Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:23 pm

The second batch.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:29 pm

Heh, I know that Kraken voted for Mayor Pete!

Anyhow, I went with Harris. It came down to her vs. Biden, and I could've gone either way on that. I feel like Harris is a reasonably good package of new-ness, center-left policy ideas, smarts, and presentation.

I will say this group is one where I could be swayed materially by the debate.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:36 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:29 pm Heh, I know that Kraken voted for Mayor Pete!

Anyhow, I went with Harris. It came down to her vs. Biden, and I could've gone either way on that. I feel like Harris is a reasonably good package of new-ness, center-left policy ideas, smarts, and presentation.

I will say this group is one where I could be swayed materially by the debate.

Actually, no. I like Booty best among the centrists, but I don't prefer a centrist. Bernie would be my first choice if Warren weren't running, but as it's got to be one or the other of them, and I like her much better, I can't support him. That leaves a bunch of people I'm not invested in; I went with Harris. And as you said, the debates might very well change my mind.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:29 pm

I voted Harris here as well.

I also think she'll shine in this debate. Anyone who has seen her succinctly and clearly make a strong point in senate hearings will know what I mean.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:32 pm

Harris is still my favorite. As a former (quasi?) public sector drone, I'm impressed with how she not only presents herself but also in how she communicates. She just has *something* - it's her mannerisms or the way she speaks that really just resonates with me as a public servant. I wish I could accurately describe it, but whatever the reason, I think she'd be an excellent candidate. Also, I'm really, really, really hoping she can debate Trump.

Trent Steel · Post by **Trent Steel** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:47 pm

Biden isn’t my favorite, but I will continue to select him as the most electable candidate from the Dems.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:31 pm

Biden may be the front runner but I'm looking forward to seeing the other candidates make him and Bernie look like the old out of touch white men that they are during the debate.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:32 pm

I still think Biden is going to seem *old* in real-time comparison with other candidates. He's tired, and it shows in public events.

If he seems energetic and full of fire in the debate, I'll change my mind, but I don't expect it.

(Nevertheless, I still suspect that the ticket could very well be Biden/Warren.)

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:56 pm

The party has moved so far to the left since the 2016 election that I'm no longer sure that I can still call myself a Democrat, much less a Liberal. So, in other words, it's Joe Biden all the way for me. I will still vote Democrat as long as Sanders (who helped put Trump in office, IMHO) or Warren (Who I see as a borderline crackpot) don't end up as the nominee, but there's no way in hell I'll vote for ANY GOP politician.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:18 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:32 pm (Nevertheless, I still suspect that the ticket could very well be Biden/Warren.)

His advanced age will oblige Biden to run with a youngster, probably from a state that's in play. Warren is 69 and MA is always in the bag for the Dems. She would deliver progressives for him, though, so I won't rule it out, although I think he'll find someone more demographically advantageous who can also rally the base.

Fireball · Post by **Fireball** » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:37 am

Harris is my second choice, after Warren, so this was an easy poll for me. I also think she is the most likely Democratic vice presidential candidate, provided she doesn't win the nomination.

Fireball · Post by **Fireball** » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:38 am

Apollo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:56 pm The party has moved so far to the left since the 2016 election that I'm no longer sure that I can still call myself a Democrat, much less a Liberal. So, in other words, it's Joe Biden all the way for me. I will still vote Democrat as long as Sanders (who helped put Trump in office, IMHO) or Warren (Who I see as a borderline crackpot) don't end up as the nominee, but there's no way in hell I'll vote for ANY GOP politician.

Warren has flaws, but she is nowhere near a crackpot. She has a better grasp on what's happening in our economy, why it's hurting average people, and how to approach fixing it than any candidate to run for office since FDR.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:45 pm

Fireball wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:37 am Harris is my second choice, after Warren, so this was an easy poll for me. I also think she is the most likely Democratic vice presidential candidate, provided she doesn't win the nomination.

