Amazon has whacked our affiliate account. Hosting Donations/Commitments $2063 of $1920 (Sept 13/18). In Hand $1466 (Lump sum payments minus paypal graft). Paypal Donation Link Here

The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 60654
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by LordMortis » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Enough wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:59 pm
But frankly, many in this mode don't appear to agree with even paying for their own civilized accoutrements. Infrastructure, education, environmental protection and the like especially get short-thrifted.
Pretty much this. They only will scream about Police protection when they need police protection and don't ever want to pay for it, especially if they think they're using it and they sure as hell don't want to pay for your police protection when you live down the street from them because police aren't free and all taxation is theft.

Jeff V
Posts: 31328
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Jeff V » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:26 pm

Enough wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:59 pm
Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:31 pm
Remus West wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:19 pm
The main problem with the "smaller government" folks is that they mostly mean "cut the things that do not directly help ME" rather than eliminate true waste.
So, so, so much THIS
Nobody wants to pay for somebody else to have civilization it appears. But frankly, many in this mode don't appear to agree with even paying for their own civilized accoutrements. Infrastructure, education, environmental protection and the like especially get short-thrifted.
Like my boss, who sees no value in educating children since he personally doesn't have any. :roll:

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 60654
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by LordMortis » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:31 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:26 pm
Enough wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:59 pm
Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:31 pm
Remus West wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:19 pm
The main problem with the "smaller government" folks is that they mostly mean "cut the things that do not directly help ME" rather than eliminate true waste.
So, so, so much THIS
Nobody wants to pay for somebody else to have civilization it appears. But frankly, many in this mode don't appear to agree with even paying for their own civilized accoutrements. Infrastructure, education, environmental protection and the like especially get short-thrifted.
Like my boss, who sees no value in educating children since he personally doesn't have any. :roll:
And if he did, he'd probably send them to a private school and see no value in educating your children especially because public schools suck, why would you want to fund them?

Jeff V
Posts: 31328
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Jeff V » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:03 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:31 pm
And if he did, he'd probably send them to a private school and see no value in educating your children especially because public schools suck, why would you want to fund them?
That is an inaccurate statement. Poorly funded schools suck, regardless if they are public or private. There are some top-notch public schools out there; of course the cost of entry could be quite high. The top school district in my area has housing prices way out of my range. When we were looking a couple of years ago, we almost compromised on what was a house neither of us loved only because it appeared that it was something affordable in that school district. Although the middle and high schools were a mere 5 minute walk from that house, we found we were 100 feet short of the county line and our kids fate would instead to have been bused to a crappy inner-city school that had shitty ratings. We managed to find a way to weasel out of that house. Where we are now the schools get decent ratings, but not superlative. Reading posts in the local FB groups, it seems the biggest complaint is the schools go at the pace of the slowest kid and have no provision to accommodate fast learners. It's something to keep an eye on..my oldest starts kindergarten in the public system less than a year from now.

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 13214
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Skinypupy » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:13 pm

Enough wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:59 pm
Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:31 pm
Remus West wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:19 pm
The main problem with the "smaller government" folks is that they mostly mean "cut the things that do not directly help ME" rather than eliminate true waste.
So, so, so much THIS
Nobody wants to pay for somebody else to have civilization it appears. But frankly, many in this mode don't appear to agree with even paying for their own civilized accoutrements. Infrastructure, education, environmental protection and the like especially get short-thrifted.
Sure, because "THEY" might benefit from those things too. We can't have that!
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 40570
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:21 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:13 pm
Sure, because "THEY" might benefit from those things too. We can't have that!
Tell me that isn't the most fucked up human personality trait ever. I'd rather everyone starve/get aids/freeze to death/die from lack of healthcare than have someone who might not be deserving (in my personal judgment of course! My prejudices and preconceived notions are the final arbiter, thanks) receive some too.

