RIP, George H. W. Bush

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RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by pr0ner »

George H. W. Bush, the 41st President of the US, passed away tonight at the age of 94.

RIP.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Combustible Lemur »

pr0ner wrote:George H. W. Bush, the 41st President of the US, passed away tonight at the age of 94.

RIP.
RIP

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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Kraken »

He was a man of principles, even if I didn't agree with them. Fun fact: He was the last Republican president to win the popular vote.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

I think George W. Bush won the popular vote in his reelection, didn’t he?
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Freyland »

He was my favorite president of all time before I became more politically aware and, like your first Love, still holds a special place in my memory.

With that in mind, I never expected GWB to be so complicit with the GOP in distracting from the current news narrative.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Moliere »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:54 am I think George W. Bush won the popular vote in his reelection, didn’t he?
That's a fact but not a fun fact.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by GungHo »

Kraken wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:36 am He was a man of principles, even if I didn't agree with them. Fun fact: He was the last Republican president to win the popular vote.
This. I actually got to shake his hand once; some college buddies and I were at an Astros spring training game in Kissimmee back in the early 90s on spring break when he rolled up. Secret service had us form a line and he walked down shaking every one's hand. Grateful for his service. RIP.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Holman »


President George HW Bush was a profoundly decent, patriotic, wise and courageous man who pretended to be far worse than he was to get elected. (The Horton ad, “a card carrying member of the ACLU.”) It became inevitable that someone would come along who didn’t have to pretend.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I was always cynical when it comes to politics but when he lost to Clinton I pretty much gave up. HW was the last presidential candidate that I felt was appropriately qualified for the office*. I view him as the end of an era.




*Obama proved me wrong but I have a feeling he'll be the last qualified in my lifetime.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Kraken »

Moliere wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:32 am
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:54 am I think George W. Bush won the popular vote in his reelection, didn’t he?
That's a fact but not a fun fact.
Yeah, he only gets partial credit for winning re-election. Incumbency is such a huge advantage that a president has to screw up pretty badly (or have beastly luck) to be limited to one term. Bush 1 was the last Republican to actually win the office with a popular vote victory, as opposed to being rehired.
LawBeefaroni wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:31 am I was always cynical when it comes to politics but when he lost to Clinton I pretty much gave up. HW was the last presidential candidate that I felt was appropriately qualified for the office*. I view him as the end of an era.




*Obama proved me wrong but I have a feeling he'll be the last qualified in my lifetime.
I'm not quite that cynical yet. It remains to be seen who'll take the D nomination in '20, but there are a number of well-qualified people lining up for it.


My news feed tells me that Trump will attend Bush's funeral. I'm surprised; I did not think he would be welcome. Of course, knowing Trump, he probably announced that without waiting for an invitation. I wonder if he can be kept away. I'm sure a lot of old-line Republicans would like to see that happen.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Holman »

It would be unheard-of for the sitting president not to attend a former president's funeral. Unfortunately.

I imagine no one will treat him warmly, though.

(Well, maybe Jimmy Carter, because he's too Christian for his own good.)
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by gilraen »

Kraken wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:39 pm My news feed tells me that Trump will attend Bush's funeral. I'm surprised; I did not think he would be welcome. Of course, knowing Trump, he probably announced that without waiting for an invitation. I wonder if he can be kept away. I'm sure a lot of old-line Republicans would like to see that happen.
It's not like a private funeral - it's essentially a state function, and the current head of state is expected to attend.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by GreenGoo »

gilraen wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:25 pm
Kraken wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:39 pm My news feed tells me that Trump will attend Bush's funeral. I'm surprised; I did not think he would be welcome. Of course, knowing Trump, he probably announced that without waiting for an invitation. I wonder if he can be kept away. I'm sure a lot of old-line Republicans would like to see that happen.
It's not like a private funeral - it's essentially a state function, and the current head of state is expected to attend.
He was expected to pay his respects on Veteran's Day too. There's a lot of things people expect from him despite evidence that those expectations are unwarranted.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Rumpy »

Read an interesting bit of trivia. Apparently he almost became a Royal Canadian Air Force Pilot. Many of his classmates from his prep school had done so and was considering following them.

