The Trump/GOP Racism Thread

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:47 am

The "Trump Presidency Thread" has so much different stuff in it, I thought it would be good to break out discussions of Trump's racism in a separate thread of it's own, as it's only going to get worse as the election proceeds.

To start off, let's look at Mitch McConnell's inspiring remarks after someone asked "What is someone told your wife to go home" (his wife is Elaine Chao, Labor Secretary, and was born in Taiwan):

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/453 ... -immigrant

For the record, when a reporter asked if it was ok for someone to tell his wife to go back to her country if she ever criticized federal policy and criticized it, Mr. Spineless refused to say that it would be racist. It's really sad if you refuse to defend your wife.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:26 pm

First, Mitch McConnell is a giant POS.

Second, I honestly don't know if Trump is a racist or bigot - truly. But I do know he uses the language of racists and bigots, so that's something. I'm also pretty confident he's embracing/using racist philosophies/words/phrases to further his own agenda and possibly the agenda of the GOP and their constituency. The reason I make these distinctions is because calling Trump a racist is problematic in that there's nothing we can do about it. Instead, I'd like everyone to focus on the things he's saying and doing that promote racism, division and xenophobia.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:37 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:26 pm
Second, I honestly don't know if Trump is a racist or bigot - truly. But I do know he uses the language of racists and bigots, so that's something. I'm also pretty confident he's embracing/using racist philosophies/words/phrases to further his own agenda and possibly the agenda of the GOP and their constituency. The reason I make these distinctions is because calling Trump a racist is problematic in that there's nothing we can do about it. Instead, I'd like everyone to focus on the things he's saying and doing that promote racism, division and xenophobia.

Oh, he's a racist all right. Whether it's amplified by his narcissism or agenda or what doesn't really matter. He is a racist, racists know this, and they love it.

Summary:

In fact, the very first time that Trump appeared in the pages of the New York Times, back in the 1970s, was when the US Department of Justice sued him for racial discrimination. Since then, he has repeatedly appeared in newspaper pages across the world as he inspired more similar controversies.

This long history is important. It would be one thing if Trump simply misspoke one or two times. But when you take all of Trump’s actions and comments together, a clear pattern emerges — one that suggests that bigotry is not just political opportunism on Trump’s part but a real element of Trump’s personality, character, and career.

Here’s a breakdown of Trump’s history, taken largely from Dara Lind’s list for Vox and an op-ed by Nicholas Kristof in the New York Times:

...

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:54 pm

See but that's the thing - arguing about whether or not Trump is a racist (he is) detracts from the things he's doing (or promoting) using his racist language (coded or otherwise). Since the weekend all the GOP members are coming out saying he's not a racist and the Democrats are countering with statements he is. It's non-productive. Rational minds know he's a racist but arguing over it doesn't address what's happening. I think it's worthwhile to point out, but I'd rather be focused on what's being done to countermand the policies/agendas that are being promoted by Trump and the GOP.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:40 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:54 pm See but that's the thing - arguing about whether or not Trump is a racist (he is) detracts from the things he's doing (or promoting) using his racist language (coded or otherwise). Since the weekend all the GOP members are coming out saying he's not a racist and the Democrats are countering with statements he is. It's non-productive. Rational minds know he's a racist but arguing over it doesn't address what's happening. I think it's worthwhile to point out, but I'd rather be focused on what's being done to countermand the policies/agendas that are being promoted by Trump and the GOP.

I was addressing the "I don't know" part. It's an established fact. Now we can move on.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:45 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:54 pm Rational mindseveryone know he's a racist but arguing over it doesn't address what's happening.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:45 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:54 pm Rational mindseveryone know he's a racist but arguing over it doesn't address what's happening.

Eh. I doubt it. There are a lot of people who say and do racist things, but deep down in their bones they believe they are not racist. I think it’s because they grew up in a time when the racists openly used the n word and said and did truly horrible things. These people believe that they cannot possibly be racist, because they are not mustache-twirling levels of evil.

