Biden or Bernie? (poll)

[Holman]

Thought I would put up a running poll now that this is a two-person race.

The idea here is to pick which remaining candidate you think best (not which you think or assume will win regardless). I'd love to hear thoughts on why people think so, as well.

This poll will remain open as I imagine we'll all be wavering a bit.

[Defiant]

Sanders and Gabbard were my two least favorite choices, so the choice has become an easy one.

[Skinypupy]

If they were running against someone other than Trump, it would likely be "neither", tbh.

But since they are, it's grudgingly Biden.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, if this is my choice, Biden it is.

[Holman]

I was Warren all the way until she dropped. I am (right now) reluctant Biden.

I think Biden is a weak campaigner, and my heart is with Bernie's positions. But Bernie's baggage and extremes are bigger liabilities in the close states where it matters. In an America without the electoral college, Bernie could save us. But that's not where we live.

My wife (hugely and almost exhaustingly active for Warren since last summer) has thrown in for Bernie, so now we're a divided household.

I think the greatest outcome would be a unity ticket, probably not Biden/Sanders (which seems impossible) but Biden with someone respected by Sanders' faction. If you ignore the angry bleating of the Bernie Bros online, that might actually be Biden/Warren.

[El Guapo]

I was Warren all the way until she dropped. I am (right now) reluctant Biden.

I think Biden is a weak campaigner, and my heart is with Bernie's positions. But Bernie's baggage and extremes are bigger liabilities in the close states where it matters. In an America without the electoral college, Bernie could save us. But that's not where we live.

My wife (hugely and almost exhaustingly active for Warren since last summer) has thrown in for Bernie, so now we're a divided household.

I think the greatest outcome would be a unity ticket, probably not Biden/Sanders (which seems impossible) but Biden with someone respected by Sanders' faction. If you ignore the angry bleating of the Bernie Bros online, that might actually be Biden/Warren.

I expect the vast majority of Sanders supporters will vote for Biden in the end. Of those who are not inclined to, I'm not sure that anyone other than Sanders will do.

I would love Biden / Warren, though. Biden / Abrams seems plausible as well, though I'm not 100% sure of her standing in Bernie-World.

[El Guapo]

I voted for Biden, though I wasn't expecting the results (thus far) to be so lopsided. It's mainly because I am inclined towards center-left positions that Biden better represents, and Sanders rigid ideological tendencies and unpalatable campaign associates turn me off.

[Kraken]

If I must chose between two losers, I'll take the one whose positions are closest to mine: Sanders. Biden was just ahead of Bloomberg and Gabbard at the bottom of my list. He might change my opinion with a strong veep pick, since it's pretty clear his mind won't last thru a full term. Hell, I hope he can keep faking it thru November.

[stessier]

If they were running against someone other than Trump, it would likely be "neither", tbh.

But since they are, it's grudgingly Biden.

Same.

[YellowKing]

I'm not as dour on Biden as a lot of folks here, but then again I'm not so far removed from my conservative days so it's probably not surprising I'd pick the moderate.

My chief concern with Biden is his age and mental acuity. I can't help feel we're voting in a late-era Reagan who's a couple of train stops short of Dementiaville.

Do I think he can beat Trump? Absolutely. Biden, unlike Sanders, had some appeal to both independents and NeverTrump Republicans. He's got huge African-American support, and is well-respected and well-liked by a lot of people - even those who don't necessarily agree with is policies.

I'm not confident he'll make a spectacular president, but I'm fairly certain he'll be able to at least right the ship. I don't expect any big progressive agendas to come to fruition, but at this point I'm happy just returning to some sense of normalcy.

[Kurth]

Biden all the way, not because I’m sure he’ll beat Trump, but because I am certain Sanders won’t.

Also, Sanders is way too far left for me. I’m a centrist.

[em2nought]

Biden because I'm absolutely positive Trump will beat him, I can't even believe he made it here.

[Unagi]

If they were running against someone other than Trump, it would likely be "neither", tbh.

But since they are, it's grudgingly Biden.

Because you trust the GOP as long as trump isn’t the president?

Sorry. They are not to be trusted, regardless of who they put on the ticket.

And not voting would indeed be handing it to the unified party of hate.

[Unagi]

If they were running against someone other than Trump, it would likely be "neither", tbh.

But since they are, it's grudgingly Biden.

Same.

We’ve established you would kill your kids in order to relive the magic of Star Wars.


But serious, if Trump hasn’t shown you the true colors of the GOP, I’m not sure what it would take.

[Unagi]

Has there been any talk of a Biden/Sanders pair up?

I’d think that would be the most obvious way to get both camps to the voting booth.

[Skinypupy]

Biden because I'm absolutely positive Trump will beat him, I can't even believe he made it here.

This actually brings up something I’ve been thinking quite a bit about during this primary process. How badly do people in the middle just want to go back to some semblance of “normal”?

