up to Trump.
Negotiating tactic? Trump may be the deplorable pied piper (who hates rats oddly enough) but his interests are not the interests of the GOP. They're using each other. I'm sure the GOP would love nothing more than to have the thralls turn on the sorcerer and look like champions for taking down "one of their own" because he was dirty.
I think it's still too soon to assume that they will. I'm going to wait until they actually do something substantive - a censure resolution would be something, but something with concrete teeth would be better.

But, I think it's still highly plausible that, after letting Senators fulminate righteously for a few days, McConnell just buries any actions and the relevant GOP senators do nothing.
I don't think will. I do think the collective known as the GOP will not hesitate to throw him to wolves should it get them an advantage and probably actively look for that advantage. But they won't do it without close to zero risk.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman »


Kyle Griffin wrote:Jared Kushner and Mohammed bin Salman texted each other regularly, NYT reports. The exchanges continued even after Jamal Khashoggi's murder.

Kushner, it is reported, has offered the crown prince advice about how to "weather the storm."
Link to article.

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Re: All Things Saudi

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Saudis go all in on Trump:
The midterm elections have amplified an existing suspicion in Middle Eastern media of Muslim political activism in the United States. Academics, media outlets, and commentators close to Persian Gulf governments have repeatedly accused Omar, Rashida Tlaib (another newly elected Muslim congresswoman), and Abdul El-Sayed (who made a failed bid to become governor of Michigan) of being secret members of the Muslim Brotherhood who are hostile to the governments of Saudi Arabia and the UAE. On Sunday, Saudi-owned Al Arabiya published a feature insinuating that Omar and Tlaib were part of an alliance between the Democratic Party and Islamist groups to control Congress. The article accused the two of being “anti-Trump and his political team and options, especially his foreign policy starting from the sanctions on Iran to the isolation of the Muslim Brotherhood and all movements of political Islam.”...

...El-Sayed told me that political elites in places like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE felt threatened by American politicians who are also Muslim. For average Middle Easterners, his story is inspiring. (The clearest instance of Middle Easterners drawing such inspiration, ironically, was the first presidential election victory of Barack Obama, who faced false accusations of being a Muslim.)

The rise of politicians like El-Sayed, Omar, and Tlaib also undermines a core argument advanced by dictators in the Middle East: that their people are not ready for democracy. “People would not have access to power in their countries but they would if they leave; this destroys the argument by Sisi or bin Salman,” El-Sayed said, referring to Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi and Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. “What’s ironic is there is no way I would aspire to be in leadership in Egypt, the place of my fathers.”

American allies in the region also fear that the Democratic Party’s new Arab leaders will advocate for political change in their countries.
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Re: All Things Saudi

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Senators vote to end US backing for Saudi war on Yemen
The US Senate has voted to withdraw US military aid for Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen and to blame the kingdom's crown prince for the murder of a journalist.

The historic vote is the first time any chamber of US Congress has agreed to pull US forces from a military conflict under the 1973 War Powers Act.

Some of President Donald Trump's fellow Republicans defied him to pass the measure with Democrats by 56-41.

But the resolution is seen as largely symbolic and unlikely to become law.

The non-binding "war powers resolution" calls upon President Trump to remove all American forces engaging in hostilities in Yemen, except for those combating Islamist extremists.

The Senate then unanimously passed a resolution blaming Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman for Washington Post reporter Jamal Khashoggi's murder in October, and insisting that the kingdom hold accountable those responsible.

The US chose to cease refuelling Saudi war planes last month, and Thursday's resolution - if it were ultimately passed into law - would prohibit that practice from resuming.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck »

Washington Sends the Saudis a Long-Overdue Bill
Things are not going well for Saudi Arabia in Washington.

On Thursday, the Senate voted unanimously to blame Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman for the murder of the Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, and 56 members—a clear majority—-cast votes to end U.S. support for the Saudi-led war effort in Yemen. The rebuke was followed shortly afterward by a revelation about the Defense Department’s refueling of that bombing campaign: According to the Pentagon, the department had somehow failed to bill the Saudis and the Emiratis for at least $331 million in fuel and servicing costs. The Saudis, it appears, never directly paid the U.S. a penny.
We all know how Trump feels about allies that don't pony up the cash. :coffee:
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
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Re: All Things Saudi

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NPR was running a story this morning on Saudi Arabia - and how companies are having more of a conscience than our government.

Some Hollywood agencies have pulled out of deals (one even gave back $400m) but likely because they have news branches and are more concerned with their appearance to their own journalists than anything else. Other companies are calling investing there "radioactive" and won't touch it.

October article. Today's audio (4m 20s).
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Re: All Things Saudi

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WaPo
The children of slain Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi have received million-dollar houses in the kingdom and monthly five-figure payments as compensation for the killing of their father, according to current and former Saudi officials as well as people close to the family.

