The Trump Impeachment Thread

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:05 pm

No, no. Line three is two lines:

I want nothing
I want nothing
I want no
Quid pro quo

I'm sure Randy Rainbow is already on top of this.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:06 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:05 pm No, no. Line three is two lines:

I want nothing
I want nothing
I want no
Quid pro quo

I'm sure Randy Rainbow is already on top of this.

OMG you are so right, I can hardly wait to see what he does with this week!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:17 pm

If nothing else, the Prez Supervillain account is going to have a blast.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:19 pm

Wow - Maloney's questioning of Sondland was like watching a cat toy with a mouse. If you didn't see it - here is the spirit.

Sondland: Mr. Maloney I've been very forthright and I really resent what you're trying to do.

Maloney: You've been very forthright? This is your third try to do so, sir. Didn't work so well the first time, did it?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:30 pm

hentzau wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:54 pm
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:44 pm
Zaxxon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:01 pm
Is he singing his speech? Because the first half would make a really good refrain.
I've been trying to fit it in with "I Feel Pretty" but the third line just doesn't work...

I'm hearing a Dr Seuss setup.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:32 pm

Smeggin' 'ell, he's losing it. Hope Walter Reed is on standby.

Pretty sure I Want Nothing is going to be his I'm Not A Crook.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:56 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:56 pm
I WANT NOTHING! I WANT NOTHING! I WANT NO QUID PRO QUO!
What people who have committed no crime say after they have been caught not committing that crime.

(And he said it the day after he learned the whistleblower report was going public.)

"I WANT NOTHING! BUT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO DO US A FAVOR..."

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:06 pm

It's like OJ screaming, "I want no murder!"

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:01 pm

And there it is...

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:12 pm

Cooper's opening statement says that the Ukrainians were well aware of the funding issues on military assistance. Another GOP defense defeated. Not that defeating all defenses matter but the GOP makes up a defense and they knock it down. Almost like there is something to all this.

Also - it is interesting that they asked about it on July 25th. Not clear if before/after Trump call but that doesn't seem accidental.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:28 pm

gilraen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:13 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:06 pm To be fair to Castor - this is an impossible job if the goal was to defend the President on the merits. He needs to balance deploying the best shit show smoke screen he can against not get himself into trouble with the bar association.
The Last Resort rule: when the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither is on you side, pound the table.

Nunes actually had the gall to use that in his closing statement-

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:43 pm

It takes a lot to be a bigger hypocritical piece of shit than Mitch McConnell, but Nunes is putting forth a valiant effort.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:45 pm

I would be Test Trump Against the Weight of a Duck just to make the Republicans happy.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:48 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:56 pm "I WANT NOTHING! BUT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO DO US A FAVOR..."

I am genuinely curious about this and the insistence that there was NO QUID PRO QUO. 100% truth, I have been wondering all day if there's a belief on Trump's part that without a physical transfer of something tangible (a property, a deed, a suitcase full of unmarked bills) there is no QUID PRO QUO. Simply asking a foreign leader to go on TV and say something negative about Joe BIden in exchange for aid isn't like anything like giving people bullshit college degrees or steaks when they give you money.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:41 pm

Just catching up on today’s testimony. Sondland’s reaction to Trump’s tweets about him may be my favorite part. From CNN:

Ambassador Gordon Sondland just reacted to President Trump's shifting tone about him.

"Easy come, easy go," he said.

More on this: Earlier today, Trump reacted to Sondland's testimony, saying, "This is not a man I know well."

The knives are out!

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:46 pm

Alefroth wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:28 pm
gilraen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:13 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:06 pm To be fair to Castor - this is an impossible job if the goal was to defend the President on the merits. He needs to balance deploying the best shit show smoke screen he can against not get himself into trouble with the bar association.
The Last Resort rule: when the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither is on you side, pound the table.
Nunes actually had the gall to use that in his closing statement-

Wow. That sounded incredibly weak to me. Almost resigned that the gig is up, and there’s not much more Nunes and his GOP clown crew of Trump loyalists can do about it.

milo · Post by **milo** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:23 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:48 pm
I am genuinely curious about this and the insistence that there was NO QUID PRO QUO. 100% truth, I have been wondering all day if there's a belief on Trump's part that ...

