The Trump Impeachment Thread

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:30 pm

Exactly that. It's a power struggle between tribes. Winning is everything, by any possible means. Each side believes the other is destroying democracy.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:13 am

Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:30 pm Exactly that. It's a power struggle between tribes. Winning is everything, by any possible means. Each side believes the other is destroying democracy.

Yeah but the GOP are the only ones actually attempting to actually do it since they are the ones at risk of political collapse.

In other news, word is that Jim Jordan at least and possibly others are going to start dropping the whistle blowers name during questioning. It probably will be without context as the whistle blower. It'll be something along the lines of, "Did you talk to so and so?" The plan is allegedly to get their name into the media since the MSM to their credit have made it their job to firewall the story inside white nationalist news. If you watch today, and start hearing a name over and over that you've probably never heard before that is what is happening. I don't expect anything less but there is a good chance that they will try to do this to provoke a food fight. They want to undercut the proceedings badly. Get ready - this is almost certainly going to be a total shit show with an audience of one for many.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:55 am

Where is Spartacus when you need him?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:04 am

This is how today is going to go - the GOP message will be it is a deep state conspiracy all the way down. For some context, this is one of the whistle blower's lawyer.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:15 am

Spoiler:

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:24 am

Nunes comes out in his opening statement flailing like a unleashed monster out of the gates with the least-est hits of Republican whining we've heard all about before. The thrust is that the Democrats are untrustworthy and this process is a sham. He demanded they answer 3 questions which are essentially all conspiracy theories. The message is clear the GOP are all about Inflicting maximum damage to the process and our Democracy. This is abysmal. To be expected.

(All paraphrased)

Overturning the election

Democrats excluded Republicans

Cult like setting w/ Secret depositions

Democrats have no credibility and ... this is preposterous

They hid the whistle blower from the American people <-- really!?!

Edit: The GOP has so far prevented testimony with several parliamentary inquiries about the whistle blower. But Schiff adeptly knocked them down. And here we go with the introductions.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:47 am

I am really impressed by George Kent. He is going out of his way in his statement to contextualize how shitty Trump's pressure on this aide was. He compared Ukraine's response to Russian aggression to the minutemen and how our aide was key to shoring up their defenses. He actually prepared 10 key takeaways from his testimony and talked through them. He is everything that we should expect out of our career diplomats. I can't wait to see the Republicans bombard him with derp. I don't think it'll go well for them.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:53 am

AND he's still sportin' that bow tie and suit like a damn boss. I swear, they should just rename him "Kingsman Kent".

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:11 pm

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:23 pm

The best part of this is that they opened with a solid story line. It is reasonably easy to follow if you just watch these two guys opening statements. This is pretty brilliant on Schiff's part. He was maybe lucky to have two the career, competent people to lean on who understand the situation and can speak to it clearly but still the framing couldn't be more perfect. They've got Trump in a vise. The clear thing is that the Republicans only have shenanigans to fall back on.

Meanwhile back on the other side of DC -- oh looks here is some bullshit.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:41 pm

Also the new stuff from Taylor is big because one media dynamic that's a problem for investigating Trump is the media focus on "newness". If something's not new, it understandably gets less coverage, or even worse gets covered under a "this is old news" shade. I think it's one thing that contributed to the Mueller Report bombing - there wasn't a *ton* in there that hadn't already been reported out by the media.

But combining new information with old information that hadn't totally penetrated public awareness is potentially a big deal.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:44 pm

It also clears out the need to link Sondland to Trump via Mulvaney. I think they might even get this properly tied up and then roll out Sondland to start to drop the 5th for himself since he done fucked up.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:46 pm

It is thirdhand, to be sure. Though if they deem it important enough presumably Democrats could just add the staffer to the witness list, since I don't think it would take a ton of time to cover the relevant grounds.

I would also like to reiterate how glad I am that Schiff is in charge of this stuff.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:25 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:46 pm It is thirdhand, to be sure. Though if they deem it important enough presumably Democrats could just add the staffer to the witness list, since I don't think it would take a ton of time to cover the relevant grounds.

I would also like to reiterate how glad I am that Schiff is in charge of this stuff.