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 13214
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Skinypupy » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:37 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:21 pm
Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:13 pm
Sure, because "THEY" might benefit from those things too. We can't have that!
Tell me that isn't the most fucked up human personality trait ever. I'd rather everyone starve/get aids/freeze to death/die from lack of healthcare than have someone who might not be deserving (in my personal judgment of course! My prejudices and preconceived notions are the final arbiter, thanks) receive some too.
In my experience, it always comes down to some version of "I worked harder than 'they' did, therefore 'they' don't deserve those benefits". Which is almost always accompanied by stereotyping based on conservative media pablum, complete lack of awareness of all socioeconomic barriers, and the steadfast refusal to believe such a thing as privilege really exists.

A nasty combination, that.
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

User avatar
YellowKing
Posts: 25377
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by YellowKing » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:34 pm

It all eventually boils down to lack of empathy. If you can't put yourself into the shoes of another person, then it's extraordinarily easy to dismiss them.

I'm not saying *all* Trump voters lack empathy. I know plenty of them that voted for him out of religious reasons (with whatever twisted logic that takes). They go on mission trips overseas, they volunteer at their church. I wouldn't call them unsympathetic people by any stretch of the imagination. They vote for the GOP because that's the party of God, and don't think much beyond that.

However, there's a common mindset it takes to think only of people in the abstract. As groups of "things" and numbers.

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 40570
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:21 pm

YellowKing wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:34 pm
It all eventually boils down to lack of empathy. If you can't put yourself into the shoes of another person, then it's extraordinarily easy to dismiss them.
It's not just that. It's about rationalizing how undeserving the other people are, how you personally are paying for someone to loaf around, do drugs and collect cheques while you hump your ass every day trying to pay your mortgage.

For some a single human interest story is enough to want to help everyone and if a few undeserving scammers get more than they should, well it's a small price to pay to help people in need.

For some others a single welfare fraud story is enough to convince them that there are no deserving people out there, so it's ok to cancel social programs, and if there are some people down on their luck, well, I'm sure things will turn around for them soon, they don't need handouts, but mostly I'm not going to think about them.

I don't know what the psychology phenomenon is, but basically 1 instance is enough to make some people fall on one side of the middle, or the other, and that's where they stay. I don't know how many times I've heard some certain individuals on here ignore any reference to valid people in need and focus in on the *idea* that people are getting what they don't deserve, and that's it. No charity for anyone. Of course it's awesome that they claim to be Christians too, just a certain kind of Christian, I guess. This is not an indictment of Christianity. Settle down back there.

From the video in the other thread

Mathew 25:35-40 (paraphrased, I think ;) )

"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, so now I'm lazy and entitled, you shouldn't have done that"

It's at this point that they claim that it's government charity that they are against, they give to plenty of charities in their personal lives, and maybe they do. This aversion to tax funded government social programs is just another way to rationalize that the programs are the problem, not charity, so it's ok to defund them. Because smaller government blah blah blah, government waste blah blah blah.

Meh. Wasting my breath. Sorry about that.

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 21022
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Holman » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:02 am

There's really no use quoting scripture. Christians have always been able to imagine whatever Jesus they found most necessary for other purposes.

MAGA 'Merican Jesus-in-Jackboots is really no stretch once you thoroughly demonize foreigners and strangers.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 38081
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Offline

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by hepcat » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:25 am

Every person I’ve ever met that has tried quoting scripture has been in at least two marriages.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46116
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:26 pm

hepcat wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:25 am
Every person I’ve ever met that has tried quoting scripture has been in at least two marriages.
"You cannot conceive of Heaven until you have been through Hell. Twice."
-Rob 13:5
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 14019
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Carpet_pissr » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:08 pm

YellowKing wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:34 pm
I know plenty of them that voted for him out of religious reasons (with whatever twisted logic that takes).
Well, to be fair, Trump is the best at God, so...

If he didn't say that outright, it's not a stretch to imagine he thinks it considering his other similar ridiculous comments.

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32467
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by El Guapo » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:21 pm

I just learned that Sinema is America's first openly bisexual senator. So, how about that.

