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Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

For discussion of religion and politics

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Who do you like best now?

Joe Biden
2
5%
Corey Booker
0
No votes
Pete Buttigeig
7
18%
Julian Castro
0
No votes
Kirsten Gillibrand
0
No votes
Kamala Harris
12
31%
Beto O'Rourke
0
No votes
Bernie Sanders
2
5%
Elizabeth Warren
15
38%
Andrew Yang
1
3%
 
Total votes: 39

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Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Kraken » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:47 pm

This is everyone who got more than 1 vote in the pre-debate polls (plus Castro because I had one slot left and many think he did better than expected).

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Holman » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:59 pm

I couldn't decide between Harris and Warren.

Finally I went Harris because I think she will have better chops on the campaign trail.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Kraken » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:07 pm

Although I stuck with Warren, I'd be pleased with either one. I'm curious why you think Harris would be the better candidate. Being black AND female is a double whammy outside of the D base.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:39 pm

I wish OO polls would allow ranked voting! Went with Warren, but Harris is close second. After that things get murkier.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Holman » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:17 pm

Kraken wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:07 pm
Although I stuck with Warren, I'd be pleased with either one. I'm curious why you think Harris would be the better candidate. Being black AND female is a double whammy outside of the D base.
I'm going on the sense that Harris has more tough-as-nails gravitas.

As much as I love Warren, she often seems more like a professor than a politician. There's no visible doubt that Harris is a politician who's ready to do the whole job, including the ugly parts.

If we're talking about people who'll balk at a female POC, I think Warren and Harris face the same obstacle. Warren's whiteness won't save her with those folks, especially when (after Sanders leaves the race) she'll be positioned as the candidate farthest Left.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Defiant » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:54 pm

Kraken wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:07 pm
Although I stuck with Warren, I'd be pleased with either one. I'm curious why you think Harris would be the better candidate. Being black AND female is a double whammy outside of the D base.
My own 2 cents:
1. It would likely increase turnout among Democratic-leaning black and female voters. (and honestly, I think Democrat-leaners are OK voting for some black at this point. See: Obama, Barack).

2. Warren didn't do a good job responding to Trump regarding the whole Native American thing.

3. Both are very liberal, but Warren would be easier to swiftboat as a "socialist" and out of the mainstream.

4. Harris comes off as more forceful and passionate (in a campaign setting, at any rate).

5. Anyone youthful would make for a good contrast to Trump.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by hepcat » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:09 pm

Harris lost the ground she gained with me by pulling a Trumpian move and immediately selling t shirts capitalizing on her 5 minutes of fame segregation speech.. She obviously had these ready to go before the debate. :hand:
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:50 pm

Yuck.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:02 pm

Oh yeah, hawking t-shirts referencing a comment that Joe Biden made last week is definitely is below the office of a future President - don't want to lower the bar at all. :lol:

I'm glad others are warming up to Harris. Just just has something - still haven't put my finger on it yet - that makes me believe she'd be an excellent President.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Kraken » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:03 pm

My radio told me that with 18 million viewers, the second night was the most-watched Dem debate ever. Coming this far before an election, that bodes well for people's level of interest and engagement.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by hepcat » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:18 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:02 pm
Oh yeah, hawking t-shirts referencing a comment that Joe Biden made last week is definitely is below the office of a future President - don't want to lower the bar at all. :lol:
I did say it was a Trumpian move. I didn’t say she was lowering the bar. But it would be nice if she tried to move it up a notch.

Also, she’s referencing the debate, I believe. This was churned out in order to monopolize on that.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:22 pm

All of the Democrats could come out in diapers and they'd be more dignified (and more qualified) than our current President, that's all I'm saying.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by hepcat » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:25 pm

But allow some of us to hold out hope they don’t. That’s all I’m saying.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by em2nought » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:13 am

You left somebody off of this poll. :ninja: The only being who is running who didn't indicate that he would raise taxes in order to give illegal immigrants free health insurance. :wink:
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by hepcat » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:40 am

Obama isn't running this time around. No matter how much you keep whining that he should have a third term. I know you're still pissed that Trump keeps trying to claim Obama's victories as his own, but you need to let it go, man. Rules are rules.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by $iljanus » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:56 pm

So the next debate in July will have the same threshold for participation and we’ll be seeing the same 20 candidates. As entertaining as that was the first time it was a bit like a clown car at times. The third debate has more stringent requirements and there are eight familiar candidates which qualify as of now. I wish the DNC had tightened up the requirements after the first debate.