Let me stop you right there. You are making a common mistake here in suggesting that Trump thinks words have meanings that can be used to describe facts about the objective world around us. Trump presents as having some form of narcissism. He is only able to understand words as sounds that either build him up or tear him down. Words that build him up (or do so indirectly by tearing down others) are those he believes to be true. Everything else is fake.

I know that probably sounds ridiculous. How could the President of the United States not understand that words describe an objective reality? But it really is the simplest explanation that fits his observable behavior. Note that this explains why Trump is fixated on Ukraine's unsuccessful (as well as completely fictional) attempt to bolster the Clinton campaign in 2016 and why he discounts the generally accepted understanding that Russians were helping support his own campaign at the direction of Vladimir Putin.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:26 am

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:42 am

Kurth wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:46 pmWow. That sounded incredibly weak to me. Almost resigned that the gig is up, and there’s not much more Nunes and his GOP clown crew of Trump loyalists can do about it.

This is the best he does. It is his shtick. Every opening and closing statement has been along these lines. He has nothing. He isn't capable of more. He is the complete turd the right loves because they are essentially a nihilistic cult.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 am

Here's the latest Rudy idea.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:27 am

Nunes is such a tool. His opening statement is a long, exhausting tirade about how 'the Democrats got caught.'

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:56 am

pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 am Here's the latest Rudy idea.

The mental gymnastic it would take to buy that argument must be exhausting.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:13 am

Scraper wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:56 am
pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 am Here's the latest Rudy idea.

The mental gymnastic it would take to buy that argument must be exhausting.

Fortunately for Giuliani though the mental gymnasium is an endless hallway populated by a single ping pong ball perpetually bouncing in random directions. Yet another reason Trump proudly "loves the uneducated."

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:49 pm

And yet, according to the 538 poll tracker overall support for impeachment has been slowly but consistently eroding over the course of the public hearings.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:18 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Nunes is such a tool. His opening statement is a long, exhausting tirade about how 'the Democrats got caught.'

Chewbacca defense.

Now click your heels together, Nunes, and repeat after me:
Trump got caught.
Trump got caught.
Trump got caught.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:04 pm

They apparently put up this sign today.

So...he’s following the rules then?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:23 pm

Max Peck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:49 pm And yet, according to the 538 poll tracker overall support for impeachment has been slowly but consistently eroding over the course of the public hearings.

This impeachment process will peter out and die over the next week or so unless they have video or audio recordings of Trump actually telling Zelensky that he hates Biden and wants him to destroy him. And even with that, I still have serious reservations that anything would happen to Trump. That's how fucked up our country's political environment is right now. It's not about what's right or wrong, it's about which party is right or wrong. Neither side will win/lose that argument, so this is where we are. Held hostage by the single most divisive force in our history. A massive coronary is our only real hope at this point. I hate saying that, but it's true.

Fretmute · Post by **Fretmute** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:29 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:23 pmIt's not about what's right or wrong, it's about which party is right or wrong. Neither side will win/lose that argument, so this is where we are. Held hostage by the single most divisive force in our history. A massive coronary is our only real hope at this point. I hate saying that, but it's true.

Or, as Popehat put it:

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:40 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:04 pm They apparently put up this sign today.

So...he’s following the rules then?

That is a rather remarkable self-own.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:04 pm

I think part of the lack of public support is that a lot of people don't really understand the charges. It isn't a blatant 'handed over secrets' or 'lied under oath' or 'ordered theft', it is abuse of power that most people don't understand hidden under a Latin phrase most people don't understand. It isn't easy to understand why 'investigate something I think is a crime' can be considered bad enough to remove the President from power, and that lends weight to the counter-argument that it is a political play.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:08 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:40 pm
Skinypupy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:04 pm They apparently put up this sign today.

So...he’s following the rules then?
That is a rather remarkable self-own.

"I could care less."

