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Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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Ralph-Wiggum
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Excited to see what it'll be in mid-January. Maybe we can get it over 40%!
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Smoove_B »

Things are going great in Ohio:
About 60 percent of nursing home staff in Ohio have elected not to take the COVID-19 vaccine, Gov. Mike DeWine (R) said Wednesday.

DeWine made the comment during a news briefing, in which he was discussing the pace of vaccinations in the state.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Kraken »

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:04 pm Things are going great in Ohio:
About 60 percent of nursing home staff in Ohio have elected not to take the COVID-19 vaccine, Gov. Mike DeWine (R) said Wednesday.

DeWine made the comment during a news briefing, in which he was discussing the pace of vaccinations in the state.
Can they not make it a condition of employment?
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Smoove_B »

Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:21 pmCan they not make it a condition of employment?
If they can do it for an annual influenza shot, I don't know why it would be an issue here. I'm sure someone will and I'm also sure it will go to court.

Incidentally, your state was the one that figured out how to to it (mandate the annual influenza shot) after the State of NY was shot down by the court. The trick is that it has to be a hospital policy, not something the state requires. So really, if these nursing homes (their parent organizations) aren't requiring the shots, then nothing will be done.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Kraken »

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:26 pm
Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:21 pmCan they not make it a condition of employment?
If they can do it for an annual influenza shot, I don't know why it would be an issue here. I'm sure someone will and I'm also sure it will go to court.

Incidentally, your state was the one that figured out how to to it (mandate the annual influenza shot) after the State of NY was shot down by the court. The trick is that it has to be a hospital policy, not something the state requires. So really, if these nursing homes (their parent organizations) aren't requiring the shots, then nothing will be done.
One would think that the facilities should be most adamant about keeping their residents safe. This is a matter of life and death. I just don't get it.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Smoove_B »

You'd think. But as I mentioned earlier, until hospitals started mandating it, flu vaccination compliance was around 50% for front line medical workers (i.e. any medical staff in direct patient care). There are a significant number of medical professionals that apparently believe (like Charles Megis) that their profession somehow makes them immune to spreading disease.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by malchior »

~10 people in my immediate orbit all tested positive over the last few days. Most are linked to an open door Christmas party thrown by some my friends. My wife had 4 separate people say it was small and people wore masks and kept their distance. How'd that work out. Some others are new coworkers who just tested positive. I'm so tired. Im waiting for more. It is a pure miracle so far that my wife's family didn't get it based on their behavior. We were the only ones not to go to Christmas dinner to much kvetching.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by malchior »

Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:29 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:26 pm
Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:21 pmCan they not make it a condition of employment?
If they can do it for an annual influenza shot, I don't know why it would be an issue here. I'm sure someone will and I'm also sure it will go to court.

Incidentally, your state was the one that figured out how to to it (mandate the annual influenza shot) after the State of NY was shot down by the court. The trick is that it has to be a hospital policy, not something the state requires. So really, if these nursing homes (their parent organizations) aren't requiring the shots, then nothing will be done.
One would think that the facilities should be most adamant about keeping their residents safe. This is a matter of life and death. I just don't get it.
One major problem is likely vaccine availability. If you made it a condition of employment then everyone ideally would subject to it. If not everyone can get it then you open yourself to questions about how people are being selected. It isn't insurmountable but it also isn't straightforward.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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malchior wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:04 pm
Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:29 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:26 pm
Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:21 pmCan they not make it a condition of employment?
If they can do it for an annual influenza shot, I don't know why it would be an issue here. I'm sure someone will and I'm also sure it will go to court.

Incidentally, your state was the one that figured out how to to it (mandate the annual influenza shot) after the State of NY was shot down by the court. The trick is that it has to be a hospital policy, not something the state requires. So really, if these nursing homes (their parent organizations) aren't requiring the shots, then nothing will be done.
One would think that the facilities should be most adamant about keeping their residents safe. This is a matter of life and death. I just don't get it.
One major problem is likely vaccine availability. If you made it a condition of employment then everyone ideally would subject to it. If not everyone can get it then you open yourself to questions about how people are being selected. It isn't insurmountable but it also isn't straightforward.
I work in a hgospital system in Ohio, and we have three phases, direct care is phase one, work in hospital but not direct care, and then everyone else. I am phase two, and signed up for my spot in line. But it is not mandatory, the flu shot is, and I know on my team we get 100% compliance. <shrug> Odd that nursing home staff is turning it down.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Isgrimnur »

NPR
A Milwaukee pharmacist was arrested Thursday and accused of "tampering with and causing the destruction" of more than 550 doses of the Moderna vaccine against the coronavirus last week, Grafton, Wis., police confirmed.