Oh to stay on topic, I picked Warren.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Kraken » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:20 pm

I did not know that -- I thought the qualifications went up next time. If it's really the whole herd again, they had better mix up the rosters or I will not be watching.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by $iljanus » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:28 pm

Kraken wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:20 pm
I did not know that -- I thought the qualifications went up next time. If it's really the whole herd again, they had better mix up the rosters or I will not be watching.
Vox broke down the qualifications quite nicely:

Everything you wanted to know about the Democratic debates!
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Fireball » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:08 am

I’m still with Warren, and Harris remains my close second choice. I want them and Biden in a debate together.

Criticizing Harris for seeing a weakness in Biden, making a plan to use it to her advantage, executing the plan perfectly and then being ready with reminders of her strength against Biden seems ludicrous to me.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by gbasden » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:48 am

Fireball wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:08 am
I’m still with Warren, and Harris remains my close second choice. I want them and Biden in a debate together.

Criticizing Harris for seeing a weakness in Biden, making a plan to use it to her advantage, executing the plan perfectly and then being ready with reminders of her strength against Biden seems ludicrous to me.
I don't think favoring one qualified candidate over another because of a dislike over how they behave is ludicrous. People do it all the time. I think Warren, besides being better prepared, also managed to advance her interests without tearing down other Democrats. That's not so say that I won't vote for Harris if she gets the nomination - I'll vote for anyone on that stage over the orange abomination. But Harris still rubs me the wrong way and I have every right to take that into account as I vote in the primary.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Kurth » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:08 am

Fireball wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:08 am
I’m still with Warren, and Harris remains my close second choice. I want them and Biden in a debate together.

Criticizing Harris for seeing a weakness in Biden, making a plan to use it to her advantage, executing the plan perfectly and then being ready with reminders of her strength against Biden seems ludicrous to me.
It was a terribly cheap and dishonest shot. Really made me think less of her. The bussing thing is fair game, but doesn’t really have much substance behind it and was really only the tail. Her attack was about exploiting Biden’s recent comments at the fundraiser about seeking common ground, even with those who hold fundamental views diametrically opposed to your own:
The California senator confronted former vice president Joe Biden on Thursday night for his “civil” relationship with late senators James Eastland and Herman Talmadge, who were both segregationists. “Well guess what? At least there was some civility,” Biden reportedly said last week of his working relationship with the men. “We got things done. We didn’t agree on much of anything. We got things done. We got it finished. But today, you look at the other side and you’re the enemy. Not the opposition, the enemy. We don’t talk to each other anymore.”
Hurtful? What a load of BS. If you’re buying that, I’ve gotta nice T-shirt to sell you.

I’m sure it played well, though, to those on the left eager to punch some Nazis (or pro-lifers, or anti-gun controllers, or pro-rich folks, etc.) in the face.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Fireball » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:20 am

Kurth wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:08 am
Fireball wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:08 am
I’m still with Warren, and Harris remains my close second choice. I want them and Biden in a debate together.

Criticizing Harris for seeing a weakness in Biden, making a plan to use it to her advantage, executing the plan perfectly and then being ready with reminders of her strength against Biden seems ludicrous to me.
It was a terribly cheap and dishonest shot.
No it wasn’t. It was 100% accurate and fair. She gave Biden an out, a chance to admit that he was wrong on busing and to apologize for holding up his work with segregationists as something laudable. He refused.

Joe Biden is very bad at running for President, and as time has gone on he has gotten worse. His instincts are old, and his references are out of touch. He wanted to stupidly pine for the never-coming-back-days when bipartisan work was possible. That’s fine. There are any number of examples in his decades-long career that Biden could have cited regarding working across the aisle. Instead, he cites the "civility" he received from fellow Democrats, the racist segregationists Eastland and Talmadge.

In using this example, Biden both shows that he doesn't understand how politics has changed and how he doesn't understand what civility amongst white people meant in the early 1970s. To have a "civil" relationship with Eastland was to have a relationship where you didn't challenge his violent hatred of black people — it's literally a relationship where you set aside the oppression of millions in order for two white men to get along better. It treats African-American suffering as something that can be ignored as opposed to a great moral failing that should have overridden all other concerns.

Worse, the "civil relationship" Biden had with Eastland was based upon the fact that they both opposed busing — Biden won his first election promising white voters that there wouldn't be so many black kids bused into town to go to school with their kids. That’s a racist appeal for votes, pure and simple.