Khashoggi’s two sons and two daughters may also receive much larger payouts — possibly tens of millions of dollars apiece — as part of “blood money” negotiations that are expected to ensue when the trials of Khashoggi’s accused killers are completed in the coming months, according to the officials and others who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive talks.

The previously undisclosed payments are part of an effort by Saudi Arabia to reach a long-term arrangement with Khashoggi family members, aimed in part at ensuring that they continue to show restraint in their public statements about the killing of their father by Saudi operatives in Istanbul six months ago, the officials said.
...
A Saudi official described the payments as consistent with the country’s long-standing practice of providing financial support to victims of violent crime or even natural disasters and rejected the suggestion that the Khashoggi family would be obligated to remain silent. “Such support is part of our custom and culture,” the official said. “It is not attached to anything else.”

As part of their preliminary settlement, the Khashoggi children were each given houses in Jiddah worth as much as $4 million apiece. The properties are part of a shared compound in which Salah Khashoggi, the eldest son, occupies the main structure.

A banker in Jiddah, Salah is the only Khashoggi sibling who intends to continue living in Saudi Arabia, according to people close to the family. The others reside in the United States and are expected to sell their new Saudi properties.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Paingod wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:58 am
NPR was running a story this morning on Saudi Arabia - and how companies are having more of a conscience than our government.

Some Hollywood agencies have pulled out of deals (one even gave back $400m) but likely because they have news branches and are more concerned with their appearance to their own journalists than anything else. Other companies are calling investing there "radioactive" and won't touch it.

October article. Today's audio (4m 20s).

Our own government [officials] want a piece of the action. Preferably in their pockets.

Saudi Arabia's state-run oil company Saudi Aramco is by far the world's most profitable company, according to a note published Monday by credit rating agency Moody's.

The company made a profit of $111 billion in 2018, according to Moody's based on a prospectus for a bond offering the company expects to use to help it finance the purchase of 70% of Saudi Basic Industries Corp. Aramco hopes to buy a stake in the state-owned petrochemical company for $69.1 billion.

The company had revenue of $355.9 billion in 2018 and $48.8 billion of cash on the books at the end of the year. Saudi Aramco's cash on hand easily covered its $27 billion debt load.
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Re: All Things Saudi

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Isgrimnur wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:42 am
WaPo
The children of slain Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi have received million-dollar houses in the kingdom and monthly five-figure payments as compensation for the killing of their father, according to current and former Saudi officials as well as people close to the family.

Khashoggi’s two sons and two daughters may also receive much larger payouts — possibly tens of millions of dollars apiece — as part of “blood money” negotiations that are expected to ensue when the trials of Khashoggi’s accused killers are completed in the coming months, according to the officials and others who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive talks.

The previously undisclosed payments are part of an effort by Saudi Arabia to reach a long-term arrangement with Khashoggi family members, aimed in part at ensuring that they continue to show restraint in their public statements about the killing of their father by Saudi operatives in Istanbul six months ago, the officials said.
...
A Saudi official described the payments as consistent with the country’s long-standing practice of providing financial support to victims of violent crime or even natural disasters and rejected the suggestion that the Khashoggi family would be obligated to remain silent. “Such support is part of our custom and culture,” the official said. “It is not attached to anything else.”

As part of their preliminary settlement, the Khashoggi children were each given houses in Jiddah worth as much as $4 million apiece. The properties are part of a shared compound in which Salah Khashoggi, the eldest son, occupies the main structure.

A banker in Jiddah, Salah is the only Khashoggi sibling who intends to continue living in Saudi Arabia, according to people close to the family. The others reside in the United States and are expected to sell their new Saudi properties.
Must be an odd position to be in - "Hey, they murdered & dismembered my dad, but now I am set for live because of it.".

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Re: All Things Saudi

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Saudi Arabia oil facilities ablaze after drone strikes
Drone attacks have set alight two major oil facilities run by the state-owned company Aramco in Saudi Arabia, state media say.

Footage showed a huge blaze at Abqaiq, site of Aramco's largest oil processing plant, while a second drone attack started fires in the Khurais oilfield.

The fires are now under control at both facilities, state media said.

A spokesman for the Iran-aligned Houthi group in Yemen said it had deployed 10 drones in the attacks.

The military spokesman, Yahya Sarea, told al-Masirah TV, which is owned by the Houthi movement and is based in Beirut, that further attacks could be expected in the future.

He said Saturday's attack was one of the biggest operations the Houthi forces had undertaken inside Saudi Arabia and was carried out in "co-operation with the honourable people inside the kingdom".
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Re: All Things Saudi

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I'm sure the Saudis are delighted with Trump's idea to give Iran $10 billion.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman »

Relax. We're just waiting to hear what the Saudis want us to do, because America First.