Yeah properly tied in is either affadavit or the staffer testifying. Though, I don't know that they'd want to expose a staffer to GOP shenanigans. They might have to do it but I wonder if they'll give Sondland *another* opportunity to correct the record.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:27 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:25 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:46 pm It is thirdhand, to be sure. Though if they deem it important enough presumably Democrats could just add the staffer to the witness list, since I don't think it would take a ton of time to cover the relevant grounds.

I would also like to reiterate how glad I am that Schiff is in charge of this stuff.
Yeah properly tied in is either affadavit or the staffer testifying. Though, I don't know that they'd want to expose a staffer to GOP shenanigans. They might have to do it but I wonder if they'll give Sondland *another* opportunity to correct the record.

Yeah actually that makes a lot more sense. Ask Sondland about it, especially now that Sondland knows that this staffer is looming if he lies about it. Better coming from Sondland as well.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:35 pm

I think a lot of today from the GOP will be a lot of nonsense from Nunes + GOP counsel about this all being hearsay as they fight a rear guard. They know that'll be shot full of holes next week but they are going to bank on people watching the first day and not following along. That was why it was very important for Taylor to talk about that call. It gives the media the ability to say...they claim it is hearsay...but there is a witness in the wings who can connect the dots. It is going to make today's coverage about as "clean" as you can hope. This is really well done.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:43 pm

I gotta say as an investigative attorney myself, it's professionally interesting to read about the Democrats' lead attorney, Daniel Goldman. The guy's obviously proven his chops repeatedly, but man - gotta be completely terrifying to lead questions on something as important as this in the face of public scrutiny and bad faith attacks.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:51 pm

Yeah - on top of bad faith, Goldman probably has legitimate physical security issues at the moment to worry about. I give him a lot of credit.

Back to the hearings, Nunes is such a garbage human. Now we get why they asked all the crazy questions in the depositions. Nunes is just reading the crazy questions to Taylor over and over to ask him if was unaware of them. Of course he wasn't. They are all *conspiracy theories*. He is using his question time to just spread conspiracy theories on tv. Nunes is such a creep. History is not going to treat him well.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:54 pm

I wonder if Nunes is crazy, corrupt, or both.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:58 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:54 pm I wonder if Nunes is crazy, corrupt, or both.

Certainly seems to not be right in the head.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:58 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:54 pm I wonder if Nunes is crazy, corrupt, or both.

Both. He is clearly a bit of a empty suit but someone has something on him or is promising him something big. It can't be support for the CA Senate seat so you can guess the WH might be promising him something in a 2nd term.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:02 pm

You know how when playing an RPG that gives you the option for bad choices and you try to play the bad guy but you are just really uncomfortable with it and can't keep doing it? I am guessing Nunes and many of the GOP would feel no discomfort in taking those options.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:02 pm

Not the best sign of a great set of defense ideas if the GOP is using their time to question an ambassador to Ukraine about the President's thoughts along with procedural questions relating to the run-up to the 2016 election. Neither of which, you know, the ambassador would have any insight into, nor firsthand opinion on.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:04 pm

Nunes was on the Trump transition team executive committee. His horse got hitched a long time ago.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:06 pm

To be fair to Castor - this is an impossible job if the goal was to defend the President on the merits. He needs to balance deploying the best shit show smoke screen he can against not get himself into trouble with the bar association.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:13 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:06 pm To be fair to Castor - this is an impossible job if the goal was to defend the President on the merits. He needs to balance deploying the best shit show smoke screen he can against not get himself into trouble with the bar association.

The Last Resort rule: when the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither is on you side, pound the table.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:15 pm

Yeah - he is just asking these two questions about Burisma/Biden. Pathetic. I can only hope the media can contextualize this as 100% garbage and let the right-wing alternate universe do its thing.

LOL - Castor accidentally just linked Trump to the backchannel. HAHAHAHAHA. He abruptly changed the subject but whoopsie!