Finally, he topped it off by referencing that Eastland called Biden "son," but never called him "boy". Which is just an "oh my God what the fuck" sort of thing to say — of course Eastland didn't call Biden "boy". That was a slur Southern racists reserved to denigrate adult black men.

So Biden picked an example that wasn't actually about bipartisanship, told a story about civility that was actually about ignoring the oppression of black people, and topped it off with a tone-deaf comment that indicates that he doesn't even realize that "boy" was a racial slur.

That's bad. That's five-alarm fire bad. Biden needs to do better. He needs to be more sensitive. He needs to understand how he was wrong in the past and even if he won't apologize for it he shouldn't hold it up as laudable. And if he can't do those things he needs to go away. The other Democratic candidates are doing the party a service when they confront Biden on this. If we go into the general election with someone this bad at such easy questions, we’re fucking doomed.
I’m sure it played well, though, to those on the left eager to punch some Nazis (or pro-lifers, or anti-gun controllers, or pro-rich folks, etc.) in the face.
I don’t want to punch rich people in the face. But Biden’s comments are a huge problem because they make it clear that he just doesn’t get it. He can’t see beyond his own experience. And his experience is completely out of step with modern reality. If he had told a little anecdote about working with Bob Dole to extend the Voting Rights Act for 25 years, that would have actually made the point he was actually trying to make. In fact, that’s what his staff begged him to do. Instead he “went with his gut” and told a story that didn’t make the point he was trying to make and instead planted himself on a land mine. He needs to stop sucking at running for president, or stop running for president. I support all efforts to get him to do either.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Kurth » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:41 am

Fireball wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:20 am
I don’t want to punch rich people in the face. But Biden’s comments are a huge problem because they make it clear that he just doesn’t get it. He can’t see beyond his own experience. And his experience is completely out of step with modern reality. If he had told a little anecdote about working with Bob Dole to extend the Voting Rights Act for 25 years, that would have actually made the point he was actually trying to make. In fact, that’s what his staff begged him to do. Instead he “went with his gut” and told a story that didn’t make the point he was trying to make and instead planted himself on a land mine. He needs to stop sucking at running for president, or stop running for president. I support all efforts to get him to do either.
I disagree with a lot of your response. Biden’s anecdote doesn’t work for what he’s trying to convey if the opposing viewpoint is held by Bob Dole. The whole point is that people are quick to see the other side as the enemy today, and that has killed bipartisanship. Biden was saying that even when those on the other side hold views you find truly loathsome, our system can’t work if you can’t find a way to work across the aisle. Bob Dole was a lot of things, but I don’t know too many people back in the day who found him to be truly loathsome.

That said, I agree with you that this was terrible politics by Biden and his campaign. After the attacks on his comments at the fundraiser, he should halve been prepped and ready to respond to the attack he had to know was coming. The fact that he seemed taken aback and unprepared, and his defense was a 5 on a 10 scale (at best) means he needs to get his shit in order quickly.

Bad politics by Biden, and I suppose looking at this strictly from the lens of political campaign tactics, a smart move by Harris to exploit it. But not a move showing a lot of character or integrity on her part.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Fireball » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:57 am

There is nothing lacking in character or integrity for taking another candidate to task for saying something objectionable.

Biden didn’t work “with the other side” and find common ground for the broader good when he worked with the segregationists in the Senate. He worked with them because Biden, while not a racist, was elected on a promise to pass a bill based on racial fears and prejudice. Of course he found willing partners in men like Eastland to keep black kids out of white schools; Biden and Eastland shared the same malign goal in that argument.

Biden was on the wrong side of the busing issue, and a woman of color who has achieved success in her life because busing provided her opportunities she otherwise would have lacked has a right to call Biden out on it.

The fact that Biden thinks it’s cute that Eastland “never called me ‘boy’” is just the rotten cherry on top.
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Alefroth » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:15 pm

Fireball wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:08 am
I’m still with Warren, and Harris remains my close second choice. I want them and Biden in a debate together.

Criticizing Harris for seeing a weakness in Biden, making a plan to use it to her advantage, executing the plan perfectly and then being ready with reminders of her strength against Biden seems ludicrous to me.
People that don't want to like Harris are finding their excuses.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by rittchard » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:27 pm

Late to the party but here's my review of Debate Night 2.

