Fundraising complete, next renewal is August 2022. Paypal Donation Links US dollars CDN Dollars

Census 2020

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 36174
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Census 2020

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:57 am
El Guapo wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:50 am
malchior wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:39 am
El Guapo wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:35 amAgain, can't say for sure, but the odds of it holding up are low.
The question isn't that the executive order holds up - it is that they are making noise that they should do it anyway no matter what.
Right, but we already know that Trump is lawless. And if Trump does something lawless and the courts react appropriately, and it doesn't happen, then there's no real crisis.
Yeah agreed - *if* it doesn't happen is the crux. My concern is based on the DOJ reaction to the ruling and Barr's supposed affinity for expansive Presidential power. Let's say they lose and go ahead - what stops them? We have a glimpse that the DOJ lawyers already ejected from the case and they're just replacing them. It sure looks like we are in uncharted territory here.
That's always a risk with Trump - that he'll at some point decide to openly defy the courts. The response to that would be some mix of judicial contempt, congressional contempt, denial of appropriations, and the like. If the Supreme Court issued a decision invalidating an executive order and they still go ahead, I would think it would be pretty easy to convince a judge to find the relevant administration people in contempt. And honestly in some ways that's the best case scenario for a crisis - clear defiance of a court order.

Also would be a great time to impeach Trump.
Black Lives Matter.
malchior
Posts: 14457
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:56 pmThat's always a risk with Trump - that he'll at some point decide to openly defy the courts. The response to that would be some mix of judicial contempt, congressional contempt, denial of appropriations, and the like.
This all presumes a normal state of affairs. My concern is that if they are openly defying the Supreme Court I expect that all of the above will not matter too much. Besides, Trump has already thumbed his nose at it all already.
If the Supreme Court issued a decision invalidating an executive order and they still go ahead, I would think it would be pretty easy to convince a judge to find the relevant administration people in contempt. And honestly in some ways that's the best case scenario for a crisis - clear defiance of a court order.
As above - but more pointed - what good will it do?
Also would be a great time to impeach Trump.
It already is a great time. Yet here we are trudging ever on to the next failure gate.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 36174
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Census 2020

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:36 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:56 pmThat's always a risk with Trump - that he'll at some point decide to openly defy the courts. The response to that would be some mix of judicial contempt, congressional contempt, denial of appropriations, and the like.
This all presumes a normal state of affairs. My concern is that if they are openly defying the Supreme Court I expect that all of the above will not matter too much. Besides, Trump has already thumbed his nose at it all already.
If the Supreme Court issued a decision invalidating an executive order and they still go ahead, I would think it would be pretty easy to convince a judge to find the relevant administration people in contempt. And honestly in some ways that's the best case scenario for a crisis - clear defiance of a court order.
As above - but more pointed - what good will it do?
Also would be a great time to impeach Trump.
It already is a great time. Yet here we are trudging ever on to the next failure gate.
Contempt would be a BFD because it would mean that people would start going to jail if nothing changed, possibly including people like Wilbur Ross. Odds are Ross would rather reverse the census decision than going to jail. If he resigns or is fired, then the acting person next in line faces the same "reverse course or go to jail" pressure. This would be a weird hill for Trump to decide to die on, but there would be a LOT of pressure that would be brought to bear on this.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 20347
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: Census 2020

Post by Pyperkub »

El Guapo wrote:
malchior wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:36 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:56 pmThat's always a risk with Trump - that he'll at some point decide to openly defy the courts. The response to that would be some mix of judicial contempt, congressional contempt, denial of appropriations, and the like.
This all presumes a normal state of affairs. My concern is that if they are openly defying the Supreme Court I expect that all of the above will not matter too much. Besides, Trump has already thumbed his nose at it all already.
If the Supreme Court issued a decision invalidating an executive order and they still go ahead, I would think it would be pretty easy to convince a judge to find the relevant administration people in contempt. And honestly in some ways that's the best case scenario for a crisis - clear defiance of a court order.
As above - but more pointed - what good will it do?
Also would be a great time to impeach Trump.
It already is a great time. Yet here we are trudging ever on to the next failure gate.
Contempt would be a BFD because it would mean that people would start going to jail if nothing changed, possibly including people like Wilbur Ross. Odds are Ross would rather reverse the census decision than going to jail. If he resigns or is fired, then the acting person next in line faces the same "reverse course or go to jail" pressure. This would be a weird hill for Trump to decide to die on, but there would be a LOT of pressure that would be brought to bear on this.
IMHO, Trump will pardon them for including it.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
GungHo
Posts: 3929
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
Location: Second star to the right

