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Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

For discussion of religion and politics

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Who do you like best in the second cohort?

Michael Bennet
0
No votes
Joe Biden
5
11%
Pete Buttigieg
13
30%
Kirsten Gillibrand
3
7%
Kamala Harris
17
39%
John Hickenlooper
0
No votes
Bernie Sanders
4
9%
Eric Swalwell
0
No votes
Marianne Williamson
0
No votes
Andrew Yang
2
5%
 
Total votes: 44

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Kraken » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:09 am

In defense of Marianne Williamson. You really must play the short clip of her debate prep dance.

Maybe she's a winner, in that I went from "never heard of her" to "that's mildly entertaining."

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Kurth » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:31 am

Buttigieg was really impressive. First time I actually heard him speak. Was expecting an empty suit, but I heard a lot more substance. And he was incredibly poised.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Kurth » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:49 am

Also, I’m impressed with Harris, but I cannot stand her taking a shot a Biden, alleging that his recent comments were hurtful to her because Biden was “coddling the reputation of racists/segregationists.”

That’s clearly not what Biden was saying. He was arguing that Washington is broken because no one works across party lines. His point was that in the old days, our politicians knew they needed to work with each other to get anything done, EVEN people you were diametrically opposed to on fundamental issues, like segregationists. Nothing he said could be reasonably construed as subscribing to racist views or minimizing how abhorrent those views are and those who hold them.

Such a bullshit attack. She and others attacking Biden on this should be ashamed.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by em2nought » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:59 am

Blackhawk wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:07 pm
Jeff V wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:48 pm
Combustible Lemur wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:22 pm
Senator Buttigeig has a nice ring to it.
He'd probably have to move first. Most of Indiana is a MAGA trailer park.
Sad but true. Not many actual trailers, though. Just run down houses from the 60s or before.
We deplorables love living in our squalor whilst our elected representatives buy new $600 watches and plan on getting their student loan debts absolved with their new found power. :wink:
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by gbasden » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:54 am

That tweet reply is about the dumbest take I've seen this week. Socialism always leads to communism which leads to the death of millions? Yes, Sweden is just about to carry out mass genocide.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Lagom Lite » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:36 am

gbasden wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:54 am
That tweet reply is about the dumbest take I've seen this week. Socialism always leads to communism which leads to the death of millions? Yes, Sweden is just about to carry out mass genocide.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Lagom Lite » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:12 am

Kamala Harris seems to be going for Joe Biden's voters. Biden is strong with the African-American community, and Harris really went after Biden on race.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by hepcat » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:37 am

em2nought wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:59 am
Blackhawk wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:07 pm
Jeff V wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:48 pm
Combustible Lemur wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:22 pm
Senator Buttigeig has a nice ring to it.
He'd probably have to move first. Most of Indiana is a MAGA trailer park.
Sad but true. Not many actual trailers, though. Just run down houses from the 60s or before.
We deplorables love living in our squalor whilst our elected representatives buy new $600 watches and plan on getting their student loan debts absolved with their new found power. :wink:
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It’s more appropriate to say you only love it as long as you know no minorities have it better. THEN it becomes intolerable for your group. :mrgreen:
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Defiant » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:37 am

Biden explains past busing position after debate attack
“I supported busing to eliminate de jure segregation,” he told MSNBC after the debate. "But what we’re talking about is whether or not the Department of Education, as opposed to the courts, could order de jure segregation, meaning segregation imposed by law.”

“I supported the court’s ability to strike down any, to order busing, in fact I voted against an amendment that came up in the Senate ... that wanted to take away the power of the court to stop busing.”

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Archinerd » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:47 am

Kurth wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:49 am
Also, I’m impressed with Harris, but I cannot stand her taking a shot a Biden, alleging that his recent comments were hurtful to her because Biden was “coddling the reputation of racists/segregationists.”

That’s clearly not what Biden was saying. He was arguing that Washington is broken because no one works across party lines. His point was that in the old days, our politicians knew they needed to work with each other to get anything done, EVEN people you were diametrically opposed to on fundamental issues, like segregationists. Nothing he said could be reasonably construed as subscribing to racist views or minimizing how abhorrent those views are and those who hold them.