User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 8592
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Jaymann » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:01 pm

So diddling pageboys doesn't count?
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>

User avatar
Fretmute
Posts: 8437
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:05 pm
Location: On a hillside, desolate
Fretmute’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Fretmute » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:22 am

Jaymann wrote:So diddling pageboys doesn't count?
Openly.

User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 17835
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Defiant » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:53 pm

A poll from YouGov/The Economist, released Wednesday, asked: "From what you know now, which party did better, or 'won,' the midterm elections?" Respondents were able to choose among the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, "about the same" and "not sure."

A plurality of Republican respondents—46 percent—said the GOP won the 2018 midterms. Just 18 percent said Democrats won. Twenty-nine percent said "about the same" and 6 percent were not sure.

Among Democrats, the numbers were predictably different. Seventy percent of Democratic respondents said they thought their party won while just 5 percent said the GOP won. Sixteen percent of Democratic respondents said the results were "about the same" for both parties and 9 percent were not sure.
https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-wo ... ts-1215781

User avatar
Daehawk
Posts: 43111
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am
daehawk’s avatar
Online

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Daehawk » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:58 pm

37 pickups with some still undecided

Id call that a DEM win and GOP being silly when the say they won.
https://www.gofundme.com/please-help-di ... -wife-died ....Help for me to take care of stuff . Wife died Jan 3 2019 after 31 years. My soulmate.
---------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
GroovAtroN, stop asking
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 13214
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Skinypupy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:53 pm

Ben McAdams (D) has pulled back in front of Mia Love (R) in Utah's 4th district.

Will be tough for Love to make back the difference, since heavily-conservative Utah County has been counted.
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32467
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by El Guapo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:32 pm

Daehawk wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:58 pm
37 pickups with some still undecided

Id call that a DEM win and GOP being silly when the say they won.
Nate Silver's giving the Democrats about even money to get to 40 seats. Not that there's much of a practical difference between 37 - 38 seats and 40, but hitting the next round number would probably have an outsized psychological impact.

And there's still one election to go! The Mississippi Senate run-off election is in about a week. I'm assuming that this will be a Republican blowout, but the Democratic candidate (Espy)'s facebook page tells me that they're tied, so I'm sure that's about right.

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 21022
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Holman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:52 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:32 pm
And there's still one election to go! The Mississippi Senate run-off election is in about a week. I'm assuming that this will be a Republican blowout, but the Democratic candidate (Espy)'s facebook page tells me that they're tied, so I'm sure that's about right.
Without voter suppression, Mississippi would be a purple state. It has the highest proportion of African-American residents (37%) in the country.

But next week's race offers little hope of a Doug-Jones-style upset. In the three-way race on Nov. 6, Espy (D) and Hyde-Smith (R) nearly tied, but the rest of the vote (16.5%) went to the more radically right-wing Republican. This time those votes will go to Hyde-Smith (even though she has failed to sufficiently praise the Confederacy in public).
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32467
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by El Guapo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:57 pm

Holman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:52 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:32 pm
And there's still one election to go! The Mississippi Senate run-off election is in about a week. I'm assuming that this will be a Republican blowout, but the Democratic candidate (Espy)'s facebook page tells me that they're tied, so I'm sure that's about right.
Without voter suppression, Mississippi would be a purple state. It has the highest proportion of African-American residents (37%) in the country.

But next week's race offers little hope of a Doug-Jones-style upset. In the three-way race on Nov. 6, Espy (D) and Hyde-Smith (R) nearly tied, but the rest of the vote (16.5%) went to the more radically right-wing Republican. This time those votes will go to Hyde-Smith (even though she has failed to sufficiently praise the Confederacy in public).
But Espy's Facebook page tells me that they're tied! Surely a candidate wouldn't lie about their internal polling.

User avatar
Fitzy
Posts: 2030
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:15 pm
Location: Rockville, MD

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Fitzy » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:40 am

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:32 pm


Nate Silver's giving the Democrats about even money to get to 40 seats. Not that there's much of a practical difference between 37 - 38 seats and 40, but hitting the next round number would probably have an outsized psychological impact.
It might make a difference on who is the next Speaker.

