Fundraising for 2020/2021: Currently at $1580. Fundraising has begun, see the global post for options. Paypal Donation Links US dollars CDN Dollars

The Viral Economy

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Honestly it doesn't bail him out with anyone but his base who already loves him. This number is so far off the economic estimates that many are simply discounting it. Like it is off by 7.5M in the wrong direction.

In the meantime, one of my guesses has some uncertainty squeezed out. They are almost certainly wrong and it'll hurt him in the election. I don't know the math on the trade off between acting and not politically but acting was the right thing to do for Americans. We'll see if this bet blows up in their faces. With guys like Navarro in the loop they almost certainly will. He is incredibly off the mark. This isn't a structural process. It is insane to even think this is anywhere near structural.


User avatar
RunningMn9
Posts: 23246
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:55 pm
Location: The Sword Coast
Contact:

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by RunningMn9 »

The weekly jobless claims numbers are still at 2 million new claims per week. How did we add 2.5 million jobs if 1.9 million people filed for unemployment last week. And 2+ million people the week before that, etc? Something doesn’t make sense.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

RunningMn9 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:51 pm
The weekly jobless claims numbers are still at 2 million new claims per week. How did we add 2.5 million jobs if 1.9 million people filed for unemployment last week. And 2+ million people the week before that, etc? Something doesn’t make sense.
I've been listening for explanations and anyone outside Trump fantasyland says this stuff isn't straight forward and the story isn't all that rosy. The expectation was -5M jobs. It came in +2.5M so that is a big miss obviously. The labor department which feeds info into BLS says they've had persistent issues characterizing furloughed workers as employed when they're really just people sitting around with health benefits. The unemployment rate would have been 2 or 3 points higher had they called them unemployed. The labor department today gave the same guidance.

So the headline number...isn't all that useful without also contextualizing all the many caveats. Again, they don't know how to treat furloughed workers. They don't include people who have had persistent issues filing for UI in their home state (though this problem is going away). There are substitution effects where people picked up gig work so its maybe a job but its more like temp work. There are a lot of caveats which is why I'd say we need to see what happens month over month and expect adjustments. That's why I don't expect this to help Trump like everyone thinks unless he convinces them they are better off than they actually are. Or he needs to convince people who aren't impacted. That is possible but the reality is the economy is still a complete mess and there should be no expectation of a rocket rebound.

malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

BLS admits error. Unemployment rate approximately 16.3% versus the 13.3% number dropped today. This reflects a fix of a classification error mentioned previously.

FWIW - the guy who used to run BLS sees a major error and thinks that unemployment is closer to the 20% level economists predicted. Again the charitable and most likely explanation is that data is not flowing like it should because the states are having a hard time reporting accurate data themselves.




Drazzil
Posts: 3614
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Drazzil »

It's going to keep getting worse till the whole economic system comes down. Drumph goosed the stock market abd the corps with literally TONS of money. But as you said money squandered at the top does NOT create demand. Think things (and protests) are bad now? Wait till the second wave of pandemic hits when states get serious about opening back up, and the morotorium on evictions ends writ large and 20% (or more) of ppl no longer has a place to live. This is how revolutions happen.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 42782
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

With every passing day, I legitimately understand guillotines more and more:
At least four members of Congress have reaped benefits in some way from the half-trillion-dollar small-business loan program they helped create.

And no one knows how many more there could be.

It’s a bipartisan group of lawmakers who have acknowledged close ties to companies that have received loans from the program — businesses that are either run by their families or employ their spouse as a senior executive.

Republicans on the list include Rep. Roger Williams of Texas, a wealthy businessman who owns auto dealerships, body shops and car washes, and Rep. Vicky Hartzler of Missouri, whose family owns multiple farms and equipment suppliers across the Midwest. The Democrats count Rep. Susie Lee of Nevada, whose husband is CEO of a regional casino developer, and Rep. Debbie Mucarsel Powell of Florida, whose husband is an executive at a restaurant chain that has since returned the loan.