In a statement, Grafton Police Department officials said the pharmacist — now fired from the Advocate Aurora Health hospital system — was arrested on recommended charges of first-degree recklessly endangering safety, adulterating a prescription drug and criminal damage to property.
...
The pharmacist told investigators he knew "that people who received the vaccinations would think they had been vaccinated against the virus when in fact they were not," officials said.

The value of the spoiled doses is estimated to be between $8,000 and $11,000.
In WI, criminal damage to property over $2,500 is a class 1 felony.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Zaxxon »

malchior wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:04 pm
Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:29 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:26 pm
Kraken wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:21 pmCan they not make it a condition of employment?
If they can do it for an annual influenza shot, I don't know why it would be an issue here. I'm sure someone will and I'm also sure it will go to court.

Incidentally, your state was the one that figured out how to to it (mandate the annual influenza shot) after the State of NY was shot down by the court. The trick is that it has to be a hospital policy, not something the state requires. So really, if these nursing homes (their parent organizations) aren't requiring the shots, then nothing will be done.
One would think that the facilities should be most adamant about keeping their residents safe. This is a matter of life and death. I just don't get it.
One major problem is likely vaccine availability. If you made it a condition of employment then everyone ideally would subject to it. If not everyone can get it then you open yourself to questions about how people are being selected. It isn't insurmountable but it also isn't straightforward.
I believe it would also be problematic to make it mandatory before it's received full FDA approval (currently it's approved for emergency use).
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/heal ... elays.html
Here’s Why Distribution of the Vaccine Is Taking Longer Than Expected
Health officials and hospitals are struggling with a lack of resources. Holiday staffing and saving doses for nursing homes are also contributing to delays.
Compounding the challenges, federal officials say they do not fully understand the cause of the delays. But state health officials and hospital leaders throughout the country pointed to several factors.
The holiday season has meant that people are off work and clinics have reduced hours, slowing the pace of vaccine administration. In Florida, for example, the demand for the vaccines dipped over the Christmas holiday and is expected to dip again over New Year’s, Gov. Ron DeSantis said on Wednesday.
Honestly, I would have hoped they would have enough volunteers to run things 24/7.
And critically, public health experts say, federal officials have left many of the details of the final stage of the vaccine distribution process, such as scheduling and staffing, to overstretched local health officials and hospitals.

In one notable blunder, 42 people in Boone County, W.Va., who were scheduled to receive the coronavirus vaccine on Wednesday instead were mistakenly injected with an experimental monoclonal antibody treatment.
The task of administering thousands of vaccines is daunting for health departments that have already been overburdened by responding to the pandemic. In Montgomery County, Md., the local health department has recruited extra staff to help manage vaccine distribution, said Travis Gayles, the county health officer.
Complicating matters, the county health department gets just a few days of notice each week of the timing of its vaccine shipments. When the latest batch arrived, Dr. Gayles’s team scrambled to contact people eligible for the vaccine and to set up clinics to give out the doses as fast as possible.
In a news conference on Wednesday, Operation Warp Speed officials said they expected the pace of the rollout to accelerate significantly once pharmacies begin offering vaccines in their stores. The federal government has reached agreements with a number of pharmacy chains — including Costco, Walmart and CVS — to administer vaccines once they become more widely available. So far, 40,000 pharmacy locations have enrolled in that program
t may be more difficult, public health officials say, to vaccinate the next wave of people, which will most likely include many more older Americans as well as younger people with health problems and frontline workers. Among the fresh challenges: How will these people be scheduled for their vaccination appointments? How will they provide documentation that they have a medical condition or a job that makes them eligible to get vaccinated? And how will pharmacies ensure that people show up, and that they can do so safely?
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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I know that my healthcare system is using non-clinical clinicians to help with distrubution. IE - I have RN's that report to me in IT, they are helping with giving shots, and my non-clinical team members are volunteering to help schedule people to get the vaccine.

But I think that staffing will always be an issue, and the holidays are not helping, nor is the huge upswing in patients in the hospitals. So lots of reasons, and even with a ton of volunteers, there is still going to be issues...

And did you see the moron who destroyed the vaccine in WI was a pharmacist? That suprises me somewhat, but I can see how that person would have access to the medication fairly easily.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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Honestly, I would have hoped they would have enough volunteers to run things 24/7.
This is a big ask during an unprecedented time. In NJ they hired thousands of untrained, unqualified people to work as contract tracers (which has been a mess) and now they're asking doctors, nurses, EMTs and anyone with medical training to volunteer to work at these mega sites. Again, they're asking a group of people that have been under siege at various points throughout the year, most recently for at least the last 2 months to take a break from whatever their job duties are right now as it relates to COVID clinical response to volunteer time to assist clinics provide vaccinations.

Generally speaking, asking people to volunteer during normal times is difficult. Asking a people to volunteer during a protracted crisis is harder. Asking a specific group of people that are already involved in dealing with this to additionally volunteer is...puzzling.

