Dancing the Charleston into Super Tuesday

[GungHo]

Massachusetts of all places - for Biden! Terrible news for Warren, and not much better for Sanders, who was believed to be in the drivers seat there.

I am embarrassed for my state. Biden, seriously?

At this point I'm just waiting for delegate totals. Warren isn't winning anywhere, but is she scoring enough points to be a relevant #3? Won't know until tomorrow.

My mom (in suburban Boston) voted for Biden. So if he won by 1 vote, blame it on her.

Though I'm pretty sure that my dad voted for Sanders (outside chance of Gabbard).

Most surprising of all: Biden won the Berkshires. Granted that's only 10% of the state's population, but it's generally more liberal than Cambridge (where Warren won, thanks to those pointy-headed college types). This suggests that liberals put (mis?)perceived electability over their own beliefs. That ought to make the Biden people happy.

I'm gonna do the #VoteBlueNoMatterWho thing but I just don't see how anyone can honestly, down in their gut, think that Bernie can win a national election. not saying that is your position btw. More just thinking out loud.
I'm not crazy about Biden (I honestly haven't even so much as liked a president since HW, though Obama is looking better by the day...) but Biden doesn't alienate people the way Bernie (and his minions especially) do. The goal has to be defeat trump. The only goal. Nothing else matters.

[em2nought]

I'd rather they danced the Carlton, but it's too new for these geezers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbSCWgZQf_g

[Holman]

I guess Sanders' ideas are too extreme for the voters?

Yeah. There's a fine line between the kind of reform people are comfortable with and what people perceive as radical change. From what I hear from people I know, the main complaint is Sanders promises 'free' this or that, and new programs for this or that, and doesn't make clear who is going to pay for it. Saying he'll make the wealthy pay is unconvincing because when was the last time the wealthy were forced to give up a slice of the pie? Younger people, who are generally not of the wealthy class, buy into it of course.

I run with a Warren crowd. The people I know aren’t opposed to his goals so much as realistic about his chances of achieving them, and that’s even before the questions of his electability and his baggage come up.

A lot of Bernie supporters appear to believe a president can just Declare Socialism and there it is.

[Unagi]

Massachusetts of all places - for Biden! Terrible news for Warren, and not much better for Sanders, who was believed to be in the drivers seat there.

I am embarrassed for my state. Biden, seriously?

At this point I'm just waiting for delegate totals. Warren isn't winning anywhere, but is she scoring enough points to be a relevant #3? Won't know until tomorrow.

She needed to drop when the other two did.
You are in a bubble.

[stessier]

Massachusetts of all places - for Biden! Terrible news for Warren, and not much better for Sanders, who was believed to be in the drivers seat there.

I am embarrassed for my state. Biden, seriously?

At this point I'm just waiting for delegate totals. Warren isn't winning anywhere, but is she scoring enough points to be a relevant #3? Won't know until tomorrow.

She needed to drop when the other two did.
You are in a bubble.

I agree. I'm pretty sure Mayor Pete has more delegates than she does and got nearly as many as her yesterday.

[Octavious]

People went apeshit because we tried to give people healthcare and I'm supposed to buy medicare for all? I don't want him to be a canidate because he's wayyyyy to far left. We need a moderate to ride out Trump dying.

[Smoove_B]

I'm seeing scattered reports online that people waited 7+ hours in parts of Texas to vote yesterday? As if we needed more evidence that the entire system is broken. 7 hours to vote? That's beyond unacceptable.

[Kraken]

I guess Sanders' ideas are too extreme for the voters?

Not his ideas; those poll well, and many are mainstream now (compared to 4 years ago). For example, M4A remains controversial, but a public option is not. It's Bernie himself who's too extreme, with his "my way or the highway" attitude.

[malchior]

I guess Sanders' ideas are too extreme for the voters?

Not his ideas; those poll well, and many are mainstream now (compared to 4 years ago). For example, M4A remains controversial, but a public option is not. It's Bernie himself who's too extreme, with his "my way or the highway" attitude.

