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The Trump Impeachment Thread

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The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

NBC News
Rep. Al Green, D-Texas, read the following on the House floor Tuesday night.

Madam speaker, pursuant to clause 2-a-1 of rule 9, I rise to give notice of my intention to raise a question of the privileges of the House, the form of the resolution is as follows. Impeaching Donald John Trump, President of the United States of high misdemeanor, resolved that Donald John Trump, President of the United States, is unfit to be president, unfit to represent the American values of decency and morality, respectability and civility, honesty and propriety, reputability and integrity.
...
Therefore, Donald John Trump, by causing such harm to the society of the United States, is unfit to be president and warrants impeachment, trial and removal from office.

Editor's note: No vote was held on this measure Tuesday night.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Second measure of cajones.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Zarathud »

Not a well articulated articles of impeachment.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Yeah, Green's impeachment efforts will go nowhere.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Jumping to impeachment without an impeachment investigation is terrible.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by pr0ner »

Holman wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:01 am Jumping to impeachment without an impeachment investigation is terrible.
I don't think this is the first time Green has tried to bring impeachment to the House floor, either.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by LordMortis »

Holman wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:01 am Jumping to impeachment without an impeachment investigation is terrible.
I'm not smart or learned enough to know these things but from the ignorant side, I concur. Impeachment seems like it should be the right call but not without laying out evidence, ie summarizing an investigation.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Holman wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:01 am Jumping to impeachment without an impeachment investigation is terrible.
Nancy Pelosi agrees with you.
The House on Wednesday voted to kill an impeachment resolution against President Trump, a move likely to rankle the Democratic Party’s liberal base clamoring for the ouster of the president.

The vote was 332-to-95 as House Democratic leaders joined with Republicans to stop the measure. It was a surprising turn and created the unusual optic of Democrats working with the GOP a day after a divided House voted to condemn Trump’s racist remarks.

Rep. Al Green (D-Tex.) had put Democratic leaders in a bind Tuesday night by filing articles of impeachment accusing Trump of committing high crimes and misdemeanors. His resolution, which cited Trump’s racist comments singling out four minority congresswomen, was privileged, requiring that the House act within two days.

“It’s time for us to deal with his bigotry. This president has demonstrated that he’s willing to yell fire in a crowded theater, and we have seen what can happen to people when bigotry is allowed to have a free rein,” Green told reporters Wednesday. “We all ought to go on record. We all ought to let the world know where we stand when we have a bigot in the White House.”

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), who has been reluctant to launch an impeachment inquiry, favored a procedural vote to table, or effectively kill, the resolution, avoiding a direct vote on the impeachment articles. Republicans supported Pelosi’s effort, receiving the sign-off from the White House, according a Republican congressional aide who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private talks.

“With all the respect in the world for Mr. Green … we have six committees who are working on following the facts in terms of any abuse of power, obstruction of justice and the rest that the president may have engaged in,” Pelosi told reporters when asked about Green’s efforts. “That is the serious path that we are on — not that Mr. Green is not serious, but we will deal with that on the floor.”
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by malchior »

This one was a huge miss. It is already headlines and a tweet from the President claiming vindication. This is nothing less than a completely disorganized response to Trump's attacks on multiple institutions. The caucus is starting to act out. Pelosi is admittedly in a terrible position stuck between progressives and the centrists but it shouldn't be all on her. They need a game plan that doesn't rely on reacting to whatever garbage Trump throws at them to keep them occupied.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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This is why Trump is stalling all investigations. Democrats need to be hitting the “coverup” and “incompetence” and “unethical corruption” drums long and loud.

Racism and immoral are terrible, but that’s not going to be enough. Trump won because enough people didn’t care. Find something they do care about. Raise those issues often.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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So that they become even more white noise? Because let’s face it, that’s what happens. Trump plays the victim card whenever he can too...which is always.

Concentrate on 2020, not tomorrow.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Why is Nadler using the language of impeachment?

Was he teeing up the Mueller hearings this week or is it just the usual Democratic messaging incoherence. Guess we will see.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Impeachment is dead. Just two more Democrats signed up for impeachment after the hearings, momentum is totally dead. I don't know what Democrats were expecting from the Mueller testimony but the overall vibe I'm getting from the press if that it was a disaster. Time to focus on the 2020 election and stop wasting time/effort on something that was never going to remove Trump from office in the end anyway.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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The Democrats weren't going to go for impeachment unless they were guaranteed a win. Ugh.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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pr0ner wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:08 am The Democrats weren't going to go for impeachment unless they were guaranteed a win. Ugh.
I would reverse that and say they weren't going to go for impeachment so long as they were guaranteed a loss.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Grifman wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:58 am Impeachment is dead. Just two more Democrats signed up for impeachment after the hearings, momentum is totally dead. I don't know what Democrats were expecting from the Mueller testimony but the overall vibe I'm getting from the press if that it was a disaster. Time to focus on the 2020 election and stop wasting time/effort on something that was never going to remove Trump from office in the end anyway.
Impeachment proceedings have never been about removing Trump from office. It's been about exploring and informing the public about the... misdeeds... of the president and his allies.