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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Pyperkub »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:31 am I was always cynical when it comes to politics but when he lost to Clinton I pretty much gave up. HW was the last presidential candidate that I felt was appropriately qualified for the office*. I view him as the end of an era.




*Obama proved me wrong but I have a feeling he'll be the last qualified in my lifetime.
Hillary was probably even more qualified, save for the decades of (mostly illegitimate) attacks.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Pyperkub »

As the last pre-Fox News GOP President, he may well be the last sane GOP President in our lifetimes (and he had his issues - the Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait was mostly driven by his Ambassador giving Saddam the unofficial go-ahead in the post Cold War world). He tried to actually address soaring national debt from the Reagan years and that was one of the primary reasons he lost his re-election.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Holman »

Yes, there are certainly issues with the GHWB legacy. (I haven't seen anyone mention that he was closely involved with the Iran-Contra coverup.) We're in the polite hagiography phase right now, but there's something profoundly weird about every dead politician becoming an untarnished saint at their death.

Spoilered for extra politeness, I suppose:
Spoiler:
Enlarge Image
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Jaymann »

On the plus side he knew where to properly sign documents. I'm sure they are big on that at the CIA.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by YellowKing »

His military service alone, I think, buys him some goodwill to gloss over imperfections. And by all accounts he was a nice guy. My mom went to see him speak many years after his Presidency but before his health deteriorated, and was moved to tears. I know a couple of co-workers who met him through some of their community service initiatives, and had nothing but glowing things to say.

Whether you agreed or disagreed with his policies, he stands in stark contrast to what the GOP has become today under Trump. It rather sickens me to think that we torpedoed Bush's second term for his attempt to balance the budget, and 25 years later elected a narcissistic, pathological liar and adulterer coward bully racist as the face of the party.

I know Bush wanted Trump at his funeral, but I'll be damned if Trump is worth even standing in the shadow of the building where Bush is lying in state.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Kraken »

Gauzy remembrance -- or at least polite respect -- is appropriate at the moment of any decent person's passing. It costs us nothing to say nice things, and they comfort those who loved the deceased. He earned a ceremonious send-off. We can wait until he's in the ground to hammer out the cold truths of history.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by YellowKing »

A funeral is the first place I've seen Melania look at home. She's always hovering around like some specter of death.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Pyperkub »

Kraken wrote:Gauzy remembrance -- or at least polite respect -- is appropriate at the moment of any decent person's passing. It costs us nothing to say nice things, and they comfort those who loved the deceased. He earned a ceremonious send-off. We can wait until he's in the ground to hammer out the cold truths of history.
I think it's also recognition that it's not an easy job. In fact, it's really hard (if you actually give a crap, about doing the job well, and takes years off of one's life.

Plus everything you do is second guessed extremely publicly and should be criticized by every rational citizen, because no matter how well you do, it could always be done better.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Holman »

Kraken wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:09 pm Gauzy remembrance -- or at least polite respect -- is appropriate at the moment of any decent person's passing. It costs us nothing to say nice things, and they comfort those who loved the deceased. He earned a ceremonious send-off. We can wait until he's in the ground to hammer out the cold truths of history.
I certainly see the point, and Bush I is easier to praise than most.

But I don't look forward to having to swallow it for, say, Mitch McConnell.

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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Fireball »

George H.W. Bush was one of the most decent and thoughtful people to ever hold the presidency, and I am grateful to have been alive and aware enough to appreciate that fact. He had some grave deficiencies in terms of his understanding of the plights of people not like him, but he was unquestionably dedicated to building a safer, more peaceful, and more prosperous world. He managed the end of the Cold War well, and established a global political order that could have endured for generations had those who followed him in various nations held fast to his vision.

He will be greatly missed, and deserves to be remembered fondly, I think.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Unagi »

I'm I imagining things, or didn't he brush up against the #MeToo movement at one point?
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by noxiousdog »

Unagi wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:09 am I'm I imagining things, or didn't he brush up against the #MeToo movement at one point?
It was ridiculous nonsense. There were some complaints he told some dirty jokes and likely copped a feel he shouldn't have (more than one). However, it's pretty obvious his mind was deteriorated and any complaints should be about his handlers and not him, in my opinion.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Unagi »

Oh that's right, he did that David Cop-a-Feel joke and copped a feel or two.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by LawBeefaroni »

YellowKing wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:58 pm
I know Bush wanted Trump at his funeral, but I'll be damned if Trump is worth even standing in the shadow of the building where Bush is lying in state.
I don't want to imagine what Trump lying in state will look like.

