July debates

[tjg_marantz]

Couldn't disagree more. But by all means.

[rittchard]

just a minor followup, I guess a Pete fan bought joe3030.com and has it reroute to peteforamerica.com lol

[LawBeefaroni]

Medicare is driving prevention

Medicare is driving screenings, lifestyle and behavior modifications in 25-50 year olds? I'm not referring to Medicare advising grandpa his cholesterol is too high or that grandma needs lose 25 lbs.

Yes.

Medicare essentially sets the pricing scale for provider visits. When they prioritize primary care, it trickles down to commercial and Medicaid. They are prioitizing primary care.

Most hospitals take Medicare. Medicare is penalizing for readmissions and promoting discharge planning, among other things. Commercial insurance and hospitals are reacting accordingly.

Medicare is pushing the hell out of AHAs, cancer screening, diabetes management, etc. When providers and systems invest millions into P4P and compliance with Medicare, it's not like they are excluding commercial and Medicaid patients. And it's not like commercial and Medicaid aren't following Medicare lead. As the largest payor in the country, they are indeed driving preventive medicine. Maybe not as fast as you might like but they are doing it.

[Kraken]

Also: I hope "Moscow Mitch" sticks.

Castro really offered the best argument yet for impeachment: "We have an election coming up. At the same time, Senator, I think that too many folks in the Senate and in the Congress have been spooked by 1998. I believe that the times are different. And, in fact, I think that folks are making a mistake by not pursuing impeachment. The Mueller report clearly details that he deserves it, and what’s going to happen in the fall of next year, of 2020, if they don’t impeach him, is he’s going to say, “You see. You see. The Democrats didn’t go after me on impeachment. And you know why? Because I didn’t do anything wrong. These folks that always investigate me—they’re always trying to go after me. When it came down to it, they didn’t go after me there because I didn’t do anything wrong.” Conversely, if Mitch McConnell is the one that lets him off the look, we’re going to be able to say, “Well, sure, they impeached him in the House, but his friend Mitch McConnell, Moscow Mitch, let him off the hook.”

[Jaymann]

That's some brilliant analysis right there. Moscow Mitch indeed.

[gameoverman]

On a side topic, I was just thinking how interesting it is the way we judge age in this country. The best athletes in most pro sports are considered done/old when they approach or pass 30 and generally the peak is considered in the 20s (I think?). Mentally I don't know about the rest of you but I felt like I was at my sharpest in my early 30s and have steadily gone downhill through my 40s. Ditto for stamina/energy, and definitely for memory. And yet for some reason for possibly the most demanding job on the planet people keep complaining that someone in their late 30s is too young?

I favor 40s-late 50s for President. In my 30s I was barely wising up, my 20s were a slightly more advanced version of my teens in 'wisdom'. I think once you get past your late 50s maybe you aren't the best choice for a grueling Presidency. Look at how Presidents appear right before they go into office, then how they appear when they leave, especially two term Presidents. It's like a vampire got ahold of them. Being young enough to withstand that is something I consider important.

I didn't pay much attention to this debate, but I did hear as background noise a woman saying how Trump was getting us closer to nuclear war with countries like Russia, China, and NK. She equated to something like a new Cold War. I think taking those kinds of stances are a waste of time. No one I know feels any closer to a nuclear war than they did four years ago. I went to school at a time when people took it so seriously we had drills where we'd get under our desks in school to protect ourselves from the Soviet nukes lol. Are kids doing that today? No, today's drills are for school shooting attacks. If you're a candidate and only get so much time to talk, why bring up nuclear war? That's just dumb.

[El Guapo]

Booker had a very good night. Castro, too. Harris held her own and Gabbard did better than expected. All of them drew blood from Biden, although I don't think he's out of it yet. I went into tonight thinking Harris was the one to beat; now I like Booker better. Harris is starting to rub me the wrong way.

Yeah, I liked Booker a lot. I've liked him for quite awhile, so this mostly reminded me of what I liked about him. Kind of similar to Warren in the "smart sensible progressive" mold, although overall I like Booker's style more (he's more the happy warrior, while Warren's gone more in the Sanders-esque manichean class struggle direction).

