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The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Oh boy.

NYT: McConnell has made clear in private discussions that he believes now is the moment to move on the weakened lame duck, whom he blames for Republicans losing the Senate.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Jaymann »

What will be interesting is if Agolf will rush to pardon himself (IIUC you can't be pardoned for impeachable offenses) before he can be removed from office, or rely on Pence, the man his minions tried to assassinate, to pardon him after he is removed from office.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Jaymann wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:28 pm What will be interesting is if Agolf will rush to pardon himself (IIUC you can't be pardoned for impeachable offenses) before he can be removed from office, or rely on Pence, the man his minions tried to assassinate, to pardon him after he is removed from office.
I honestly believe his delusions preclude him from making rational decisions like that.

I'm certain he's currently fuming that the election was stolen from him and his tech accounts shut down. The world is against him and it's unfair. Little else matters. He's done nothing wrong in his mind.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Paingod wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:53 am
Jaymann wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:28 pm What will be interesting is if Agolf will rush to pardon himself (IIUC you can't be pardoned for impeachable offenses) before he can be removed from office, or rely on Pence, the man his minions tried to assassinate, to pardon him after he is removed from office.
I honestly believe his delusions preclude him from making rational decisions like that.

I'm certain he's currently fuming that the election was stolen from him and his tech accounts shut down. The world is against him and it's unfair. Little else matters. He's done nothing wrong in his mind.
I'm sure that he will pardon himself. The timing is tricky for him now, though - one worry is that self-pardon outrage makes it more likely for Senators to vote to convict him. But I think that's outweighed by the risk of leaving office without a pardon.

He should be negotiating with Pence over a resignation and pardon, though who knows whether Pence is willing to do that especially after, you know, Trump whipped up an insurrectionary mob to murder him.

Trump really fucked himself pretty badly with this insurrection.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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To be fair, from a normal person's perspective he fucks himself pretty badly with just about everything he does and somehow keeps sliding through.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Catching bits and pieces of the hearings this morning. The general gist seems to be the most Republicans aren't even bothering to defend Trump's actions, they're simply complaining about the "rushed" process or giving dire warnings that their supporters will get even more violent.

Unsurprising, really.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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El Guapo wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:17 am
Paingod wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:53 am
Jaymann wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:28 pm What will be interesting is if Agolf will rush to pardon himself (IIUC you can't be pardoned for impeachable offenses) before he can be removed from office, or rely on Pence, the man his minions tried to assassinate, to pardon him after he is removed from office.
I honestly believe his delusions preclude him from making rational decisions like that.

I'm certain he's currently fuming that the election was stolen from him and his tech accounts shut down. The world is against him and it's unfair. Little else matters. He's done nothing wrong in his mind.
I'm sure that he will pardon himself. The timing is tricky for him now, though - one worry is that self-pardon outrage makes it more likely for Senators to vote to convict him. But I think that's outweighed by the risk of leaving office without a pardon.
He should pardon himself immediately and just not announce it until Jan 20th.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:38 am Catching bits and pieces of the hearings this morning. The general gist seems to be the most Republicans aren't even bothering to defend Trump's actions, they're simply complaining about the "rushed" process or giving dire warnings that their supporters will get even more violent.

Unsurprising, really.
Yes. The Republican defense. How can you move too fast to protect yourself and the American people?
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Some Dem representatives have described GOP colleagues confessing fear for their safety if they vote to impeach.

So they're going to vote for the guy stoking that threat.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Holman wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:20 pm Some Dem representatives have described GOP colleagues confessing fear for their safety if they vote to impeach.

So they're going to vote for the guy stoking that threat.
Then they're cowards. They won't stand up to vague threats in order to preserve the Constitution and rule of law? They send kids off to war for less.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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I believe the debate thus far has been about setting up the rules and such, not the actual impeachment debate. I'd like to hope that explains some of the Rs points and otherwise lack of defense at this point.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Daveman wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:39 pm I believe the debate thus far has been about setting up the rules and such, not the actual impeachment debate. I'd like to hope that explains some of the Rs points and otherwise lack of defense at this point.
Ah, that would make more sense then. I've only been catching soundbites between meetings, so I didn't have any broader context.

Will be interesting to see if that changes at all as the process progresses.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:35 pmThen they're cowards. They won't stand up to vague threats in order to preserve the Constitution and rule of law? They send kids off to war for less.
No one (to my recollection) has ever accused most of them of being good or brave. I wager very few (both sides) ever even served in the armed forces. I could be wrong. It'd be an interesting factoid to dig up.

They're not worried about Trump at this point. They're worried about disembarking from a plane and having some screaming death cultist make an example of them with a shiv. They've known they couldn't let go of this particular tiger since they latched onto it 4 years ago - but I don't think they realized it would physically threaten them past the duration of the presidency.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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This weird trick will save Democracy. Republicans hate this!
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Military Times
The number of military veterans in Congress will drop again next session, reaching the lowest levels of members with some military experience since at least World War II.

For now, 91 veterans are set to be sworn in as members of the 117th Congress in January, a decrease of five from the start of the 116th Congress in 2019. Of the group, 74 will serve in the House, and 17 in the Senate.