I think Smooth B is right. We need to focus on the language being racist. Yes... if it talks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it’s probably our racist President. But people shut down when you call someone a racist, even if it’s not them. I’m going to have to keep Smooth’s comments in mind the next time an old white person tells me that their position can’t possibly be racist.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:58 pm

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:59 pm

98% of House Republicans voted against the resolution.

To me that means that 98% of House Republicans are all-in on Party over Country, and have sold what little integrity they once had for power.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:00 pm

em2nought wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:58 pm

"Some people I had to stand next to of my best friends are n black!"

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:07 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:00 pm "Some people I had to stand next to of my best friends are n black!"

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:14 pm

em2nought wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:07 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:00 pm "Some people I had to stand next to of my best friendsof the people who receive Ellis Island Awards in addition to me were black!"

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:14 pm

At least we can all agree em2 is a racist.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:15 pm

“Even accepting that Trump has had some successes (and I believe these are few), at his core, his ideology is racism,” the 55-year-old retired judge wrote Monday in a Facebook post. “To me, nothing positive about him could absolve him of his rotten core.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... fa2c7371a7

#walkaway

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:17 pm

Alefroth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:14 pm At least we can all agree em2 is a racist.

If you mean that I dislike ALL races equally then I'm ok with that.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:27 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:59 pm 98% of House Republicans voted against the resolution.

To me that means that 98% of House Republicans are all-in on Party over Country, and have sold what little integrity they once had for power.

If you really analyze what has happened it should be fucking terrifying. They not only stood silent but then they joined in on this half-baked reaction to show loyalty to this pile of shit. It is unreal. The GOP deserves to be flushed down the drain. In the meantime this country is ungovernable.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:53 pm

"I want to begin today by expressing my condolences to the family of a person I knew well. She worked for me on numerous occasions. She was terrific -- Aretha Franklin -- on her passing. She brought joy to million of lives and her extraordinary legacy will thrive and inspire many generations to come."

vs

"Billy Graham was 15 years old at the time. Just a few months later he accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. That choice didn't just change Billy's life, it changed our lives. It changed our country and it changed, in fact, the entire world."

Hmmmm

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:52 pm

Not to go off topic or to contradict the very the thread I started but I don't think Trump is actually racist. IMO, Trump is basically amoral. He only cares about what benefits him, whatever that is. He discriminated against blacks in housing because he thought it would drive down property values and hurt him financially. He supports white evangelicals because they are in important component of the Republican Party. He takes advantages of certain elements of the white population that fear changing demographics and culture by race baiting. He really has no fixed moral compass - the only constant in his life is he does what will benefit him the most - he is an amoral opportunist.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:19 pm

Trump is the President of this country, when he issues a 'go back to where you came from' statement I think it's a mistake to think that he doesn't really mean it, he's just trying to rally his voters. Why would you give him that benefit of the doubt? He's not a civilian just speaking his mind, he's speaking as the leader of this country. Every single word he uses carries multiple levels of importance and meaning. His tone speaks volumes. I don't think it makes sense to watch him lead the racist surge while at the same time thinking he still might not be one of them. He's not just hanging around with snakes, he's the head of the snake.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:57 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:52 pm He discriminated against blacks in housing because he thought it would drive down property values and hurt him financially.

Why isn't that sufficient to be a racist? Being an amoral opportunist doesn't preclude being a racist, does it? I mean, it's the actions that make you a racist, not the motivation.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:22 pm

I think he can be both amoral and racist, personally, Oh, and a moron too.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:49 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:52 pm Not to go off topic or to contradict the very the thread I started but I don't think Trump is actually racist. IMO, Trump is basically amoral. He only cares about what benefits him, whatever that is. He discriminated against blacks in housing because he thought it would drive down property values and hurt him financially. He supports white evangelicals because they are in important component of the Republican Party. He takes advantages of certain elements of the white population that fear changing demographics and culture by race baiting. He really has no fixed moral compass - the only constant in his life is he does what will benefit him the most - he is an amoral opportunist.