Re: Census 2020

Post by GungHo »

If SCOTUS finds you in contempt, who actually arrests you? Wouldn't it be someone from the Executive branch? And couldn't trump simply order them not to arrest that person? Wouldn't they be a 'legal order' as Barr sees it, given his ideas about unlimited presidential powers?

Or was that kind of the point malachior was already making and I just failed my reading comprehension saving throw?
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.

-Hiccup
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

Marshal of the United States Supreme Court
The Marshal of the United States Supreme Court heads the United States Supreme Court Police, a security police service answerable to the court itself rather than to the president or attorney general. It handles security for the Supreme Court building and for the justices personally.
...
(c) The marshal shall:
...
(2) Serve and execute all process and orders issued by the Court or a member thereof;
Black lives matter
malchior
Posts: 14457
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior »

GungHo wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:09 pmOr was that kind of the point malachior was already making and I just failed my reading comprehension saving throw?
This is essentially my point. The normal mechanisms having failed we have the Marshal of the Supreme Court, the House jail, etc. None of which are truly practical remedies and I have strong doubts the system will do anything but continue to shrug at him. However, at this point it is just conjecture because we are not there yet.

I just worry about it because every day is a new attack on the rule of law and people are just assuming the system will kick in and work. Hopefully that happens but this administration is loaded with unconfirmed lackeys and the DOJ appears compromised. It is troubling. Like I said this is uncharted water.

Edit: And Barr basically just said he thought that SCOTUS got it wrong and made noise about clarifying it with the court. However he also seemingly acknowledged the plan is full steam ahead. The story indicates it will be a EO. I'd hazard a guess it probably will be paired with some bullshit DOJ memo.
Let's see what happens...
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

WaPo
The legal battle over the Trump administration’s efforts to put a citizenship question on the 2020 Census further escalated on Monday as the plaintiffs argued that Justice Department attorneys should not be allowed to withdraw from the case because they have not given “satisfactory reasons” for seeking to do so.

The Trump administration has not demonstrated that the withdrawals “will not cause further disruption, particularly in light of the history of this case and the well-documented need for expeditious resolution,” attorneys for those challenging the citizenship question said in a court filing in New York.
...
In asking to withdraw the attorneys from the case, the department argued that it did not expect the move would cause a “disruption.” But those suing said the department should articulate more clear reasons for the attorneys’ attempted withdrawal, arguing that government lawyers had previously made “rapidly shifting representations” to the court.

They also requested the judge “require any attorneys whose representations or conduct is at issue in the pending or forthcoming motions to attend any hearings on these motions or otherwise remain available to the Court and the parties to ensure the full and fair disposition of the pending motions.”
Black lives matter
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50344
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Census 2020

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:14 pm Marshal of the United States Supreme Court
The Marshal of the United States Supreme Court heads the United States Supreme Court Police, a security police service answerable to the court itself rather than to the president or attorney general. It handles security for the Supreme Court building and for the justices personally.
...
(c) The marshal shall:
...
(2) Serve and execute all process and orders issued by the Court or a member thereof;
I'm pretty sure that is limited to process and orders within the actual supreme Court building(s). They don't execute arrests.
The Marshal and the Supreme Court Police are authorized by 40 U.S.C. § 6121 to police the Supreme Court Building and protect the Justices, employees of the Court, and visitors to the Court.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 20347
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: Census 2020

Post by Pyperkub »

New Lawyers for DoJ? Not so fast sayeth the Judge...
The DOJ’s motion to withdraw certain attorneys is “patently insufficient,” Furman said in a scorching 3-page ruling.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

Nice.
Black lives matter
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 20347
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: Census 2020

Post by Pyperkub »

Mr Fed chimes in:
This is:
1. Not Normal
2. Notably Angry Even For A Federal Judge
3. Professionally Humiliating
4. Not A Good Sign For the Government's Case
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 15984
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by pr0ner »