While it seems the census is that Harris "won," I'm a little skeptical. She certainly made the biggest splash with her confrontation with Biden, but it felt a little calculated to me. I'm not doubting there's emotional depth behind it, but it came across to me like a well-rehearsed showpiece, especially since they had the pictures of her as a little girl ready to go on Instagram. I don't think she expected it to work as well as it did, as he just seemed really unprepared, annoyed and flustered. Frankly if I was a negative campaigner I'd be cycling a gif of him saying "My time's up" on auto-repeat. But does anyone really think that weepy-eyed emotion is going to work in a debate against Trump, because I thought the big thing with her was people thinking she'd be tough against him? All that said, I did come across liking her more than I had in the past. And since I'm superficial, I have to say she looked really good too, whoever did her makeup should get an award lol.

Not a surprise, but I thought Pete did great all things considered; I just wish he had a little more time. He was certainly the most mature and professional of everyone, even more remarkable as the youngest and supposedly least experienced amongst them. I don't think he tried to talk over or shout even once, and he only ran over time very very briefly. He got in some of his traditional stump stuff, a couple of nice quote pieces, answered directly and honestly, and gave a fantastic death stare to SwallowsWell. But the problem with being a nice guy is that it's easy to get overshadowed. I really want to see him in a smaller format debate with maybe like 4-6 of them. That's when things should really get good. Anyway, if this was his first introduction for many people, I think he made a good impression to build upon.

Let's see, what else do I remember? Biden was OK, except unfortunately for him he had the most to lose and people seem to remember the bad parts more than the good. Bernie was Bernie, I felt like he was exactly the same as he was 4 years ago. Just a personal preference for me, but his voice/accent grates on my nerves, so his shtick is just not ever going to work for me. Sorry to Bernie fans, but I just wish he'd drop out if he's going to run the exact same campaign that he lost with before. Sadly I don't remember too much of the others. That one blond lady seemed like she had a good record but her incessant interruptions just annoyed the crap out of me. I could say meaner things about her but I won't. The crazy "love" lady was actually more entertaining and I kind of felt sorry for her. Yang may have some nice ideas but he has zero charisma. Sorry, and this is coming from a Chinese person, but if you want to compete as a minority amongst minorities, you are going to have to have something really special. Instead he just comes across as the cliche math nerd who everyone turns to when they can't figure out their calculus homework. Or maybe I'm projecting. And for Pete's sake wear a freaking tie, you look like a 90's lounge lizard! SwallowsWell was like an impetuous whiny little kid with his incessant "pass the torch" comments, yapping about his baby and his cheap shots at Mayor Pete, too bad because I thought he was kind of hot before. Please just drop out and focus on changing some more diapers. The good thing is he just made Pete look that much better in contrast. In retrospect I have to feel a little bad for the guy. He thinks he has the youth thing going, he has student debt, he's handsome... and then along comes someone else and 1 ups him on everything. Better looking, smarter, more debt, and a year younger lol. Jealousy is not a good look. I think I'm missing two more but I don't remember who so that doesn't say much for them I guess. Probably some older ugly generic white dudes? I'm stalling to remember, gah.

And that's it. Bill Maher did a cute skit eliminating 10 of the candidates straight up. I'd actually dump a few more and go with maybe 6. The core 4 from Night 2, Warren and maybe one more from Night 1. Personally I'd take Klobuchar but others may have a different favorite like Booker or Castro.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Defiant » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:29 pm

rittchard wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:27 pm
I think I'm missing two more but I don't remember who so that doesn't say much for them I guess. Probably some older ugly generic white dudes? I'm stalling to remember, gah.
Hickenlooper and Bennet (both from Colorado). Hickenlooper was ok if generic. Bennet seemed ok as well, but didn't perform well. I though maybe he was poor at public speaking, but he was fine when I saw him being interviewed afterwards, so maybe he was just uncomfortable with the debate format.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Fireball » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:29 pm

Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Smoove_B » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:11 pm

Sanders at 14% is mind boggling. He's going to clog this all up again, isn't he?

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Combustible Lemur » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:38 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Fireball wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:08 am
I’m still with Warren, and Harris remains my close second choice. I want them and Biden in a debate together.

Criticizing Harris for seeing a weakness in Biden, making a plan to use it to her advantage, executing the plan perfectly and then being ready with reminders of her strength against Biden seems ludicrous to me.
People that don't want to like Harris are finding their excuses.
Nonsense.