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32467
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by El Guapo » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:35 am

Fitzy wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:40 am
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:32 pm


Nate Silver's giving the Democrats about even money to get to 40 seats. Not that there's much of a practical difference between 37 - 38 seats and 40, but hitting the next round number would probably have an outsized psychological impact.
It might make a difference on who is the next Speaker.
True.

On that, on my ride into work this morning I saw clips from an Ocasio-Cortez interview (I think on MSNBC) where, while she didn't exactly come off as pro-Pelosi, at least seemed anti-anti-Pelosi. Basically said that the people signing the anti-Pelosi letter didn't really have a vision, and that they "didn't reflect the diversity of the party", or something like that.

If Pelosi can get Ocasio-Cortez to support her, I think that would be huge in terms of giving cover to a few progressive Reps to ultimately vote for Pelosi.

malchior
Posts: 8632
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by malchior » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:08 pm

More gerrymander data - this time from North Carolina. Much Democracy. Protect rural voters. Wow!


User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 13214
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Skinypupy » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:18 am

Looks like Dems have flipped another seat in Utah's 4th district. Crazy how close this one was, being decided by 694 votes, only 21 over what would have triggered a recount. Love hasn't conceded yet, but it doesn't look like she's got any path to win.

I'm thrilled about this one and think McAdams will be fantastic.
Last edited by Skinypupy on Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

User avatar
Vorret
Posts: 9514
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Drummondville, QC

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Vorret » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:33 am

Skinypupy wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:18 am
Looks like Dems have flipped another seat in Utah's 4th district. Crazy how close this one was, being decided by 694 votes, only 21 over what would have triggered a recount. Love hasn't conceded yet, but it doesn't look like she's got any path to win.

I'm thrilled about this one and think McAdams will be fantastic.
More reason to always vote, you never know when you'll be the deciding one.
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.

malchior
Posts: 8632
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by malchior » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:51 am

Crazy stat of the day House edition.


User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 17835
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Defiant » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:56 am

Fudge endorses Pelosi for speaker, dropping potential challenge

It looks like the anti-Pelosi movement is fizzling.

User avatar
YellowKing
Posts: 25377
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by YellowKing » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:59 am

I'm not a huge Pelosi fan, and she is reliable ammunition for the GOP, but at the same time she gets credit for the Blue Wave. I can understand the hesitation to swap out what worked in 2018 for an unknown in 2020.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 33927
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Kraken » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:19 pm

I'm ambivalent about Pelosi. While the D Party does need her experience and seniority, it would also benefit from having a younger, more charismatic leader...not that I have anybody specific in mind. I don't care how it plays out as long as they avoid a circular firing squad.

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 60654
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by LordMortis » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:30 pm

Kraken wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:19 pm
I'm ambivalent about Pelosi. While the D Party does need her experience and seniority, it would also benefit from having a younger, more charismatic leader...not that I have anybody specific in mind. I don't care how it plays out as long as they avoid a circular firing squad.
This is all it is for me. I'm not a fan of Pelosi, if I have my druthers she won't be speaker, but I don't have anyone in mind so I have no place to be critical from. There are lots of things in life I don't want but am subject to without a better alternative. Pelosi will not see me wanting take to the streets unlike, say a Ryan or a McConnell or a Trump or a Kavenaugh

User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 17835
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Defiant » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:33 pm

Far more Democratic voters (48 percent) want Pelosi to be speaker next year than say she shouldn’t be speaker (22 percent), a result that’s in line with a handful of other polls conducted in the wake of an historic Democratic victory in last week’s midterm elections.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/ ... si-1009351

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32467
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by El Guapo » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:20 pm

YellowKing wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:59 am
I'm not a huge Pelosi fan, and she is reliable ammunition for the GOP, but at the same time she gets credit for the Blue Wave. I can understand the hesitation to swap out what worked in 2018 for an unknown in 2020.
It would be pretty bonkers to swap out Pelosi now. Everything I've read indicates that she's a great majority leader (and she's held the Democratic caucus pretty unified throughout her term - *much* more unified than Senate democrats). The main downside, such as it is, is that a decade plus of Republican attack ads has made her a little politically radioactive.

