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All Things Saudi

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Default » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:32 pm

hepcat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:50 am
I don't actually consider Evangelicals to be Christians.
This. I have never seen a group of people so pants-shittingly scared of everyone and everything.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:14 pm

Default wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:32 pm
hepcat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:50 am
I don't actually consider Evangelicals to be Christians.
This. I have never seen a group of people so pants-shittingly scared of everyone and everything.
I can't sign on to this because I know too many Evangelicals personally committed to trying to live Christlike lives.

But the movement as a movement has become so politicized and embedded in secular politics that it is a power faction disguised as a faith. It's basically what the Catholic church hierarchy was during the late medieval and early modern periods.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:34 pm

Top men at work.


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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Daehawk » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:14 am

What a shit led country we live in.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Grifman » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:15 am

hepcat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:50 am
I don't actually consider Evangelicals to be Christians.
Pat Robertson doesn’t speak for Evangelicals.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:16 am

malchior wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:34 pm
Top men at work.

The linked article is definitely worth your time, especially since "Khasshogi supported terrorists!" has already bobbed to the surface of the Fox punditry toilet.

I fully expect Trump to repeat it at his next rally, possibly while pretending to use a bone saw.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:19 am

Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:15 am
hepcat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:50 am
I don't actually consider Evangelicals to be Christians.
Pat Robertson doesn’t speak for Evangelicals.
No, evangelicals speak for themselves by continually supporting this president in majority numbers. There are Christians in this country. I just don't count Evangelicals amongst their numbers.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Paingod » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:28 am

stessier wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:34 pm
Trump: 'It certainly looks' as if missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi is dead

Wonder what tipped him off.
He will never stop looking for the Real Killer.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Grifman » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:31 am

hepcat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:19 am
Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:15 am
hepcat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:50 am
I don't actually consider Evangelicals to be Christians.
Pat Robertson doesn’t speak for Evangelicals.
No, evangelicals speak for themselves by continually supporting this president in majority numbers. There are Christians in this country. I just don't count Evangelicals amongst their numbers.
All Evangelicals don't support Trump, such as myself - about 20% of us don't. And people can make bad choices, but that should not be the only thing that defines them. Take the worst thing you've done - if I knew what it was, should I let that be the one determining factor as to how I assess you as a person?

PS, I'm not defending the choice of the majority of white Evangelicals to support Trump, I despise it and mourn it at the same time.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:42 am

Actions and values define a person.

Voting for Drumpf shows a failing of both.

I'm not willing to condemn the ignorant. If they simply aren't aware, that's a different failing, but a far less serious one. If they are willfully ignorant, then onto the condemnation pile they go.

Whether that applies to an individual or not is irrelevant. Evangelicals have, as a group, chosen to support Drumpf.

Onto the pile they go.

As usual, individuals are case by case. 80% of a group? It's fair to generalize the group on that specific topic.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:59 am

Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:31 am
hepcat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:19 am
No, evangelicals speak for themselves by continually supporting this president in majority numbers...
All Evangelicals don't support Trump, such as myself - about 20% of us don't..
Actually, I think on this point you are both in perfect agreement.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:39 am

Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:31 am
hepcat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:19 am
Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:15 am
hepcat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:50 am
I don't actually consider Evangelicals to be Christians.
Pat Robertson doesn’t speak for Evangelicals.
No, evangelicals speak for themselves by continually supporting this president in majority numbers. There are Christians in this country. I just don't count Evangelicals amongst their numbers.
All Evangelicals don't support Trump, such as myself - about 20% of us don't. And people can make bad choices, but that should not be the only thing that defines them. Take the worst thing you've done - if I knew what it was, should I let that be the one determining factor as to how I assess you as a person?

PS, I'm not defending the choice of the majority of white Evangelicals to support Trump, I despise it and mourn it at the same time.
I've said it before, but I get discouraged by the majority support a thrice married adulterer with a history of questionable morals still enjoys from the evangelical crowd, while they still claim to adhere to higher values. That sometimes leads to hyperbole on my part born out of frustration. No offense meant to those in the minority who actually do have higher values. I will try to swallow my own rage whenever I hear another story like the one I was replying to, while remembering that there are some who still practice what they preach.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Grifman » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:28 am

hepcat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:39 am
Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:31 am
hepcat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:19 am
Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:15 am
hepcat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:50 am
I don't actually consider Evangelicals to be Christians.
Pat Robertson doesn’t speak for Evangelicals.
No, evangelicals speak for themselves by continually supporting this president in majority numbers. There are Christians in this country. I just don't count Evangelicals amongst their numbers.
All Evangelicals don't support Trump, such as myself - about 20% of us don't. And people can make bad choices, but that should not be the only thing that defines them. Take the worst thing you've done - if I knew what it was, should I let that be the one determining factor as to how I assess you as a person?