You are right though. The narrative since the testimony is that it was a disaster for Dems. I do not agree with that assessment, but that's what the rubes are hearing. And as you said in another thread, perception is reality.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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And with that, any semblance of Congressional oversight of the executive branch is forever dead. Long live the King.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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YellowKing wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:17 am And with that, any semblance of Congressional oversight of the executive branch is forever dead. Long live the King.
Well, at least the el Presidente hasn't openly talked about staying past his term limits and claiming that the Constitution allows him to do whatever he wants. That would be really terrifying.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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msteelers wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:22 amWell, at least the el Presidente hasn't openly talked about staying past his term limits and claiming that the Constitution allows him to do whatever he wants. That would be really terrifying.
Or using active military troops as guards.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Being the eyes of the panopticon is totally in line with the military's job.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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YellowKing wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:17 am And with that, any semblance of Congressional oversight of the executive branch is forever dead. Long live the King.
It's very hard to have oversight when one branch of Congress is actively protecting and colluding with the President.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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msteelers wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:16 am Impeachment proceedings have never been about removing Trump from office. It's been about exploring and informing the public about the... misdeeds... of the president and his allies.
About that and about a loud, public, on-the-record repudiation of the President and his actions by the government of the United States.

We have chosen to let the President of the United States be openly, proudly criminal and corrupt, and did so without saying a single word as a nation.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Blackhawk wrote:
msteelers wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:16 am Impeachment proceedings have never been about removing Trump from office. It's been about exploring and informing the public about the... misdeeds... of the president and his allies.
About that and about a loud, public, on-the-record repudiation of the President and his actions by the government of the United States.

We have chosen to let the President of the United States be openly, proudly criminal and corrupt, and did so without saying a single word as a nation.
I would argue 2018 and the numerous demonstrations since 2016 have been more than a single word. But the Pelosi’s of the world have prevented any actual actions from being taken.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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I was referring to the United States as an entity. The government, the law, the system, however you want to look at it. Yes, the public was loud, but they were almost as loud about Obama.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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msteelers wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:12 am But the Mitch McConnell's of the world have prevented any actual actions from being taken.
Fixed that for you.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Mitch might be preventing it from being successful, but he's not stopping them from trying. Apparently we can only do things that are a guaranteed win at this point in our government system. Political science majors can tell me the Latin name for that type of system.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Obstructus Dickus?

Doucheus Bagus?
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:55 am Mitch might be preventing it from being successful, but he's not stopping them from trying.
Totally agree. Just frustrating that the media and a lot of talking heads gloss over the fact that the ultimate reason we're debating impeachment at all is that Republicans in the Senate have decided they'd rather work the Russians to protect Drumpf than hold him accountable.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Holman »

I'm unable to do a lot of checking right now, but am I right in seeing the House Judiciary Committee's press conference today as basically the soft launch of an impeachment inquiry?

They're issuing a subpoena for Mueller's grand jury records.
Despite assertions to the contrary by the president and his allies, the special counsel’s report and testimony are not the end of our investigations. We have now filed a petition in court to obtain the grand-jury documents referenced in the special counsel’s report. In that filing, we have made clear that we will utilize our Article I powers to obtain the additional underlying evidence, as well as enforce subpoenas for key witness testimony, and broaden our investigations to include conflicts of interest and financial misconduct.

While many people believe that beginning an impeachment investigation can begin only with a vote of the full House of Representatives, this is not true. Article I authorizes the House Judiciary Committee to begin this process.

As members of the House Judiciary Committee, we understand the gravity of this moment that we find ourselves in. We wake up every morning with the understanding of the oath that binds us as members of Congress, and the trust that our constituents placed in us to uphold that oath. We will move forward with the impeachment process. Our investigation will seriously examine all the evidence as we consider whether to bring articles of impeachment or other remedies under our Article I powers.

Our Constitution requires it. Our democracy depends on it.
I'm hearing that Pelosi is actually giving the nod to this move as well.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Forget Trump enriching himself on the taxpayer dime, campaign finance violations, or any other of the countless things Trump's done to warrant impeachment.

I think the single biggest thing he and the GOP need to be accountable for is their utter unwillingness to do anything about proven election tampering from the Russian government. It literally cuts to the heart of our democracy, and at best they're not lifting a finger and at worst denying it's even happening.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Grifman wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:58 am Impeachment is dead. Just two more Democrats signed up for impeachment after the hearings, momentum is totally dead. I don't know what Democrats were expecting from the Mueller testimony but the overall vibe I'm getting from the press if that it was a disaster.
It was only a disaster in the sense that the media declared it so because they didn't get their "movie" moments. They all said the optics were Mueller looked tired and we learned nothing new. The media is the true disaster. They have learned absolutely nothing from their failure in 2016. It isn't surprising but they are just another piece of the puzzle that explains why our nation is a basket case.
Holman wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:30 pmI'm hearing that Pelosi is actually giving the nod to this move as well.
So what? The DOJ will not act on the sub poena and it'll end up tied up in the courts again. Maybe they'll send another contempt citation over to Barr so he can ignore that too. That is another reason to open an inquiry. Unless they start winning in court soon they will have lost so much momentum to the legal process.
YellowKing wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:24 pm Forget Trump enriching himself on the taxpayer dime, campaign finance violations, or any other of the countless things Trump's done to warrant impeachment.