They all "drew blood" from Biden in the sense that everyone was going out of their way to hammer him every time they got (which got a little farcical at times). But at the same time I feel like the ultimate impact was really to make it "Biden vs. the progressives" (a framework which CNN and other media outlets are happy to run with, incidentally). Which means that for the most part you have like 18 people competing amongst each other to out-progressive each other, while Biden is left with the moderate / non-progressive (whatever you want to call it) lane by himself. As you know, ultimately progressives aren't even a majority of the Democratic Party. So I imagine Biden's people are perfectly fine if everyone else wants to focus on competing for a minority of primary voters while he's functionally left in a lane by himself, even if it means he takes some knocks and bruises along the way.

[El Guapo]

Booker had a very good night. Castro, too. Harris held her own and Gabbard did better than expected. All of them drew blood from Biden, although I don't think he's out of it yet. I went into tonight thinking Harris was the one to beat; now I like Booker better. Harris is starting to rub me the wrong way.

Yes let's draw blood from the leading candidate and shit on Obama policies. Everything to help Republicans. Very good.

This is not about policy. This is about beating Trump.

This is why D's are so bad at this.

If Democrats nominate an elderly white male centrist with a long and cautious history, they will lose. Biden is the consummate old-school politician. The sooner he is taken out, the better. That probably can't happen until the primaries since he is the Establishment character.

Well, the other problem is that he's pretty popular among Democratic voters. So...no, probably not going away anytime soon.

[El Guapo]

just a minor followup, I guess a Pete fan bought joe3030.com and has it reroute to peteforamerica.com lol

Wouldn't Joe2020 be more useful?

[El Guapo]

Last thought: Andrew Yang has no neck.

Oh, and I thought Gillibrand outright sucked.

[The Meal]

just a minor followup, I guess a Pete fan bought joe3030.com and has it reroute to peteforamerica.com lol

Wouldn't Joe2020 be more useful?

From the closing arguments:

DE BLASIO: If you agree that we can stand up to Donald Trump and we can stand up to the wealthy, then go to taxthehell.com and join us, so we can build a country that puts working people first.

BENNET: Please join me at michaelbennet.com. Thanks for being here tonight.

INSLEE: So I hope you will consider going to jayinslee.com and joining this effort.

GILLIBRAND: Please go to kirstengillibrand.com so I can make the next debate stage.

GABBARD: [no explicit gratuitous cry for money in her closing argument]

CASTRO: If you want to help me build that America for the future, I hope you'll go to juliancastro.com. And on January 20th, 2021, we'll say together, "Adios to Donald Trump." [such a strong Adios]

YANG: If you care more about your family and your kids than my neckwear, enter your zip code at yang2020.com and see what $1,000 a month would mean to your community.

BOOKER: And if you believe like I do, please go to corybooker.com and join the mission.

HARRIS: So please join me at kamalaharris.org.

And then this...

If you agree with me, go to joe30330 and help me in this fight. Thank you very much.

(And he flubbed the third three vocally, though apparently the transcription managed to figure it out.)

[El Guapo]

just a minor followup, I guess a Pete fan bought joe3030.com and has it reroute to peteforamerica.com lol

Wouldn't Joe2020 be more useful?

From the closing arguments:

If you agree with me, go to joe30330 and help me in this fight. Thank you very much

So did Biden misspeak? I'm assuming so?

[The Meal]

So did Biden misspeak? I'm assuming so?

Oh yeah. He clearly forgot to include the word "text" in there. (Also, I updated my post for context.)

[$iljanus]

So did Biden misspeak? I'm assuming so?

Oh yeah. He clearly forgot to include the word "text" in there. (Also, I updated my post for context.)

Ahhh that makes sense. I thought with the use of cyborg enhancements he was running for president in the year 30,000

[hitbyambulance]

Last thought: Andrew Yang has no neck.

Oh, and I thought Gillibrand outright sucked.

what do you have against the suburban mom demographic lol

[Kraken]

Last thought: Andrew Yang has no neck.

Oh, and I thought Gillibrand outright sucked.