(I mean when he's dead. Not the constant lying in state, and everywhere else, he does now.)
Holman wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:26 pm Yes, there are certainly issues with the GHWB legacy. (I haven't seen anyone mention that he was closely involved with the Iran-Contra coverup.) We're in the polite hagiography phase right now, but there's something profoundly weird about every dead politician becoming an untarnished saint at their death.

Spoilered for extra politeness, I suppose:
Spoiler:
Enlarge Image
I'm under no illusions. He certainly knew where a lot of bodies were buried. But it was more of a "rough men stand ready in the night" thing than a "what can I get out of this" thing. And it's what we needed at the time.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Holman »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:13 am
I'm under no illusions. He certainly knew where a lot of bodies were buried. But it was more of a "rough men stand ready in the night" thing than a "what can I get out of this" thing. And it's what we needed at the time.
Of course the point of the cartoon is Bush's neglect of the AIDS crisis, which was precisely the opposite of what was needed at the time.

I'm honestly of two minds about this. I do see Bush's merits, and I can admire his handling of a difficult historical transition. Of course I understand that this is the Bush family's time of grief--but I am also 100% certain that they do not read this forum.

The whitewashing of every president's legacy out of respect is a strange and dishonest American tradition. When it passes over into the suggestion that critically assessing a president's legacy is disrespectful, we have a real problem. It reached almost a fever pitch when Reagan had his turn.

If every president's reputation doubles or triples at his death, I assume we're clearing space on Rushmore for Obama.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:27 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:13 am
I'm under no illusions. He certainly knew where a lot of bodies were buried. But it was more of a "rough men stand ready in the night" thing than a "what can I get out of this" thing. And it's what we needed at the time.
Of course the point of the cartoon is Bush's neglect of the AIDS crisis, which was precisely the opposite of what was needed at the time.

I'm honestly of two minds about this. I do see Bush's merits, and I can admire his handling of a difficult historical transition. Of course I understand that this is the Bush family's time of grief--but I am also 100% certain that they do not read this forum.

The whitewashing of every president's legacy out of respect is a strange and dishonest American tradition. When it passes over into the suggestion that critically assessing a president's legacy is disrespectful, we have a real problem. It reached almost a fever pitch when Reagan had his turn.

If every president's reputation doubles or triples at his death, I assume we're clearing space on Rushmore for Obama.
Respect isn't inconsistent with criticism. I think people should refrain from comments like "I'm glad that fucker is dead", even if they honestly feel that way, because *that* would be disrespectful to the deceased. However, things like "I think he was a bad President" or the like seem perfectly fine to me. No one's required to pretend the man was a saint or had perfect judgment or anything.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by noxiousdog »

We only have multiple centuries of opportunity for criticism. We should get started as soon as possible.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Pyperkub »

Fireball wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:42 am George H.W. Bush was one of the most decent and thoughtful people to ever hold the presidency, and I am grateful to have been alive and aware enough to appreciate that fact. He had some grave deficiencies in terms of his understanding of the plights of people not like him, but he was unquestionably dedicated to building a safer, more peaceful, and more prosperous world. He managed the end of the Cold War well, and established a global political order that could have endured for generations had those who followed him in various nations held fast to his vision.

He will be greatly missed, and deserves to be remembered fondly, I think.
Well said Fireball. Thanks!
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

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noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:22 pm We only have multiple centuries of opportunity for criticism. We should get started as soon as possible.
Pretty sure I have a more limited window than you. Why procrastinate?
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

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GreenGoo wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:52 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:22 pm We only have multiple centuries of opportunity for criticism. We should get started as soon as possible.
Pretty sure I have a more limited window than you. Why procrastinate?
If that's the best use of your limited time left, carry on.
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by El Guapo »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:25 pm
Fireball wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:42 am George H.W. Bush was one of the most decent and thoughtful people to ever hold the presidency, and I am grateful to have been alive and aware enough to appreciate that fact. He had some grave deficiencies in terms of his understanding of the plights of people not like him, but he was unquestionably dedicated to building a safer, more peaceful, and more prosperous world. He managed the end of the Cold War well, and established a global political order that could have endured for generations had those who followed him in various nations held fast to his vision.