Exactly. Plus he has no actual ability to execute on anything. He has no record building coalitions.

[El Guapo]

I guess Sanders' ideas are too extreme for the voters?

Not his ideas; those poll well, and many are mainstream now (compared to 4 years ago). For example, M4A remains controversial, but a public option is not. It's Bernie himself who's too extreme, with his "my way or the highway" attitude.

I think the real missed opportunity for Sanders was to run in 2020 as a victorious elder statesman. Basically "we were an insurgent campaign in 2016, and while we didn't get the nomination, we brought our ideas to party leadership and we won, turning the party platform into the most progressive in the party's history. While not everyone is on board with my M4A, we won because now everyone is debating their own versions of my plan. So now's the time to unify and take the fight to Donald Trump and get our vision enacted." Reach out to DNC leadership, maybe even formally become a Democrat. I suspect he'd lose some of his fringe support, but I suspect he'd have gained much more by not campaigning as an insurgent radical.

But oh well. And anyway, he's still got a reasonable shot at Biden in a one on one race.

[Kraken]

Massachusetts of all places - for Biden! Terrible news for Warren, and not much better for Sanders, who was believed to be in the drivers seat there.

I am embarrassed for my state. Biden, seriously?

At this point I'm just waiting for delegate totals. Warren isn't winning anywhere, but is she scoring enough points to be a relevant #3? Won't know until tomorrow.

She needed to drop when the other two did.
You are in a bubble.

Sure I am. I don't understand all the ins and outs of convention and delegate rules. I've read that if Warren can take 150+ delegates into the convention with the threat of giving them to Sanders, she can stop the Biden train. But that was before the Super Tuesday blowout, and might not be viable anymore after her failure to take a single state. I imagine that what she's discussing with her campaign right now is (a) can she play a spoiler role? and (b) should she?

[El Guapo]

Massachusetts of all places - for Biden! Terrible news for Warren, and not much better for Sanders, who was believed to be in the drivers seat there.

I am embarrassed for my state. Biden, seriously?

At this point I'm just waiting for delegate totals. Warren isn't winning anywhere, but is she scoring enough points to be a relevant #3? Won't know until tomorrow.

She needed to drop when the other two did.
You are in a bubble.

Sure I am. I don't understand all the ins and outs of convention and delegate rules. I've read that if Warren can take 150+ delegates into the convention with the threat of giving them to Sanders, she can stop the Biden train. But that was before the Super Tuesday blowout, and might not be viable anymore after her failure to take a single state. I imagine that what she's discussing with her campaign right now is (a) can she play a spoiler role? and (b) should she?

Seems unlikely that she would be able to deny Biden a pledged delegate majority going into the convention (though Biden may well fall short of such a majority). I wonder whether her ideal scenario would be for Biden and Sanders to go into the convention roughly tied, with her in third, and then put herself forth as sort of a compromise / unity choice between the two. But I think for that to work, she would have to have a stronger showing that she has - I doubt people are going to want to anoint a candidate that has thoroughly failed during the primary campaign. And it doesn't seem like she has a plausible route to making that kind of strong showing.

[Kraken]

Massachusetts of all places - for Biden! Terrible news for Warren, and not much better for Sanders, who was believed to be in the drivers seat there.

I am embarrassed for my state. Biden, seriously?

At this point I'm just waiting for delegate totals. Warren isn't winning anywhere, but is she scoring enough points to be a relevant #3? Won't know until tomorrow.

She needed to drop when the other two did.
You are in a bubble.

Sure I am. I don't understand all the ins and outs of convention and delegate rules. I've read that if Warren can take 150+ delegates into the convention with the threat of giving them to Sanders, she can stop the Biden train. But that was before the Super Tuesday blowout, and might not be viable anymore after her failure to take a single state. I imagine that what she's discussing with her campaign right now is (a) can she play a spoiler role? and (b) should she?