Such a bullshit attack. She and others attacking Biden on this should be ashamed.
I hate how our election process basically forces people who should be allied to fight one another. Orange tie guy from California was the worst, he spent all of his time sniping at the front runners. I'd much rather he focused his time and energy working to solve the issue he seems to be most passionate about, gun violence. Instead he's burning bridges with people who could potentially be the next President.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by em2nought » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:48 am

Poor Bernie, all of his ideas have come home to roost in the new far left democratic party, but now he's wearing the least popular candy wrapper on the stage.
1. White
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3. Old
4. Rich
5. Jewish
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by hepcat » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:55 am

At least he's not:

6: orange
7: stupid
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by em2nought » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:57 am

hepcat wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:55 am
At least he's not:

6: orange
7: stupid
From what I see the democrats actually embrace number seven. :wink:
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Skinypupy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:01 am

Bless your heart
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by hepcat » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:02 am

Image
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by coopasonic » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:16 am

em2nought wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:57 am
hepcat wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:55 am
At least he's not:

6: orange
7: stupid
From what I see the democrats actually embrace number seven. :wink:
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That's interesting... I mean the woman is objectively intelligent. Shouldn't memes make some kind of sense or at least be funny?
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Kurth » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:53 am

coopasonic wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:16 am
em2nought wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:57 am
hepcat wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:55 am
At least he's not:

6: orange
7: stupid
From what I see the democrats actually embrace number seven. :wink:
Enlarge Image
That's interesting... I mean the woman is objectively intelligent. Shouldn't memes make some kind of sense or at least be funny?
Hmm . . . do you have access to the Special Internet where memes are actually funny and make sense? On my internet, they're usually just trolly garbage.

Also, it kills me when I go to all the trouble to actually block someone (the only person I've ever blocked on here in 20 some years) and then their sucky posts get embedded in a quoted reply. Wish there was a technical fix to that.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by coopasonic » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:58 am

Kurth wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:53 am
Hmm . . . do you have access to the Special Internet where memes are actually funny and make sense? On my internet, they're usually just trolly garbage.
My view of the internet is pretty highly curated. Basically, here, facebook (and my friends list is pretty well curated there) and reddit front page stuff. I don't wander far on the internet.

Kurth wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:53 am
Also, it kills me when I go to all the trouble to actually block someone (the only person I've ever blocked on here in 20 some years) and then their sucky posts get embedded in a quoted reply. Wish there was a technical fix to that.
Sorry about that. I generally only quote when it is necessary for context. In this case my post wouldn't make a bit of sense without the context. *shrug* We can only do so much.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by malchior » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:01 am

Kurth wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:49 am
Also, I’m impressed with Harris, but I cannot stand her taking a shot a Biden, alleging that his recent comments were hurtful to her because Biden was “coddling the reputation of racists/segregationists.”

That’s clearly not what Biden was saying. He was arguing that Washington is broken because no one works across party lines. His point was that in the old days, our politicians knew they needed to work with each other to get anything done, EVEN people you were diametrically opposed to on fundamental issues, like segregationists. Nothing he said could be reasonably construed as subscribing to racist views or minimizing how abhorrent those views are and those who hold them.

Such a bullshit attack. She and others attacking Biden on this should be ashamed.
I generally agree but Biden has to be able to weather bullshit attacks. If he can't, figuring that out early is a good thing.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Kurth » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:22 am

coopasonic wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:58 am
Kurth wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:53 am
Also, it kills me when I go to all the trouble to actually block someone (the only person I've ever blocked on here in 20 some years) and then their sucky posts get embedded in a quoted reply. Wish there was a technical fix to that.
Sorry about that. I generally only quote when it is necessary for context. In this case my post wouldn't make a bit of sense without the context. *shrug* We can only do so much.
Totally get it, and not meant as a dig at you at all.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Skinypupy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:20 pm

Kurth wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:53 am
Also, it kills me when I go to all the trouble to actually block someone (the only person I've ever blocked on here in 20 some years) and then their sucky posts get embedded in a quoted reply. Wish there was a technical fix to that.
I forget about this as well. Will try to be better about that moving forward.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Fireball » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:27 pm

Harris was amazing, best performance of the two nights.

Buttigieg did very well in a debate for an office he is not qualified to hold.

Sanders is one note. Biden seemed unsteady. Bennet was reasonable. Hickenlooper was bad. Yang was a non-entity. Swalwell was terrible.