Hodor.
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 19154
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by Grifman »

"John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it.

https://sustainatlanta.com/2015/04/02/r ... okee-land/

The Supreme Court has no way of enforcing any decision - it only has moral authority. As the article notes:
In the end, Andrew Jackson’s story reveals the ease at which the foundation of our governmental structure can be eroded. One person, in a powerful position, deciding to challenge the political and legal norms that we’ve come to rely on can have a profoundly negative impact on the integrity of our legal and political system.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 19154
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by Grifman »

pr0ner wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:15 am
I don't really see how an executive order solves the problem for them at all, but I guess we will see what their justification is.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 64014
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by LordMortis »

Grifman wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:52 am
pr0ner wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:15 am
I don't really see how an executive order solves the problem for them at all, but I guess we will see what their justification is.

Because they tried float the idea of putting tariffs on the census but they just wouldn't fly and this is the next hammer in the toolbag?
User avatar
The Meal
Posts: 27094
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:33 pm
Location: 2005 Stanley Cup Champion

Re: Census 2020

Post by The Meal »

The idea is to plaster this all over the news. Whether or not the census forms actually get printed with this question turns out to be irrelevant as long as he suppresses form returns from the intended areas of the US. Even without a citizenship question, do you really think immigrants and non-citizens are going to feel comfortable with returning their census forms after all this noise?
2 + 2 = 5

Come ►pOOker◄ with us!
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 19154
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by Grifman »

The Meal wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:13 am The idea is to plaster this all over the news. Whether or not the census forms actually get printed with this question turns out to be irrelevant as long as he suppresses form returns from the intended areas of the US. Even without a citizenship question, do you really think immigrants and non-citizens are going to feel comfortable with returning their census forms after all this noise?
That's true - I've thought the same thing. All of the discussion about the census question has already served it's purpose - completion of the forms will already be significantly suppressed.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
naednek
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by naednek »

So was there an executive order today or even a press announcement? News said he was going to be talking with media at noon eastern, and haven't' heard anything
hepcat - "I agree with Naednek"
malchior
Posts: 14457
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior »

This is shades of several other "big" announcements by Trump that also toed the line of constitutional crisis. Someone is working this fucking moron over at the moment to convince him to do something less drastic. Will they succeed? You never know until his addled brain latches onto some other pointless fight.

Edit: Barr is talking now - they are backing down. He essentially said 'we would win but don't have time to get it done considering the complexity of the cases in front of them and the census timeline'. Whatever. Anyway, what they are doing is instead 'collecting more data' to figure out the illegal population and it sounds like they plan to challenge their inclusion in the apportionment process. So rule of law survives to live another day and they still continue to feed red meat to the base.

As an aside, Barr praised the President for his 'effective action' vis a vis the alternate data collection path and also threw out a nicely phrased #fakenews call out. He essentially was praising the strategy he likely pitched but gave the credit to Trump. The dude is legit scary.

Bonus edit: Gorka throws a fit and gets in the face of a reporter to yell at him while the #MAGA devoted cheer him on...in the Rose garden. Good grief.
malchior
Posts: 14457
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior »

FWIW word is out that Trump wants to fire Ross over the census debacle. Hilarious.
GungHo
Posts: 3929
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
Location: Second star to the right

Re: Census 2020

Post by GungHo »

malchior wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:46 pm FWIW word is out that Trump wants to fire Ross over the census debacle. Hilarious.
I wonder how many of these lackeys have to have their reputations destroyed by trying to do trump's bidding, only to be fired for it, before trump simply can't get literally anyone to work for him. I know there's been a chronic failure to fill positions across the executive since he took over, and there are of course the half dozen or so 'acting' secretaries which in any normal time would raise red flags. But at what point do those people still in the administration say 'F this'?
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.

-Hiccup
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

NPR
You've got to spend money to make money. But that's not the way Texas, and a handful of other states, are looking at the 2020 census. Officials in Texas have decided not to spend any money or make statewide plans for the census, despite the fact that the state experienced massive population growth in the past decade.

With federal dollars at risk, the state's major cities, business leaders and even nonprofits say they are being forced to step in instead.