Seems unlikely that she would be able to deny Biden a pledged delegate majority going into the convention (though Biden may well fall short of such a majority). I wonder whether her ideal scenario would be for Biden and Sanders to go into the convention roughly tied, with her in third, and then put herself forth as sort of a compromise / unity choice between the two. But I think for that to work, she would have to have a stronger showing that she has - I doubt people are going to want to anoint a candidate that has thoroughly failed during the primary campaign. And it doesn't seem like she has a plausible route to making that kind of strong showing.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. We'll see if she gets enough delegates in CA and TX to still have a kingmaker role, or if she's just background noise.

[Kurth]

I guess Sanders' ideas are too extreme for the voters?

Not his ideas; those poll well, and many are mainstream now (compared to 4 years ago). For example, M4A remains controversial, but a public option is not. It's Bernie himself who's too extreme, with his "my way or the highway" attitude.

I don't disagree that Bernie himself is seen as too extreme and his attitude is alienating. But I think it's the echo-chamber effect that has many thinking that his ideas are mainstream. I just don't see that.

Taken out of context and in the abstract, lots of people sign on to "the idea" of M4A or free college or cancelling medical debt or an estate tax on "millionaires and billionaires," but it's not telling us much to take those ideas out of context and in the abstract. I mean, really, are the vast majority of people that are staring down scary college tuition and dealing with medical debt really going to say, no, I hate the idea of free college or cancelling debt? If you ran for student president in high school on a platform of a 4 day school week, that idea would probably poll pretty well in the abstract, too. But if you disclosed that that policy would also require the school year to run through a good chunk of your summer vacation due to state requirements on the number of required school days annually, I'm pretty sure that support would evaporate.

I just don't think polling on Bernie's ideas - to the extent is suggests these ideas are now "mainstream" - really tells us much. People aren't tuned in to the details, and they're not keeping their eyes on how his biggest ideas would actually be implemented.

I thought this Axios article, "A Reality Check on Bernie Sanders' Biggest Ideas" laid out some of those practical, contextual considerations that are not adequately reflected in the polls.

While I buy that extreme income inequality is a significant challenge and one that needs to be addressed, I continue to believe (hope) that "mainstream" thinking in this country remains that we are and should continue to be a society founded on the principles of liberal individualism and free market capitalism with the backstop of a generous social safety net.

[Combustible Lemur]

I'm seeing scattered reports online that people waited 7+ hours in parts of Texas to vote yesterday? As if we needed more evidence that the entire system is broken. 7 hours to vote? That's beyond unacceptable.

Don't be silly. it's working exactly as intended. Dense urban, diverse areas clearly don't need more polling locations, and it would just encourage all those illegals to rush the polls and rig the election.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[noxiousdog]

I'm seeing scattered reports online that people waited 7+ hours in parts of Texas to vote yesterday? As if we needed more evidence that the entire system is broken. 7 hours to vote? That's beyond unacceptable.

Fwiw, coming third hand from a teenager, a mom waited 4 hours to vote. We waited 15 minutes in the same general area. There were at least 5 polling locations within a 3 mile radius.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Skinypupy]

I'm seeing scattered reports online that people waited 7+ hours in parts of Texas to vote yesterday? As if we needed more evidence that the entire system is broken. 7 hours to vote? That's beyond unacceptable.

The last voter at Texas Southern University has walked out of the voting booth. It took Hervis Rogers nearly 7 hours to vote tonight.

[Defiant]

They must have been doing this on purpose': Why this man waited 5.5 hours to vote

Broken machines and only having two staffers causing a bottleneck.

[ImLawBoy]

I'm seeing scattered reports online that people waited 7+ hours in parts of Texas to vote yesterday? As if we needed more evidence that the entire system is broken. 7 hours to vote? That's beyond unacceptable.

Fwiw, coming third hand from a teenager, a mom waited 4 hours to vote. We waited 15 minutes in the same general area. There were at least 5 polling locations within a 3 mile radius.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Can you choose which polling place to use? Around here, you have to go to your assigned polling place.