I think the single biggest thing he and the GOP need to be accountable for is their utter unwillingness to do anything about proven election tampering from the Russian government. It literally cuts to the heart of our democracy, and at best they're not lifting a finger and at worst denying it's even happening.
I think it is point of all this. They not only suppress the vote. They depress the vote. The Republicans have set up this system so that people don't believe their vote matters and don't bother. It isn't hard to empathize with it but the outcome is that people don't show up and allow an entrenched minority to govern the nation. And even if they do show up they possibly get a Democrat President who will be obstructed at every turn and will be unable to govern except by the regulatory process and executive orders like Obama was forced to.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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malchior wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:39 am
Grifman wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:58 am Impeachment is dead. Just two more Democrats signed up for impeachment after the hearings, momentum is totally dead. I don't know what Democrats were expecting from the Mueller testimony but the overall vibe I'm getting from the press if that it was a disaster.
It was only a disaster in the sense that the media declared it so because they didn't get their "movie" moments. They all said the optics were Mueller looked tired and we learned nothing new. The media is the true disaster. They have learned absolutely nothing from their failure in 2016. It isn't surprising but they are just another piece of the puzzle that explains why our nation is a basket case.
That sounds dangerously close to a Trump narrative when he hears/reads something he doesn't like. Just because you don't agree with something the press says, doesn't mean it's wrong. The majority of reporters covering the Mueller testimony reported similar sentiments. It just wasn't very good...for either side. The Dems got nothing out of it beyond a few sound bites that won't matter much; and the republicans didn't find a smoking gun on the source of the report, or a definitive statement that Trump wasn't guilty of obstruction.

Mueller played it close to the vest, stuck to his script as outlined in his report, and didn't perform for either side in the way they wanted.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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hepcat wrote:That sounds dangerously close to a Trump narrative when he hears/reads something he doesn't like. Just because you don't agree with something the press says, doesn't mean it's wrong. The majority of reporters covering the Mueller testimony reported similar sentiments.
Oh please. This is a terrible take. This is very far from #fakenews. This is a critique on how they constantly play the horse race narrative.
It just wasn't very good...for either side. The Dems got nothing out of it beyond a few sound bites that won't matter much; and the republicans didn't find a smoking gun on the source of the report, or a definitive statement that Trump wasn't guilty of obstruction.
This is the problem. Looking for a winner. The only reason they had to try to drag Mueller in is because the media failed to inform the public in the first place. As usual. They focused on the Barr narratives, bothsideism arguments, and generally failed at pushing back against propaganda.
Mueller played it close to the vest, stuck to his script as outlined in his report, and didn't perform for either side in the way they wanted.
That was the dumb part on the Dems part. This is why they cant win the messaging war. They haven't figured out how to play the media or learn how to craft a message that sticks. Keep in mind the anti-Mueller arguments started in the RNC war room. They showed they can outplay the Dems *every time*.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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malchior wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:43 am Oh please. This is a terrible take. This is very far from #fakenews. This is a critique on how they constantly play the horse race narrative.
So you would have been equally displeased had the reports all been overwhelmingly positive for Dems?
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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I'm a liberal and didn't vote for Trump, and I think this impeachment thing is a big mistake. Part of the reason he got elected is that a lot of people felt like there was an attempt to force people to accept Hilary Clinton as President. The 'fix' was in, that's what they thought. So the wacky outsider(Trump) got a lot of mileage out of playing the part of the candidate for people who wanted to resist being forced to accept the chosen one.

He's been President for almost his entire first term now. I think the time has long passed for stuff like impeachment. Either they had something on him, in which case this should have been dealt with long ago, or the truth is they don't really have anything and they are just doing this to annoy him. The problem is that the harder Democrats push this, the worse they look. It gives the impression they are still trying to force their choices on people.

I say they should drop all this impeachment stuff immediately and focus on winning the election.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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gameoverman wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:13 pm Either they had something on him, in which case this should have been dealt with long ago, or the truth is they don't really have anything and they are just doing this to annoy him.
They weren't in a position to do anything until the D House majority was seated in January. I'm still on the fence about impeachment; both sides have strong arguments. Just wanted to point out that the Dems couldn't deal with it long ago.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Kraken wrote:
gameoverman wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:13 pm Either they had something on him, in which case this should have been dealt with long ago, or the truth is they don't really have anything and they are just doing this to annoy him.
They weren't in a position to do anything until the D House majority was seated in January. I'm still on the fence about impeachment; both sides have strong arguments. Just wanted to point out that the Dems couldn't deal with it long ago.
Pull the trigger. At its most simple,
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Except it's the exact opposite of all those things.
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