Why do you like Harris so much? I ask because I am inclined to like her too, but I don't know all that much about her, so I think the core of why I like her is her style and presentation, for lack of better terms.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:14 pm

A little OT, but I'm really curious how they are going to handle a "debate" with 10 people. With 2 hours and commercials, etc. it seems like the max anyone can talk will be like 10 minutes. I think I read somewhere else they guessed 7-8 minutes. Not sure how much you can discern from that but then again, I haven't watched a lot of debates.

I think they should make them play Jeopardy instead lol, or have a slap fight

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:16 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Fireball wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:37 am Harris is my second choice, after Warren, so this was an easy poll for me. I also think she is the most likely Democratic vice presidential candidate, provided she doesn't win the nomination.
Why do you like Harris so much? I ask because I am inclined to like her too, but I don't know all that much about her, so I think the core of why I like her is her style and presentation, for lack of better terms.

I know you didn't ask me but I've been paying attention to her for a while. She fits an interesting position between centrist and progressive. She's a former prosecutor and she comes across that way, but as a woman of color she lacks a certain aloofness towards minority issues, that a Beto, Bernie, Biden, Warren have to constantly work against. The draw back to that is the same, she's a former prosecutor woman of color who helped put a lot of young black and brown people in prison supported the SYSTEM.
She speaks with a strong voice, she's super coherent and articulate, and rarely sounds exasperated, she has administrative and workaday experience.

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Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:22 pm

Fireball wrote:
Apollo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:56 pm The party has moved so far to the left since the 2016 election that I'm no longer sure that I can still call myself a Democrat, much less a Liberal. So, in other words, it's Joe Biden all the way for me. I will still vote Democrat as long as Sanders (who helped put Trump in office, IMHO) or Warren (Who I see as a borderline crackpot) don't end up as the nominee, but there's no way in hell I'll vote for ANY GOP politician.
Warren has flaws, but she is nowhere near a crackpot. She has a better grasp on what's happening in our economy, why it's hurting average people, and how to approach fixing it than any candidate to run for office since FDR.

Warren/Harris 2020!
Senator Buttigeig has a nice ring to it.

Really out there but it would be a hell of a sight. Harris/Buttigeig

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Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:40 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:22 pm
Fireball wrote:
Apollo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:56 pm The party has moved so far to the left since the 2016 election that I'm no longer sure that I can still call myself a Democrat, much less a Liberal. So, in other words, it's Joe Biden all the way for me. I will still vote Democrat as long as Sanders (who helped put Trump in office, IMHO) or Warren (Who I see as a borderline crackpot) don't end up as the nominee, but there's no way in hell I'll vote for ANY GOP politician.
Warren has flaws, but she is nowhere near a crackpot. She has a better grasp on what's happening in our economy, why it's hurting average people, and how to approach fixing it than any candidate to run for office since FDR.
Warren/Harris 2020!
Senator Buttigeig has a nice ring to it.

Really out there but it would be a hell of a sight. Harris/Buttigeig

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That's probably my dream ticket at the moment, even though I wouldn't like to see Harris give up her influence as senator for that of VP.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:48 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:22 pm Senator Buttigeig has a nice ring to it.

He'd probably have to move first. Most of Indiana is a MAGA trailer park.

Fireball · Post by **Fireball** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:47 am

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:48 pm
Combustible Lemur wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:22 pm Senator Buttigeig has a nice ring to it.
He'd probably have to move first. Most of Indiana is a MAGA trailer park.

My ideal trajectory for Buttigieg would be that he leave the presidential race before he becomes a dead-ender, and either runs for the House seat that contains South Bend (where the Democrat got 45% in 2018), or takes some sort of low-level Cabinet job in the new Democratic administration in 2021 and uses that as a chance to move to, say, suburban Maryland. He can then run for office there in the future and work his way up to a real presidential campaign around 2040.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:43 pm

Is Buttigieg out of the race yet?

South Bend is getting stupid and it's making for some brutal, if unfair, soundbites.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:07 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:48 pm
Combustible Lemur wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:22 pm Senator Buttigeig has a nice ring to it.
He'd probably have to move first. Most of Indiana is a MAGA trailer park.