Across the country, states are spending millions on making sure they get a better head count of their residents. For example, California officials announced they are investing as much as $154 million in the 2020 census.

But not all states are making investments, or even coming up with statewide plans to improve the count.

This year, Texas lawmakers failed to pass legislation that would have created a statewide effort aimed at making sure all Texans are counted. Measures that would have ensured millions of dollars in funding for the census in Texas also failed.
...
In the absence of state action, though, local officials in Texas say it's up to them now to make sure people are getting counted.

"So much in the state of Texas relies on local government stepping up," says Bruce Elfant, the tax assessor and voter registrar for Travis County here in Austin.
Black lives matter
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 20347
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: Census 2020

Post by Pyperkub »

Citizenship Question perma-banned:
A New York federal judge has issued an order definitively blocking the Trump administration from adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census in any form, despite the administration's insistence it has abandoned plans to add a question on the census.
Judge Jesse Furman, in his two-page order, also indicated the seriousness with which the court will continue to monitor this controversial issue, saying,"The Court will retain jurisdiction in this case to enforce the terms of this Order until the 2020 census results are processed and sent to the President by December 31, 2020."
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
Chief Justice John Roberts cast the deciding vote against President Donald Trump's attempt to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census, but only after changing his position behind the scenes, sources familiar with the private Supreme Court deliberations tell CNN.
...
For the most part, Roberts' opinion in the census case laid out why Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross had significant latitude to add a new question. He was joined by his four conservative brethren on that point. But then the chief justice swerved, and joined by the four liberal justices, said Ross' justification for the citizenship question, tied to enforcing the Voting Rights Act, was contrived.

After the justices heard arguments in late April, Roberts was ready to rule for Ross and the administration. But sometime in the weeks that followed, sources said, Roberts began to waver. He began to believe that Ross' rationale for the citizenship question had been invented, and that, despite the deference he would normally give an executive branch official, Ross' claim had to matter in the court's final judgment, which Roberts announced on June 27.
...
Roberts said judges should broadly defer to the administration as it devises the census form.

Provided the justification is truthful, that is.

To accept Ross' explanation grounded in the Voting Rights Act, the chief justice suggested in the final pages of his opinion, would essentially allow administration officials to dupe judges. Roberts said there was "a significant mismatch between the decision the Secretary made and the rationale he provided."

Declared Roberts, quoting the late US Appeals Court Judge Henry Friendly, for whom he once worked, "Our review is deferential, but we are 'not required to exhibit a naivete from which ordinary citizens are free.'"

The four other conservative justices, dissenting on this part of the ruling, believed Furman had wrongly probed Ross' rationale. Justice Clarence Thomas, joined by Justices Neil Gorsuch and Kavanaugh in an opinion, expressed suspicions of Furman's own motives as he had detailed evidence of pretext against Ross.
Black lives matter
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 14495
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Census 2020

Post by Zarathud »

It’s a shame the other conservative judges are so willfully blind to their decisions.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

“It’s okay to lie to us if you can make us almost believe it.”
Black lives matter
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

Law and Crime
Newly released documents prove the U.S. Census Bureau under President Donald Trump was directly communicating with recently deceased GOP gerrymandering expert Thomas Hofeller–despite DOJ repeatedly saying that no proof of such association existed.

Hofeller infamously authored a 2015 study favoring a so-called “citizenship question” on the 2020 Census because it “would be advantageous to Republicans and Non-Hispanic Whites” during upcoming redistricting battles in 2021 and beyond.
...
Attorney General William Barr, by way of his underlings, argued in federal court that voting rights advocates were not entitled to sanctions because they could never definitively prove any such link between Hofeller’s racist study and the administration’s plans.
...
On November 14, voting rights advocates represented by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) pointed to the depositions of Ross advisor Mark Neuman, former DOJ official John Gore, and Commerce Department General Counsel Peter Davidson.

Those depositions contained several instances of false and misleading testimony which unsuccessfully sought to conceal Hofeller’s role in shaping the Trump administration’s race-based gambit.

Belying those efforts were documents obtained by the House Oversight Committee which showed that multiple lines authored by Hofeller were plagiarized by Nueman and Gore and inserted directly into a 2017 DOJ letter purporting to offer a non-racist legal argument in favor of adding the “citizenship question” to the 2020 Census.