And there are almost certainly more, according to aides and lawmakers.
Of note:
While it is not illegal for lawmakers to apply for or accept the money, it has raised new questions about lawmakers’ potential conflicts of interest as they craft the next coronavirus rescue package as well as the administration’s fierce secrecy of the $670 billion program.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49008
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Rabbit hole if you want one:

Cross River Bank.
The odd thing about those Fed reimbursements is that a stunning $5.3 billion in reimbursements, or 9 percent of the $57 reimbursed by the Fed, have gone to a tiny New Jersey bank, Cross River Bank. According to the SBA, as of May 30, there were 5,454 lenders that had made loans in the PPP program. Cross River Bank is just one of those 5,454 lenders and yet it received 9 percent of the Fed’s reimbursements. How does that make any sense?

Wells Fargo has approximately 250,000 employees. According to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) it has 5,444 branches in 40 states in the U.S. The FDIC also reports that the bank holds $1.4 trillion in deposits. The bank is 168 years old. According to a statement from Wells Fargo on Monday to CNBC, it has made $10.2 billion in Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans. That’s in line with what other large banks have done in the PPP program. The Fed’s transaction data for its PPP reimbursements do not show any PPP reimbursements to Wells Fargo.

According to the FDIC, Cross River Bank has only one branch office and has been around for just 12 years. The $5.3 billion that the Fed has reimbursed to Cross River Bank is more than twice its total assets of $2.5 billion as of March 30. Cross River Bank has made more than 50 percent of the dollar amount that Wells Fargo has made in PPP loans but it has only 250 employees rather than the 250,000 employees working for Wells Fargo to review and process these PPP loans.

...

“Cross River is not a typical community bank. There are no tellers here, or ATMs or safe deposit boxes. Instead there are 175 bank staffers and traders stuffed elbow to jowl into about 23,000 square feet, peering into hundreds of computer monitors—often stacked three per desk. There are startup touches—a kitchenette stocked with LaCroix sparkling water, gourmet coffee and a game room.

“Cross River is on a lending tear. It is underwriting loans at the rate of more than $1 billion a month—some $30 billion worth in just nine years. But unlike in banks of yesteryear, virtually all Cross River’s lending officers aren’t human beings. They are apps. Cross River’s loans originate mostly from 15 or so buzzy venture-capital-backed financial technology startups, so-called fintechs, that go by names like Affirm, Best Egg, Upgrade, Upstart and LendingUSA. The fintechs provide the customers; Cross River provides the licenses and infrastructure. It holds 10% to 20% of each loan it issues, and the massive volume of fintech loans has propelled Cross River to $2 billion in assets, up from $100 million a decade ago.”

Elsewhere:
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Marnie Behan got a surprising message last month from Ohio’s Department of Job and Family Services about her ongoing unemployment payments. Instead of sending her next unemployment payment, they said she needed to pay the state back.

The bill was almost $3,000. She had 45 days to repay the money, or the case would be sent to the Ohio Attorney General.

...


The department didn’t accuse Behan of lying on her application. The notice officially said it was “non-fraud.” In fact, after the governor ordered all restaurants to close and she lost her job at Buffalo Wild Wings, she had spent weeks arguing to the department that she qualified for payments.

The department had initially ruled that the amount of money she made at the restaurant was too little to qualify for unemployment. She appealed, arguing that if they only counted the weeks she was employed, instead of dividing her income over the whole year, she met the threshold. Finally, the department came around to her way of thinking. She received an approval notice and started getting weekly payments.

It seemed now they had changed their minds.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 23521
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Holman »

It'll take two terms just to start to get the bottom of this administration's incompetence and grifting.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 42782
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

Prepare.

Brace yourself. The wave of evictions and foreclosures in next 2 months will be unlike anything America has experienced since the Great Depression. And unless Congress extends extra unemployment benefits beyond July 31, we’re also going to have unparalleled hunger.

malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Hunger is the historical gate between civilization and widespread rioting and violence. And Trump has a bunch of jamokes ready to go.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 36487
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Kraken »

I parked most of the money in my IRA's growth funds in cash last week. Bonds and target-date funds are still vulnerable, but about 1/3 of our retirement funds are sitting on the sidelines for now. Sooner or later, Wall Street's going to catch up to Main Street.

malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

The Economist. It's paywalled but the tldr; is that the US economy had been restructuring itself for remote work and 'more flexibility prior' to the pandemic and capital is flowing in the direction it already was faster. More investment in remote work, telemedicine, straight to your front door logistics, etc. The market is indicating that many pandemic layoffs will become permanent. Additionally, the Governments in Europe preserved jobs over flexibility. Whereas the US said YOLO and largely allowed the market to decide. We just gave workers a slightly softer landing; then said get out there and 'Work! Hope you don't die'. Which is dogmatically our way so not a huge surprise. If the market is right, the future will be remote work and the 'gig economy'.
The Economist wrote:As covid-19 spread around the world, many governments prescribed the economic equivalent of a medically induced coma. Halting the transmission of the disease meant shutting down economic activity. But to restore economies to health quickly, connections between workers and firms needed to be maintained, so that activity could pick up from where it had left off. It seems increasingly clear, though, that not everything will return to normal once covid-19 is eventually beaten. As economies adjust, there is likely to be a substantial reallocation of people and resources.

Flexible economies that can nimbly reallocate resources ought to have an easier time weathering shocks and unlocking the productivity-boosting benefits of new technologies and business models. As the pandemic spread it induced a sudden, violent shock across the economy. While millions of workers and machines were idled, demand for some skills and products soared. Much of this is almost certain to prove temporary. The production of ventilators rose sharply in the first half of 2020, but might eventually fall back to, or below, pre-pandemic levels, as hospitals find they have more than they need in normal times. Other shifts are likely to persist. In March and April Amazon hired 175,000 workers to manage a surge in online shopping. Firms offering products to facilitate telemedicine and online learning also took on scores of new employees. Many of these will stay, just as many pandemic-linked lay-offs will become permanent.

In a paper published in May Jose Maria Barrero of the Instituto Tecnológico Autónomo de México, Nicholas Bloom of Stanford University and Steven Davis of the University of Chicago analysed a monthly survey of business uncertainty, which assesses firms’ expectations for sales, hiring and investment over the next year. The authors found a surge in expected job reallocation from January to April, and conclude that 42% of lay-offs linked to the pandemic are likely to prove permanent. Similarly, recent analysis produced by Adam Ozimek, the chief economist at Upwork, an online labour exchange, suggests that the shift to remote work prompted by covid-19 will leave a lasting impression. Of the hiring managers surveyed by Upwork, 62% say their workforce will be more remote than before the pandemic.

...

If in fact covid-19 is engineering structural economic change, this complicates the already difficult decision of whether or not to keep struggling companies and jobs afloat. Compared with the rest of the rich world, America appears to have done less to freeze its economy in place. The number of corporate filings for bankruptcy in March and April was 22% above that in the same period in 2019; by contrast, bankruptcy filings in Germany were no higher. Unlike other rich countries, America has prioritised temporarily increasing the generosity of unemployment benefits (until the end of July) over using government support to help prevent job losses in the first place. Unemployment has consequently risen much more than it has in Europe.

The choice ahead is tricky. Messrs Barrero, Bloom and Davis warn that generous support could prove counterproductive, since it might discourage workers from seeking new jobs in expanding sectors. But withdraw stimulus too soon and the economy could remain mired in a slump, retarding the growth of frontier industries. Keep it going for just long enough, though, and the decision to allow the pandemic to destroy some jobs and companies, the better to let more robust and productive ones rise in their place, might one day be seen as remarkably fortuitous.

malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

FWIW - I see saw this in Europe all the time when I used to be allowed to travel there. The Hague/Amsterdam/Rotterdam/Brugges/etc. all have narrower streets with this sort of set up.


User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 66134
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNBC
Another batch of one-time stimulus checks could be coming. But this time, far fewer Americans could get paid.

President Donald Trump has made it clear that he wants to include another batch of checks in the next coronavirus legislation.

But Senate Republicans have been slow to warm to the idea. One reason: the high cost of cutting millions of checks to Americans.

Now, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., is considering a compromise: disbursing funds to people making $40,000 or less a year.

The new threshold would dramatically reduce the number of Americans eligible for the checks. That would help the GOP keep the new spending package to about $1 trillion.