PS, I'm not defending the choice of the majority of white Evangelicals to support Trump, I despise it and mourn it at the same time.
I've said it before, but I get discouraged by the majority support a thrice married adulterer with a history of questionable morals still enjoys from the evangelical crowd, while they still claim to adhere to higher values. That sometimes leads to hyperbole on my part born out of frustration. No offense meant to those in the minority who actually do have higher values. I will try to swallow my own rage whenever I hear another story like the one I was replying to, while remembering that there are some who still practice what they preach.
No, totally understandable. I feel exactly the way you do oftentimes - and these are my people! I did not take offense at what you said. My point is that you posted right after the article about Pat Robertson, which implied that evangelicals would agree with him on Saudi Arabia. I was just trying to say, that until proven otherwise, that is an assumption that has no proof - and frankly, I think Robertson's cred with evangelicals has gone down over time as he seems to have gotten more whacky of the years. Yes, evangelicals for the most part, still support Trump. That doesn't necessarily mean that they support Robertson on Saudi Arabia. That's really all I was trying to say.

FYI if you follow things, here, I have never defended evangelicals' support of Trump. People here make many negative remarks bout evangelicals and I never say anything - because IMO, there's nothing to defend. I tend to agree with many of those negative remarks (though perhaps not necessarily in the terms used at the time :) ).
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Grifman » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:39 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:42 am
Actions and values define a person.

Voting for Drumpf shows a failing of both.

I'm not willing to condemn the ignorant. If they simply aren't aware, that's a different failing, but a far less serious one. If they are willfully ignorant, then onto the condemnation pile they go.

Whether that applies to an individual or not is irrelevant. Evangelicals have, as a group, chosen to support Drumpf.

Onto the pile they go.

As usual, individuals are case by case. 80% of a group? It's fair to generalize the group on that specific topic.
Actions and values do define a person. But support of Trump is just one action out of a multitude of actions. As I said before, if I knew of the worst thing you had done/thought, would you want me to judge you in your entirety but that one thought/action? I suspect none of us would fare well by that standard.

I have no problem with you condemning evangelical support of Trump - I do that also. However, putting people "on the pile" because of this is what I have a problem with. I suspect both you and I would end up there also if everything were known about us.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:42 am

Robertson is theologically a freakish outlier (although he still commands a wide audience), but I think major Evangelical leaders (e.g. Jerry Falwell Jr, Franklin Graham, numerous Evangelically aligned PACs and policy groups, etc) would entirely agree with him here.

That's the problem for me. People I love (including my parents and some of my oldest friends) are genuine in their Christian faith yet continue to support Trump. Maybe some of them have occasional doubts, but they suppress or massage them away with Jeff Flakean regularity. These are people who literally volunteer hours every week in serving the needs of others (true, often others already within their church community) while accepting Trump's lies and stoking of bigotry.

That's the perversion the Moral Majority and its successors have inflicted on American Christian life: the whole enterprise is about making political and social evils palatable to people who genuinely feel the need to do good.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:41 am

Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:39 am


Actions and values do define a person. But support of Trump is just one action out of a multitude of actions.
It's action that demonstrates their values. And let's not fool ourselves, this is not a single action. It's an action that results in a whole host of actions, cascading in a way that few other actions in our lives will ever do. It'll take an awful lot of tithing to balance that kind of bad karma.

I'm comfortable condemning whatever % of that 80% that is paying attention and knows what drumpf is, and supports him anyway. It's still a majority. How is me condemning those any different from you despising and mourning it?

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:48 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:41 am
Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:39 am


Actions and values do define a person. But support of Trump is just one action out of a multitude of actions.
It's action that demonstrates their values. And let's not fool ourselves, this is not a single action. It's an action that results in a whole host of actions, cascading in a way that few other actions in our lives will ever do. It'll take an awful lot of tithing to balance that kind of bad karma.