More than two-thirds of the veterans set to serve are Republicans. There are 16 newcomers: two senators (Arizona Democrat Mark Kelly and Kansas Republican Roger Marshall) and 14 House members (12 of whom are Republicans).
...
Since the start of the 93rd Congress in 1973, when 390 lawmakers (about 73 percent of Congress) had some type of military experience on their resumes, the number of veterans in Congress has declined steadily.

In 1993, 236 lawmakers were veterans, according to Congressional Research Service records. By 2001, that number was down to 168. In 2011, it was only 118.

The 91 veterans in Congress is set to be the lowest number since at least the end of World War II. Congressional records on veterans serving in elected office before then are incomplete.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Paingod wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:22 am To be fair, from a normal person's perspective he fucks himself pretty badly with just about everything he does and somehow keeps sliding through.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Paingod wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:41 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:35 pmThen they're cowards. They won't stand up to vague threats in order to preserve the Constitution and rule of law? They send kids off to war for less.
No one (to my recollection) has ever accused most of them of being good or brave. I wager very few (both sides) ever even served in the armed forces. I could be wrong. It'd be an interesting factoid to dig up.

They're not worried about Trump at this point. They're worried about disembarking from a plane and having some screaming death cultist make an example of them with a shiv. They've known they couldn't let go of this particular tiger since they latched onto it 4 years ago - but I don't think they realized it would physically threaten them past the duration of the presidency.
Then that also reaping the fruits of their own stupidity. "Who knew that his gun I got to shoot other people could also shoot me?"

They certainly talked up the threat of the Antifa bogeymen to their personal safety.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Skinypupy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:40 pm
Daveman wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:39 pm I believe the debate thus far has been about setting up the rules and such, not the actual impeachment debate. I'd like to hope that explains some of the Rs points and otherwise lack of defense at this point.
Ah, that would make more sense then. I've only been catching soundbites between meetings, so I didn't have any broader context.

Will be interesting to see if that changes at all as the process progresses.
The plan is to vote today on impeachment, isn't it? Or is the actual impeachment vote going to be another day?
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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They are supposed to vote today. Last I saw was 3 but who knows if that's even remotely accurate.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Assuming he gets impeached today, and assuming McConnell really does mean it when he says he supports it, what's the earliest the senate could end up convicting him?
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:04 pm
Paingod wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:41 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:35 pmThen they're cowards. They won't stand up to vague threats in order to preserve the Constitution and rule of law? They send kids off to war for less.
No one (to my recollection) has ever accused most of them of being good or brave. I wager very few (both sides) ever even served in the armed forces. I could be wrong. It'd be an interesting factoid to dig up.

They're not worried about Trump at this point. They're worried about disembarking from a plane and having some screaming death cultist make an example of them with a shiv. They've known they couldn't let go of this particular tiger since they latched onto it 4 years ago - but I don't think they realized it would physically threaten them past the duration of the presidency.
Then that also reaping the fruits of their own stupidity. "Who knew that his gun I got to shoot other people could also shoot me?"

They certainly talked up the threat of the Antifa bogeymen to their personal safety.
Not a profile in courage, that’s for sure, but I get the fear and think it’s probably well-founded at this point. The Trumpaloo mob appears to be even angrier at what they perceive to be RINOs than at Democrats. And, unlike AOC who boards a plane or hops on the Acela to return to adoring supporters in New York, many of these Republicans face returning to districts where their constituents literally want to kill them for their perceived betrayal of Trump.

Think about the video of Graham being harassed in the airport the other day or of Correra being screamed at and threatened by Trumpists at Dulles.

Most congressional districts aren’t that big. When these people go home, they will be living next door to people who are vocally and publicly threatening them.

I get the fear.

(And, please, no responses about whether they deserve it or not or should have seen it coming. Not the point.)
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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wonderpug wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:19 pm Assuming he gets impeached today, and assuming McConnell really does mean it when he says he supports it, what's the earliest the senate could end up convicting him?
McConnell has said that barring unanimous consent to alter the Senate schedule they couldn't start before the 20th. OTOH I saw an article the other day saying that Schumer is looking at some Senate authority that would allow them to start earlier with the consent of both major party leaders (Schumer + McConnell), though I don't know if McConnell would be on board with that.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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wonderpug wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:19 pm Assuming he gets impeached today, and assuming McConnell really does mean it when he says he supports it, what's the earliest the senate could end up convicting him?
That's a huge question. I've heard the House may hold back on sending it over to the Senate (who can't delay deliberation once it's in their hands) until after Biden/Harris gets settled in and makes some progress. IMO, that means it may not even be sent to the Senate for a few months.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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The Meal wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:24 pm
wonderpug wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:19 pm Assuming he gets impeached today, and assuming McConnell really does mean it when he says he supports it, what's the earliest the senate could end up convicting him?
That's a huge question. I've heard the House may hold back on sending it over to the Senate (who can't delay deliberation once it's in their hands) until after Biden/Harris gets settled in and makes some progress. IMO, that means it may not even be sent to the Senate for a few months.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

The Meal wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:24 pm
wonderpug wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:19 pm Assuming he gets impeached today, and assuming McConnell really does mean it when he says he supports it, what's the earliest the senate could end up convicting him?
That's a huge question. I've heard the House may hold back on sending it over to the Senate (who can't delay deliberation once it's in their hands) until after Biden/Harris gets settled in and makes some progress. IMO, that means it may not even be sent to the Senate for a few months.
This was a suggestion from Clyburn, who wanted to hold sending it to the senate until after Biden's first 100 days. I believe that idea has been rejected and they plan to send it over right away.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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So, Jim Jordan's still a piece of work, eh? (Speaking nonsense now on the House floor during the debate.)
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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The cult looks to cancel Liz Cheney.