Congress is poised to consider the issue when it returns later this month. At that time, it will also consider whether or not to continue giving unemployed Americans an additional $600 per week in unemployment benefits.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 36487
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Kraken »

As much as I could put some free money to good use, I'm fine with limiting it to people who actually need it...if you don't give any to trump's toadies, either.

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 63095
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

Kraken wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:07 pm
As much as I could put some free money to good use, I'm fine with limiting it to people who actually need it...if you don't give any to trump's toadies, either.
^^^^^
That there.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 66134
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Isgrimnur »

FHFA
6/17/2020

​​​​​​Washington, D.C. – Today, to help borrowers and renters who are at risk of losing their home due to the coronavirus national emergency, the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) announced that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (the Enterprises) will extend their single-family moratorium on foreclosures and evictions until at least August 31, 2020. The foreclosure moratorium applies to Enterprise-backed, single-family mortgages only. The current moratorium was set to expire on June 30th.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49008
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

That'll really take the pressure off. "You get one more month, maybe you'll be evicted. Maybe not. Back rent will still be due. You'll still be out of a job, too. You're welcome!"
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 23521
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Holman »

Maybe we could be invaded by European social democracies?

I'm pretty sure we would greet them as liberators.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
Little Raven
Posts: 7394
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:26 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Little Raven »

Holman wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:57 pm
Maybe we could be invaded by European social democracies?
Well, if France, Germany, and the UK were all to team up, they could manage to put together....not quite 1/3 of our defense spending. That's the problem with going all social-democracy. You quickly lose the ability to exert global power.

We're on our own for this one.
/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 23521
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Holman »

Little Raven wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:06 pm
Holman wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:57 pm
Maybe we could be invaded by European social democracies?
Well, if France, Germany, and the UK were all to team up, they could manage to put together....not quite 1/3 of our defense spending. That's the problem with going all social-democracy. You quickly lose the ability to exert global power.

We're on our own for this one.
Armies have turned coat before. It's always a question of whom they really serve.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »


User avatar
Holman
Posts: 23521
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Holman »

The WH's response to job losses is (under heiress Ivanka's branding) to tell people to "Find Something New."



This is beyond parody.

It's literally telling unemployed people to "get a job."
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 14270
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Zarathud »

We made a website. Problem solved!

Weak.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon

User avatar
Ralph-Wiggum
Posts: 16196
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:51 am

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Holman wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:44 pm
The WH's response to job losses is (under heiress Ivanka's branding) to tell people to "Find Something New."
Except for coal workers: they not allowed to find something new.

User avatar
$iljanus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11797
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
Location: New England...or under your bed

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by $iljanus »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Holman wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:44 pm
The WH's response to job losses is (under heiress Ivanka's branding) to tell people to "Find Something New."
Except for coal workers: they not allowed to find something new.
Or the meat packers and chicken processors. Donald needs unimpeded access to his favorite fast foods.
tl;dr

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 63095
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

Zarathud wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:11 am
We made a website. Problem solved!

Weak.
While I shouldn't bash it with no knowledge of the content, that's my first instinct, my second instinct is who is "our", my third is, is she the spokesperson? If so, why would you choose the granddaughter of a slum lord and daughter of the branded bankrupt, legally toxic, and for profit education center and a mega wealthy nepotist who also has no history civil work as the spokesperson for finding a new career? Lastly, it reminds me of the masses of ads trying to make money off your patronage without actually bringing anything to the table. I half expected her to proclaim, "I was blown away by path 7." And finally lastly, I dunno if it's a twitter thing but I'm all JeffV when it comes to clicking on a link where they hyperlink says you are going one place but the URL takes you to another.

User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33302
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Remus West »

The concept of helping people find potential work is wonderful. The delivery and packaging ruins it due to the people in charge. Honestly though I don't find it too different from Obama trying to help coal miners get training for different jobs as we tried to phase out coal. It is simply the distrust of anything tRump might have his fingers in that makes me wonder how he is making a profit from it.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49008
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Remus West wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:12 am
The concept of helping people find potential work is wonderful. The delivery and packaging ruins it due to the people in charge. Honestly though I don't find it too different from Obama trying to help coal miners get training for different jobs as we tried to phase out coal. It is simply the distrust of anything tRump might have his fingers in that makes me wonder how he is making a profit from it.
Was on a zoom call last night with our State Rep and State Senator and they were promoting the Illinois Clean Energy Jobs Act..