[Unagi]

I'm seeing scattered reports online that people waited 7+ hours in parts of Texas to vote yesterday? As if we needed more evidence that the entire system is broken. 7 hours to vote? That's beyond unacceptable.

The last voter at Texas Southern University has walked out of the voting booth. It took Hervis Rogers nearly 7 hours to vote tonight.

You’d think after a few hours in the booth, they would have asked Hervis to step aside and let some people vote that weren’t going to take that long.

[GungHo]

I'm seeing scattered reports online that people waited 7+ hours in parts of Texas to vote yesterday? As if we needed more evidence that the entire system is broken. 7 hours to vote? That's beyond unacceptable.

Fwiw, coming third hand from a teenager, a mom waited 4 hours to vote. We waited 15 minutes in the same general area. There were at least 5 polling locations within a 3 mile radius.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

I waited 0.0 seconds. Of course I voted early and I live in the suburbs.
The GOP wants me to vote. Or at least they used to.

I think the compromise is to not have so many early voting stations but dramatically increase them on actual voting day. We didn't add any in my area for Tuesday. Just kept the same 3 we had for 2 weeks of early voting. 1 early voting station would probably be plenty for my area. Though tbh I don't know the numbers on any of this. Just conjecture

[Combustible Lemur]

I'm seeing scattered reports online that people waited 7+ hours in parts of Texas to vote yesterday? As if we needed more evidence that the entire system is broken. 7 hours to vote? That's beyond unacceptable.

Fwiw, coming third hand from a teenager, a mom waited 4 hours to vote. We waited 15 minutes in the same general area. There were at least 5 polling locations within a 3 mile radius.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Can you choose which polling place to use? Around here, you have to go to your assigned polling place.

You can vote anywhere in your county.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[hitbyambulance]

WA state has vote by mail, and as of last year they finally made it so you don't have to pay postage! (i would bring them to a ballot drop box so as to not pay the postage [effectively a poll tax])

[Kraken]

I guess Sanders' ideas are too extreme for the voters?

Not his ideas; those poll well, and many are mainstream now (compared to 4 years ago). For example, M4A remains controversial, but a public option is not. It's Bernie himself who's too extreme, with his "my way or the highway" attitude.

I don't disagree that Bernie himself is seen as too extreme and his attitude is alienating. But I think it's the echo-chamber effect that has many thinking that his ideas are mainstream. I just don't see that.

Taken out of context and in the abstract, lots of people sign on to "the idea" of M4A or free college or cancelling medical debt or an estate tax on "millionaires and billionaires," but it's not telling us much to take those ideas out of context and in the abstract. I mean, really, are the vast majority of people that are staring down scary college tuition and dealing with medical debt really going to say, no, I hate the idea of free college or cancelling debt? If you ran for student president in high school on a platform of a 4 day school week, that idea would probably poll pretty well in the abstract, too. But if you disclosed that that policy would also require the school year to run through a good chunk of your summer vacation due to state requirements on the number of required school days annually, I'm pretty sure that support would evaporate.

I just don't think polling on Bernie's ideas - to the extent is suggests these ideas are now "mainstream" - really tells us much. People aren't tuned in to the details, and they're not keeping their eyes on how his biggest ideas would actually be implemented.

I thought this Axios article, "A Reality Check on Bernie Sanders' Biggest Ideas" laid out some of those practical, contextual considerations that are not adequately reflected in the polls.

While I buy that extreme income inequality is a significant challenge and one that needs to be addressed, I continue to believe (hope) that "mainstream" thinking in this country remains that we are and should continue to be a society founded on the principles of liberal individualism and free market capitalism with the backstop of a generous social safety net.

Before Bernie's 2016 run, these ideas were considered way out there: single-payer healthcare (or even adding a public option to Obamacare), a $15 minimum wage, tuition-free college, student loan forgiveness, raising taxes on the rich, and breaking up big tech. Now they are all part of the Democratic platform, or at least being openly discussed.