I'm comfortable condemning whatever % of that 80% that is paying attention and knows what drumpf is, and supports him anyway. It's still a majority. How is me condemning those any different from you despising and mourning it?
If someone got a DUI 15 years ago or if someone has a road rage blowup, that's an action that reveals their character maybe, but isn't a fair way to judge them for their entire life. I'll grant that. Let me see the whole person and I'll cast my judgement.

Actively supporting Trump isn't a one-off action. Voting for him, sure. Campaigning for him for a few months, ok. Going to a rally that one time and getting all caught up and frothy for Qanon? Fine. But continuing to support him, and doing so actively day in and day out is not "just one in a multitude of actions." It's waking up every day and saying, "I support this man and his actions and ideals." At this point it's perfectly fair to judge someone based in their support for Trump and all he stands for.

If you support Trump and also volunteer at a soup kitchen, you aren't nuanced. You just happen to volunteer at a soup kitchen.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Paingod » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:55 pm

For me it's like...

Play-fighting with your wife and accidentally hurting her, leading to you no longer play fighting vs. beating your wife daily for years.

I see that as the difference between people who voted for Trump and people who still support him. I have no qualms with being disgusted by people who stand behind him. I feel bad for people who voted because they wanted change and are repelled by what they got.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Grifman » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:50 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:41 am
How is me condemning those any different from you despising and mourning it?
Because though I despise and mourn their actions, I don't believe I should put those people "on the pile", as you put it.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by gbasden » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:02 pm

Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:50 pm
GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:41 am
How is me condemning those any different from you despising and mourning it?
Because though I despise and mourn their actions, I don't believe I should put those people "on the pile", as you put it.
I'm honestly not trying to pile on, but I've had this conversation with my evangelical sister and I just can't wrap my head around it. It seems like time after time they directly support actions that are the exact opposite of what Jesus calls for in the Bible. Putting kids in cages, leaving the poor without care or shelter, dismantling what's left of the social safety net, enriching people who are already obscenely wealthy, graft, corruption - how do they square this against the exhortation to love your neighbor as yourself? Is the parable of the Good Samaritan simply leftist propaganda? When they look at their WWJD bracelets, do they think "I've got mine, jack, go pound sand?" It's just incomprehensible to me. How do they rationalize all of this and still consider themselves followers of Christ?

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm

Grifman wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:50 pm
Because though I despise and mourn their actions, I don't believe I should put those people "on the pile", as you put it.
Shrug.

To each their own.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:44 pm

Paingod wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:55 pm
For me it's like...

Play-fighting with your wife and accidentally hurting her, leading to you no longer play fighting vs. beating your wife daily for years.
I'd like to award Paingod with the most uncomfortable analogy of the month...but I'm afraid to go near him now.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:51 pm



Link

The official Saudi explanation will be "Resisting Arrest (Dismemberment)."
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:46 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:42 am
Actions and values define a person.

Voting for Drumpf shows a failing of both.

I'm not willing to condemn the ignorant. If they simply aren't aware, that's a different failing, but a far less serious one. If they are willfully ignorant, then onto the condemnation pile they go.

Whether that applies to an individual or not is irrelevant. Evangelicals have, as a group, chosen to support Drumpf.

Onto the pile they go.

As usual, individuals are case by case. 80% of a group? It's fair to generalize the group on that specific topic.
I'm going to take issue with this. A lot of people were extremely willing to overlook (or just be blind to) Trump's failings in order to vote AGAINST Hillary.

And I suspect that despite the intervening 2 years, they would probably do the same all over again. Not as many, but still a large number.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:35 pm

The only mistake I made was using vote when I meant support.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Default » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:39 pm

Holman wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:14 pm
Default wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:32 pm
hepcat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:50 am
I don't actually consider Evangelicals to be Christians.
This. I have never seen a group of people so pants-shittingly scared of everyone and everything.
I can't sign on to this because I know too many Evangelicals personally committed to trying to live Christlike lives.