But given those, it's the worst case scenario to swap her out *after* the election, once you've already secured the majority. At that point you need an effective majority leader, not a political figurehead. If they were going to swap her out, the time to do that is before the election.

I would be happy if Pelosi got the speakership, but indicated that she would make way for another Democratic leader after 2020. Would also give the Democrats time to figure out who the next leader is going to be.

User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 23184
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by noxiousdog » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:24 pm

malchior wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:51 am
Crazy stat of the day House edition.

I keep thinking about this all day and it becomes more and more ridiculous.
My continuing adventures of learning to play piano. - Now Playing Moonlight Sonata

Amazon Kindle Book Loaning Thread

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 21022
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Holman » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:36 pm

Kraken wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:19 pm
I'm ambivalent about Pelosi. While the D Party does need her experience and seniority, it would also benefit from having a younger, more charismatic leader...not that I have anybody specific in mind. I don't care how it plays out as long as they avoid a circular firing squad.
What is the speaker's real job, though? It's not really "speaking" or party leadership in a public-facing way. More and more that role falls to media darlings and/or presidential wannabes. You'll see a lot more Schiff/Harris/Booker on your TV than you will Pelosi.

The speaker sets legislative priorities and keeps committees focused and establishes a party line. Pelosi seems extraordinarily good at that, and I don't think her priorities are out of whack with what Dems want to see.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 40570
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:18 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:20 pm
It would be pretty bonkers to swap out Pelosi now. Everything I've read indicates that she's a great majority leader (and she's held the Democratic caucus pretty unified throughout her term - *much* more unified than Senate democrats). The main downside, such as it is, is that a decade plus of Republican attack ads has made her a little politically radioactive.
As an outsider I've come to realize that there is something that insiders see that I just don't. Plenty of democrats didn't like Hillary, and to the GOP she was the anti-christ, but for an outsider, she was clearly qualified, skilled and experienced. That she had all the charisma of a jar of mayonnaise is only relevant if she was going up against Charmy McCharmerson who also had a modicum of political experience on his cv to "legitimize" him.

Since, imo, that was not the case, I was perplexed that she didn't steamroll shyster slimeypants.

My point being, in the same way that I think Hillary was "known" to be the anti-christ, Pelosi is "known" to be a problem. Hell, LM doesn't even know why he doesn't like her. In fairness to LM, Pelosi's job means she has to say and do unlikable things, but that's like hiring a plumber then firing him because he's covered in shit. That's the freakin' job and she's good at it.

I'm definitely not saying this is unique to American politics, only that it took a long while for me to realize why what I saw was not what many Americans saw.

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 40570
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:20 pm

Holman wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:36 pm
The speaker sets legislative priorities and keeps committees focused and establishes a party line. Pelosi seems extraordinarily good at that, and I don't think her priorities are out of whack with what Dems want to see.
This is how I see her. I have definitely witnessed some truly obnoxious, unlikable things coming out of her mouth. I'm not sure any of that is relevant, however. The difference between her and McConnell is that she doesn't talk out of both sides of her mouth at the same time, or blatantly deny reality to support a narrative that doesn't exist.

User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 17835
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by Defiant » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:17 pm



On the one hand, this is yet another nail in the coffin of the coup against Pelosi. On the other hand it's a backhanded compliment, implying that the party is "conservative" and "bent towards corporate interests". :roll:

malchior
Posts: 8632
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The MidTerm Elections thread (2018)

Post by malchior » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Defiant wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:17 pm


On the one hand, this is yet another nail in the coffin of the coup against Pelosi. On the other hand it's a backhanded compliment, implying that the party is "conservative" and "bent towards corporate interests". :roll:
Yeah. They are pretty centrist in a classical sense but progressive for America. The second part is demonstrably true though.

Post Reply