I’m not talking about the Trumpers here, as they’re completely bought in. In their world, all the immature behaviors (name calling, bullying, lying, belittling, ignoring rules/norms when you can benefit, etc) are displays of strength, and they view anyone whose doesn’t do those things as “weak”. They can’t imagine anyone would want a “weak” POTUS, so they think that nominating Biden assures a Trump victory.

Not talking about most of us here either, as the majority of us are committed to making a change because we see the damage being caused, regardless of who that change might be.

What about the general public who is not particularly politically active though? People are unlikely to be energized or passionate about Biden, but I would guess that he has a sort of neutral appeal to a wide segment of folks simply because they’re tired of hearing about the childish behaviors from DC every day. They’re just sick of it, in the same sort of way that I get sick of my 6-year-olds fighting with each other. At some point, you just want it to fucking stop, even if the alternative might be quiet and boring.

I’m probably not articulating this well, as it kinda sounds like “people will vote for Biden because he’s not Trump”, but it may be a bit deeper than that. I just get the sense that there’s a large chunk of people just want to go back to not really caring about what happens in DC. Biden sort of gives that to people, a generally non-threatening escape from the circus.

I would have very little expectations about a Biden presidency, other than a simple return to some sense of normalcy. That shouldn’t be enough and we should expect more, but right now, it kinda is.

[Zarathud]

Biden is the better human being who has a personal stake in beating Trump. His dying son Beau wanted him to run against Trump, but he couldn’t bear it. Trump then took apart his legacy as VP then slandered (and soon investigated) his living son Hunter.

Don’t doubt that Biden will give everything he can to defeat Trump. Yes, he’s no longer in his prime. But Trump is ineffective except for campaign rallies.

This election isn’t about policies. Bernie is 100% wrong on that. Democrats want “not Trump” rather than a revolution. Moderates want a return to normal, if they can pay attention, or vote their pocketbook.

Deplorables are going to vote Trump, but business and old people will vote Trump if he’s facing a “socialist.” Also revolutionaries are notorious for not showing up to vote unless it’s a caucus.

[Blackhawk]

This actually brings up something I’ve been thinking quite a bit about during this primary process. How badly do people in the middle just want to go back to some semblance of “normal”?

I've been thinking the same. People have had a non-stop barrage of one thing after another. They've been attacked, threatened, and live in a constant state of chaos and borerline fear. People want a break. Biden looks like 'normal.' Bernie looks like a different flavor of chaos. That impression will influence a lot of people.

[LawBeefaroni]

There is no return to normal. The damage done will have a permanent effect and half the country will always feel like outsiders from now on. Which half will vary.

[YellowKing]

I'm perfectly fine with the the MAGA half feeling like the outsiders.

[Blackhawk]

There is no return to normal. The damage done will have a permanent effect and half the country will always feel like outsiders from now on. Which half will vary.

I don't disagree*. But I used the word 'impression.' That factor appeals to peoples emotions, not a rational understanding of the moving pieces. And a lot of people vote their emotions and impressions. For instance, how many people who will automatically vote against a 'socialist' are doing so out of a rational understanding of what that means?

*Permanent effect, yes, but we can come back. The divide is less than the Civil War. It may take decades, and there will certainly be impact for the foreseeable future, but we can come back. Of course, that doesn't mean we will choose to come back.

[Zarathud]

Biden at least knows how to pass his legislative “back to normal” agenda even if some Republican support is necessary. He has said he’ll offer an olive branch to work with any remaining moderate Republicans.

If Moscow Mitch loses his Senate Majority, Biden can get shit done. If Biden has to deal with Moscow Mitch, he has institutional knowledge of how the Senate works so there’s a chance to win there too.

[Skinypupy]

There is no return to normal. The damage done will have a permanent effect and half the country will always feel like outsiders from now on. Which half will vary.

Maybe “normal” isn’t the right word then.

What I think someone like Biden can bring is at least an incremental reduction of the constant state of self-inflicted chaos that we’re in now.

That’s better than nothing.

[Skinypupy]

I'm perfectly fine with the the MAGA half feeling like the outsiders.

They ain’t half, no matter how many times they claim they are.

[Tao]

I would begrudgingly choose Biden. Sanders ideology, I believe, frightens too many people and the majority of those are people with either money or power (or both). Sanders also reminds me of a friend of mine who as an Atheist complains about the loud, obnoxious, closed minded Christians that proselytize by being a loud, obnoxious, closed minded Atheist trying to proselytize. I also do not believe Sanders will be effective working with Congress, my opinion is he is too intractable, not to the Trumpian levels but enough to make it a poor choice.

While a Biden/Warren ticket is the first thing to come to my mind I would really love to see Buttigeig as the VP. I understand he is somewhat inexperienced but I think he has a lot of potential and could cut his teeth as the VP. I also am heavily bothered by the age factor for both Biden and Sanders and for Warren as well. While 38 might be a bit young, I am not thrilled with the prospect of an Octogenarian in the White House.