POTUS wrote:Saudi Arabia oil supply was attacked. There is reason to believe that we know the culprit, are locked and loaded depending on verification, but are waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!
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Re: All Things Saudi

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Maybe he'll fart in their general direction.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Kraken »

Kind of bittersweet for Bolton, eh? We attack Iran and all he gets is a lousy T-shirt.

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Re: All Things Saudi

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Fuck that shit. Time to break out the old No War For Oil chant.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by gbasden »

$iljanus wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:57 pm
Fuck that shit. Time to break out the old No War For Oil chant.
Oh, I doubt he's worried about geopolitical considerations like oil. One of his dictator club buddies was attacked.

The thought that we might get some service member killed to help protect MBS makes my stomach turn.

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Re: All Things Saudi

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The fact that he doesn't even bother to find a creative way to lie is even more amazing to me. It's the same as watching a 4 year old lie. You could catch him in mid kiss with Lou Dobbs and he'd tell you he's never met the man as soon as he came up for air.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by em2nought »

So this is the course of action John Kerry was recommending to Iran on his trip. :wink:
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat »

Yes, and my local Piggly Wiggly no longer carries fried muskrat.

Wait,..we are just talking gibberish now, right?
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Re: All Things Saudi

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Well, now...

Saudi oil attacks: Drones and missiles were launched from Iran - US officials
The US has reportedly identified locations in Iran from which drones and cruise missiles were launched against the Saudi oil facilities on Saturday.

Senior officials told CBS News that the locations were in southern Iran, at the northern end of the Gulf.

Saudi air defences did not stop the drones and missiles because they were pointed southwards, to prevent attacks from Yemen, the officials added.

Iran denies involvement in the attacks, which disrupted global oil supplies.

Yemen's Iran-aligned Houthi rebels have said they launched the drones that struck the Abqaiq oil processing plant, the world's largest, and the Khurais oilfield.

They have attacked Saudi oil facilities before, but US officials said on Sunday that they believed the drones and missiles did not originate from the south or south-west, and instead were launched from the north or north-west.
I'm not sure that I believe that the Iranians are dumb enough to launch missiles from their own territory when they know they are under close surveillance. :think:
Time and tide melt the snowman.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Smoove_B »

No worries - America is for sale.


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Re: All Things Saudi

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I think it's time for folks in Congress to read up on the War Powers Act to prevent any misadventures...

I know the Saudis are "allies" but do we have any formal treaties with them regarding mutual defense?

And I'm fucking tired of Trump breaking everything down to his transactional tiny real estate mentality. Is he going to sell our troops to the House of Saud if we get a deposit?
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Re: All Things Saudi

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The prosecutors are closing in so time for some dog wagging.
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Re: All Things Saudi

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Max Peck wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:32 am
Well, now...

Saudi oil attacks: Drones and missiles were launched from Iran - US officials
The US has reportedly identified locations in Iran from which drones and cruise missiles were launched against the Saudi oil facilities on Saturday.

Senior officials told CBS News that the locations were in southern Iran, at the northern end of the Gulf.

Saudi air defences did not stop the drones and missiles because they were pointed southwards, to prevent attacks from Yemen, the officials added.

Iran denies involvement in the attacks, which disrupted global oil supplies.

Yemen's Iran-aligned Houthi rebels have said they launched the drones that struck the Abqaiq oil processing plant, the world's largest, and the Khurais oilfield.

They have attacked Saudi oil facilities before, but US officials said on Sunday that they believed the drones and missiles did not originate from the south or south-west, and instead were launched from the north or north-west.
I'm not sure that I believe that the Iranians are dumb enough to launch missiles from their own territory when they know they are under close surveillance. :think:
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Re: All Things Saudi

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$iljanus wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:46 am
I think it's time for folks in Congress to read up on the War Powers Act to prevent any misadventures...

I know the Saudis are "allies" but do we have any formal treaties with them regarding mutual defense?

And I'm fucking tired of Trump breaking everything down to his transactional tiny real estate mentality. Is he going to sell our troops to the House of Saud if we get a deposit?
Hey, this isn't very complicated. The Saudi government says nice things about Trump. Therefore the Saudi government is smart and trustworthy. Therefore we should listen to the Saudi government. Trump QED.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Skinypupy »

Smoove_B wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:41 am
No worries - America is for sale.
But only to Saudi Arabia, because they pay cash.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat »

America is the new Mandalor.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by $iljanus »

El Guapo wrote:
$iljanus wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:46 am
I think it's time for folks in Congress to read up on the War Powers Act to prevent any misadventures...

I know the Saudis are "allies" but do we have any formal treaties with them regarding mutual defense?