[El Guapo]

I guess Sanders' ideas are too extreme for the voters?

Not his ideas; those poll well, and many are mainstream now (compared to 4 years ago). For example, M4A remains controversial, but a public option is not. It's Bernie himself who's too extreme, with his "my way or the highway" attitude.

I don't disagree that Bernie himself is seen as too extreme and his attitude is alienating. But I think it's the echo-chamber effect that has many thinking that his ideas are mainstream. I just don't see that.

Taken out of context and in the abstract, lots of people sign on to "the idea" of M4A or free college or cancelling medical debt or an estate tax on "millionaires and billionaires," but it's not telling us much to take those ideas out of context and in the abstract. I mean, really, are the vast majority of people that are staring down scary college tuition and dealing with medical debt really going to say, no, I hate the idea of free college or cancelling debt? If you ran for student president in high school on a platform of a 4 day school week, that idea would probably poll pretty well in the abstract, too. But if you disclosed that that policy would also require the school year to run through a good chunk of your summer vacation due to state requirements on the number of required school days annually, I'm pretty sure that support would evaporate.

I just don't think polling on Bernie's ideas - to the extent is suggests these ideas are now "mainstream" - really tells us much. People aren't tuned in to the details, and they're not keeping their eyes on how his biggest ideas would actually be implemented.

I thought this Axios article, "A Reality Check on Bernie Sanders' Biggest Ideas" laid out some of those practical, contextual considerations that are not adequately reflected in the polls.

While I buy that extreme income inequality is a significant challenge and one that needs to be addressed, I continue to believe (hope) that "mainstream" thinking in this country remains that we are and should continue to be a society founded on the principles of liberal individualism and free market capitalism with the backstop of a generous social safety net.

Before Bernie's 2016 run, these ideas were considered way out there: single-payer healthcare (or even adding a public option to Obamacare), a $15 minimum wage, tuition-free college, student loan forgiveness, raising taxes on the rich, and breaking up big tech. Now they are all part of the Democratic platform, or at least being openly discussed.

FWIW the public option was discussed at detail and came reasonably close to becoming law (and probably would have become law if either Scott Brown hadn't won or they'd abolished the filibuster) in 2009 during the original passage of the ACA, so that idea certainly wasn't "way out there" in 2016.

[Kraken]

I guess Sanders' ideas are too extreme for the voters?

Not his ideas; those poll well, and many are mainstream now (compared to 4 years ago). For example, M4A remains controversial, but a public option is not. It's Bernie himself who's too extreme, with his "my way or the highway" attitude.

I don't disagree that Bernie himself is seen as too extreme and his attitude is alienating. But I think it's the echo-chamber effect that has many thinking that his ideas are mainstream. I just don't see that.

Taken out of context and in the abstract, lots of people sign on to "the idea" of M4A or free college or cancelling medical debt or an estate tax on "millionaires and billionaires," but it's not telling us much to take those ideas out of context and in the abstract. I mean, really, are the vast majority of people that are staring down scary college tuition and dealing with medical debt really going to say, no, I hate the idea of free college or cancelling debt? If you ran for student president in high school on a platform of a 4 day school week, that idea would probably poll pretty well in the abstract, too. But if you disclosed that that policy would also require the school year to run through a good chunk of your summer vacation due to state requirements on the number of required school days annually, I'm pretty sure that support would evaporate.

I just don't think polling on Bernie's ideas - to the extent is suggests these ideas are now "mainstream" - really tells us much. People aren't tuned in to the details, and they're not keeping their eyes on how his biggest ideas would actually be implemented.

I thought this Axios article, "A Reality Check on Bernie Sanders' Biggest Ideas" laid out some of those practical, contextual considerations that are not adequately reflected in the polls.

While I buy that extreme income inequality is a significant challenge and one that needs to be addressed, I continue to believe (hope) that "mainstream" thinking in this country remains that we are and should continue to be a society founded on the principles of liberal individualism and free market capitalism with the backstop of a generous social safety net.