An amoral opportunist who harnesses the power of racism to build his movement is a racist.

I'd even say that a "practical racist" is worse than someone who is secretly racist in his heart but never acts on it.

If I steal from you while knowing that stealing is wrong (or even not caring either way), am I any less a thief?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:10 pm

The crowd at Trump's rally tonight broke into "SEND HER BACK!", which is the new "LOCK HER UP."

Racists gonna racist.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:15 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:10 pm The crowd at Trump's rally tonight broke into "SEND HER BACK!", which is the new "LOCK HER UP."

Racists gonna racist.

Yes, I just read this and I am horrified.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:24 pm

gameoverman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:19 pm Trump is the President of this country, when he issues a 'go back to where you came from' statement I think it's a mistake to think that he doesn't really mean it, he's just trying to rally his voters. Why would you give him that benefit of the doubt? He's not a civilian just speaking his mind, he's speaking as the leader of this country. Every single word he uses carries multiple levels of importance and meaning. His tone speaks volumes. I don't think it makes sense to watch him lead the racist surge while at the same time thinking he still might not be one of them. He's not just hanging around with snakes, he's the head of the snake.

I'm not giving him the "benefit of the doubt". I just don't think Trump cares about anything other than himself. He has given money to Democrats in the past, and from what I read, he even considered running as a Democrat instead of a Republican at times in the past - and of course if he did that, he certainly couldn't play the race card. If he felt being pro-diversity would help him, he'd be all for it. It would be just a clumsy as his attempts at playing Christian, but he'd do it. But since he chose to run as a Republican, he's going with the flow, having found an issue he can exploit - again, for his own benefit. In no way am I absolving him of anything, he is the leader and he is responsible for all he says and does, and the tone he sets for others. Frankly, I think amoral people are very scary because they can play the game better than anyone else. They are opportunistic and very good at manipulating people because they are such chameleons.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:57 pm

All I know is that there was a time when I believed the Democratic accusations of racism in the Republican party were at best, gross exaggerations, and at worst downright falsehoods. I was ignorant of the kinds of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and other race-oriented political tactics that were going on, and what I did know about I dismissed as more hysterical finger-pointing by the libtards.

It wasn't until the Trump presidency that I realized how accurate those accusations really were, and it shook me to my core.

I don't really care if Trump is a racist, a bigot, or an amoral opportunist. He exposed the Republican party's dark underbelly, and it's utterly terrifying how many people these assholes will hurt in their quest for power.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:06 pm

I really hope lots and lots of people had the same epiphany, YK.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:44 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:57 pm All I know is that there was a time when I believed the Democratic accusations of racism in the Republican party were at best, gross exaggerations, and at worst downright falsehoods. I was ignorant of the kinds of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and other race-oriented political tactics that were going on, and what I did know about I dismissed as more hysterical finger-pointing by the libtards.

It wasn't until the Trump presidency that I realized how accurate those accusations really were, and it shook me to my core.

I don't really care if Trump is a racist, a bigot, or an amoral opportunist. He exposed the Republican party's dark underbelly, and it's utterly terrifying how many people these assholes will hurt in their quest for power.

I wasn't a Republican but I once felt the same way. I even supported the repeal of federal oversight in the Voting Rights Act where voting law changes for Southern states had to be approved by the Justice Department to make sure they weren't discriminatory. I really thought my state and other Southern states were beyond that. And then my state, NC under Republican control, does that exact same thing with new voting laws with restrictive voting laws, where a Federal court found that the new laws targeted African American voters with "laser like precision". Very naive on my part, and I will never forget it.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:52 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:15 pm
Holman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:10 pm The crowd at Trump's rally tonight broke into "SEND HER BACK!", which is the new "LOCK HER UP."

Racists gonna racist.
Yes, I just read this and I am horrified.

Trump's approval with Republicans rose by 5%.

His net approval with Republicans in the new poll was 72%, an increase of 5 percentage points from a similar poll conducted last week.