I haven't gotten too deep into it but it sounds like an actual program with a plan. Unlike the "let them eat cake" bullshit coming out of Ivanka's platitude hole.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
stessier
Posts: 25867
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by stessier »

I went to a convenience store today and they had a sign up asking for exact change as there is a nationwide shortage of coins. This is the first I've heard of that - the sign was dated earlier this month, so it's not like they just put it up today. Did I miss something?
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 66134
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Isgrimnur »


User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 49008
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies
LawBeefaroni OO’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LawBeefaroni »

stessier wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:22 am
I went to a convenience store today and they had a sign up asking for exact change as there is a nationwide shortage of coins. This is the first I've heard of that - the sign was dated earlier this month, so it's not like they just put it up today. Did I miss something?
As someone who prefers to pay with cash, I would think it would be the opposite. Everyone pays in plastic and every place wants plastic. I still have the same wad of cash in my wallet that I had in March Normally that would last a week, max. I would think that any shortage of coins is probably due to lack of demand for them.


But news tells me otherwise. Due to lack of institutional coin deposits and lowered production due to COVID, there is apparently a shortage. Who knew?
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Any help to find work is needed but we are still mired in a systemic problem. Fortune has an interesting piece of current indicators. The one that jumped out at me is that every week the economy still sees new claims for unempployment at a rate of 1.3 M / week. To put that in perspective, the weekly rate was 6 times lower pre-pandemic.

Edit: And that coin shortage...yeah that is a surprise but the explanation makes some sense.

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 63095
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by LordMortis »

I was confused. I was like aren't fewer people paying with cash? Shouldn't that make coins easier to supply?

Because of coronavirus-related shutdowns, fewer coins are circulating throughout the economy, leaving stores short on nickels and dimes and seeking
alternate solutions.
It doesn't make sense to me but you are small.
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:28 am
As someone who prefers to pay with cash, I would think it would be the opposite. Everyone pays in plastic and every place wants plastic. I still have the same wad of cash in my wallet that I had in March Normally that would last a week, max. I would think that any shortage of coins is probably due to lack of demand for them.
+1 I've spent a total of $21 from my wallet since early March.

User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 17001
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish
coopasonic’s avatar
Loading…

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by coopasonic »

I've probably got around $150 in random coinage in a big jar on my desk. I'll let it go for $200! The coins are also generally older errr vintage as cash has been dead for a while.
-Coop

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 23521
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Holman »

Lots of people at the lower end of the economic spectrum work in cash because it feels more secure and manageable to them. They've been screwed by fees and required minimums and unexpected charges enough to avoid using their cards when possible. Cash for them is smart economics.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

Holman wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:35 pm
Lots of people at the lower end of the economic spectrum work in cash because it feels more secure and manageable to them. They've been screwed by fees and required minimums and unexpected charges enough to avoid using their cards when possible. Cash for them is smart economics.
Bank accounts are also sometimes hard to get depending on folks circumstances.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 42782
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Smoove_B »

In case you're wondering what major retailers are expecting by Thanksgiving:
Walmart on Tuesday said it plans to keep all its stores closed on Thanksgiving Day.

The closures, affecting both Walmart and Sam's Club stores, mark a huge departure from Walmart's typical tradition of kicking off Black Friday in-store doorbuster sales on the Thanksgiving holiday, which falls on Nov. 26 this year.

"We know this has been a trying year, and our associates have stepped up. We hope they will enjoy a special Thanksgiving Day at home with their loved ones," John Furner, president and CEO of Walmart US, said in a statement. "We are certainly thankful to our people for all of their efforts."
Sad that it took a pandemic, but I guess its progress.

User avatar
Octavious
Posts: 17207
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:50 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by Octavious »

I'm sure it's not because they don't think they will make a lot of money. I totally the reward part. :lol:
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

Shameless plug for my website: www.nettphoto.com

malchior
Posts: 12199
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Viral Economy

Post by malchior »

It's probably good business & good policy at work. Black Friday sales depend on volume...and they've done very well this year already. They'll just push as much of it online as possible.

Post Reply