More to the point, however, the evidence showed that Nueman and Hofeller conferred via text on how to pull off the attempted ruse.
Black lives matter
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

NPR
More than a year after his death, a cache of computer files saved on the hard drives of Thomas Hofeller, a prominent Republican redistricting strategist, is becoming public.

Republican state lawmakers in North Carolina fought in court to keep copies of these maps, spreadsheets and other documents from entering the public record. But some files have already come to light in recent months through court filings and news reports.
...
Now more of the files are available online through a website called The Hofeller Files, where Hofeller's daughter, Stephanie Hofeller, published a link to her copy of the files on Sunday after first announcing her plans in a tweet last month.
Black lives matter
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

Common Dreams
A federal court on Thursday blocked President Donald Trump's effort to exclude undocumented immigrants from the 2020 census, delivering what the ACLU called a "victory" for immigrants' rights.

The ruling stems from legal challenges brought forth by a coalition of organizations led by the ACLU and cities and states led by New York Attorney General Letitia James.

At issue was Trump's July memorandum declaring: "For the purpose of the reapportionment of representatives following the 2020 census, it is the policy of the United States to exclude from the apportionment base aliens who are not in a lawful immigration status under the Immigration and Nationality Act."

The three-judge panel found the president's attempt unlawful, saying Trump did not act "in accordance with, and within the boundaries of, the authority that Congress has granted."
Black lives matter
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 14471
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: Census 2020

Post by Carpet_pissr »

While not related to immigration necessarily, we do have a question when doing face to face census counting (we = I am working as a Census enumerator temporarily) that calls out Hispanics specifically, and frankly, is a bit uncomfortable.

So you get the name, confirm address, ask how many people lived there on April 1, and then a separate screen comes up that specifically asks (everyone) if they are of Hispanic or Latino origin. If yes, then from where exactly. I do wonder why that question is in there, by itself. There may well be a legitimate counting purpose in asking, but if I were illegal, 1. I wouldn't be opening the door to anyone knocking and 2. I sure as hell would not answer that question. And I believe there is a different branch of questioning that comes up if they answer "yes" as well.

Then you ask the question (again, of everyone) what their race is, and within that question, is a statement (that we must read) that says "For the purpose of this interview, Hispanic is not considered a race" So if they ARE Hispanic, they have to choose: white, black, Pacific Islander, Native American, etc. This question ALWAYS stumps people that answered "yes" to the Hispanic question (which makes sense to me). One smart guy I interviewed (who obviously was hispanic, and specifically from Mexico), answered "Native American". :D And if you do that, then it asks "Which tribe?" And so on...guy just kept making up answers all the way down. :D
User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 19780
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: Census 2020

Post by Defiant »

The Trump administration is pushing the Census Bureau to end its count a week from Wednesday, even though some states haven’t collected responses from more than 10 percent of addresses.

Times Opinion predicted how many people would remain uncounted on Sept. 30, based on each state’s current response rate. Our analysis shows that those undercounts will cheat some states — mostly Republican — out of federal funding and one state out of a congressional seat.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... -2020.html
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

Politico
The 2020 census count must continue, a federal judge ruled late Thursday, rebuking the U.S. Census Bureau for a last-minute about-face that sought to wrap up the decennial count on a compressed timeline after initially asking for an extension.

An appeal from the government is expected. Enumeration, the process of counting each American, was set to end at the end of the month before the court order.
...
Experts both inside and outside the beleaguered agency raised serious concerns about the once-in-a-decade count, which was thrown into disarray by the spread of Covid-19. As early as mid-April, just weeks into the country shuttering during the pandemic, the Census Bureau pleaded with Congress to extend deadlines for the count for 120 days.

The proposed deadlines would have pushed field collection until the end of October, with apportionment data — the population count used for determining the number and population of each state's congressional districts — being submitted to the president by April 30, 2021 instead of by years’ end. But Congress never officially granted the statutory extensions, and in late July, Census Bureau Director Steven Dillingham, an appointee of President Donald Trump, began to back away from the bureau’s requested extension. In early August, the bureau officially announced it was reversing its request for an extension and would deliver apportionment data to Trump by the end of the year.
Black lives matter
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

AP News
A federal judge ordered the Census Bureau to text every 2020 census worker by Friday, letting them know the head count of every U.S. resident is continuing through the end of the month and not ending next week, as the agency previously had announced in violation of her court order.