He will be greatly missed, and deserves to be remembered fondly, I think.
Well said Fireball. Thanks!
Yeah, I agree with this. My main issues with H.W. Bush mainly boil down to him being a Republican and not a Democrat, and so tending to pursue priorities accordingly. But, he was thoughtful and not a partisan hack or an ideologue, and he pursued the national interest as best as he saw fit. He represents what the Republican Party should be.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by El Guapo »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:57 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:52 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:22 pm We only have multiple centuries of opportunity for criticism. We should get started as soon as possible.
Pretty sure I have a more limited window than you. Why procrastinate?
If that's the best use of your limited time left, carry on.
Do you think it's too soon for critical assessments of the H.W. Bush presidency? Assuming that they're respectful - e.g., "I think he made mistakes on his AIDS policies". If yes, at what point would it be the right time approximately?
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

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El Guapo wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:15 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:57 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:52 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:22 pm We only have multiple centuries of opportunity for criticism. We should get started as soon as possible.
Pretty sure I have a more limited window than you. Why procrastinate?
If that's the best use of your limited time left, carry on.
Do you think it's too soon for critical assessments of the H.W. Bush presidency? Assuming that they're respectful - e.g., "I think he made mistakes on his AIDS policies". If yes, at what point would it be the right time approximately?
You make it sound like we haven't been critics of his presidency since '88.

edit: I personally find it a little disrespectful to choose funerals as a time to critique people's life. But that's just me. I found Fireball's commentary particularly relevant as I'd guess he has many of the same criticisms and yet he didn't feel that right now was the most important time to share them.
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by LordMortis »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:15 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:57 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:52 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:22 pm We only have multiple centuries of opportunity for criticism. We should get started as soon as possible.
Pretty sure I have a more limited window than you. Why procrastinate?
If that's the best use of your limited time left, carry on.
Do you think it's too soon for critical assessments of the H.W. Bush presidency? Assuming that they're respectful - e.g., "I think he made mistakes on his AIDS policies". If yes, at what point would it be the right time approximately?
Personally? Unless it's in the form of clinical sanitized fact based historical record, I'd be holding off until after November 2020 as an agent of resistance to what is happening now. But that's me.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by Jaymann »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:31 pm
El Guapo wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:15 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:57 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:52 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:22 pm We only have multiple centuries of opportunity for criticism. We should get started as soon as possible.
Pretty sure I have a more limited window than you. Why procrastinate?
If that's the best use of your limited time left, carry on.
Do you think it's too soon for critical assessments of the H.W. Bush presidency? Assuming that they're respectful - e.g., "I think he made mistakes on his AIDS policies". If yes, at what point would it be the right time approximately?
You make it sound like we haven't been critics of his presidency since '88.
Well he did tie with Nixon for second place in the Worst President of the Last Century poll. Strangely Carter edged them both out for worst.
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Re: RIP, George H. W. Bush

Post by El Guapo »

noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:31 pm
El Guapo wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:15 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:57 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:52 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:22 pm We only have multiple centuries of opportunity for criticism. We should get started as soon as possible.
Pretty sure I have a more limited window than you. Why procrastinate?
If that's the best use of your limited time left, carry on.
Do you think it's too soon for critical assessments of the H.W. Bush presidency? Assuming that they're respectful - e.g., "I think he made mistakes on his AIDS policies". If yes, at what point would it be the right time approximately?
You make it sound like we haven't been critics of his presidency since '88.

edit: I personally find it a little disrespectful to choose funerals as a time to critique people's life. But that's just me. I found Fireball's commentary particularly relevant as I'd guess he has many of the same criticisms and yet he didn't feel that right now was the most important time to share them.
I think it's different for major politicians as opposed to, say, Steve from accounting. For public figures their death seems like a relevant time to assess their life and its impact on everyone, some of which is inevitably going to be negative. As long as criticisms are respectful, I personally don't have any issue with that.

Again, assuming that I'm not, like, talking to his child or relative or something.
Black Lives Matter.
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