I have training and actual experience in contract tracing. I have training and actual experience in running small-scale clinics. I've been told I am not needed by the state, so I'm sitting idle. It boggles the mind.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by LawBeefaroni »

We need a healthcare national guard. Like people who train and are qualified in basics duties like administering vaccines or taking vitals. In the event of a crisis, they can be called up to fill in to free up more trained workers to handle higher level tasks.


I have 3 RNs working desk jobs. They were called to standby durong the first wave but not now because we're staffed. But there is no way to get them outside the organization to a supersite or whatever. They probably wouldn't be comfortable on a unit but they could certainly administer vaccines.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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LawBeefaroni wrote:We need a healthcare national guard. Like people who train and are qualified in basics duties like administering vaccines or taking vitals. In the event of a crisis, they can be called up to fill in to free up more trained workers to handle higher level tasks.


I have 3 RNs working desk jobs. They were called to standby durong the first wave but not now because we're staffed. But there is no way to get them outside the organization to a supersite or whatever. They probably wouldn't be comfortable on a unit but they could certainly administer vaccines.
We have the US Commissioned Corps https://www.usphs.gov/ which can certainly provide training on the local level for vaccine administration and can administer vaccines.

But the disconnect between Federal responsibility and the states killed us. We have the capability for a coordinated response but this ridiculous wall between what the Federal government is responsible for and the role of the states is such bullshit in a worldwide health emergency.

I'm hoping that with the Biden administration the "you're on your own" mentality will be fixed. But that's going to take time. Until then, mask up!
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Smoove_B »

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:44 amI believe it would also be problematic to make it mandatory before it's received full FDA approval (currently it's approved for emergency use).
Maybe. Again, we'd likely need a judge to hash it out. Here's another sample, this one coming from California:
At St. Elizabeth Community Hospital in Tehama County, fewer than half of the 700 hospital workers eligible for the vaccine were willing to take the shot when it was first offered. At Providence Holy Cross Medical Center in Mission Hills, one in five frontline nurses and doctors have declined the shot. Roughly 20% to 40% of L.A. County’s frontline workers who were offered the vaccine did the same, according to county public health officials.

So many frontline workers in Riverside County have refused the vaccine — an estimated 50% — that hospital and public officials met to strategize how best to distribute the unused doses, Public Health Director Kim Saruwatari said.
If there wasn't such resistance with the annual influenza shot, I think we could more definitively say this is linked to the newness of the vaccine and questions about safety. However, knowing that so many of these workers would outright refuse a flu shot, it's really hard to say for sure what's happening, imho.

Some in the article are quoted as skipping it for safety, others saying they made it this far without a vaccine so why get one now? Go back and read the article I shared from Wired yesterday. 2021 is going to be...interesting.

And then of course this, right at the end:
It’s unclear what happens when a hospital ends up with extra doses. State guidance allows hospitals to offer the vaccine to lower-priority people if frontline workers have already been offered the vaccine.

In Tehama County, unused doses at hospitals are being distributed to the next group of people who are eligible: staff and residents of assisted living and skilled nursing facilities.

Meanwhile, the county’s health department is fielding daily phone calls about access, said Wickenheiser, the Tehama County health officer, adding, “The public is asking on a daily basis: ‘When are we going to get it?’”
Prediction - we're going to be reading about hundreds (thousands?) of doses that are destroyed nationwide over the next 60 days because they couldn't actually get them into someone after they'd been thawed.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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I think active duty military involvement is necessary for helping with vaccine administration for a little while. Activating National Guard medical units will probably pull first responders who are already fighting the pandemic from their regular jobs so that may not be the way to go. Some states won't need the additional help but others could probably use the aid, such as rural areas that have a lack of medical facilities. Also with a "teach one, do one" approach you can train up people to become vaccine administers themselves.

And we need to have a flexible yet standardized protocol for what to do with extra vaccines so they don't go to waste. I mean if you don't want the damn thing I'll gladly give you my address and I'll take the vaccine. After cajoling and educating we just gotta move on to people who want to be vaccinated.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:21 amGenerally speaking, asking people to volunteer during normal times is difficult. Asking a people to volunteer during a protracted crisis is harder. Asking a specific group of people that are already involved in dealing with this to additionally volunteer is...puzzling.

I have training and actual experience in contract tracing. I have training and actual experience in running small-scale clinics. I've been told I am not needed by the state, so I'm sitting idle. It boggles the mind.
I am at the point where it wraps around from incompetence to malevolence to bottomless incompetence. And then I consider this is what years of intentional hollowing out the government was intended to do. We were told the government was the enemy and they made it reality. It's horrifying that it worked. I hope Biden can help but he is going to be fought every step of the way.
Last edited by malchior on Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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Its too late for us! Save yourselves! Find a new planet to settle and live on. Dont repeat the mistakes of this one!
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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NBC News
Authorities in Belgium say a 27th elderly person has died in a coronavirus outbreak at a nursing home from a super-spreading St. Nick party last month but they hope the situation is now under control.