The new order issued late Thursday by U.S. District Lucy Koh in San Jose, California, instructed the Census Bureau to send out a mass text saying an Oct. 5 target data for finishing the nation’s head count is not in effect and that people can still answer the questionnaire and census takers can still knock on doors through Oct. 31.

The judge also ordered Census Bureau director Steven Dillingham to file a declaration with the court by the start of next week confirming his agency was following a preliminary injunction she had issued last week.
...
Judge Koh wrote in Thursday’s decision that the Census Bureau and Commerce Department, which oversees the agency, had violated her injunction “in several ways.” She threatened them with sanctions or contempt proceedings if they violated the injunction again.

“Defendants’ dissemination of erroneous information; lurching from one hasty, unexplained plan to the next; and unlawful sacrifices of completeness and accuracy of the 2020 Census are upending the status quo, violating the Injunction Order, and undermining the credibility of the Census Bureau and the 2020 Census,” the judge wrote. “This must stop.”
Black lives matter
User avatar
UsulofDoom
Posts: 1414
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:55 am

Re: Census 2020

Post by UsulofDoom »

Why do they keep sending forms out when I have already entered the information on line? This is after I did it a month ago. Any one else still getting forms after they have already sent in or logged in? Seems a big waist of money.
No one knows the truth, only hypothesis, assumptions, conjectures, speculations, presumptions, guesses and theories.
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 12194
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Census 2020

Post by Jaymann »

UsulofDoom wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:08 pm Why do they keep sending forms out when I have already entered the information on line? This is after I did it a month ago. Any one else still getting forms after they have already sent in or logged in? Seems a big waist of money.
It's so you can report the illegal immigrants you are harboring.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
malchior
Posts: 14457
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior »

Call it a wrap. The SCOTUS has spoken. Apparently there is some harm to allow the census count to continue while it is litigated. The harm of course is mostly to the GOP but whatever. No explanation or voting. Just Sotomayor dissenting.

Edit: It is hard to square this with a non-political court. The date was changed by the administration. A lower court and appeals court had ruled but the Supreme Court squashes the whole thing without an explanation. I don't know if this was a surprise but reading the dissent it seems like she is making a point that the government had a heavy burden to get a Grant to Stay on the previous orders and that whatever majority voted for it ignored that burden. But the people don't deserve to know that somehow. What business is it of ours?

Last edited by malchior on Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Ralph-Wiggum
Posts: 16734
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:51 am

Re: Census 2020

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

I read somewhere that a high proportion of the areas with low return rates are rural/traditionally GOP areas and that stopping the census now may actually disproportionally harm red states. I am all for an accurate count, but if they do stop the census I hope that is true and it backfires on them.
malchior
Posts: 14457
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Census 2020

Post by malchior »

Sure. My real concern is the Trump administration shows up with some emergency request and the SCOTUS just seems to rubberstamp it. They are unusually deferential to the administration. Even in Mazars they essentially wrote the opinion to encourage delay for Trump's benefit. With Barrett a lock, I can't help but the outlook we are looking at is getting more Hungarian every day.

Edit: Updated with some backup.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68676
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Census 2020

Post by Isgrimnur »

AP
The director of the Census Bureau said Thursday that irregularities have been found during the numbers-crunching phase of the 2020 census, a development that jeopardizes the statistical agency’s ability to meet a year-end deadline for handing in numbers used for divvying up congressional seats.

The Census Bureau already was facing a shortened schedule of two and a half months for processing the data collected during the 2020 census — about half the time originally planned. The Census Bureau would not say Thursday what the anomalies were or publicly state if there would be a new deadline for the apportionment numbers.

“These types of processing anomalies have occurred in past censuses,” Census Bureau director Steven Dillingham said in a statement. “I am directing the Census Bureau to utilize all resources available to resolve this as expeditiously as possible. As it has been all along, our goal remains an accurate and statistically sound Census.”

The Census Bureau said it would not comment further.
Black lives matter
Post Reply