Just got my hands on this petition which is calling for a special conference to oust the no 3 Republican for supporting impeachment.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Defiant »

I have to wonder if McConnell is suggesting he wants to impeach in the hopes that it will get Trump to just resign. Having Trump resign would be a lot easier on the Republican party (rather than have a vote that divides Republicans in congress and will hang over their heads in the years ahead).
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kurth wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:23 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:04 pm
Paingod wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:41 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:35 pmThen they're cowards. They won't stand up to vague threats in order to preserve the Constitution and rule of law? They send kids off to war for less.
No one (to my recollection) has ever accused most of them of being good or brave. I wager very few (both sides) ever even served in the armed forces. I could be wrong. It'd be an interesting factoid to dig up.

They're not worried about Trump at this point. They're worried about disembarking from a plane and having some screaming death cultist make an example of them with a shiv. They've known they couldn't let go of this particular tiger since they latched onto it 4 years ago - but I don't think they realized it would physically threaten them past the duration of the presidency.
Then that also reaping the fruits of their own stupidity. "Who knew that his gun I got to shoot other people could also shoot me?"

They certainly talked up the threat of the Antifa bogeymen to their personal safety.
Not a profile in courage, that’s for sure, but I get the fear and think it’s probably well-founded at this point. The Trumpaloo mob appears to be even angrier at what they perceive to be RINOs than at Democrats. And, unlike AOC who boards a plane or hops on the Acela to return to adoring supporters in New York, many of these Republicans face returning to districts where their constituents literally want to kill them for their perceived betrayal of Trump.

Think about the video of Graham being harassed in the airport the other day or of Correra being screamed at and threatened by Trumpists at Dulles.

Most congressional districts aren’t that big. When these people go home, they will be living next door to people who are vocally and publicly threatening them.

I get the fear.

(And, please, no responses about whether they deserve it or not or should have seen it coming. Not the point.)
What is the point, that they have a legitimate fear? Sure. Never disagreed with that.

The fact that their reaction to the fear is to buckle and vote against impeachment solely on the basis of that fear (or using fear as an excuse), that's pretty damned relevant.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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BTW, I was watching part of when Pelosi was speaking (on an ABC livestream on youtube), and there was a split screen where they showed a closeup of what looked like people trying to storm a building (the capitol, I assume) - it wasn't clear if that was live or a repeat of 1/6. I assumed it was a repeat, but I wish they made that clear (I didn't see anything that said it was live or anything that specified that it was from last week, but I only caught a brief part of it before they switched away).
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Zaxxon »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:44 pmWhat is the point, that they have a legitimate fear? Sure. Never disagreed with that.

The fact that their reaction to the fear is to buckle and vote against impeachment solely on the basis of that fear (or using fear as an excuse), that's pretty damned relevant.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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McConnell wants to delay to (1) avoid personal responsibility managing the impeachment, (2) delay Biden’s cabinet appointments, and (3) postpone Democratic legislation. He’s a nasty, nefarious bastard with no conscience.

If McConnell can fracture the Senate to punish Democrats, he’ll do it despite the risk.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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I’m almost amused by all the Republicans calling for “unity”, “healing” and resurrecting the ghost of Lincoln by invoking our “better angels”. They seem to forget that Lincoln also wanted the unconditional defeat of the Confederacy before reaching out for unity and healing.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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I'm trying to watch the debate but every time a Republican gets up and pleads for unity after spending the last four years "pwning libs" makes me want to hit my television.

These pieces of crap do this every time. Whenever they have the power, anything goes. The minute the tides turn, they're victimized snowflakes who don't understand why we can't all just get along. Fuck these delusional hypocrites.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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Rep. Boebert really sets my teeth on edge. It almost was a blessing that she talked so fast during her rant which seemed to make the time go faster.

And another Republican calls for the “better angels”. :roll:
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

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The next Democrat should put on a "Fuck your Feelings, Trump 2020" hat before taking the podium.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Thread

Post by Little Raven »

I'm all for unity and healing. It starts by impeaching Trump.

No, not every Republican is evil. Voting for Trump was not a crime. If you didn't storm the Capitol, you have nothing to fear from the FBI. We don't need Truth and Reconciliation committees, and the Republican Party can yet be redeemed. But Trump must be expelled.
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Little Raven wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:51 pm If you didn't storm the Capitol, you have nothing to fear from the FBI.
Well, except for the ones who have been actively conspiring to commit acts of insurrection but didn't make it to DC on the 6th. :coffee:
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