But the movement as a movement has become so politicized and embedded in secular politics that it is a power faction disguised as a faith. It's basically what the Catholic church hierarchy was during the late medieval and early modern periods.
No, the ones I know are upset by women, gays, libruls, "the war on christmas" and the impending and inevitable persecution that comes from "the world hates us for the peace we have". Are you sure they aren't secretly Episcopalians?
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:58 am

Default wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:39 pm
Holman wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:14 pm
Default wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:32 pm
hepcat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:50 am
I don't actually consider Evangelicals to be Christians.
This. I have never seen a group of people so pants-shittingly scared of everyone and everything.
I can't sign on to this because I know too many Evangelicals personally committed to trying to live Christlike lives.

But the movement as a movement has become so politicized and embedded in secular politics that it is a power faction disguised as a faith. It's basically what the Catholic church hierarchy was during the late medieval and early modern periods.
No, the ones I know are upset by women, gays, libruls, "the war on christmas" and the impending and inevitable persecution that comes from "the world hates us for the peace we have". Are you sure they aren't secretly Episcopalians?
Don't get me wrong. There are tons of Evangelicals who loudly and happily embrace bigotry, and there are churches that basically encourage it under the guise of the Culture War.

Due to my background, though, I know a large sample, and there is a range. Moderate Evangelicals are continually being driven out of the movement, though.

EDIT: Depressingly, a visit to Facebook shows me that even a lot of the (for lack of a better work) center-right Evangelicals I know are still positive on Trump.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Default » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:13 am

I'm the son of a Baptist minister, so I don't just hear the sermon, I see the slant at which it is preached. I see the lies by omission and the distain that some ministers have for the educated in general, and scientists in general.

The ones I know (protestant evangelicals, I have no experience with Catholic evangelicals) are worried that every metric they measure themselves by will be swept away. They live in a constant state of nostalgia for a world that never existed.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:05 am

Default wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:13 am
I'm the son of a Baptist minister, so I don't just hear the sermon, I see the slant at which it is preached. I see the lies by omission and the distain that some ministers have for the educated in general, and scientists in general.

The ones I know (protestant evangelicals, I have no experience with Catholic evangelicals) are worried that every metric they measure themselves by will be swept away. They live in a constant state of nostalgia for a world that never existed.
Right. The Evangelical -political- movement of the 1980s to now has always been about cultural rollback to a 1950s utopia that never was.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by RunningMn9 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:20 pm

Grifman wrote:All Evangelicals don't support Trump, such as myself - about 20% of us don't.
When you are in that kind of minority within a group it’s time to wonder if you are still part of that group.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:26 am

I wonder if they cast lots before they started wearing his clothes.
Surveillance video recorded by Turkish law enforcement purportedly shows a member of the team suspected in Jamal Khashoggi’s death wearing the slain journalist’s clothes on the day investigators say he was murdered.

The video — obtained and broadcast by CNN on Monday — appears to confirm reports that Saudi agents who allegedly killed Khashoggi used a body double as part of an attempted coverup.
...
The footage aired Monday — which appeared to show Mustafa al-Madani, 57, and an accomplice — further challenges the Saudi government's explanations of what transpired in the consulate and in the hours after Khashoggi's death.
...
In a series of clips from closed-circuit television cameras, Madani is shown wearing the gray pants, light shirt and black jacket worn by Khashoggi before he entered the mission. He also appears to be wearing spectacles and a fake beard as part of the disguise.

According to records maintained by the Department of Homeland Security, Madani, who is suspected of working for Saudi intelligence, traveled to New York shortly before Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was scheduled to arrive there as part of his U.S. tour this spring. Four users of a caller-ID app popular in the Arab world list Madani as working in intelligence, and another describes him as working in the headquarters of the kingdom's primary intelligence agency.

In the video, Madani arrives at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul's Levent district at around 11 a.m., wearing black and white sneakers and a blue plaid shirt, roughly two hours before the arrival of Khashoggi.
...
Madani is shown departing the consulate about four hours later wearing Khashoggi's clothing — except for his shoes. He is accompanied by another man wearing a black hooded sweatshirt and carrying a white plastic bag. The two suspects take a taxi to Istanbul's Sultan Ahmet district, where they enter a bathroom, the images show. Madani emerges from the bathroom wearing the same plaid shirt he wore when he arrived at the consulate, and the two men dispose of the plastic bag, which Turkish officials believe contained Khashoggi's clothes, CNN reported.