Sad but true. Not many actual trailers, though. Just run down houses from the 60s or before.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:53 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:43 pm Is Buttigieg out of the race yet?

South Bend is getting stupid and it's making for some brutal, if unfair, soundbites.

I've heard some on the radio today, and read some others. Brutal may be an understatement.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:57 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:07 pm Sad but true. Not many actual trailers, though. Just run down houses from the 60s or before.

Although they lack the permanence of a double-wide, RVs can be mobile homes too and the RV Hall of Fame is in Indiana.

And, needs data from recent years, but in 2015 tornado activity was on the upswing from prior years. That infers more trailer parks, not less.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:01 pm

Fewer.

And it is probably implies, as tornado activity isn't inferring anything.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:08 pm

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:39 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:01 pm Fewer.

And it is probably implies, as tornado activity isn't inferring anything.

You seem completely unaware of the intimate relationship between tornadoes and trailer parks (aka tornado magnets).

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:56 pm

For anyone who wants to watch:

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:35 pm

i have to say i like Williamson's attitude

and Harris is a compelling speaker

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:43 pm

I enjoyed Harris taking people to task with her “America does not want to witness a food fight. They want to know how we’re going to put food on the table.”

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:00 pm

I've been watching the debates in the background. I really don't like the guy I don't recognize (Bennet? Swalwell?).

IMO, Buttigieg, Gillibrand and Williamson (for what little she said) are doing well, while the others aren't. Harris is doing very well too, but her supporting eliminating private health care is disappointing.

(And I'm not sure what the format is supposed to be, but it's working poorly. It's bad enough when you have 2, 3 or 4 candidates and one interrupts another. When there are ten candidates, it's just a mess).

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:23 pm

Hickenlooper/Buttigieg would make for some epic bumper stickers.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:36 pm

Sanders' storm the barricades rhetoric is getting a bit tiresome especially when compared to candidates who seem to have thought out some kind of plan to bring about change.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:45 pm

Pete had a good response to the question of which ally would he go to first to repair the relationship with: "We have no idea what allies he's going to piss off next"

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:48 pm

Harris and Mayor Pete have been easily the most impressive to me. Pete has had a good answer for every question and Harris destroyed Biden on his anti-bussing support. And Williamson is crazy; how did she get on this stage??

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:52 pm

Harris's attack on Biden may have helped him as well as hurt him, because he seemed to come alive in response to it, IMO.

Also, I take back what I said about Williamson.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:55 pm

Yang's final line reminded me of this:

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:17 pm

Bennet is doing a lot better in the spin room than he did in the debate. I guess he's just uncomfortable in a debate setting.

(Also, the one I found annoying was Swalwell)

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:18 pm

$iljanus wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:36 pm Sanders' storm the barricades rhetoric is getting a bit tiresome especially when compared to candidates who seem to have thought out some kind of plan to bring about change.

I tend to agree; he's already won, in the sense that most of his out-there ideas from 2016 are party orthodoxy now. Everything always comes back to inequality, giving him that old-man-yelling-at-cloud vibe. Although I must say: He had a great closing statement.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:48 pm Harris and Mayor Pete have been easily the most impressive to me. Pete has had a good answer for every question and Harris destroyed Biden on his anti-bussing support. And Williamson is crazy; how did she get on this stage??

I went into this liking those two best and came out the same way. I didn't even know who Williamson is until Wife explained that she's a Xtian self-help writer, equivalent to Dr Oz or Dr Phil or somebody like that. Make her go away, please. Let's get rid of Yang, too, while we're at it.

I had hoped that the gang would take Biden out tonight, but that didn't happen. At best they whittled his lead down by a few points.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:25 pm

I'll just add that the digs at Mitch McConnell (both tonight and last night) made me happy. He really is a more serious threat than Trump, in the long run.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:33 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:48 pm Harris and Mayor Pete have been easily the most impressive to me. Pete has had a good answer for every question and Harris destroyed Biden on his anti-bussing support. And Williamson is crazy; how did she get on this stage??

Harris /Buttigieg 2020.

Who do you like best in the second cohort?