Yang got in a few good lines, but he's a one-trick pony. The UBI is not going to fly, at least not now. Maybe after 10 more years of automation and another good recession.

I haven't liked Gillibrand from the start and she reinforces that every time I see her. Same pertains to Klobuchar.

To go for a sexist trifecta: Gabbard was hot. By which I mean, she was the only one visibly sweating.

And yeah, Biden flubbing his tagline illustrates that if the Dems hope to energize youth turnout, Uncle Joe is not the man who'll do it. Bernie doesn't cyber, either, but the kids love him anyway because he's the revolutionary that Biden is the opposite of.

[El Guapo]

Last thought: Andrew Yang has no neck.

Oh, and I thought Gillibrand outright sucked.

Yang got in a few good lines, but he's a one-trick pony. The UBI is not going to fly, at least not now. Maybe after 10 more years of automation and another good recession.

I haven't liked Gillibrand from the start and she reinforces that every time I see her. Same pertains to Klobuchar.

To go for a sexist trifecta: Gabbard was hot. By which I mean, she was the only one visibly sweating.

And yeah, Biden flubbing his tagline illustrates that if the Dems hope to energize youth turnout, Uncle Joe is not the man who'll do it. Bernie doesn't cyber, either, but the kids love him anyway because he's the revolutionary that Biden is the opposite of.

I was a little flummoxed by Yang's - "it's too late, flee to the high ground and save yourselves" answer on climate change.

Gillibrand was just way more vapid and annoying than I was expecting. Her answer on climate change was to recite a stupid canned line about "on day 1 I would Chlorox (tm) the White House, and day two I would start a national conversation on climate change". Ok, great, thanks for showing up Kirsten.

Also I feel like every time De Blasio tried to speak everyone should've just yelled "shut up De Blasio - no one wants you here."

On Biden - I feel like at this point I'm not pro-Biden (I like at Warren, Booker, and maybe Harris better), but I am somewhat anti-anti-Biden. People's reasons for disliking him don't seem super convincing - like, "he messed up a line so youth voters won't turn out in the election" seems like quite a leap.

[tjg_marantz]

https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-msnbc ... re-1452118

[Kraken]

Last thought: Andrew Yang has no neck.

Oh, and I thought Gillibrand outright sucked.

Yang got in a few good lines, but he's a one-trick pony. The UBI is not going to fly, at least not now. Maybe after 10 more years of automation and another good recession.

I haven't liked Gillibrand from the start and she reinforces that every time I see her. Same pertains to Klobuchar.

To go for a sexist trifecta: Gabbard was hot. By which I mean, she was the only one visibly sweating.

And yeah, Biden flubbing his tagline illustrates that if the Dems hope to energize youth turnout, Uncle Joe is not the man who'll do it. Bernie doesn't cyber, either, but the kids love him anyway because he's the revolutionary that Biden is the opposite of.

I was a little flummoxed by Yang's - "it's too late, flee to the high ground and save yourselves" answer on climate change.

Gillibrand was just way more vapid and annoying than I was expecting. Her answer on climate change was to recite a stupid canned line about "on day 1 I would Chlorox (tm) the White House, and day two I would start a national conversation on climate change". Ok, great, thanks for showing up Kirsten.

Also I feel like every time De Blasio tried to speak everyone should've just yelled "shut up De Blasio - no one wants you here."

On Biden - I feel like at this point I'm not pro-Biden (I like at Warren, Booker, and maybe Harris better), but I am somewhat anti-anti-Biden. People's reasons for disliking him don't seem super convincing - like, "he messed up a line so youth voters won't turn out in the election" seems like quite a leap.

It's not cause-and-effect, but an indicator, as I said. It's hard to imagine youngsters working up any enthusiasm for the AntiBernie. Or maybe I'm just projecting my own lack of enthusiasm.

[El Guapo]

Last thought: Andrew Yang has no neck.

Oh, and I thought Gillibrand outright sucked.

Yang got in a few good lines, but he's a one-trick pony. The UBI is not going to fly, at least not now. Maybe after 10 more years of automation and another good recession.