Later, the two are seen laughing as they approach an entrance to the Movenpick hotel.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:53 pm

So, as things stand today, it appears that the fallout from Khashoggi murder will be a minor purge and reorganization of the Saudi intelligence/security apparatus. Now that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has been named as the new head of the general intelligence agency, I'm sure that justice will prevail and this sort of thing will never happen again.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:12 pm

So much for us being a shining city upon a hill whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere. That light has been replaced by the Trump logo and a For Sale sign.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:52 pm

hepcat wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:12 pm
So much for us being a shining city upon a hill whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere. That light has been replaced by the Trump logo and a For Sale sign.
Yup and a horde of worthless, mean-spirited people you wouldn't piss on if they were on fire clapping for Trump's absolutely disgusting behavior.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Pyperkub » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:55 pm

More info coming out:
He ran social media for Saudi Arabia’s crown prince. He masterminded the arrest of hundreds of his country’s elite. He detained a Lebanese prime minister. And, according to two intelligence sources, he ran journalist Jamal Khashoggi’s brutal killing at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul by giving orders over Skype...

...Saud al-Qahtani, a top aide for Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, is one of the fall guys as Riyadh tries to stem international outrage at Khashoggi’s death. On Saturday, Saudi state media said King Salman had sacked Qahtani and four other officials over the killing carried out by a 15-man hit team.

But Qahtani’s influence in the crown prince’s entourage has been so vast over the past three years - his own rise tracking that of his boss - that it will be hard for Saudi officials to paint Qahtani as the mastermind of the murder without also raising questions about the involvement of Prince Mohammed, according to several sources with links to the royal court.

“This episode won’t topple MbS, but it has hit his image which will take a long time to be repaired if it ever does. The king is protecting him,” one of the sources with ties to the royal court said.

Qahtani himself once said he would never do anything without his boss’ approval.

“Do you think I make decisions without guidance? I
am an employee and a faithful executor of the orders of my lord the king and my lord the faithful crown prince,” Qahtani tweeted last summer.

Qahtani did not respond to questions from Reuters. His biography on Twitter changed in recent days from royal adviser to chairman of the Saudi Federation for Cybersecurity, Programming and Drones, a role he had held before.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:28 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:53 pm
So, as things stand today, it appears that the fallout from Khashoggi murder will be a minor purge and reorganization of the Saudi intelligence/security apparatus. Now that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has been named as the new head of the general intelligence agency, I'm sure that justice will prevail and this sort of thing will never happen again.
There will be a show trial and verdicts of treason. The suspects will be sentenced to extended prison terms or even death, and the Trumps will get to celebrate with MBS that justice has been done. Arms deals for everyone!

In a few months, no one will be aware of the round of secret pardons.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GungHo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:54 pm

Holman wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:28 pm
Max Peck wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:53 pm
So, as things stand today, it appears that the fallout from Khashoggi murder will be a minor purge and reorganization of the Saudi intelligence/security apparatus. Now that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has been named as the new head of the general intelligence agency, I'm sure that justice will prevail and this sort of thing will never happen again.
There will be a show trial and verdicts of treason. The suspects will be sentenced to extended prison terms or even death, and the Trumps will get to celebrate with MBS that justice has been done. Arms deals for everyone!

In a few months, no one will be aware of the round of secret pardons.
Between this and our not-at-all-secret funding of the Saudi war against Yemen, I wonder how many more middle easterners are we teaching to hate us?
OR
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Unagi » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:37 pm

hepcat wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:12 pm
So much for us being a shining city upon a hill whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere. That light has been replaced by the Trump logo and a For Sale sign.
and a "Rooms for Rent by the Hour" sign....

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:36 am

What's the best thing you can do for a son after ordering his father's torture and murder? Invite Force him to attend a meet and greet PR stunt, of course!



His expression speaks volumes.

p.s. the son is actually under a travel ban and can't even leave the country.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by LawBeefaroni » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:26 pm

Interesting line in an unrelated article about declining numbers at Trump hotels:

At Trump's hotel in Chicago, a document investors saw last week showed a similar drop-off [as New York]. Bookings fell 8 percent from 2015 to 2016, and this year's figures are still lower than the pace in 2016.

At both hotels, the Trump Organization told investors that it did have some good news: In recent months, their losses had been cushioned, partly by new customers from overseas. Both hotels noted an influx of visitors from Saudi Arabia.
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