Before Bernie's 2016 run, these ideas were considered way out there: single-payer healthcare (or even adding a public option to Obamacare), a $15 minimum wage, tuition-free college, student loan forgiveness, raising taxes on the rich, and breaking up big tech. Now they are all part of the Democratic platform, or at least being openly discussed.

FWIW the public option was discussed at detail and came reasonably close to becoming law (and probably would have become law if either Scott Brown hadn't won or they'd abolished the filibuster) in 2009 during the original passage of the ACA, so that idea certainly wasn't "way out there" in 2016.

After it was rejected the public option was labeled politically impossible and wishlisted. Now, thanks to Bernie putting M4A in play, it looks like the conservative thing to do. (Although maybe not in the Biden camp.)

[El Guapo]

I guess Sanders' ideas are too extreme for the voters?

Not his ideas; those poll well, and many are mainstream now (compared to 4 years ago). For example, M4A remains controversial, but a public option is not. It's Bernie himself who's too extreme, with his "my way or the highway" attitude.

I don't disagree that Bernie himself is seen as too extreme and his attitude is alienating. But I think it's the echo-chamber effect that has many thinking that his ideas are mainstream. I just don't see that.

Taken out of context and in the abstract, lots of people sign on to "the idea" of M4A or free college or cancelling medical debt or an estate tax on "millionaires and billionaires," but it's not telling us much to take those ideas out of context and in the abstract. I mean, really, are the vast majority of people that are staring down scary college tuition and dealing with medical debt really going to say, no, I hate the idea of free college or cancelling debt? If you ran for student president in high school on a platform of a 4 day school week, that idea would probably poll pretty well in the abstract, too. But if you disclosed that that policy would also require the school year to run through a good chunk of your summer vacation due to state requirements on the number of required school days annually, I'm pretty sure that support would evaporate.

I just don't think polling on Bernie's ideas - to the extent is suggests these ideas are now "mainstream" - really tells us much. People aren't tuned in to the details, and they're not keeping their eyes on how his biggest ideas would actually be implemented.

I thought this Axios article, "A Reality Check on Bernie Sanders' Biggest Ideas" laid out some of those practical, contextual considerations that are not adequately reflected in the polls.

While I buy that extreme income inequality is a significant challenge and one that needs to be addressed, I continue to believe (hope) that "mainstream" thinking in this country remains that we are and should continue to be a society founded on the principles of liberal individualism and free market capitalism with the backstop of a generous social safety net.

Before Bernie's 2016 run, these ideas were considered way out there: single-payer healthcare (or even adding a public option to Obamacare), a $15 minimum wage, tuition-free college, student loan forgiveness, raising taxes on the rich, and breaking up big tech. Now they are all part of the Democratic platform, or at least being openly discussed.

FWIW the public option was discussed at detail and came reasonably close to becoming law (and probably would have become law if either Scott Brown hadn't won or they'd abolished the filibuster) in 2009 during the original passage of the ACA, so that idea certainly wasn't "way out there" in 2016.

After it was rejected the public option was labeled politically impossible and wishlisted. Now, thanks to Bernie putting M4A in play, it looks like the conservative thing to do. (Although maybe not in the Biden camp.)

The Democrats haven't controlled both branches of Congress (and the presidency) since 2010, so of course it (and lots of other stuff) immediately became politically impossible. But it never left the Democratic mainstream as a good idea. And indeed, Biden's health plan includes a public option, as did Hillary's in 2016.

[noxiousdog]

I'm seeing scattered reports online that people waited 7+ hours in parts of Texas to vote yesterday? As if we needed more evidence that the entire system is broken. 7 hours to vote? That's beyond unacceptable.

Fwiw, coming third hand from a teenager, a mom waited 4 hours to vote. We waited 15 minutes in the same general area. There were at least 5 polling locations within a 3 mile radius.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Can you choose which polling place to use? Around here, you have to go to your assigned polling place.

Yes. Any one in the county was ok. On real election day, that's not the case.