[Kraken]

I also am heavily bothered by the age factor for both Biden and Sanders and for Warren as well. While 38 might be a bit young, I am not thrilled with the prospect of an Octogenarian in the White House.

Warren can run again in 2028 and still be younger than either Sanders or Biden are now, if we're still staging elections then.

Yes, I'm still having trouble letting go of Warren. One pundit wrote that by withholding her endorsement for the eventual nominee, she preserves more influence over that person's policy agenda (especially if it's Biden, who doesn't have one). Her candidacy might be dead, but all those plans she wrote are not, and her endorsement is valuable.

[$iljanus]

Biden but only grudgingly. There's good reason why people are pissed off and I'm not willing to settle for going back to the the way things used to be if it only gives lip service to addressing the issues that made the progressive platform so attractive to many people.

I'll miss you, Warren. Keep fighting the good fight from the senate!

[Pyperkub]

I think Bernie will be ineffective as a President. I think Biden will give up too much, but still get more accomplished.

[Holman]

Simply by representing a return to normalcy (even if that's really impossible), Biden has the best chance of taking Independents away from Trump.

A Bernie candidacy raises the ideological stakes and alienates centrists in ways that make (for instance) taking the senate much more difficult. Plus, the baggage is real. Bernie's praise for Castro has probably already cost him Florida, for instance.

Biden/Bernie won't happen because I feel sure that the Dems are committed to having a woman on the ticket. (Trump will too, if he can think of a way to dump Pence for Haley.)

[stessier]

If they were running against someone other than Trump, it would likely be "neither", tbh.

But since they are, it's grudgingly Biden.

Same.

We’ve established you would kill your kids in order to relive the magic of Star Wars.


But serious, if Trump hasn’t shown you the true colors of the GOP, I’m not sure what it would take.

I didn't say I'd vote GOP.

[Blackhawk]

(Trump will too, if he can think of a way to dump Pence for Haley.)

Uh-uh. Nope. We don't want him back.

[Unagi]

If they were running against someone other than Trump, it would likely be "neither", tbh.

But since they are, it's grudgingly Biden.

Same.

We’ve established you would kill your kids in order to relive the magic of Star Wars.


But serious, if Trump hasn’t shown you the true colors of the GOP, I’m not sure what it would take.

I didn't say I'd vote GOP.

You said you wouldn’t vote (for that) Democrat. (If it wasn’t against Trump)

That’s equivalent to voting GOP.
And I think this year has certain shown us what their motivations are.

[stessier]

If they were running against someone other than Trump, it would likely be "neither", tbh.

But since they are, it's grudgingly Biden.

Same.

We’ve established you would kill your kids in order to relive the magic of Star Wars.


But serious, if Trump hasn’t shown you the true colors of the GOP, I’m not sure what it would take.

I didn't say I'd vote GOP.

You said you wouldn’t vote (for that) Democrat. (If it wasn’t against Trump)

That’s equivalent to voting GOP.

I don't agree that holds in all situations.

[Unagi]

It holds in every situation


Describe a situation that’s remotely close to our reality where it doesn’t

[Montag]

If they cared for the republic, better choices would be offered. Sanders is just as much as a populist candidate as Trump was. Trump is a clinical narcissist and Sanders is a true believer. Practically all of what Bernie is spouting for cannot be achieved even with a reasonable congress. Rapid flip flops are not how our government can or should work. It must be in an incremental way. We need a damped system with mild oscillations between the left and the right that will converge on a solution. We have an undamped divergent system that is shaking itself apart.

Right now Biden is a Schrödinger's cat with one serious gaff away of giving the election away. 2016 was an election for the Democrats to lose and they found away. By God, Democrats are at it again.

I view myself a libertarian / conservative who has long since looked upon the "Republican" party with scorn. Of the two, I would take Biden and they better pick a solid VP candidate to run with him to get a chance of my vote or I will piss in the wind again for whatever sorry Libertarian candidate is put up. Sadly, I would give Trump greater than even odds to get re-elected.

[Holman]

If they cared for the republic, better choices would be offered.

10 points off for passive voice. Who offers these choices?

Candidates offer themselves, obviously, and it's up to voters to decide who makes it forward.

[Jaymon]

I would personally prefer Sanders to Biden, but I know thats not whats best. Biden is the return to normal, at least as normal as we can get. Sorry Bernie bros, but the dems are going to send Biden to the big show, not Sanders.

[Montag]

If they cared for the republic, better choices would be offered.

10 points off for passive voice. Who offers these choices?

Candidates offer themselves, obviously, and it's up to voters to decide who makes it forward.

in a closed primary state, "they" would be DNC and RNC. I have no illusions that a 3rd party has any chance in the foreseeable future.

[Jaymann]

When was the passive voice used?

[Holman]

When was the passive voice used?

"choices would be offered."