I've liked Harris for several years now. She's my #2 pick behind Warren and in some ways I think she's a stronger character.

Her moment felt contrived and suspect. And it's not about Biden being right. He's a dumpster fire right now.
She's a professional prosecutor/politician. Everything I've learned second hand about prosecutors is to not trust them. There's no way Harris didn't know the nuance of Biden's position. She chose to frame it to make him look worse.
Granted, she gave him an out with apologies, but when his dumbass didn't take it she prosecuted the case.
Hurtful? Bullshit. Her old job was literally to put her emotions aside and make deals with criminals (what percentage of which are young black and brown boys and girls that she's all tearful about? ) , more than a few of which are gratuitous racists. She's deftly navigated an old boys club to a position of power a stone's throw from the presidency.

She's still my number 2. But last week she was an outsider climbing the ranks whose power was in honesty and freshness. Today she's an establishment player willing to politician her audience.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Holman » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:43 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:11 pm
Sanders at 14% is mind boggling. He's going to clog this all up again, isn't he?
Naw. He'll fade further as people realize that Warren is the realistic economic reformer who can actually get shit done. Polls are already showing him falling behind with the kids, and the kids are his base. Sanders has hit his ceiling, and it's lowering every week.

It's too early to call, but I can't help thinking it's already a choice between Biden/Harris and Biden/Warren. Biden had better get his goddamn shit in order.
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Defiant
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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Defiant » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:44 pm

I assumed Alefroth was referring to the online birtherism-like "Harris isn't black enough" attacks against Harris.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Unagi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:51 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:38 pm
I've liked Harris for several years now. She's my #2 pick behind Warren and in some ways I think she's a stronger character.
So, in many ways: me too.

But I have serious concerns that Harris is to female and too not white to risk this time. Tell me I am being an idiot and this isn't a thing.

Honestly, I just need for America to show us that it isn't full of hate - and I don't like to think what a Harris ticket would show me.

A Biden/Harris ticket may be what I most want at this point.

A Harris/Warren - Warren/Harris ticket --- if I could force it on America: I'd love that.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Unagi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:53 pm

And I'll add that Sander's closing statements about having the guts to take on X,Y,Z was great - just 100% accurate and needed to be said and repeated - but he's not going to be the guy that gets it done. Some day, I'm prepared to tell people about the critical role he played, but he just isn't going to be the guy.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Combustible Lemur » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:06 pm

Defiant wrote:I assumed Alefroth was referring to the online birtherism-like "Harris isn't black enough" attacks against Harris.
Fair. Fuck those people/Russian bots.
I was thinking of all the progressives hand ringing over which progressive candidate is going to progress their progression in the most progress promoting process.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Alefroth » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:11 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:38 pm
She's still my number 2. But last week she was an outsider climbing the ranks whose power was in honesty and freshness. Today she's an establishment player willing to politician her audience.
We see it differently, I guess. It sure didn't take much to completely change your opinion of her.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Combustible Lemur » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:14 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Combustible Lemur wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:38 pm
She's still my number 2. But last week she was an outsider climbing the ranks whose power was in honesty and freshness. Today she's an establishment player willing to politician her audience.
We see it differently, I guess. It sure didn't take much to completely change your opinion of her.
It didn't really change my opinion of her much as I stated twice in my post. What it did was openly display what I think are the things that, while they make her a good politician, don't make her a change candidate.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Fireball » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:18 pm

The incumbent is the single worst human being in America, a racist gasbag who destroys everything he touches. Of course she’s a change candidate.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Jeff V » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:28 pm

Mayor Pete is running up some domestic baggage at home, and I lost confidence in his ability to be the next Barack Obama in terms of a quick rise from relative obscurity. I like Harris (and switched to her for the moment) but she needs to put herself above petty disagreements with other members of the party. Act like you belong there, like you are the leader and show us how you're going to take down the Great Orange Whale, Madam Ahab.

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Re: Flash poll: Debates edition, aftermath

Post by Fireball » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:07 am

The entire point of cutting Biden open, ripping out his entrails and dancing on them at the debate was to showcase the rhetorical skill and strategic thinking she could use against Trump. She caught Biden unaware this time. For both of them, and Warren, the later debates will show how they can learn, adapt and advance.

Right now, Harris is the only major candidate who has shown she can throw a truly devastating punch at a target who it’s not entirely safe to tangle with. That was a wise strategic decision, and likely one that Warren would have tried to pull off had she been in the debate with Biden.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)

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