Williamson was an embarrassment.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:34 pm

Fireball wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:27 pm
Williamson was an embarrassment.
You just need more love, Fireball. Love is the answer to everything. :wub:

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by pr0ner » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:02 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:34 pm
Fireball wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:27 pm
Williamson was an embarrassment.
You just need more love, Fireball. Love is the answer to everything. :wub:
Looking at some of her old Tweets last night and this morning that were unearthed was an amazing experience.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by ImLawBoy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:00 pm

FWIW, I just had lunch with a couple of white dudes in their early to mid 60s (I work in an old office). One is an old-school liberal Democrat, but with some corporatist tendencies (he's worked for AT&T for 30 years, after all). The other is a moderate Republican who will vote D in the next election because he will not stomach Trump. Both of them were *very* put off by Harris's aggressive attacks on Biden. Again, it's a couple of older white guys upset with how a strong black woman is going after another old white guy, but I thought it was interesting. I'm guessing 538 will eventually have some breakdowns on how each candidate fared among different demographics, so I'll be interested in seeing whether my anecdote is representative or not.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:15 pm

Fireball wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:27 pm

Buttigieg did very well in a debate for an office he is not qualified to hold.

Pretty sure "qualified to hold office" is no longer a qualification to hold the office. The only remaining metric is electability.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by hepcat » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:34 pm

I had no idea who Williamson was before today. So I googled her, and one of the first results mentioned her friendship with Gwyneth Paltrow...which is immediately enough to disqualify her holding any office in my book.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Jaymann » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:35 pm

Williamson is probably OK for comedy relief.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by hitbyambulance » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:46 pm

i wonder where Williamson picked up her 1940s-era transatlantic accent

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by pr0ner » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:14 pm

hitbyambulance wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:46 pm
i wonder where Williamson picked up her 1940s-era transatlantic accent
Probably the 1940s.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Holman » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:22 pm

hitbyambulance wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:46 pm
i wonder where Williamson picked up her 1940s-era transatlantic accent
My impression right away was that she was trying to sound like Katharine Hepburn but not quite succeeding.

(Mimicking a famous actor/actress is an old sales trick.)
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by gbasden » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:25 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:00 pm
FWIW, I just had lunch with a couple of white dudes in their early to mid 60s (I work in an old office). One is an old-school liberal Democrat, but with some corporatist tendencies (he's worked for AT&T for 30 years, after all). The other is a moderate Republican who will vote D in the next election because he will not stomach Trump. Both of them were *very* put off by Harris's aggressive attacks on Biden. Again, it's a couple of older white guys upset with how a strong black woman is going after another old white guy, but I thought it was interesting. I'm guessing 538 will eventually have some breakdowns on how each candidate fared among different demographics, so I'll be interested in seeing whether my anecdote is representative or not.
I'm not that old (but pretty old) and I am a white dude, so I suppose I meet the demo, but I found her attack on Biden to be gross. It seemed manufactured and hollow, and a cheap way to score political points. I would probably feel less put off my it if it were a heat of the moment strongly held belief, but to then immediately start selling shirts with your pet phrase just feels icky. She just doesn't feel authentic to me at all.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by hepcat » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:24 pm

The more I think about it, the less I like Harris. It was definitely planned and then exploited by her or her people. Biden may be many things, but a segregationist he is not.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Kraken » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:36 pm

Those t shirts show that what looked spontaneous and genuine was actually scripted. I don't like being hoodwinked. She'd have gotten away with it, too, if she had waited 2-3 days to sell the shirts.

I'm not anti-Harris (yet), but now I'm wary of her, and she's no longer threatening to eclipse Warren in my estimation.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Holman » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:52 pm

Just checking: are we sure the shirts weren't whipped up right *after* the debate?

Print-on-demand T-shirts are definitely a thing. I just bought two of them (DUNE and FIREFLY), and I had to wait three or four days for them to be printed before they shipped.

It seems possible, anyway.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Isgrimnur » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:11 pm

The picture shows wrinkles in the shirt, none in the shirt artwork. And the shipping date is July 11th.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Holman » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:37 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:11 pm
The picture shows wrinkles in the shirt, none in the shirt artwork. And the shipping date is July 11th.
Yeah, I just did some looking. The images I see are very clearly a separate photo image overlayed on a (wrinkled) t-shirt image.

This is print-on-demand. Her team probably designed it the night after the debate.

EDIT: This is the new normal. I remember being surprised when "She Was Warned... Nevertheless, She Persisted" T-shirts were touted 12 hours after McConnell made that comment.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by hepcat » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:51 pm

To me, timing is irrelevant. It’s just sleazy.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by Smoove_B » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:56 pm

hepcat wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:51 pm
It’s just sleazy.
So she is fit then for the office of the President? :wink:

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, part 2

Post by hepcat » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:58 pm

If we are currently okay with the way things are, sure.
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