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:40 pm

And here we go with the personal segment - Nunes has deployed Jordan as the rumors predicted. If you hadn't seen the stories, it was leaked that Jordan would be given a starring role in all this. And Jordan is basically trying to undermine Taylor's credibility straight up. Jordan is just talking nonsense by talking about some complicated re-telling of meeting notes. I think it is a new version of the Chewbacca defense. I think Taylor is trying not to laugh at Jordan's bullshit.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:48 pm

I have no means of watch this while at work, but the 538 live blog seems to be a good way to keep up (at least it jives with what y'all are writing).

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:58 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:48 pm I have no means of watch this while at work, but the 538 live blog seems to be a good way to keep up (at least it jives with what y'all are writing).

The only benefit is that live viewing gives you sense of how desperate and shitty the Republican members are. They are whining. Complaining. Getting flustered when Taylor hasn't agreed to participate in their portrayal of this as a railroading, etc. Grumbling when Schiff doesn't let them play games. They are pathetic and I wish people all had an opportunity to see this because it is *pathetic*.

And to add some flavor, for example Schiff acted in a very fair manner. Ratcliffe was trying to rush Taylor through an answer trying to get him to 'yes' or 'no' things. Taylor wasn't willing to leave it at 'yes' or 'no'. Ratcliffe withdrew his question and Schiff stopped the clock to allow Taylor to answer. Ratcliffe demanded time back and Schiff said no. You could hear the Republicans muttering about how unfair it was.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:10 pm

The Democrats strategy is pretty clear. Every time the GOP raises one of their smoke screen bull shit issues the next Dem questioner yields time to Schiff to ask clarifying questions that inform the public and defuse the bullshit bomb. This is very effective if you are watching it.

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:19 pm

malchior wrote:
El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:46 pm It is thirdhand, to be sure. Though if they deem it important enough presumably Democrats could just add the staffer to the witness list, since I don't think it would take a ton of time to cover the relevant grounds.

I would also like to reiterate how glad I am that Schiff is in charge of this stuff.
Yeah properly tied in is either affadavit or the staffer testifying. Though, I don't know that they'd want to expose a staffer to GOP shenanigans. They might have to do it but I wonder if they'll give Sondland *another* opportunity to correct the record.

I read like twenty minutes ago that Mr. Holmes, the aide in question is scheduled already.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Key Trump Impeachment Defense Is Blowing Up in Republicans’ Faces

http://flip.it/.PDabh

After Taylor’s remarks, a reporter for CBS News tweeted that Democrats had scheduled additional interview for Thursday and Friday this week. One witness, on Friday, will be David Holmes, an aide to Taylor.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:27 pm

It isn't clear if that'll be a *private* interview (which I suspect) or a hearing. I think Schiff is wise enough not to throw a staffer to the wolves without getting to the bottom of it. Sondland speaks before then publicly as well and it might be moot by then.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:35 pm

I want to thank Stefanik for telling me what the important 2 points are for this hearing. 1) The aide flowed and 2) no investigation was opened. Ornstein clearly captures the response to this heaping pile of bullshit.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:37 pm

"Attempted murder," now honestly, did they ever give anyone a Nobel prize for "attempted chemistry?"

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:55 pm

Kingsman Kent continues to prove why he's the boss

Just about an hour before the two of you sat down to testify the President tweeted multiple times about this hearing and he put in all caps "Never Trumpers." Mr. Kent, are you a 'never Trumper?'" Swalwell asked.

Kent quickly responded, saying that he is a career diplomat "who serves whatever president is duly-elected and carries out the foreign policies of that president in the United States, and I've done that for 27 years for three Republican presidents and two Democrat presidents.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:07 pm

Lol. They yielded again to Jordan. More Chewbacca defense. More who is the whistle blower. Also why is he yelling? If only he yelled this loudly about the sexual abuse at Ohio State. Oh well missed opportunity. It would be hilarious if he wasn't so deadly serious.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:11 pm

I haven't been watching, but I guess Giuliani has tried to sneak into the hearing?

(In case you don't get the reference, he's been in drag before)

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:31 pm

Impeachable offense ongoing edition - talking side-by-side with Erdogan today. (To paraphrase) Turkey has been saddled with immense costs due to refugees. I think Europe should help Erdogan with these costs. If they don't, maybe they should just release these refugees into Europe. There are 4 million of them. That'll cause a *lot of problems*. WHAT THE FUCK.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:33 pm

Extortion at its finest.