The Hemelrijck home in the northern Belgium city of Mol had organized a Dec. 4 visit from a troupe playing the beloved saint who usually spreads mirth and presents.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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The Hemelrijck home in the northern Belgium city of Mol had organized a Dec. 4 visit from a troupe playing the beloved saint who usually spreads mirth and presents.
Seems to have spread something a bit different this year.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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With Trump a no-show, Mar-a-Lago guests left to party maskless with Rudy Giuliani and Vanilla Ice
Guests who paid four-figures for tickets to President Donald Trump's annual New Year's Eve party were left to party with his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, his two adult sons and various figures from the conservative media — none of whom wore masks — after the President made a last-minute decision to ditch the event and return to Washington.
Without the President as the centerpiece, the wattage of Thursday evening's party was somewhat dimmer. Performers whose heyday came decades ago -- Vanilla Ice and Berlin -- performed from the ballroom's main stage. Guests angled for selfies with Giuliani, who was wearing a blue velvet tuxedo jacket, and Fox News host Judge Jeanine Pirro, along with personalities from the right-wing television network OANN.
Instead of their father, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump mingled among the guests with their respective significant others, Kimberly Guilfoyle and Lara Trump. Tiffany Trump also attended, though Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner were not seen.

Tables set for 10 people, with no social distancing, were clustered in the ballroom with white floral arrangements and candles encased in a sculpture meant to look like the New Year's Eve ball. The menu consisted of "Mr. Trump's Wedge Salad" -- the club has kept "Mr. Trump" instead of "President Trump" on the dish -- cheese tortellini and Wagyu beef.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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He wore blue velvet ...
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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VA Rep Ben Chafin does from COVID.

At some point, you’d think multiple deaths of their colleagues might be a wake-up call.
Last edited by Skinypupy on Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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If things continue down this path, they're going to be erecting statues to people like him for martyring himself to stick it to the libs in the name of ultimate freedumb.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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Does what?
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Skinypupy »

Might not be COVID related, but PA rep Mike Rees tested positive in early December, and passed away from an aneurism today.

Lots of research pointing to significantly higher risk of that post-COVID
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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Skinypupy wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:00 pmVA State Senator Ben Chafin does from COVID.
Fixed that for you, to avoid potential confusion.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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Defiant wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:57 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:00 pmVA State Senator Ben Chafin does from COVID.
Fixed that for you, to avoid potential confusion.
Yeah, just FYI both Senators from VA are Democrats.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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COVID starting to really thin the Repugnicans.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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raydude wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:02 am
Defiant wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:57 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:00 pmVA State Senator Ben Chafin does from COVID.
Fixed that for you, to avoid potential confusion.
Yeah, just FYI both Senators from VA are Democrats.
My bad, corrected
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Blackhawk »

I think that was the intent of the quotation marks.
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Ralph-Wiggum
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Not that I’m disagreeing with the tweet, but isn’t point 2 due to point 1? Or is there that high a false negative test for people past the early stage window?
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Max Peck »

Blackhawk wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:32 am I think that was the intent of the quotation marks.
He's not disagreeing with the other doctor, he's just expounding on why a negative test doesn't "clear" someone.
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:03 am Not that I’m disagreeing with the tweet, but isn’t point 2 due to point 1? Or is there that high a false negative test for people past the early stage window?
That was a typo that he clarified further on in the thread. And then he still managed to flub it -- it's 20% on the 8th day of infection, or day 3 after symptom onset.


Wil_Gibb wrote:Wanted to clarify a typo in the original tweet-

1) 20% of negative tests (not of all tests) are false negatives on day 8 of symptoms

2) On day 1 of symptoms 38% (THIRTY EIGHT PERCENT!!!) of negative tests could be false negatives
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:03 am Not that I’m disagreeing with the tweet, but isn’t point 2 due to point 1? Or is there that high a false negative test for people past the early stage window?
They're subtly different. If it's too early to detect, it's not a false negative. It's a negative prior to detectable levels. True false negatives are a negative test when there's detectable levels of virus.

In effect, they're both the same thing though.
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Smoove_B »

The number of cases and deaths of the China Virus is far exaggerated in the United States because of @CDCgov’s ridiculous method of determination compared to other countries, many of whom report, purposely, very inaccurately and low. “When in doubt, call it Covid.” Fake News!
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Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

Post by Blackhawk »

I can't wait until these statements he makes are just coming from someone's crazy, racist uncle.
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