On the other hand, Trump's approval dropped with Democrats and independents after his tweets. The poll found that about 30% of independents supported Trump, dropping from roughly 40% last week. Trump's net approval with Democrats dropped by 2 points in the new poll.
...
Trump's approval rating overall was unchanged since last week, with 41% of the US public approving of his performance in office and 55% disapproving.

One mustn't read too much into a sample of just 1113 people, but if it's representative, the deplorables just got a little more deplorable, everyone else got a little more disgusted, and nothing changed.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:20 am

Actually, this is good news in a warped sort of way. Republicans are going to vote for him no matter what so those approval numbers don't mean anything except that the Republican Party is truly the party of deplorables. But if Trump's actions are causing his popularity to decline with independents, that's a big win. I don't think he can win just with his base, though it appears that he believes he can.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:47 am

Grifman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:20 am Actually, this is good news in a warped sort of way. Republicans are going to vote for him no matter what so those approval numbers don't mean anything except that the Republican Party is truly the party of deplorables. But if Trump's actions are causing his popularity to decline with independents, that's a big win. I don't think he can win just with his base, though it appears that he believes he can.

I get the view here but how much damage and how much risk that this gets out of control should we tolerate. We are over a year out from an election and 18 months from a potential transition. He has made it about 56% of the way through his term. There is a lot of runway for him still left. Things are historically bad here and sliding worse by the day.

For some context. I'm over in Europe and have seen business decisions and government policy effects due to the situation back home. There is nothing like hearing a government agency in Europe doesn't trust that some data is stored in the US because trust is eroding.

Previously I'd get questions about random peculiarities about our system. Like why do we have so much trouble with healthcare. This last trip I've seen people are really taking a very different look at us. 'What is going on? Wow it is really getting scary over there.'

In sum, we've often looked like a basket case to many of them but now we look broken and dangerous to them. And that was before Trump's fascist rally last night.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:26 am

Can someone find where Omar says "Al Qaeda makes you proud". My Google Fu is weak. I really do try to understand where he pulls his facts and quotes from. He's not always wrong but he never sources and is wrong in compulsive liar or dementia proportions. So I feel like I'm in middle school writing a paper every time he speaks.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:53 am

As usual, he's just making shit up.

Idiots believe what Trump tells them. So they'll never actually look at the facts. One of Trump's campaign staff was on tv recently arguing that because Omar hadn't openly condemned Al Qaeda (she has) meant that she supported them. The amount of dishonesty coming from this administration and its traitorous ilk continues to surprise me on an almost daily basis. Honestly, I'm almost at the point where I'd love to see every one of them sent to prison for treason after Trump leaves office.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:33 am

Can't he get sued for slander if she never said anything like that? For that matter to use that attribution to the response of chants of "Send her home" and to not stop it, isn't that literally the exact point at which free speech ends?

(OTOH, if she did say that then

and sometimes Trump isn't lying... sometimes...)

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:07 pm

Dont worry folks. He is saying he didnt like the chant and spoke quickly to end it. You can see that yourself below.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:57 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:33 am (OTOH, if she did say that then and sometimes Trump isn't lying... sometimes...)

Trump is ALWAYS lying. Always.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:08 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:57 pm
LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:33 am (OTOH, if she did say that then and sometimes Trump isn't lying... sometimes...)
Trump is ALWAYS lying. Always.

Reading OO and my FB feed it would be easy to believe this but it's not true. I almost wish it were, then I wouldn't feel the need to fact check everything all of the time. Occasionally, he's on point and he gets taken out of context. It *does* happen. it's exhausting to have to track down those times but if I don't (or at least don't try) it's going to get held against my all too vocal position on pretty much anything that involves the POtuS or GOP led Senate.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:14 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:08 pm it's exhausting to have to track down those times

Trump is ALWAYS lying. Always.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:16 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:14 pm
LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:08 pm it's exhausting to have to track down those times
Trump is ALWAYS lying. Always.

It's just that when you usually don't even know the truth, your lies sometimes end up being true.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:16 pm