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:48 pm

There are no words to describe the greatness of the GOP. Their ingenuity is unmatched. While at the same time they can't be any more honest in their approach.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:23 pm

At this point we are finding out that our country is at high risk to be seen as a failed state in the long-term. Possibly next year if we reelect Trump.

This is a *very clear* case of abuse. The Republicans are acting like jackasses the whole time. The press actually did a good job explaining this but I keep hearing from people that they are not engaged.

They are switched off to our politics. At least in my circle. And it is understandable...sort of...but that is why we are circling the drain. The apathy is in a negative feedback cycle and that is why we are here.

I would love to see a poll to see if people are even watching to see if what I hear around me is true. I suspect it is.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:12 pm

We have quite a ways to go before I think we can start calling ourselves a failed state. Take a look around. Things suck, but our founding fathers built a lot of redundancy into our country. I’m not trying to diminish how awful Trump is, but I also don’t think we should throw in the towel over one awful presidency. We survived McCarthyism, Nixon, Vietnam and the birth of reality tv. I think we’ll survive this too.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:26 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:12 pm We have quite a ways to go before I think we can start calling ourselves a failed state. Take a look around. Things suck, but our founding fathers built a lot of redundancy into our country. I’m not trying to diminish how awful Trump is, but I also don’t think we should throw in the towel over one awful presidency. We survived McCarthyism, Nixon, Vietnam and the birth of reality tv. I think we’ll survive this too.

Some of the things Trump has broken can't be put back together again. Will Europe ever trust America to lead NATO? Will anyone alive in 2040 forgive us from not only ignoring global warming while the clock ran out, but actively making it worse? How about ruining trust in the press and faith in the integrity of our own electoral process? Destroying the GOP's legitimacy? Elevating dictators and racists? Successfully placing the presidency above the law (still in progress...and on topic!)? We will survive one term of this, but all of those things will echo far into our future.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:44 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:26 pm
hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:12 pm We have quite a ways to go before I think we can start calling ourselves a failed state. Take a look around. Things suck, but our founding fathers built a lot of redundancy into our country. I’m not trying to diminish how awful Trump is, but I also don’t think we should throw in the towel over one awful presidency. We survived McCarthyism, Nixon, Vietnam and the birth of reality tv. I think we’ll survive this too.
Some of the things Trump has broken can't be put back together again. Will Europe ever trust America to lead NATO? Will anyone alive in 2040 forgive us from not only ignoring global warming while the clock ran out, but actively making it worse? How about ruining trust in the press and faith in the integrity of our own electoral process? Destroying the GOP's legitimacy? Elevating dictators and racists? Successfully placing the presidency above the law (still in progress...and on topic!)? We will survive one term of this, but all of those things will echo far into our future.

Exactly. I deal with European's all the time. I'll relate that I was literally told that a BDI info sharing session 4 months ago included guidance to not store log data in American data centers. I had to promise that data would be stored in the EU to get cooperation. And then get one of the European client leads to back that up in writing because I might be from the 'NSA'. Seriously. That actually happened at a major global corporation. I sat in a bar in Ireland explaining what the hell was happening during the Kavanaugh hearings. I'm out there dealing with this first hand. And these are generally informed professionals. They think between us and the British that the world is going to hell in a hand basket. It is nuts.

In other words, trust in our nation is in tatters even in our friends' eyes. Think about that. It has never been this bad in modern times. Even during Bush the Europeans were a bit divided over Iraq but they eventually pitched in. Now they are wondering if we'll just walk out of NATO at random. Our President's can randomly throw tariffs on goods for no reason. Our President cozies up to dictators and punishes our allies. Our President's can openly commit crimes and be protected. Our President's can destroy the world unilaterally. Our domestic and foreign policies shift drastically depending on who is in power lately. We are a basket case. Hoping this is just a bad run is...not supported by reality.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:05 am