I haven't liked Gillibrand from the start and she reinforces that every time I see her. Same pertains to Klobuchar.

To go for a sexist trifecta: Gabbard was hot. By which I mean, she was the only one visibly sweating.

And yeah, Biden flubbing his tagline illustrates that if the Dems hope to energize youth turnout, Uncle Joe is not the man who'll do it. Bernie doesn't cyber, either, but the kids love him anyway because he's the revolutionary that Biden is the opposite of.

I was a little flummoxed by Yang's - "it's too late, flee to the high ground and save yourselves" answer on climate change.

Gillibrand was just way more vapid and annoying than I was expecting. Her answer on climate change was to recite a stupid canned line about "on day 1 I would Chlorox (tm) the White House, and day two I would start a national conversation on climate change". Ok, great, thanks for showing up Kirsten.

Also I feel like every time De Blasio tried to speak everyone should've just yelled "shut up De Blasio - no one wants you here."

On Biden - I feel like at this point I'm not pro-Biden (I like at Warren, Booker, and maybe Harris better), but I am somewhat anti-anti-Biden. People's reasons for disliking him don't seem super convincing - like, "he messed up a line so youth voters won't turn out in the election" seems like quite a leap.

It's not cause-and-effect, but an indicator, as I said. It's hard to imagine youngsters working up any enthusiasm for the AntiBernie. Or maybe I'm just projecting my own lack of enthusiasm.

Yeah, I imagine Biden would generate less enthusiasm among young voters. But probably better among older voters (who have higher voting rates). How does that come out in the wash? I don't really know (though there are probably some clues in Biden's large polling lead in the primary as a start), but I don't see any real reason to assume that Biden can't win (or even that he's less likely to win).

[malchior]

Yeah, I imagine Biden would generate less enthusiasm among young voters. But probably better among older voters (who have higher voting rates). How does that come out in the wash? I don't really know (though there are probably some clues in Biden's large polling lead in the primary as a start), but I don't see any real reason to assume that Biden can't win (or even that he's less likely to win).

The polls look good at the national level which isn't surprising. I don't think it debatable that he isn't popular but this system doesn't work that way. You have to look in the battlegrounds. Until we get good data there it is all speculation. The problem is we need to figure this out now and the pollsters generally won't focus on this level of data until later. Trump has an advantage here. They know who the candidate is and can focus on the places they need to *now*. The individual campaigns on the Dem side have to contend with the nominations and also the local level which costs more resources. That is another reason why this clown car is potentially disastrous. At the least it is risky.

In the big picture though, I find it hard to argue that Trump and the way the media covered him in 2016 were not a huge problem. Now that he is President he has even more tools at his disposal and that problem is amplified. I am thinking that Biden like Clinton is eminently qualified but doesn't have the chops to go toe to toe with Trump. He is a fucking moron but his penchant for lying and the media being unable to deal with that *still* mean he is still a massive danger.

In the end, we are forced to see how the 'debate' over the nominee shapes up while he gets his ducks in a row. However, unless they get someone who can carry the fight to Trump and is SQUEAKY CLEAN to keep the DOJ off them, I can't shake the feeling we will be looking down the barrel at the end of our current form of government. The danger is real and the Democrats have to wise up to that reality.

[LawBeefaroni]

100% agree.

The Dems and their supporters make a lot of naive assumptions. That the better man/woman will win. That cheaters don't win. That you just have to give voters facts and they will eventually make the right choice. That a simple majority will win the presidency.

[ImLawBoy]

Spoiler:

Donald Trump Jr.
@DonaldJTrumpJr
· Jul 31
Comedy Central should really be the host of the next round of these debates. #DemDebate

Comedy Central
@ComedyCentral
Nah, last time there was a joke at a debate it became president.

[tjg_marantz]

Rekt

[malchior]

Good lord is Cillizza a hack. You can't put aside that the 'attack' on Harris was mostly junk but on top his read on it is borderline malpractice with a light touch of misogyny. If this is what we are going to get from these media 'analysts' then we are fucked again.

[El Guapo]

They should really start putting "analysis" in quotes for Cillizza's articles.