And I'm fucking tired of Trump breaking everything down to his transactional tiny real estate mentality. Is he going to sell our troops to the House of Saud if we get a deposit?
Hey, this isn't very complicated. The Saudi government says nice things about Trump. Therefore the Saudi government is smart and trustworthy. Therefore we should listen to the Saudi government. Trump QED.
And I guess he couldn't resist the will of the King of Saudi Arabia when he was holding that palantír a few years ago.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by noxiousdog »

Japan is disputing the Iran story.
Japanese Defense Minister Taro Kono told reporters Wednesday that he has not seen any intelligence indicating Iran was behind the attacks on Saudi Arabian oil facilities over the weekend, contradicting Saudi and Trump administration claims about the incident.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by El Guapo »

noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:09 pm
Japan is disputing the Iran story.
Japanese Defense Minister Taro Kono told reporters Wednesday that he has not seen any intelligence indicating Iran was behind the attacks on Saudi Arabian oil facilities over the weekend, contradicting Saudi and Trump administration claims about the incident.
Is there any reason why Japan *would* have received copies of the relevant intelligence? Are they normally in the loop about this sort of thing?

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by NickAragua »

hepcat wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:08 pm
Yes, and my local Piggly Wiggly no longer carries fried muskrat.
Goddammit, I wanted to buy some fried muskrat.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by noxiousdog »

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:17 pm
noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:09 pm
Japan is disputing the Iran story.
Japanese Defense Minister Taro Kono told reporters Wednesday that he has not seen any intelligence indicating Iran was behind the attacks on Saudi Arabian oil facilities over the weekend, contradicting Saudi and Trump administration claims about the incident.
Is there any reason why Japan *would* have received copies of the relevant intelligence? Are they normally in the loop about this sort of thing?
I would think they would be up to date on any international incidents. Especially oil related considering how much they import.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck »

I thought Trump likes allies that don't get captured...

Yemen war: Houthi rebels claim mass capture of Saudi troops
Houthi rebels in Yemen say they have captured a large number of Saudi troops after a major attack near the border between the two countries.

A Houthi spokesman told the BBC that three Saudi brigades had surrendered near the Saudi town of Najran.

He said thousands of soldiers had been captured and many others killed. Saudi officials have not confirmed the claim.

The operation was the largest of its kind since the conflict began, the spokesman said.

Colonel Yahiya Sarea said Saudi forces had suffered "huge losses in life and machinery".

All those captured would be paraded on the Houthi-run Al Masirah TV network on Sunday, he added.
This is all assuming that Baghdad Bob isn't working for the Houthi rebels now, of course.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Isgrimnur »

WaPo

Turkey's Erdogan wants to tell you how much he's helped with the Khashoggi murder investigation.

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Isgrimnur
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Re: All Things Saudi

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BBC
A court in Saudi Arabia has sentenced five people to death and jailed three others over the murder of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi last year.
...
The Saudi authorities said it was the result of a "rogue operation" and put 11 unnamed individuals on trial.

A UN expert said the trial represented "the antithesis of justice".

"Bottom line: the hit-men are guilty, sentenced to death. The masterminds not only walk free. They have barely been touched by the investigation and the trial," Special Rapporteur Agnes Callamard wrote on Twitter.

A report released by Ms Callamard concluded in June that Khashoggi's death was an "extrajudicial execution" for which the Saudi state was responsible, and that there was credible evidence warranting further investigation that high-level officials, including Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, were individually liable.
...
The Turkish foreign ministry said the decision of the Saudi court "falls short of the expectations of Turkey and the international community for the clarification of all aspects of this murder and the serving of justice".

Khashoggi's fiancée, Hatice Cengiz, called the Saudi announcement "not acceptable".

The publisher of the Washington Post, for whom Khashoggi wrote columns, said: "The complete lack of transparency and the Saudi government's refusal to co-operate with independent investigators suggests that this was merely a sham trial."

But Khashoggi's son Salah, who lives in Saudi Arabia, tweeted: "We affirm our confidence in the Saudi judiciary at all levels, that it has been fair to us and that justice has been achieved."

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Holman
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman »

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:17 pm
noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:09 pm
Japan is disputing the Iran story.
Japanese Defense Minister Taro Kono told reporters Wednesday that he has not seen any intelligence indicating Iran was behind the attacks on Saudi Arabian oil facilities over the weekend, contradicting Saudi and Trump administration claims about the incident.
Is there any reason why Japan *would* have received copies of the relevant intelligence? Are they normally in the loop about this sort of thing?
SEATO, I guess? Not SEATO, but we have multiple co-defense arrangements with Japan.

Japanese ships move through the Persian Gulf just like ours. I'd imagine that means we share risk intelligence.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Smoove_B
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Smoove_B »

Holy crap.


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Unagi
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Unagi »

Smoove_B wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:58 am
Holy crap.
:clap:
glad he said it.

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Holman
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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