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:44 pm
Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:26 pm
hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:12 pm We have quite a ways to go before I think we can start calling ourselves a failed state. Take a look around. Things suck, but our founding fathers built a lot of redundancy into our country. I’m not trying to diminish how awful Trump is, but I also don’t think we should throw in the towel over one awful presidency. We survived McCarthyism, Nixon, Vietnam and the birth of reality tv. I think we’ll survive this too.
Some of the things Trump has broken can't be put back together again. Will Europe ever trust America to lead NATO? Will anyone alive in 2040 forgive us from not only ignoring global warming while the clock ran out, but actively making it worse? How about ruining trust in the press and faith in the integrity of our own electoral process? Destroying the GOP's legitimacy? Elevating dictators and racists? Successfully placing the presidency above the law (still in progress...and on topic!)? We will survive one term of this, but all of those things will echo far into our future.
Exactly. I deal with European's all the time. I'll relate that I was literally told that a BDI info sharing session 4 months ago included guidance to not store log data in American data centers. I had to promise that data would be stored in the EU to get cooperation. And then get one of the European client leads to back that up in writing because I might be from the 'NSA'. Seriously. That actually happened at a major global corporation. I sat in a bar in Ireland explaining what the hell was happening during the Kavanaugh hearings. I'm out there dealing with this first hand. And these are generally informed professionals. They think between us and the British that the world is going to hell in a hand basket. It is nuts.

In other words, trust in our nation is in tatters even in our friends' eyes. Think about that. It has never been this bad in modern times. Even during Bush the Europeans were a bit divided over Iraq but they eventually pitched in. Now they are wondering if we'll just walk out of NATO at random. Our President's can randomly throw tariffs on goods for no reason. Our President cozies up to dictators and punishes our allies. Our President's can openly commit crimes and be protected. Our President's can destroy the world unilaterally. Our domestic and foreign policies shift drastically depending on who is in power lately. We are a basket case. Hoping this is just a bad run is...not supported by reality.

Just replacing Trump with a functioning adult doesn't fix this, because how can anyone trust that we won't screw up again? We have broken continuity. Maybe...MAYBE...we could regain some trust by convicting and removing him from office. It would show that Americans won't tolerate this and our system still works to end it. Failing to do so will only make things worse. You think he's out of control now? Wait until he is exonerated in the Senate.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:57 am

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:44 pm
In other words, trust in our nation is in tatters even in our friends' eyes. Think about that. It has never been this bad in modern times. Even during Bush the Europeans were a bit divided over Iraq but they eventually pitched in. Now they are wondering if we'll just walk out of NATO at random. Our President's can randomly throw tariffs on goods for no reason. Our President cozies up to dictators and punishes our allies. Our President's can openly commit crimes and be protected. Our President's can destroy the world unilaterally. Our domestic and foreign policies shift drastically depending on who is in power lately. We are a basket case. Hoping this is just a bad run is...not supported by reality.

This is the thing people don't realize. The American "empire" is largely based upon friendship, trust, and common values. In general we don't use coercion to maintain our alliances - they are not puppets as was the Warsaw Pact. We do use our power, but in the end, our allies do what they do because they trust us and we share common values and goals. But with Trump, there is no trust, values are fraying, and who the hell knows what Trump's goal is other than "Make American Great Again", which often seems like it means "Make Russia Relevant Again" and screw our friends and allies over (we can only get greater if they are lesser). I see stupid Trumpers claiming that we are respected in the world unlike during Obama, and they have no idea what they are saying because they are so insular that they don't understand the real world. They truly are a modern version of the "Know Nothing" party of the mid 1800's.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:14 am

There is nothing that Trump broke that can't be fixed. It won't be easy or fast, but it can be fixed. If Germany from the 1920s through 80s can be put back together and trusted again, anything is possible.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:18 am

hepcat wrote:We have quite a ways to go before I think we can start calling ourselves a failed state. Take a look around. Things suck, but our founding fathers built a lot of redundancy into our country. I’m not trying to diminish how awful Trump is, but I also don’t think we should throw in the towel over one awful presidency. We survived McCarthyism, Nixon, Vietnam and the birth of reality tv. I think we’ll survive this too.

We'll survive it, sure. But the days of America leading the world are over. Done. Deservedly so. We suck, royally, and indisputably, as a nation.

If we ever regain that role, it's several decades from now through a serious restructuring of our political system. The one we have now is never recovering. It relied on norms and people actually caring to keep them, and that bus ain't turning around.